Freedom Caucus says "fuck Trumpcare"

[Boss]

What exactly is a free market system to you? One in which the insurance companies give you a lifetime cap, or one that writes off 40% of premiums as overhead, or one that won't insure you because of pre existing conditions, or maybe one in which the policy you pay for is so bad, that it covers almost nothing? That was our free market system before the ACA

Insurance companies are not rich uncles who exist to dole out cash whenever you need it. They are capitalist enterprises in business to make a profit. They sell a product. Price is determined by supply and demand.

Yes, the insurance industry indeed had some problems before ACA but most of them were the result of collusion between the powerful insurance lobby and government, not the free market. What socialists LOVE to do is grab some example of government/capitalist collusion and blame the free market.

Now look, I understand there were issues with "pre-existing conditions" under the old system. Many insurers were simply using this as an excuse to not pay out on claims. They also used "medically unnecessary" to deny coverage. I'm not arguing they were saints who did no wrong. But you simply can't demand that an insurance company provide insurance to people who are already sick. It completely defies the intent and purpose of insurance. No one will buy their product until they get sick and need someone to pay their claims. This should be common fucking sense.

 

[brummelben]

What exactly is a free market system to you? One in which the insurance companies give you a lifetime cap, or one that writes off 40% of premiums as overhead, or one that won't insure you because of pre existing conditions, or maybe one in which the policy you pay for is so bad, that it covers almost nothing? That was our free market system before the ACA

Insurance companies are not rich uncles who exist to dole out cash whenever you need it. They are capitalist enterprises in business to make a profit. They sell a product. Price is determined by supply and demand.

Yes, the insurance industry indeed had some problems before ACA but most of them were the result of collusion between the powerful insurance lobby and government, not the free market. What socialists LOVE to do is grab some example of government/capitalist collusion and blame the free market.

Now look, I understand there were issues with "pre-existing conditions" under the old system. Many insurers were simply using this as an excuse to not pay out on claims. They also used "medically unnecessary" to deny coverage. I'm not arguing they were saints who did no wrong. But you simply can't demand that an insurance company provide insurance to people who are already sick. It completely defies the intent and purpose of insurance. No one will buy their product until they get sick and need someone to pay their claims. This should be common fucking sense.

We dont need insurance companies, we need a single payer system. No one should be making a profit and deciding who gets care, all in the name of profits

 

[Vandalshandle]

What exactly is a free market system to you? One in which the insurance companies give you a lifetime cap, or one that writes off 40% of premiums as overhead, or one that won't insure you because of pre existing conditions, or maybe one in which the policy you pay for is so bad, that it covers almost nothing? That was our free market system before the ACA

Insurance companies are not rich uncles who exist to dole out cash whenever you need it. They are capitalist enterprises in business to make a profit. They sell a product. Price is determined by supply and demand.

Yes, the insurance industry indeed had some problems before ACA but most of them were the result of collusion between the powerful insurance lobby and government, not the free market. What socialists LOVE to do is grab some example of government/capitalist collusion and blame the free market.

Now look, I understand there were issues with "pre-existing conditions" under the old system. Many insurers were simply using this as an excuse to not pay out on claims. They also used "medically unnecessary" to deny coverage. I'm not arguing they were saints who did no wrong. But you simply can't demand that an insurance company provide insurance to people who are already sick. It completely defies the intent and purpose of insurance. No one will buy their product until they get sick and need someone to pay their claims. This should be common fucking sense.

Which is the reason why Medicare, under which everybody over 65 is insured, works, and nothing else will.

 

[Boss]

You are all the same partner, a few people with multiple ID's

 

[brummelben]

What exactly is a free market system to you? One in which the insurance companies give you a lifetime cap, or one that writes off 40% of premiums as overhead, or one that won't insure you because of pre existing conditions, or maybe one in which the policy you pay for is so bad, that it covers almost nothing? That was our free market system before the ACA

Insurance companies are not rich uncles who exist to dole out cash whenever you need it. They are capitalist enterprises in business to make a profit. They sell a product. Price is determined by supply and demand.

Yes, the insurance industry indeed had some problems before ACA but most of them were the result of collusion between the powerful insurance lobby and government, not the free market. What socialists LOVE to do is grab some example of government/capitalist collusion and blame the free market.

Now look, I understand there were issues with "pre-existing conditions" under the old system. Many insurers were simply using this as an excuse to not pay out on claims. They also used "medically unnecessary" to deny coverage. I'm not arguing they were saints who did no wrong. But you simply can't demand that an insurance company provide insurance to people who are already sick. It completely defies the intent and purpose of insurance. No one will buy their product until they get sick and need someone to pay their claims. This should be common fucking sense.

Which is the reason why Medicare, under which everybody over 65 is insured, works, and nothing else will.

medicare should be expanded to all. Its very simple

 

[Boss]

We dont need insurance companies, we need a single payer system. No one should be making a profit and deciding who gets care, all in the name of profits

Then you're going to get rationing of health care.

 

[Boss]

medicare should be expanded to all. Its very simple

Can't be done with 340 million people without rationing health care.

 

[brummelben]

We dont need insurance companies, we need a single payer system. No one should be making a profit and deciding who gets care, all in the name of profits

Then you're going to get rationing of health care.

There is no rationing of healthcare with Medicare

 

[yiostheoy]

Many of Trump's voters are on ACA.

If they just repeal it then these folks will be without health care.

For the others who are die hard GOP they want lower insurance costs. But there is simply no way to do that. Still that's what the far right is holding out for.

We can underwrite a plan to insure people who don't qualify for Medicaid but are unable to afford insurance coverage and it would cost maybe $25 billion. We could even expand Medicaid by $100 billion... still way less expensive than either AHCA or ACA.

A lot of people are poor but not poor enough for Medicaid.

That's where ACA comes in.

The GOP Trump-Care plan just makes it worse for those people while paying rebates to the rich.

Ryan is a real bozo.

 

[brummelben]

medicare should be expanded to all. Its very simple

Can't be done with 340 million people without rationing health care.

Do you have facts to back that up?

 

[Boss]

There never has been a free market system of health insurance in this country. A "free market system" implies that if you don't like ABC insurance company, you can go to XYZ Insurance company. The truth is that they will ALL turn you down for insurance if you have anything serious., like hear disease, or cancer.

Secondly, every industrialized nation in the world has a form of universal health in force. Not one has opted to switch to what we had.

We have a form too, it's called Medicaid and Medicare. We also have indigent care laws in every state and government-provided free health clinics in every county.

You can't "switch" from a socialist system to a free market capitalist system. The infrastructure for a free market has been destroyed and can't be revived.

We can certainly make reforms to how insurance companies operate but that involves going around the powerful insurance lobby and the politicians they own. Letting them write the fucking health care bills is NOT a solution.

 

[Boss]

medicare should be expanded to all. Its very simple

Can't be done with 340 million people without rationing health care.

Do you have facts to back that up?

Yes... It's a fact called MATH!

 

[brummelben]

There never has been a free market system of health insurance in this country. A "free market system" implies that if you don't like ABC insurance company, you can go to XYZ Insurance company. The truth is that they will ALL turn you down for insurance if you have anything serious., like hear disease, or cancer.

Secondly, every industrialized nation in the world has a form of universal health in force. Not one has opted to switch to what we had.

We have a form too, it's called Medicaid and Medicare. We also have indigent care laws in every state and government-provided free health clinics in every county.

You can't "switch" from a socialist system to a free market capitalist system. The infrastructure for a free market has been destroyed and can't be revived.

We can certainly make reforms to how insurance companies operate but that involves going around the powerful insurance lobby and the politicians they own. Letting them write the fucking health care bills is NOT a solution.

There is not, nor has there even been a socialist health care system. Please get a dictionary and learn what "socialist" means

 

[brummelben]

medicare should be expanded to all. Its very simple

Can't be done with 340 million people without rationing health care.

Do you have facts to back that up?

Yes... It's a fact called MATH!

Share your math with us

 

[skews13]

Can someone please explain the logic here? Republicans ran on repealing Obamacare. Sure, the idea of replacing it with sensible free market reforms was also discussed but the Ryan bill isn't anything more than a fluffing of Obamacare.

Now... IF this were being done to garner bipartisan support from Democrats, I could maybe understand it.... but not a single Democrat is going to support this. So what was the point in trying to tiptoe around and appeal to the left with a replacement?

Why can't Republicans simply repeal it like they voted to do in 2015? If we're going to have a replacement, where are all the elements Trump promised? Ryan claims we're getting 85% of what we want... No we're not, and we're not that stupid. I don't think we're getting 5% of what we wanted.

Do these people not realize that if they fail to do what they were elected to do, we're going to send them home? This is just absolutely ridiculous. We've not protested against this mess for all these years only to see it pissed away like this.

This isn't about healthcare. It's about tax cuts for rich people. Anything, and everything Republicans do is about tax cuts for rich people.

 

[Boss]

There is not, nor has there even been a socialist health care system. Please get a dictionary and learn what "socialist" means

That's what "single payer" is... that's what you want!

 

[brummelben]

There is not, nor has there even been a socialist health care system. Please get a dictionary and learn what "socialist" means

That's what "single payer" is... that's what you want!

Single payer has zero to do with socialism. The absolute closest we come to socialism in health care is our VA system, want to close that down?

 

[Boss]

Single payer has zero to do with socialism. The absolute closest we come to socialism in health care is our VA system, want to close that down?

The VA is single payer, dipshit!

No, I don't want to get rid of one of the benefits we provide to our heroes in uniform who risk their lives and health to defend our nation. I think they deserve at least that much from us. That doesn't mean I believe that system should be applied to every person in America.

 

[Vandalshandle]

There never has been a free market system of health insurance in this country. A "free market system" implies that if you don't like ABC insurance company, you can go to XYZ Insurance company. The truth is that they will ALL turn you down for insurance if you have anything serious., like hear disease, or cancer.

Secondly, every industrialized nation in the world has a form of universal health in force. Not one has opted to switch to what we had.

We have a form too, it's called Medicaid and Medicare. We also have indigent care laws in every state and government-provided free health clinics in every county.

You can't "switch" from a socialist system to a free market capitalist system. The infrastructure for a free market has been destroyed and can't be revived.

We can certainly make reforms to how insurance companies operate but that involves going around the powerful insurance lobby and the politicians they own. Letting them write the fucking health care bills is NOT a solution.

Boss, having spent my 50 year career in health insurance, I can assure you that health insurance companies have little or no lobbies in Washington. That is because we have almost no regulation from Washington. We deal 90% with state, not federal regulation.
That has been changing in the last 8 years, only because of ACA, but such lobbies are not thoroughly entrenched. The health insurance industry is trying to guide Congress toward what they are doing with Medicare Advantage plans. The have no risk under those plans, and it is in their best interests for Congress to expand Medicare to all ages, and allow insurance companies to offer alternatives to straight government Medicare. The health insurance industry is, in fact, moving out of the risk business altogether. They make far more money, with no risk, hiring themselves out to major employers to handle their self insured plans administration. If congress were to make health insurance illegal, the insurance companies would be delighted, as long as they can continue to write cost plus plans, like Medicare Advantage..

 

[Boss]

Share your math with us

340 million Americans using a health care system designed to accommodate perhaps 80 million people without adding additional doctors and staff or building new hospitals... equals health care rationing.