Former Sec Def Gates Dings Obama...

[mudwhistle]

Obama kept Gates in place because he didn't know anyone who could do the job, plus he needed a scapegoat in case everything went to shit. He constantly uses Bush as an excuse for his own malfeasance. Every time he's caught in the act he claims it was a Bush appointee that was responsible.

I don't hold Obama accountable for starting the war, only how he conducted the war once he was in office. When it comes to Afghanistan he is partly responsible because he supported it. His mismanagement while in office is not Bush's problem.

8 years is a drop in the bucket compared to hundreds of years dealing with Islamic aggression. The Crusades were over the same kind of threat. If one studies the mind of a Muslim you'd understand that any war against radical Islamic fundamentalism is a never ending struggle. Maybe you need to read up on the subject so you can discover just how silly your statements are.

The war was unpopular because of media focus, not because of how it was being conducted.

Holy Fuckin' Shit, are you trying to rationalize THE CRUSADES?

Seriously?

For the record, the Christians were the bad guys in the Crusades. We invaded their countries, we slaughtered people without mercy.

During the first Crusade, the inhabitants of Jerusalem- Muslim, Christian and Jew - were put to the sword when the city fell.

Just before the Third Crusade, Saladin not only didn't slaughter the Christians when he retook the city, he allowed anyone who wanted to leave to do so.

In the Fourth Crusade, the Crusaders got nowhere near the Holy Land, but instead sacked Constantinople, hastening the demise of the Byzantine Empire.

And don't even get me started on Louis IX.

Maybe, you know, just maybe, if we stopped invading their lands, stopped trying to cheat them out of their oil and stopped getting into arguments with them about whose sky pixie has a bigger dick, we wouldn't have a problem with the Middle East.

What do you mean we?

America didn't exist during the crusades. And I'm sure Muslims did their share of beheadings.

 

[mudwhistle]

Suddenly?

He should have took a dirt nap after Lockerbie. Ask Reagan. He instigated it. Then didn't follow up.

And do you really have to ask why the Middle east was suddenly unstable? Really? Seriously?

We just knocked over 2 countries in the region. One of which had been relatively stable. Do you forget that after the Iraqis were "liberated" it caused a civil war? Do you forget the Kurdish terrorists bombing the shit out of Turkey? Do you forget about all the people fleeing into places like Jordan, Egypt, and other various nations in the region?

Man..you are really something else.

This was all basically outlined by people against the invasion of Iraq. They said it would make the whole region unstable. What exactly do you think that meant?

So Bush fucked up in Iraq and you figure Obama has the right to fuck up in Egypt, Libya, and Syria?

So Obama rubs elbows with one dictator(Castro) yet feels he has to free the Middle East of any stability they had under others.

Not sure what you are getting at..seems you have Bush logic running through your veins.

Like when he put Iraq/Iran/North Korea in the same boat at the Axis of Evil.

And if you think that nothing was going to happen after the clusterfuck of Iraq in the Middle East...there's a rather nice piece of Florida land I'd like to sell you.

What did Iraq, Iran, and N.Korea have in common?

3 guesses.

Show me where I'd said there would not be consequences from the invasion. The problem with your thinking is it takes suspending reality for it to work. Bush tried it and the result was well documented. Along comes Obama and he makes the same mistake 3 times and the result speaks for itself(because the MSM refuses to).

 

[JoeB131]

Obama kept Gates in place because he didn't know anyone who could do the job, plus he needed a scapegoat in case everything went to shit. He constantly uses Bush as an excuse for his own malfeasance. Every time he's caught in the act he claims it was a Bush appointee that was responsible.

I don't hold Obama accountable for starting the war, only how he conducted the war once he was in office. When it comes to Afghanistan he is partly responsible because he supported it. His mismanagement while in office is not Bush's problem.

8 years is a drop in the bucket compared to hundreds of years dealing with Islamic aggression. The Crusades were over the same kind of threat. If one studies the mind of a Muslim you'd understand that any war against radical Islamic fundamentalism is a never ending struggle. Maybe you need to read up on the subject so you can discover just how silly your statements are.

The war was unpopular because of media focus, not because of how it was being conducted.

Holy Fuckin' Shit, are you trying to rationalize THE CRUSADES?

Seriously?

For the record, the Christians were the bad guys in the Crusades. We invaded their countries, we slaughtered people without mercy.

During the first Crusade, the inhabitants of Jerusalem- Muslim, Christian and Jew - were put to the sword when the city fell.

Just before the Third Crusade, Saladin not only didn't slaughter the Christians when he retook the city, he allowed anyone who wanted to leave to do so.

In the Fourth Crusade, the Crusaders got nowhere near the Holy Land, but instead sacked Constantinople, hastening the demise of the Byzantine Empire.

And don't even get me started on Louis IX.

Maybe, you know, just maybe, if we stopped invading their lands, stopped trying to cheat them out of their oil and stopped getting into arguments with them about whose sky pixie has a bigger dick, we wouldn't have a problem with the Middle East.

What do you mean we?

America didn't exist during the crusades. And I'm sure Muslims did their share of beheadings.

By "We", I mean the western Christian world, but I should have phrased that better. (And, yes, sorry, I am a Christian culturally if not religiously.)

But it's a nice way to dance around the point. LIke a lot of nutters, you want to rationalize the Crusades, which were an invasion of Muslim Lands that went about as badly as they always go.

 

[Bill Angel]

Here are two interesting quotes from Robert Gates:
"I don’t expect our leaders to predict the future, but like a chess player,I do expect them to look several moves ahead and anticipate the long-term effects of their policy on the region and on the lives of our brave soldiers and their families."
The above quote is from a discussion of the Iraq War in the NY Times Politics and Government blog (January 11, 2007)

The following is an excerpt of a Speech Defense Secretary Gates gave at West Point, the US Military Academy:

"In order to succeed in the asymmetric battlefields of the 21st century — the dominant combat environment in the decades to come, in my view — our Army will require leaders of uncommon agility, resourcefulness, and imagination; leaders willing and able to think and act creatively and decisively in a different kind of world and a different kind of conflict than we have prepared for over the last six decades."
"One thing will remain the same. We will still need men and women in uniform to call things as they see them and tell their subordinates and superiors alike what they need to hear, not what they want to hear."
"[In this respect] George Marshall in particular is a worthy role model."