George Zimmerman banned from Tinder dating app

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Stop lying. You have zero proof that Martin was a thug or that he attacked Zimmerman.

I have very credible evidence that Martin was sitting on top of Zimmerman, punching him.

Are you questioning the veracity of that credible, eyewitness testimony?

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[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Umm, maybe because he is white?

What Race Is George Zimmerman?

White dude:

You should just give it up. You are wrong on every account. Stop digging and put the shovel down.

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[MarcATL]

So does that apply to cops when a perp is fleeing them unarmed as well?

Yes.

Not too long ago, a bitch-ass cop in North Carolina put about 2 or 3 slugs in the back of an unarmed man fleeing for his life for no reason. Killing him dead on the spot.

Sounds like murder. I need to hear more.

What more do you need to know?

Does your standard apply to them too? Was this your position that only a thug does this then?

Cops can be thugs too.

You are wrong to assume I give them a free pass.
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Interesting....

I'm referring to the shooting of Walter Scott, a national cop-killing story that happened during the Obama years.

I'm sure you've heard of it.

Take a gander to what your fellow USMB self-proclaimed conservatives had to say about the matter...

Search Results for Query: "Walter Scott" | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Hint: They didn't share your stance that the cop was wrong. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Faun]

The evidence shows you’re crazy as fuck.

Really?

How?

A kid who was busted stealing jewelry and other behavioral problems that were going unchecked is somehow evidence that I am crazy?

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Prove he stole jewelry....

 

[Fang]

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Beating someone up who starts a fight with you is not thuggery, it’s self defense.

Only to the point where the violence is stopped.

SITTING ON TOP OF HIM BEATING THE FUCK OUT OF HIS HEAD IS NOT SELF DEFENSE!!!!


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Exactly....and there is witness testimony to that as well as the forensic report which demonstrated that the fatal shot was fired into trayvon whilst he was on top of Z.

Do these morons not understand that the jury spent hours examining all this evidence (and they were no friends of Z) and thus were compelled by the evidence and the law to declare Z was not guilty.

Gunshot wound expert: Evidence supports Zimmerman's account of fatal encounter - NBC News

He was found not guilty of 2nd degree murder which was the correct verdict for that charge. The prosecution was incompetent. They had a much better chance if they started with manslaughter from day 1.

btw... I always wondered how Zimmerman had the wherewithal to pull his gun out and shoot while getting his head slammed into the ground.

Zimmerman also lied about the gun, from what I recall. His initial statement was that Trayon grabbed it and tried to wrestle it from him. Another time, he said Trayvon never touched the gun.

My take on events that night - I think Zimmerman was a hot head who was tired of the crime in his neighborhood. He becomes a neighborhood watch captain and arms himself. One rainy night he's on the way to the store and all it takes is for him to see some person he doesn't know walking around the neighborhood. He calls the police and tells them "these assholes always get away with this". Police can't arrive soon enough so Zimmerman, knowing he's armed, gets out and starts following. Martin doesn't know who this person is eyeing him so he runs. Zimmerman, well aware where the path leads, heads down the street and cuts through the houses to the path. Zimmerman of course is armed and isn't exactly scared. This is his moment to catch someone in the act. The two meet up and Martin wants to know what is going on. Zimmerman starts questioning him. A brawl ensues because neither is willing to back down and Zimmerman starts getting his ass kicked. This is when Zimmerman pulls the gun (while getting his head beat into the ground without any police or army training) and shoots Martin. Zimmerman views himself a hero until public opinion weighs in and it comes out that Martin was staying in the neighborhood.

IMO the evidence and testimony prove this a very valid theory of events for that night. It's not 2nd degree murder. But through his actions and over zealous need to pursue Martin, Zimmerman caused the confrontation and ultimately his need to pull his gun. My question, how can someone claim self defense when they are the ones that pursued? Zimmerman's life or property was not in danger in anyway when he left his car to follow while armed. It was horrible decision which caused the confrontation. What person wouldn't be spooked while walking through their own neighborhood at night and some guy is following them?

 

[Faun]

Umm, maybe because he is white?

What Race Is George Zimmerman?

White dude:

You should just give it up. You are wrong on every account. Stop digging and put the shovel down.

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LOLOL

His race is white. You really have no clue about what you’re rambling on about.

 

[MarcATL]

that cop was convicted,,,

The self-proclaimed conservatives of USMB were all upset a bout that fact, they were all pro-cop.

You weren't around, so you don't know, but it shouldn't surprise you, if you have a lick of sense in your head.

 

[progressive hunter]

Boy I love it when you bastards make things so clear and nice and easy.

So does that apply to cops when a perp is fleeing them unarmed as well?

Not too long ago, a bitch-ass cop in North Carolina put about 2 or 3 slugs in the back of an unarmed man fleeing for his life for no reason. Killing him dead on the spot.

Does your standard apply to them too? Was this your position that only a thug does this then?

that cop was convicted,,,

The self-proclaimed conservatives were all upset a bout that fact, they were all pro-cop.

You weren't around, so you don't know, but it shouldn't surprise you, if you have a lick of sense in your head.

what do you mean I wasnt around???


i'm 54 yrs old so I've been around for a while,,,,

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

What more do you need to know?

If the fleeing person is a known violent criminal or wanted for murder, deadly force is not only justified, failure to apprehend or subdue said person would be derelict of duty. So, yeah. Unlike you, I wait for all the facts.

But again, until I hear more, I don't see any justification for that shooting.

Happy?

I'm referring to the shooting of Walter Scott, a national cop-killing story that happened during the Obama years.

I may have. I don't recall at the moment.

Did the cop get convicted?

Take a gander to what your fellow USMB self-proclaimed conservatives had to say about the matter...

I am a liberal, not a conservative.

But after looking at the link, that is a bullshit shooting that I would call murder, not "deprivation of rights under color of law." Good thing the guy was standing there with a camera.

I am not defending unjustified shootings. Cops who do that are, indeed, THUGS!!!

Just like Trayvon.

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[MarcATL]

what do you mean I wasnt around???


i'm 54 yrs old so I've been around for a while,,,,

You weren't around on USMB to witness all your fellow self-proclaimed conservatives supporting that racist, black-people killing cop. Both before and after the verdict.

 

[Fang]

He didn’t “beat the fuck out of his head.” Again, lol Zimmerman needed was a bandage.

Pictures prove otherwise.

Are you telling me that Zimmerman was not justified in using deadly force to stop Martin from sitting on top of him, hitting him in the face/head?

Is that what you're going with?



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The pictures prove no such thing. The pictures show he was hit in the mouth and nose and that he hit his head on the cement walkway.

Again, he didn’t need to go to the hospital and the treatment was to clean him up and put a bandage on his boo-boo.

I LOL'd out loud on that one!!! But yea, Zimmerman was playing cop and got in over his head and started getting his ass kicked in a fight that HE initiated through one poor decision after another. So he decides to end it and pulls the gun.

 

[MarcATL]

What more do you need to know?

If the fleeing person is a known violent criminal or wanted for murder, deadly force is not only justified, failure to apprehend or subdue said person would be derelict of duty. So, yeah. Unlike you, I wait for all the facts.

But again, until I hear more, I don't see any justification for that shooting.

Happy?

I'm referring to the shooting of Walter Scott, a national cop-killing story that happened during the Obama years.

I may have. I don't recall at the moment.

Did the cop get convicted?

Take a gander to what your fellow USMB self-proclaimed conservatives had to say about the matter...

I am a liberal, not a conservative.

But after looking at the link, that is a bullshit shooting that I would call murder, not "deprivation of rights under color of law." Good thing the guy was standing there with a camera.

I am not defending unjustified shootings. Cops who do that are, indeed, THUGS!!!

Just like Trayvon.

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If you're a liberal, then call me Santy Clause.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Prove he stole jewelry....

I'm just going off what these guys said:

Police buried Trayvon's criminal history - WND - WND

and this:

Weed, fights and guns: Trayvon Martin’s text messages released

Am I not justified in relying on Martin's own words to characterize him as thuggish?

Why is that so offensive to you? Can it not be true that TM was a thug, and also a shame that he was killed so young?

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[progressive hunter]

what do you mean I wasnt around???


i'm 54 yrs old so I've been around for a while,,,,

You weren't around on USMB to witness all your fellow self-proclaimed conservatives supporting that racist, black-people killing cop. Both before and after the verdict.

how do you know I wasnt here???

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I LOL'd out loud on that one!!! But yea, Zimmerman was playing cop and got in over his head and started getting his ass kicked in a fight that HE initiated through one poor decision after another.

All likely true.

So he decides to end it and pulls the gun.

After being pinned and beat, yes. It was the correct decision.

I would too. Justified homicide.

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[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

If you're a liberal, then call me Santy Clause.

I am not a commie leftist, but oh yes. I am a liberal.

This guy was a liberal:

Stop bastardizing my label.

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[Fang]

I LOL'd out loud on that one!!! But yea, Zimmerman was playing cop and got in over his head and started getting his ass kicked in a fight that HE initiated through one poor decision after another.

All likely true.

So he decides to end it and pulls the gun.

After being pinned and beat, yes. It was the correct decision.

I would too. Justified homicide.

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Well, that is the crux of the debate. Was Zimmerman's life in imminent danger? Did Zimmerman do enough to cause the situation he's in because maybe Martin thought his life was in danger? Certainly not 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter? I think so. IMO both caused the outcome. But Zimmerman started the whole sequence of events with one poor decision after another.

Manslaughter in Florida can be defined in 3 ways, this is what I think Zimmerman was guilty of:
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Manslaughter by Culpable Negligence (Involuntary Manslaughter): Engaging in “Culpably Negligent” conduct that resulted in the death of another person.

Culpable negligence means recklessly acting without reasonable caution and putting another person at risk of injury or death (or failing to do something with the same consequences).

It is the omission to do something which a reasonable, prudent and honest man would do, or the doing something which such a man would not do under all the circumstances surrounding each particular case.
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DUI is usually the example given here. But as I read the words, IMO this describes Zimmerman on that night.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Well, that is the crux of the debate. Was Zimmerman's life in imminent danger?

Head injuries can cause death. Not sure if you knew that.

Punches to the head and face can cause serious head injuries that result in death.

One punch from an average man can be fatal. You would have immediately agreed had you had martial arts experience.

So, receiving repeated blows to the head while being pinned down and no indication that said beating would ever stop, I would say Zimmerman was justified in believing his life was in imminent danger, and he was justified in using deadly force before he lost consciousness, thereby losing the ability to use such force and being beat to death.

To argue otherwise is complete obtuse.

Did Zimmerman do enough to cause the situation he's in because maybe Martin thought his life was in danger?

What Zimmerman did to cause the situation is irrelevant. When Martin is sitting on top of him, beating the shit out of his face and head, Zimmerman's prior actions are no longer at issue. Martin can hardly be in fear for his life if he has Zimmerman pinned to the ground and unable to stop Martin's repeated blows.

Manslaughter?

Manslaughter requires reckless action that resulted in the death of another.

You could argue that getting into that situation may have been "reckless" but the act of shooting TM was not reckless.

I think so. IMO both caused the outcome.

I disagree.

What caused the outcome was Martin continuing to keep Zimmerman down while beating him. Had Martin backed off, Zimmerman would not have been justified in using deadly force.

But Zimmerman started the whole sequence of events with one poor decision after another.

Probably true.

BUT, Zimmerman's fault became a non-factor when Martin continued to pin him and beat him.

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[Fang]

Well, that is the crux of the debate. Was Zimmerman's life in imminent danger?

Head injuries can cause death. Not sure if you knew that.

Punches to the head and face can cause serious head injuries that result in death.

One punch from an average man can be fatal. You would have immediately agreed had you had martial arts experience.

So, receiving repeated blows to the head while being pinned down and no indication that said beating would ever stop, I would say Zimmerman was justified in believing his life was in imminent danger, and he was justified in using deadly force before he lost consciousness, thereby losing the ability to use such force and being beat to death.

To argue otherwise is complete obtuse.

Did Zimmerman do enough to cause the situation he's in because maybe Martin thought his life was in danger?

What Zimmerman did to cause the situation is irrelevant. When Martin is sitting on top of him, beating the shit out of his face and head, Zimmerman's prior actions are no longer at issue. Martin can hardly be in fear for his life if he has Zimmerman pinned to the ground and unable to stop Martin's repeated blows.

Manslaughter?

Manslaughter requires reckless action that resulted in the death of another.

You could argue that getting into that situation may have been "reckless" but the act of shooting TM was not reckless.

I think so. IMO both caused the outcome.

I disagree.

What caused the outcome was Martin continuing to keep Zimmerman down while beating him. Had Martin backed off, Zimmerman would not have been justified in using deadly force.

But Zimmerman started the whole sequence of events with one poor decision after another.

Probably true.

BUT, Zimmerman's fault became a non-factor when Martin continued to pin him and beat him.

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Yes. I think we're all aware a punch can cause death Captain Obvious. I hope it didn't take you martial arts experience to learn this. But what did you do to be on the opposite end of a punch? If I initiate a fight in a bar and proceed to get my ass kicked can I now pull a gun to end it without any consequences? According to you YES. Sure, anyone would pull the gun to prevent death. But that doesn't negate the fact that I initiated and caused a situation that I failed to control.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Yes. I think we're all aware a punch can cause death Captain Obvious. I hope it didn't take you martial arts experience to learn this.

You are the one acting like you didn't know this. Cut the snark.

But what did you do to be on the opposite end of a punch? If I initiate a fight in a bar and proceed to get my ass kicked can I now pull a gun to end it without any consequences? According to you YES. Sure, anyone would pull the gun to prevent death. But that doesn't negate the fact that I initiated and caused a situation that I failed to control.

Have a look at this analysis of Florida law:

Florida Law on Self-Defense | Use of Deadly and Non Deadly Force

"In addition to the exception for forcible felonies, self-defense is not available where the evidence establishes that the defendant initially provoked violence against himself. See Section 776.041, Florida Statutes. To claim self-defense in this scenario, the accused must present sufficient evidence that the force used by the alleged victim was so great that the accused reasonably believed that he or she was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she had exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant."

Do you disagree that this was the case with Zimmerman?

"Alternatively, the person who provokes the initial attack may nonetheless claim self-defense if: (1) in good faith, he or she withdrew from physical contact, (2) clearly indicated to the other person that he or she desired to withdraw and terminate the use of force, and (3) despite the communication and withdrawal, the other person continued or resumed the use of force."

Based on the eyewitness testimony, a reasonable jury can, and, in fact, DID find this to be the case.

So, sorry your boy got smoked, but HE REFUSED TO ALLOW ZIMMERMAN TO RETREAT.

The same would hold true under your bar fight scenario.

If the instigator retreats, the defender becomes the assailant if he continues to pursue and attack.

I am sorry that you don't like it that way, but tough shit.

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