GOP hopefuls remind Iowans they oppose Gay Rights

[bodecea]

It's only apples and oranges to you because you simply refuse to believe it.

Here's another one you can choke on.
Fact Sheet: Lesbian Partner Violence

About 17-45% of lesbians report having been the victim of a least one act of physical violence perpetrated by a lesbian partner (1,5,6,13). Types of physical abuse named by more than 10% of participants in one study included:
Disrupting other’s eating or sleeping habits
Pushing or shoving, driving recklessly to punish, and slapping, kicking, hitting, or biting (11).
Sexual abuse by a woman partner has been reported by up to 50% of lesbians (12).
Psychological abuse has been reported as occurring at least one time by 24% to 90% of lesbians (1,5,6,11,14).

Look at your own quoted stats....what kind of accurate range can one get from 17-45%....you call that valid? Or 24%-90%...what kind of accuracy can one get from a range of 66%? Seriously?

And how many of these lesbians were married? Remember, one must compare like to like.

Look at the first link I provided. It cleary showed that lesbian violence and gay male violence was higher among couples than heterosexual violence among couples. With lesbian violence being the highest.........That's from the USDOJ......I trust that far more than the numerous LGBT blogs out there.

You can't sit there and tell me that homosexual marriages are more stable when statistics show that homosexuals on average are more violent in their relationships. That homosexuals are more inclined to stray in their relationships.

I want real numbers on gay marriage divorce rates. There are no real studies out there to provide any statistics......That's why the lies and propoganda has to stop from the gay activists, because they have nothing to back it up.......It's all false propoganda and lies at this point, put out to try and further their cause.

I am still waiting for you to show us the hetero to homo MARRIED domestic violence stats, Wicked Jester.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Ah...again you accuse me of lying...and yet not once have you backed that up. Apparently it's what you do when you've got nothing else.

Now...show us the % of married lesbian couples with domestic violence reported compared to th % of married hetero couples with domestic violence reported. Anything else is apples and oranges.

I await your evidence.

It's only apples and oranges to you because you simply refuse to believe it.

Here's another one you can choke on.
Fact Sheet: Lesbian Partner Violence

LOL, please look at the evidence dude. If a domestic violence case is reported with 2 lesbians then TWO FEMALE people are reported as female lesbian related on that ONE CASE.
If a straight couple is reported as a domestic violence then ONLY ONE female is reported in the statistics YOUR STUDY reports.
If that doesn't show you that your study is flawed, nothing will.
I believe you will see it and acknowledge that.

Bullshit, dude!

The DOJ survey was about violence among couples. It was about INDIVIDUALS reporting violence in their relationship. More lesbian INDIVIDUALS reported violence in their relationship then Hetero INDIVIDUAL females in their relationship by a large margin.......More INDIVIDUAL gay men reported violence in their relationship than INDIVIDUAL hetero men in their relationship.

 

[bodecea]

It's only apples and oranges to you because you simply refuse to believe it.

Here's another one you can choke on.
Fact Sheet: Lesbian Partner Violence

LOL, please look at the evidence dude. If a domestic violence case is reported with 2 lesbians then TWO FEMALE people are reported as female lesbian related on that ONE CASE.
If a straight couple is reported as a domestic violence then ONLY ONE female is reported in the statistics YOUR STUDY reports.
If that doesn't show you that your study is flawed, nothing will.
I believe you will see it and acknowledge that.

Bullshit, dude!

The DOJ survey was about violence among couples. It was about INDIVIDUALS reporting violence in their relationship. More lesbian INDIVIDUALS reported violence in their relationship then Hetero INDIVIDUAL females in their relationship by a large margin.......More INDIVIDUAL gay men reported violence in their realationship than INDIVIDUAL hetero men in their relationship.

Where are the MARRIED couple comparisons, Wicked Jester?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Look at your own quoted stats....what kind of accurate range can one get from 17-45%....you call that valid? Or 24%-90%...what kind of accuracy can one get from a range of 66%? Seriously?

And how many of these lesbians were married? Remember, one must compare like to like.

Look at the first link I provided. It cleary showed that lesbian violence and gay male violence was higher among couples than heterosexual violence among couples. With lesbian violence being the highest.........That's from the USDOJ......I trust that far more than the numerous LGBT blogs out there.

You can't sit there and tell me that homosexual marriages are more stable when statistics show that homosexuals on average are more violent in their relationships. That homosexuals are more inclined to stray in their relationships.

I want real numbers on gay marriage divorce rates. There are no real studies out there to provide any statistics......That's why the lies and propoganda has to stop from the gay activists, because they have nothing to back it up.......It's all false propoganda and lies at this point, put out to try and further their cause.

I am still waiting for you to show us the hetero to homo MARRIED domestic violence stats, Wicked Jester.

There are none, Bodecea!

What i'm trying to show you is that you cannot sit here and claim that Homosexuals are any different in their relationships.....And that no doubt translates to marriage and divorce.....In fact, I'll say it again, the DOJ shows that Homosexuals have a higher propensity for violence in their relationships.......That too will translate to marriage.

Until studies are done, you activists need to stop with the propoganda. Because you have zero evidence to support it......And you know it!

 

[bodecea]

Look at the first link I provided. It cleary showed that lesbian violence and gay male violence was higher among couples than heterosexual violence among couples. With lesbian violence being the highest.........That's from the USDOJ......I trust that far more than the numerous LGBT blogs out there.

You can't sit there and tell me that homosexual marriages are more stable when statistics show that homosexuals on average are more violent in their relationships. That homosexuals are more inclined to stray in their relationships.

I want real numbers on gay marriage divorce rates. There are no real studies out there to provide any statistics......That's why the lies and propoganda has to stop from the gay activists, because they have nothing to back it up.......It's all false propoganda and lies at this point, put out to try and further their cause.

I am still waiting for you to show us the hetero to homo MARRIED domestic violence stats, Wicked Jester.

There are none!

...all the rest was babble, babble, babble...

Thank you. Get back to us when you get those Married to Married comparison stats.

 

[gekaap]

Look at the first link I provided. It cleary showed that lesbian violence and gay male violence was higher among couples than heterosexual violence among couples. With lesbian violence being the highest.........That's from the USDOJ......I trust that far more than the numerous LGBT blogs out there.

You can't sit there and tell me that homosexual marriages are more stable when statistics show that homosexuals on average are more violent in their relationships. That homosexuals are more inclined to stray in their relationships.

I want real numbers on gay marriage divorce rates. There are no real studies out there to provide any statistics......That's why the lies and propoganda has to stop from the gay activists, because they have nothing to back it up.......It's all false propoganda and lies at this point, put out to try and further their cause.

There are some problems with the data. First of all, as pointed out, most domestic violence incidents go unreported. This automatically makes any stats pretty much useless. Second, domestic violence plays out differently in different situations, with those variables reflecting things like reporting. Consider this:

-Most straight male victims of domestic violence will never report the crime because of shame/embarrassment.

-Response to domestic violence calls among heterosexual couples heavily favors women. If a man slaps a woman in the face that report is more likely to gain a response than a report of a woman slapping a man in the face.

-Response to domestic violence calls between two men are generally not overlooked and draw responses.

-Gay men are still not very likely to report domestic violence, however are more likely than straight men because there is less shame associated with being beaten by another man than there is over being beaten by a woman.

-Most straight female victims of domestic violence do not report it out of fear of retaliation. When such incidents are reported, it usually reflects the woman being fed up after long term abuse.

-Lesbian victims of domestic violence tend to be less fearful of retaliation and are most of any demographic likely to report incidents because in addition to the absence of fear, there is also no pride that is sacrificed.

I will work on finding the old references for this stuff, but you can chew on it in the meantime.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I am still waiting for you to show us the hetero to homo MARRIED domestic violence stats, Wicked Jester.

There are none!

...all the rest was babble, babble, babble...

Thank you. Get back to us when you get those Married to Married comparison stats.

You get back to me with those divorce rates, that you activists keep trying to claim.

But, the DOJ clearly showed that homesexuals are more prone to violence in their relationships than heteros in theirs......So, that kinda blows the homosexuals are better in their relationships claim.

Face it, people are people. Just because you and your wife don't smack each other around, nor do my wife and I smack each other around, does not mean that the homosexual, or straight couple down the street aren't smacking each other around.....Like I said, people are people.....And the gay activists need to stop with their unsubstantiated propoganda about divorce.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I am still waiting for you to show us the hetero to homo MARRIED domestic violence stats, Wicked Jester.

There are none!

...all the rest was babble, babble, babble...

Thank you. Get back to us when you get those Married to Married comparison stats.

You're saying it's all babble, Bodecea?......So, show otherwise. Where's your proof to show that gays are better in their relationships. The DOJ survey says otherwise as far as violence goes. Are you going to say that all those homosexuals surveyed were liars?.........Show those divorce rates you gays keep blabbering about.

I'll be waiting.....Back up those claims, Bodecea.

 

[bodecea]

There are none!

...all the rest was babble, babble, babble...

Thank you. Get back to us when you get those Married to Married comparison stats.

You get back to me with those divorce rates, that you activists keep trying to claim.

But, the DOJ clearly showed that homesexuals are more prone to violence in their relationships than heteros in theirs......So, that kinda blows the homosexuals are better in their relationships claim.

Face it, people are people. Just because you and your wife don't smack each other around, nor do my wife and I smack each other around, does not mean that the homosexual, or straight couple down the street aren't smacking each other around.....Like I said, people are people.....And the gay activists need to stop with their unsubstantiated propoganda about divorce.

Fact:

Divorce Rate by state. Definition, graph and map.

Show us which of those top states in Divorce have gay marriage factored in, Wicked Jester.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Thank you. Get back to us when you get those Married to Married comparison stats.

You get back to me with those divorce rates, that you activists keep trying to claim.

But, the DOJ clearly showed that homesexuals are more prone to violence in their relationships than heteros in theirs......So, that kinda blows the homosexuals are better in their relationships claim.

Face it, people are people. Just because you and your wife don't smack each other around, nor do my wife and I smack each other around, does not mean that the homosexual, or straight couple down the street aren't smacking each other around.....Like I said, people are people.....And the gay activists need to stop with their unsubstantiated propoganda about divorce.

Fact:

Divorce Rate by state. Definition, graph and map.

Show us which of those top states in Divorce have gay marriage factored in, Wicked Jester.

That proves absolutely nothing, Bodecea.

Show the straight up percentage of homo divorce, as compared to the straight up percentage of hetero divorce.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Ah, more evidence of your bafflement.

Your gratuitous use of logical fallacies is evidence of my "bafflement?"

I will make even more allowances for your lack of understanding of the facts.

I've not noticed you dealing in facts, quite the opposite.

However, I will point out that even easily baffled people are allowed to marry.

Irrelevant and quite stupid - an attempt to erect a straw man.

 

[bodecea]

You get back to me with those divorce rates, that you activists keep trying to claim.

But, the DOJ clearly showed that homesexuals are more prone to violence in their relationships than heteros in theirs......So, that kinda blows the homosexuals are better in their relationships claim.

Face it, people are people. Just because you and your wife don't smack each other around, nor do my wife and I smack each other around, does not mean that the homosexual, or straight couple down the street aren't smacking each other around.....Like I said, people are people.....And the gay activists need to stop with their unsubstantiated propoganda about divorce.

Fact:

Divorce Rate by state. Definition, graph and map.

Show us which of those top states in Divorce have gay marriage factored in, Wicked Jester.

That proves absolutely nothing, Bodecea.

Show the straight up percentage of homo divorce, as compared to the straight up percentage of hetero divorce.

It proves more than anything YOU have provided so far...that states with gay marriage such as Massachusetts have a lower divorce rate than states that "save the sanctity" of straight marriage.


Those straights.....more about saving the sanctity of divorce....is more like it.

 

[bodecea]

Ah, more evidence of your bafflement.

Your gratuitous use of logical fallacies is evidence of my "bafflement?"

How are they logical fallacies? Be specific, please.

I will make even more allowances for your lack of understanding of the facts.

I've not noticed you dealing in facts, quite the opposite.

Actually, I have...all along.

However, I will point out that even easily baffled people are allowed to marry.

Irrelevant and quite stupid - an attempt to erect a straw man.

Not stupid or irrelevant at all....but, if you think it's a strawman...point out how.

 

[Gadawg73]

It's only apples and oranges to you because you simply refuse to believe it.

Here's another one you can choke on.
Fact Sheet: Lesbian Partner Violence

LOL, please look at the evidence dude. If a domestic violence case is reported with 2 lesbians then TWO FEMALE people are reported as female lesbian related on that ONE CASE.
If a straight couple is reported as a domestic violence then ONLY ONE female is reported in the statistics YOUR STUDY reports.
If that doesn't show you that your study is flawed, nothing will.
I believe you will see it and acknowledge that.

Bullshit, dude!

The DOJ survey was about violence among couples. It was about INDIVIDUALS reporting violence in their relationship. More lesbian INDIVIDUALS reported violence in their relationship then Hetero INDIVIDUAL females in their relationship by a large margin.......More INDIVIDUAL gay men reported violence in their relationship than INDIVIDUAL hetero men in their relationship.

Some more facts for you Wicked Jester.
This is what the study was about, the types of abuse INCLUDED in this report and the overwhelming data reveals from this study:
"The researchers found that the most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal, emotional, psychological abuse and combined emotional/psychological abuse".

Where is this violence you keep talking about?
Talk about bull shit and ignorance. You are too lazy to read your own so called "evidence".

YOUR study that YOU produced as fact is NOT EVEN PHYSICAL ABUSE.
Come on man. Something, anything, somewhere, SOME PLACE to back up your claims.
The Family Research Council did you in brother. You bought it hook, line and sinker.
Fraud.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Good news. That doesn't include me.

The posts I see from you belie the claims you make.

Unfortunately, though, you've showing yourself to be on the far right.

I'm certainly to the right of you economically.

Actually, alot of people would seriously deny it.

No one with integrity.

Straw man. I never suggested any such thing.

It was just a question.

I would consider a great deal of current and proposed gun laws to be "heavy" control measures. People should be allowed to possess weapons, because when it comes down to it laws will not stop criminals from getting their hands on guns to use in committing crimes.

Okay, that's fairly sensible.

I argued that instead of background checks for gun purchases, that if we really need some kind of regulation it should maybe shift toward ammunition purchases instead, since ammunition is the part of the weapon that is expended, and since I don't think it's likely that criminal thugs are likely to have the capability of producing ammunition themselves. It's not a perfect answer by any means, but I think it's more likely to inhibit criminals than regulations on gun sales.

That's pretty heavy handed control, you must admit. California attempted this sort of stealth gun ban and it was found unconstitutional.

I'm not against all regulations regarding guns.

If you outlaw ammunition, regulating guns would be kind of senseless.

You don't even have anything productive to say, or anything intelligent. I'm not going to debate the constitutionality of the health care bill here, because that discussion has already happened in its own thread.

Yes, and I mopped the floor with you.

Yet you insist that it is inappropriate to allow marriage to evolve.

What I've stated is the reason that marriage offers advantage to society. Remove that, and the institution has no value to a stable society.

You insist that any such evolution is a conspiracy theorist style attack on the nuclear family.

And you accuse me of straw man arguments.

Counterculture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are against society from evolving into a form that has less bigoted hatred.

I am against the devolvling of society back into the traditional autocratic rule which has plagued most of human history. I oppose the concentration of power in the hands of tiny minority which rules the masses for their own interests.

For those with the wits to do so, a fastidious study of history from the enlightenment present, reveals that certain traits and structures make possible the liberty which we currently shed ourselves of. Among those are the principles of self-reliance and independence, coupled with the family clan structure for support within a safe and loyal body.

You want to maintain the same status quo of discrimination,

You speak falsely - I promote no discrimination. I clearly stated at the outset that I could care less who people have sex with, it's none of my business.

persecution, and maintenance of one religious position's influence over society with a disregard of acceptance of other peaceful religious positions.

That is an outright lie.

Then maybe you need to talk more about responsible parenthood and sexuality.

I speak plenty on it. The counter-culture along with the welfare dependency of the left have created a nation where the norm is for children to not have a father in a committed relationship with the mother.

This is simply the latest assault, from the usual suspects.

So now you're arguing conspiracy theories.

Don't be an idiot - it does little to shore up your faulty arguments.

It's clear that you're not arguing anything based on facts or reason.

Out-of-wedlock births hit record high - CNN

{In 1970, family households accounted for 81% of all households. By 2000, this
percentage had decreased to 69%. The percentage of married couple households with
own children decreased from 40% in 1970 to 24% in 2000. Other family households
increased from10.6% to 16.0% of households from 1970 to 2000. The largest part of the
change in family households is attributed to the growth in non-family households, the
growth in one-person households and the growth in the percentage of women living
alone.1}

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/coleman.pdf

Do some research, turn off Maddow, just fucking THINK! (It won't kill you.)

 

[Uncensored2008]

How are they logical fallacies? Be specific, please.

All you have offered thus far are red herrings and straw man arguments.

Actually, I have...all along.

Actually, you have not. You spout talking points with no apparent understanding of their meaning.

Not stupid or irrelevant at all....but, if you think it's a strawman...point out how.

ROFL

Say goodnight, gracie...

 

[Cecilie1200]

Look at the first link I provided. It cleary showed that lesbian violence and gay male violence was higher among couples than heterosexual violence among couples. With lesbian violence being the highest.........That's from the USDOJ......I trust that far more than the numerous LGBT blogs out there.

You can't sit there and tell me that homosexual marriages are more stable when statistics show that homosexuals on average are more violent in their relationships. That homosexuals are more inclined to stray in their relationships.

I want real numbers on gay marriage divorce rates. There are no real studies out there to provide any statistics......That's why the lies and propoganda has to stop from the gay activists, because they have nothing to back it up.......It's all false propoganda and lies at this point, put out to try and further their cause.

I am still waiting for you to show us the hetero to homo MARRIED domestic violence stats, Wicked Jester.

There are none, Bodecea!

What i'm trying to show you is that you cannot sit here and claim that Homosexuals are any different in their relationships.....And that no doubt translates to marriage and divorce.....In fact, I'll say it again, the DOJ shows that Homosexuals have a higher propensity for violence in their relationships.......That too will translate to marriage.

Until studies are done, you activists need to stop with the propoganda. Because you have zero evidence to support it......And you know it!

Possibly Bod is trying to claim that if homosexual couples are given state sanction to their relationships, that will somehow, mysteriously, have the power to decrease domestic violence. Perhaps her belief is that domestic violence is caused by a lack of state sanction to the relationship?

 

[bodecea]

How are they logical fallacies? Be specific, please.

All you have offered thus far are red herrings and straw man arguments.

You call that specific? Sorry, you will have to do better than simply say "RED HERRING!!" and "STRAWMAN!!"...you have to PROVE what is a red herring and/or a strawman. Haven't done it yet, have you?

Actually, I have...all along.

Actually, you have not. You spout talking points with no apparent understanding of their meaning. [/quote]

Such as?

Not stupid or irrelevant at all....but, if you think it's a strawman...point out how.

ROFL

Say goodnight, gracie...[/QUOTE]

Hey! Pretty clear that you can't point out squat....

FAIL debater, Uncensored. FAIL debater.

 

[Wicked Jester]

LOL, please look at the evidence dude. If a domestic violence case is reported with 2 lesbians then TWO FEMALE people are reported as female lesbian related on that ONE CASE.
If a straight couple is reported as a domestic violence then ONLY ONE female is reported in the statistics YOUR STUDY reports.
If that doesn't show you that your study is flawed, nothing will.
I believe you will see it and acknowledge that.

Bullshit, dude!

The DOJ survey was about violence among couples. It was about INDIVIDUALS reporting violence in their relationship. More lesbian INDIVIDUALS reported violence in their relationship then Hetero INDIVIDUAL females in their relationship by a large margin.......More INDIVIDUAL gay men reported violence in their relationship than INDIVIDUAL hetero men in their relationship.

Some more facts for you Wicked Jester.
This is what the study was about, the types of abuse INCLUDED in this report and the overwhelming data reveals from this study:
"The researchers found that the most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal, emotional, psychological abuse and combined emotional/psychological abuse".

Where is this violence you keep talking about?
Talk about bull shit and ignorance. You are too lazy to read your own so called "evidence".

YOUR study that YOU produced as fact is NOT EVEN PHYSICAL ABUSE.
Come on man. Something, anything, somewhere, SOME PLACE to back up your claims.
The Family Research Council did you in brother. You bought it hook, line and sinker.
Fraud.

Look up my first link. The DOJ included RAPE and PHYSICAL VIOLENCE......does that not constitute violence?

In fact, just to make it easy on' ya':

www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02

It's all in the graph......You know what a graph is?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who has said it was "never" about reproduction? It isn't NOW, today. And we NEVER prevented people from marrying who could not produce children so it is a ridiculous argument.

Some people have. One of them said so in this very thread. I was responding to them, not to your imagination.

Great. Now use your imagination and show that marriage has EVER been about procreation. When did the legal marriage laws of this country require reproduction?

Are you trying to argue in circles?