Fascism

[Divine Wind]

You mean besides executing them?

Moving the goalposts. A true admission you lost

Another cracked post. Sorry, dude, there was no goalpost moving. You asked for proof Hitler hated socialists and it was provided. Why are you running from the facts?

 

[kaz]

Sure capitalism can occur in fascism/socialism. However, it's not real capitalism, it's only what government decides to allow. That your mother lets you in the yard doesn't mean you were free to go in the yard at your own discression

Capitalism exists in degrees - from totally unfettered (which I think does not exist anywhere but in theory now) to almost completely state controlled. Can we agree on that?

No...complete state control means capitalism does not exist.

EXACTLY.

Why is that so hard to understand.

Capitalism means LIBERTY FREEDOM


.

Really? To some. To others it's sweatshops.

Capitalism needs some regulation.

Absolutely! Unregulated capitalism is every bit as bad as out of control socialism! Well, maybe not quite as bad... out of control socialism is capable of mass murder on a scale that can only be dreamed of by the worst capitalist asshole, but they would certainly try. And that is the problem.

When she says "out of control capitalism" she is arguing against corporatism, which is a form of socialism. It's central planning where corporations control government. Central planning is socialism Capitalism is when government controls no one, that isn't what she's arguing against, she's arguing against her own socialist views

 

[kaz]

Sure capitalism can occur in fascism/socialism. However, it's not real capitalism, it's only what government decides to allow. That your mother lets you in the yard doesn't mean you were free to go in the yard at your own discression

Capitalism exists in degrees - from totally unfettered (which I think does not exist anywhere but in theory now) to almost completely state controlled. Can we agree on that?

No...complete state control means capitalism does not exist.

EXACTLY.

Why is that so hard to understand.

Capitalism means LIBERTY FREEDOM


.

Really? To some. To others it's sweatshops.

Capitalism needs some regulation.

To them, it is work by their choice...

In fascism, you can quit a job and starve or get another job...

In communism you can never quit a job.....

Fascism is a form of socialism. And while in theory you could do what you say, no fascist government has ever let you do that on a meaningful basis

 

[kaz]

Capitalism exists in degrees - from totally unfettered (which I think does not exist anywhere but in theory now) to almost completely state controlled. Can we agree on that?

No...complete state control means capitalism does not exist.

EXACTLY.

Why is that so hard to understand.

Capitalism means LIBERTY FREEDOM


.

Really? To some. To others it's sweatshops.

Capitalism needs some regulation.

To them, it is work by their choice...

In fascism, you can quit a job and starve or get another job...

In communism you can never quit a job.....

What kind of choice did they have in the old mining structure where they were paid in script that could only be used in the highly inflated company stores, homes owned by the companies, and the miners kept in debt and forbidden from working elsewhere or they and their families would be evicted? Eh...ya, lots of choice in Appalachia then.

Capitalism has it's faults too. Communism as a social and economic system beyond small religious communities is a failure.

They had the choice to leave the "old mining structure" and go somewhere else they liked the rules better. Capitalism doesn't mean I have to give you want you want. That's why you like socialism, then you can run to government to use their guns to force me to give you what you want

 

[kaz]

What happens when a coyote encounters a feral dog? They fight. Why do they fight? Because they are both seeking the same resources. Namely food. Nazi Germany was the lion, and the Soviet Union was the tiger. Both fighting for the same real estate, both talking about the collective "will of the people" both espousing similar propaganda, the Nazi's were fighting for the "fatherland" and the Soviets were fighting for "mother Russia". Do you see a pattern here?

I see the pattern you're talking about but - I not sure I agree with your analysis. Both right and left extreme ideologies go towards authoritarianism/totalitarianism if you look at it in a 4 square model with left/right authoritarian/liberty axis.

Fascist states specifically opposed socialist/marxist ideology and the idea of a classless state was opposed by fascists who believed in a strict and natural social order. That produces very different propoganda. The propoganda the fascists fed their people which united them - was opposition to communism (the so called "creeping sharia" of that era) - fear unites and makes excellant propoganda. The Soviets did the same with their anti-western propoganda and added a bit of the Russian persecution complex (everyone is out to get us) for flavor.

How Fascism Works

• Survival of the fittest: Some fascist philosophers were influenced by the writings of Charles Darwin and his theory of natural selection. In the context of fascism, the State is only as powerful as its ability to wage wars and win them. The State is thereby selected for survival due to its strength and dominance. Peace is viewed as weakness, aggression as strength. Strength is the ultimate good and ensures the survival of the State.
• Strict social order: Fascism maintains a strict class structure. In this way, it's the antithesis of communism, which abolishes class distinctions. Fascism believes that clearly divided classes are necessary to avoid any hint of chaos, which is a threat to the State. The State's power depends on the maintenance of a class system in which every person has a definite, unchangeable, specific role in glorifying the state. It's an absolute rejection of humanism and democracy.
• Authoritarian leadership: The State's interests require a single, charismatic leader with absolute authority. This is the concept of Führerprinzip, "the leadership principle" in German -- that it's necessary to have an all-powerful, heroic leader to maintain the unity and unquestioning submission required by the fascist State. This leader often becomes a symbol of the State.

Again, name the real differences between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Did you read what I wrote? I'm referring to Hitler and Stalin.

Yes, you are saying Hitler is fascist and Stalin is socialist. Fascism is the opposite of socialism. And you concede there is no real difference between them. As bripat observed, you are full of shit and making it up as you go.

Fascism is central economic planning, which is socialism. There are minor tweaks between socialist systems, but they all boil down to the same thing as you just admitted

 

[kaz]

What happens when a coyote encounters a feral dog? They fight. Why do they fight? Because they are both seeking the same resources. Namely food. Nazi Germany was the lion, and the Soviet Union was the tiger. Both fighting for the same real estate, both talking about the collective "will of the people" both espousing similar propaganda, the Nazi's were fighting for the "fatherland" and the Soviets were fighting for "mother Russia". Do you see a pattern here?

I see the pattern you're talking about but - I not sure I agree with your analysis. Both right and left extreme ideologies go towards authoritarianism/totalitarianism if you look at it in a 4 square model with left/right authoritarian/liberty axis.

Fascist states specifically opposed socialist/marxist ideology and the idea of a classless state was opposed by fascists who believed in a strict and natural social order. That produces very different propoganda. The propoganda the fascists fed their people which united them - was opposition to communism (the so called "creeping sharia" of that era) - fear unites and makes excellant propoganda. The Soviets did the same with their anti-western propoganda and added a bit of the Russian persecution complex (everyone is out to get us) for flavor.

How Fascism Works

• Survival of the fittest: Some fascist philosophers were influenced by the writings of Charles Darwin and his theory of natural selection. In the context of fascism, the State is only as powerful as its ability to wage wars and win them. The State is thereby selected for survival due to its strength and dominance. Peace is viewed as weakness, aggression as strength. Strength is the ultimate good and ensures the survival of the State.
• Strict social order: Fascism maintains a strict class structure. In this way, it's the antithesis of communism, which abolishes class distinctions. Fascism believes that clearly divided classes are necessary to avoid any hint of chaos, which is a threat to the State. The State's power depends on the maintenance of a class system in which every person has a definite, unchangeable, specific role in glorifying the state. It's an absolute rejection of humanism and democracy.
• Authoritarian leadership: The State's interests require a single, charismatic leader with absolute authority. This is the concept of Führerprinzip, "the leadership principle" in German -- that it's necessary to have an all-powerful, heroic leader to maintain the unity and unquestioning submission required by the fascist State. This leader often becomes a symbol of the State.

Again, name the real differences between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

Economically, there is no difference between Stalinism, Nazism, Democratic Socialism, the Democrat party and any other socialist system. They are all economies absolutely controlled by the State for the interest of the State

 

[kaz]

Again, name the real differences between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

However,,you've been educated here that that is incorrect.....

Afraid not. Open your mind and learn something new

Socialism is socialism. There is nothing new in that. What is new is your spin, which you can't even coherently describe. Stalinism isn't socialism cus. The same reason you think fascism isn't socialism. It doesn't fit the Democrat agenda. You're saying nothing

 

[kaz]

Again, name the real differences between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

Here is what you just said:

1. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both
2. Fascism is widely regarded as right wing.

You posted two sentences in sequence that contradict other. That's pretty much the story of this whole thread: one failed attempt at committing logic after another.

How do they contradict each other?
Nazism.
Fascism.

I've linked to sources already so I'm not going to repeat that.

Your consistent inability to put your argument in your own words and replacement of that with endless links and quotes shows you don't understand what you are saying. So why would we understand what you are saying if you don't?

 

[Coyote]

I see the pattern you're talking about but - I not sure I agree with your analysis. Both right and left extreme ideologies go towards authoritarianism/totalitarianism if you look at it in a 4 square model with left/right authoritarian/liberty axis.

Fascist states specifically opposed socialist/marxist ideology and the idea of a classless state was opposed by fascists who believed in a strict and natural social order. That produces very different propoganda. The propoganda the fascists fed their people which united them - was opposition to communism (the so called "creeping sharia" of that era) - fear unites and makes excellant propoganda. The Soviets did the same with their anti-western propoganda and added a bit of the Russian persecution complex (everyone is out to get us) for flavor.

How Fascism Works

• Survival of the fittest: Some fascist philosophers were influenced by the writings of Charles Darwin and his theory of natural selection. In the context of fascism, the State is only as powerful as its ability to wage wars and win them. The State is thereby selected for survival due to its strength and dominance. Peace is viewed as weakness, aggression as strength. Strength is the ultimate good and ensures the survival of the State.
• Strict social order: Fascism maintains a strict class structure. In this way, it's the antithesis of communism, which abolishes class distinctions. Fascism believes that clearly divided classes are necessary to avoid any hint of chaos, which is a threat to the State. The State's power depends on the maintenance of a class system in which every person has a definite, unchangeable, specific role in glorifying the state. It's an absolute rejection of humanism and democracy.
• Authoritarian leadership: The State's interests require a single, charismatic leader with absolute authority. This is the concept of Führerprinzip, "the leadership principle" in German -- that it's necessary to have an all-powerful, heroic leader to maintain the unity and unquestioning submission required by the fascist State. This leader often becomes a symbol of the State.

Again, name the real differences between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Did you read what I wrote? I'm referring to Hitler and Stalin.

Yes, you are saying Hitler is fascist and Stalin is socialist. Fascism is the opposite of socialism. And you concede there is no real difference between them. As bripat observed, you are full of shit and making it up as you go.

Fascism is central economic planning, which is socialism. There are minor tweaks between socialist systems, but they all boil down to the same thing as you just admitted

No. What I said there is there is little difference in the end result between Stalin and Hitler due to the authoritarian/totalitarian nature of their regimes.

Socialism does not allow for private property rights, fascism does. Socialism calls for worker or state ownership of means of production. Fascism does not though it regulates it. That's a key difference not a "minor tweak". Your logic would call any government regulation of the private sector "socialism".

 

[Coyote]

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

However,,you've been educated here that that is incorrect.....

Afraid not. Open your mind and learn something new

Socialism is socialism. There is nothing new in that. What is new is your spin, which you can't even coherently describe. Stalinism isn't socialism cus. The same reason you think fascism isn't socialism. It doesn't fit the Democrat agenda. You're saying nothing

You mean it doesn't fit your rightwing agenda to admit that fascism is a rightwing ideology? To bad most historians, fascists and political scientists disagree with you - since you are trying to rewrite history.

 

[bripat9643]

You mean besides executing them?

Moving the goalposts. A true admission you lost

Another cracked post. Sorry, dude, there was no goalpost moving. You asked for proof Hitler hated socialists and it was provided. Why are you running from the facts?

Except I already posted proof that Hitler had no problem admitting communists to the party.

you FAIL.

 

[bripat9643]

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

However,,you've been educated here that that is incorrect.....

Afraid not. Open your mind and learn something new

Socialism is socialism. There is nothing new in that. What is new is your spin, which you can't even coherently describe. Stalinism isn't socialism cus. The same reason you think fascism isn't socialism. It doesn't fit the Democrat agenda. You're saying nothing

You mean it doesn't fit your rightwing agenda to admit that fascism is a rightwing ideology? To bad most historians, fascists and political scientists disagree with you - your trying to rewrite history.

You have consistently failed to demonstrate that fascism is right wing, and you have even admitted that it isn't. You can't even define what is being measured on the right/left yardstick.

 

[Coyote]

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

Here is what you just said:

1. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both
2. Fascism is widely regarded as right wing.

You posted two sentences in sequence that contradict other. That's pretty much the story of this whole thread: one failed attempt at committing logic after another.

How do they contradict each other?
Nazism.
Fascism.

I've linked to sources already so I'm not going to repeat that.

Your consistent inability to put your argument in your own words and replacement of that with endless links and quotes shows you don't understand what you are saying. So why would we understand what you are saying if you don't?

Too funny. First you guys demand sources and links, then you say you don't want them. Then you turn around and expect me to believe what your saying simply because "you say so"?

 

[Coyote]

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

However,,you've been educated here that that is incorrect.....

Afraid not. Open your mind and learn something new

Socialism is socialism. There is nothing new in that. What is new is your spin, which you can't even coherently describe. Stalinism isn't socialism cus. The same reason you think fascism isn't socialism. It doesn't fit the Democrat agenda. You're saying nothing

You mean it doesn't fit your rightwing agenda to admit that fascism is a rightwing ideology? To bad most historians, fascists and political scientists disagree with you - your trying to rewrite history.

You have consistently failed to demonstrate that fascism is right wing, and you have even admitted that it isn't. You can't even define what is being measured on the right/left yardstick.

You've consistently failed to comprehend what you are reading: I've never "admitted" fascism is not rightwing. What I've stated - and provided sources to back it up, is that Nazism is it's own category.

 

[bripat9643]

However,,you've been educated here that that is incorrect.....

Afraid not. Open your mind and learn something new

Socialism is socialism. There is nothing new in that. What is new is your spin, which you can't even coherently describe. Stalinism isn't socialism cus. The same reason you think fascism isn't socialism. It doesn't fit the Democrat agenda. You're saying nothing

You mean it doesn't fit your rightwing agenda to admit that fascism is a rightwing ideology? To bad most historians, fascists and political scientists disagree with you - your trying to rewrite history.

You have consistently failed to demonstrate that fascism is right wing, and you have even admitted that it isn't. You can't even define what is being measured on the right/left yardstick.

You've consistently failed to comprehend what you are reading: I've never "admitted" fascism is not rightwing. What I've stated - and provided sources to back it up, is that Nazism is it's own category.

In other words, not right wing.

Thanks for playing!

 

[kaz]

Show where Hitler said he abhorred socialists, tool

Operation Barbarossa

Outlawing socialism and arresting socialists, communists and trade union leaders
Nazi Terror Begins
In the months after Hitler took power, SA and Gestapo agents went from door to door looking for Hitler's enemies. They arrested Socialists, Communists, trade union leaders, and others who had spoken out against the Nazi party; some were murdered. By the summer of 1933, the Nazi party was the only legal political party in Germany. Nearly all organized opposition to the regime had been eliminated. Democracy was dead in Germany.

See the blue

 

[kaz]

You mean besides executing them?

Moving the goalposts. A true admission you lost

Another cracked post. Sorry, dude, there was no goalpost moving. You asked for proof Hitler hated socialists and it was provided. Why are you running from the facts?

The question was whether he was against socialism, not whether he'd killed a socialist. By that standard he hates everyone since he's killed some of every group.

It's interesting that you call "Divine.Wind" most people call "noxious intestinal gas." To each his own

 

[kaz]

Again, name the real differences between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Did you read what I wrote? I'm referring to Hitler and Stalin.

Yes, you are saying Hitler is fascist and Stalin is socialist. Fascism is the opposite of socialism. And you concede there is no real difference between them. As bripat observed, you are full of shit and making it up as you go.

Fascism is central economic planning, which is socialism. There are minor tweaks between socialist systems, but they all boil down to the same thing as you just admitted

No. What I said there is there is little difference in the end result between Stalin and Hitler due to the authoritarian/totalitarian nature of their regimes.

Socialism does not allow for private property rights, fascism does. Socialism calls for worker or state ownership of means of production. Fascism does not though it regulates it. That's a key difference not a "minor tweak". Your logic would call any government regulation of the private sector "socialism".

It is a minor tweak because as I pointed out, fascism the name of the owner has no real meaning. Socialism and fascism both control industry. Go back to the car example you didn't understand

 

[kaz]

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

However,,you've been educated here that that is incorrect.....

Afraid not. Open your mind and learn something new

Socialism is socialism. There is nothing new in that. What is new is your spin, which you can't even coherently describe. Stalinism isn't socialism cus. The same reason you think fascism isn't socialism. It doesn't fit the Democrat agenda. You're saying nothing

You mean it doesn't fit your rightwing agenda to admit that fascism is a rightwing ideology? To bad most historians, fascists and political scientists disagree with you - since you are trying to rewrite history.

You're just babbling

 

[kaz]

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

Here is what you just said:

1. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both
2. Fascism is widely regarded as right wing.

You posted two sentences in sequence that contradict other. That's pretty much the story of this whole thread: one failed attempt at committing logic after another.

How do they contradict each other?
Nazism.
Fascism.

I've linked to sources already so I'm not going to repeat that.

Your consistent inability to put your argument in your own words and replacement of that with endless links and quotes shows you don't understand what you are saying. So why would we understand what you are saying if you don't?

Too funny. First you guys demand sources and links, then you say you don't want them. Then you turn around and expect me to believe what your saying simply because "you say so"?

Here's how you make an effective argument in a debate on a message board.

You state your argument in your own words making clear what you are arguing, you back that up with quotes and links.

You went from making your shit up with no link to here, read this and figure out what my argument is. You do BOTH, Dearie