GOP introduces national right-to-work legislation

[EverCurious]

Well I apologize for making ya look bad(?)

I can't help it, I actually enjoy working. I like that sense of accomplishment, the achieving a goal, learning new tasks as I get more responsibility and trust. ~shrug~

I wish I could share it with ya so you didn't just... idk 'settle.' The view from the top is very nice heh

 

[Anathema]

Well I apologize for making ya look bad(?)

I can't help it, I actually enjoy working. I like that sense of accomplishment, the achieving a goal, learning new tasks as I get more responsibility and trust. ~shrug~

I wish I could share it with ya so you didn't just... idk 'settle.' The view from the top is very nice heh

I have no interest in the view from the top. Never gave. My father was like you and all it got him was a list of undone things in his life when he died of brain Cancer on his 54th birthday.

 

[EverCurious]

mmm sorry to hear that. I suppose if you see no value coming out then you put as little as possible in...

Alright, then I'll wish you well with your comfortable(?) middle road and hope that Trump unleashing businesses gives you some upward gain

 

[Virginia Mom]

I'm retired from Verizon, formerly known as C&P Telephone Co, & Bell Atlantic. I'm old enough to have worked through both name changes. I retired having been a union member of CWA for 39yrs.,11mos. VIrginia is right to work state. It's good to have a choice to join a union or not, but it did cause some hard feelings sometimes between the union and non union employees, especially after a strike.
They would get the exact same benefits we won without being out of work and losing pay, although there were some that stayed out too in support. The Union reps. had to represent them if they filed a grievance, the same as union members. Our layoffs or loss of jobs were done by seniority not if you were union or not. There were some folks that became members because they started feeling they should help pay for all the hard earned benefits they enjoyed like we had paid through the years. I see good and bad, and I'm glad I'm retired.

 

[EverCurious]

Yeah I think in today's day and age there is good and bad in every single thing that is done.

Still I think your statement is also a support of my idea that unions will survive it. Folks joined in because they saw the benefits of it and all. I do tend to have an 'optimistic' vein, I figure if the unions are providing a good service, people will buy. Either way, I do hope it'll work out for everyone in the end.

 

[my2¢]

The legislation puts Trump in a tight spot if it gets to his desk. It was the blue collar union folks of the rust belt that helped him win those states.

 

[reconmark]

Only in your dreams, dear.

Right to work is simply a p!loy to pay less. Be honest and come clean. Anyone with half a brain cell can easily figure this out. Just be honest. But in america honesty takes a back door to the filthy dollar. Spawn of the devil dollar that is.

“Right-to-Work” States Still Have Lower Wages
So-called right-to-work (RTW) legislation goes one step further and entitles employees to the benefits of a union contract—including the right to have the union take up their grievance if their employer abuses them—without paying any of the cost.

• Wages in RTW states are 3.1 percent lower than those in non-RTW states, after controlling for a full complement of individual demographic and socioeconomic factors as well as state macroeconomic indicators. This translates into RTW being associated with $1,558 lower annual wages for a typical full-time, full-year worker.

• The relationship between RTW status and wages remains economically and statistically significant under alternative specifications of our econometric model.

 

[August West]

Without the Unions, we would be living and working in the same conditions that existed prior to the First Great Republican Depression. And, given the orange clown's intentions, and those of the GOP, we may see that again, just before the Second Great Republican Depression.

Union's are a leftist scam , another corporate control scam they screw you while they skim your pay checks.

The $40 a month I paid for union dues was the best $40 I spent for 35 years. Retired at 54 years old with healthcare and pension. I was scammed? Someone who follows Alex Jones is too stupid to know what a scam is.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Well that depends entirely upon your skill set Anathema

It won't effect go-getters because they've the drive to get another job if shit doesn't go their way - same reason that go-getters don't need unions. I almost gauge the success of an economy by it's union participation (out side government) because if the workers are ethical and hard working, and the jobs are available, everyone ultimately profits from the situation. From what I've seen it's only when employees suck ass that they need a bully union to 'protect' them from getting shit canned, or shit on.

I've never been in a union, never once worried about being fired - I've always made sure that I am providing a service the companies don't want to let go, or at a minimum that I'm giving them with more than the other peons heh

It is actually quite simple: he is a goldbricking slacker, doing the bare minimum to not gt shit-canned, and hiding behind the skirts of a union any time he gets called on it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Well I think that kind of bolsters my argument, but hey, choices you make dear.

I wanted 'more' out of life, ya know what I mean? I could have never worked again in my twenties, but I'm 'driven' to succeed. Not just more money, but also more skills, more of my personal ideological goals being met, more things I wanted to try, and hell, more feathers for my ego heh

See, unfortunately people like you make Unions necessary for people like me. You seem like the type of person who would work a 50 hour week for 40 hours worth of salaried pay, with no OT, just because you want to show everyone how great you are.

Unfortunately, that makes those of us who show up on time, give 100% for our 40 hours and go home look like we are slacking. You Live to Work while most of us Work to Live.

Do you get what I'm talking about?

Everyone does: he has a work ethic. You do not.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Absolutely necessary and beneficial to the economy. Especially good if it includes public service unions! Expect the unions to fight this tooth and nail.

"At least 80 percent of Americans are opposed to forcing employees to pay dues as a condition of their employment, and our bill would protect workers by eliminating the forced-dues clauses in federal statute. Right-to-work states, like South Carolina, have seen first-hand that job creation and economic growth comes from expanded freedoms. We need to expand common-sense reforms, like those in the National Right to Work Act to protect American workers and create jobs," Wilson told the Washington Examiner.

More w/links @ GOP introduces national right-to-work legislation

It's about time every American is protected and guaranteed the right to work without being coerced into joining a union.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

As a Union Steward I will say this.....

ANY worker in my department who does not pay dues WILL NOT be supported, protected or represented by me, or any other Union Officer.

That's what an insurance company tells people who aren't policyholders. Imagine that.

 

[EverCurious]

Well that depends entirely upon your skill set Anathema

It won't effect go-getters because they've the drive to get another job if shit doesn't go their way - same reason that go-getters don't need unions. I almost gauge the success of an economy by it's union participation (out side government) because if the workers are ethical and hard working, and the jobs are available, everyone ultimately profits from the situation. From what I've seen it's only when employees suck ass that they need a bully union to 'protect' them from getting shit canned, or shit on.

I've never been in a union, never once worried about being fired - I've always made sure that I am providing a service the companies don't want to let go, or at a minimum that I'm giving them with more than the other peons heh

It is actually quite simple: he is a goldbricking slacker, doing the bare minimum to not gt shit-canned, and hiding behind the skirts of a union any time he gets called on it.

SHE is going to slightly disagree with you on that point, devils in the details as it were. While it is true that he's using unions to be 'mediocre' he's admitted it fair and square and that is a respectable trait for an employee of any stripe - even a 'least necessary to get by' type. Guessing here, but he likely prefers to dedicate his time to family or hobbies - this is acceptable so long as the jobs assigned to him get done; and my instinct judge of character says it does.


In this world there are leaders and there are followers, the engines and the gears, there is no dis to either type; merely the drive and desire within the heart and mind of an individual. Far more important that the gears find cogs to properly connect up to the engines to propel the nature forward - than some idea that all gears and cogs must be engines. hmm not such a good analogy I think...

Without followers there can be no leaders, and a follower who is honest, trust-worthy, and will get the job done, even if without that extra spark of enthusiasm, is still a good and worthy thing to have. Admittedly at times leaders forget how important the followers are, and unions, the original traditional unions, were kind of the reminder, the angel on the shoulder of many employer's who'd forgotten that there is a partnership between boss and employee. Yes, it is a bit of an 'uneven' partnership in that the employer, the manager or business owner, has the authority, but there must remain respect for ones employees - they are not slaves and should never be treated as such by a proper manager or business owner. By the same token the employee must also too understand that the manager or owner are not there merely to pay them, there are more things to consider than the employees paycheck. There is a balance, a natural and fair agreement that is reached between the two.

In the old days, way back, every single hire was a bit of a private discussion, it was a more intimate relationship. The ranch owner spoke to the ranch hand, they talked about the little details of how many heads of cows, where they needed to go, where the rancher had permission, or lack of permission, to run his cattle through, etc. That closeness was lost in modern employment, and it's true many businesses as they grew, the national chains as it were, lost touch with that unique relationship - not specifically through greed, but rather a weird mix of social culture and unrealistic expectations, generally by the promotion through proxy and the silly practice of placing non-leaders into management positions. I cannot count the number of companies I have advised who failed to assess their management team, just stupidly gave them the job due to seniority, and frankly how many, like Anathema here, who are quite simply not leaders and have no desire to be leaders, become so fed up with the chore of management that they basically shut down. This is unhealthy for the system because you've got a 'I don't really give a shit' failing to manage a bunch of 'I don't know what I'm doing's, or 'I don't want to be here's,' and the system falls apart - the employees have no idea what they're doing or where they are going and feed off the 'meh' of their boss, then they don't care, and the whole damn train derails. The proper promotion of employees based not on social 'equality' nor seniority is one of those things that the SJWs have seriously fucked up in America. The government has /no fucking idea/ how to run a business, yet they're going to tell you how to do it regardless - and worse they think that mere social outcry can change reality and accounting. It's rather silly.

Small businesses are, perhaps were, the perfect function of capitalism, the fair and reasonable partnership of employee and employer, the perfect balance of supply and demand, the wonderful junction of American unity that so uniquely expresses why this country was able to rise above all others and lead the entire world as the greatest nation on Earth. A lovely dance, until someone steps on their partners toes... When the government interferes in this perfection, when international corporations and box stores lose touch with this foundation, the train derails. Adjustments came first in the form of Unions, and they worked well for a while, but then they got greedy and corrupted; along with society losing touch with the delicate balance of everything that made it work. We're struggling to find that new balance in a completely different world; folks are too busy worrying about who's fault it is that they do not ever take the time to understand and work out what is needed to straighten out the tracks. I have faith that it will all work out eventually, all things naturally find balance after all, it is a law of the universe. We merely need to keep moving the gears around until we find that missing interconnection again.

Respect is the magic ingredient we've misplaced. Respect for a persons individual abilities, skills, talents, and qualities in a position. Respect for a companies individual challenges, margins, flaws, and successes. Respect for the individual, unique, and separate jobs of government and business. Respect for the trifecta quasi-replacement of union to employee to employer. And, perhaps in largest part, respect for each other as people, individuals who do not fit cookie cutter molds or needs or levels of desire.


TLDR: Business are a jigsaw puzzle; it does no good to try to force a piece where it does not fit, one must instead intuitively understand that there is a spot that every piece goes and seek it. Not everyone can be an edge piece that defines the borders, gives direction to the process, and makes completion both easier and possible, but the pieces in the center are no less important in the end; they are after all the ones which complete the picture.

 

[FJO]

I wonder if said unions decided to give people a chance to support if they wanted. I'd be very happy with unions if they did that, in fact, I could even maybe support unions as a 'good' influence instead of a 'bad' one if they'd agree to voluntary participation of their members.

That's not the way a Union works. Despite the English spelling, there is no "I" in Union. There is a "We". Take that away and suddenly the whole Union no longer works.

Imagine a workplace where 8 people supposedly have the same job. 4 of them are members of a Union, and have rules about what they can/can't do. The other 4 are not bound by those rules. How efficiently do you think that dep as recent is ing to work? Not very well, as I see it.

Let me tell youabout my experience with unions.

I was hired by a large company to work on the factory floor as part of a three men crew, knowing that my employment was at the pleasure of the company for four months, will receive no protection from the union, in spite of sending my confiscatory dues to their coffers.

About four weeks into the job I encountered a situation where I needed the help of one of my crew mates. When I called for help I was told: Fuck you, it's not my job. Meanwhile, the machine was turning waiting for the material I needed help to bring in, wasting time and losing money.

At that moment I pledged to myself never to be reliant on a fuckin union again.

Once my four months was , I applied for a job in the office. My pay was less than on the factory floor, but I was able to speak for myself, earn what I earned without some yahoo claiming to speak for me, and had the satisfaction of knowing that if I want to improve my circumstances I can rely - for better or worse - on te only person I could depend on, myself.

Out of the union, mostly on my own time, I taught myself computer programming in the now dead computer language COBOL. In time I developed a system that earned me an invitation to work in the company's head office, a company car, expense account, better pay and sefl-respect for knowing that I earned what I got, not relying on some bastards who claim to speak for me but are just as happy to slash my tires and call me scab when I crossed picket line during several strikes during my 38 years of employment.

Unions with their outrageous demands killed Detroit, Unions kill individual ambitions in the name of phony equality, that rewards the lazy at the cost of the industrious, all in the name of equality, of course.

The company i worked for closed its obsolete factory building, relocated and hired new employees who are working now without a union, earning a salary respect the company and earn the company's respect in return.

 

[Mr Natural]

Let me tell youabout my experience with unions.

Let me tell you mine.

I've never been in a union. However, I spent a the majority of my working days with a company that had unions on site. It was a large British information company (you probably know who they are). They called their unions "Guilds". And every time the "Guild" got a bump of some kind, we so called "professional staffers" also got a bump. So yes, I am a staunch supporter of labor unions.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Well that depends entirely upon your skill set Anathema

It won't effect go-getters because they've the drive to get another job if shit doesn't go their way - same reason that go-getters don't need unions. I almost gauge the success of an economy by it's union participation (out side government) because if the workers are ethical and hard working, and the jobs are available, everyone ultimately profits from the situation. From what I've seen it's only when employees suck ass that they need a bully union to 'protect' them from getting shit canned, or shit on.

I've never been in a union, never once worried about being fired - I've always made sure that I am providing a service the companies don't want to let go, or at a minimum that I'm giving them with more than the other peons heh

It is actually quite simple: he is a goldbricking slacker, doing the bare minimum to not gt shit-canned, and hiding behind the skirts of a union any time he gets called on it.

SHE is going to slightly disagree with you on that point, devils in the details as it were. While it is true that he's using unions to be 'mediocre' he's admitted it fair and square and that is a respectable trait for an employee of any stripe - even a 'least necessary to get by' type. Guessing here, but he likely prefers to dedicate his time to family or hobbies - this is acceptable so long as the jobs assigned to him get done; and my instinct judge of character says it does.

So he claims. However, he has already proven himself to be nuts, so his honestly is, at best, uncertain.

 

[Anathema]

Let me tell youabout my experience with unions......

Sounds like you let one jerk rattle you and then wasted a huge amount of time and energy (uncompensated). Not my way of doing things.

Here's my experience in non-Union professional environments. I'll preface this by saying I have a college degree in a field where most people have technical high school or tech school certificates.

After college I spent almost a year searching for a job. I finally got one with a Structural Engineering firm. I spent three years being expected to do 50+ hour weeks. Overtime was an expectation, not a request. Extended days and weekends were common. Any format of appreciation (emotional or financial) was unknown. I finally left after working a 23 hour day only to be told I had to use VACATION time to cover my shift for the next day.

I moved on to a Commercial Architect. Generally more of the same. I was expected to make the company my life. Overtime was a given. Additional tasks (computer tech and construction management related) were piled on when other employees left without additional compensation. I was laid off after almost three years when company profits dipped due to too many projects being in development (no pay) rather than design (paid work). Last in - First out as they say.

Three weeks later I landed a Contractor position with the Utility Company I'm still with. It was a 1+ year contract. I loved the job within weeks. Despite becoming an integral part of the team, it took 5 years for them to consider actually hiring me. It also took me threatening to look at leaving for another job.

In 2006, after finally being hired as a full time employee ($.50/hour raise and actual benefits), I offered to take on additional responsibilities which I felt would help me understand the business better. Less than a year later the Company introduced a new project.... the Transformation Initiative, which turned the work environment around 180 degrees. Everything was now about profits and costs. Employees were now considered liabilities rather than assets. Necessary materials to do work were now considered extravagant luxuries. After the Union contract was agreed to in early 2007, providing Union employees with significant protections from the Transformation Initiative, the Distribution Design Department asked the Company to be allowed to move forward with a Unionization campaign. In December 2007 the effort reached its required goal for Union recognition.

In April 2008 the newly Unionized Design group was prepared to sit down for negotiations. The Company left us sitting there for another 3 months. During the 10 months of negotiations, I lost all respect for the Company. Sitting there listening to their crap was probably the most enlightening thing I've ever done. We ended up being rolled into the existing Union contract rather than getting our own separate one. That was a massive victory for us, brought about by their Transformation timeline. The contract protected all of us from major problems.

In the 8 years we've officially been Union employees, we've gotten our bonuses and pay raises every year. Management employees can't say the same. They lost 25% of their workforce while we've increased ours. 2 more departments have Unionized. Another 2 have been turned over to Contractors. We've been safe and Management employees have been scared for their careers constantly.

 

[Fang]

This has always been a pretty tough subject. Both sides of this can be good, and both sides can be bad. Obviously, Unions are good because they give the worker protection and they can collectively bargain. But I've been stuck with some unqualified assholes before because they had Union backing. Not to mention Unions aren't beyond corruption either. At the end of the day, keep Unions but there's needs to be some checks and balances.

 

[Iceweasel]

I wonder if said unions decided to give people a chance to support if they wanted. I'd be very happy with unions if they did that, in fact, I could even maybe support unions as a 'good' influence instead of a 'bad' one if they'd agree to voluntary participation of their members.

That's not the way a Union works. Despite the English spelling, there is no "I" in Union. There is a "We". Take that away and suddenly the whole Union no longer works.

Imagine a workplace where 8 people supposedly have the same job. 4 of them are members of a Union, and have rules about what they can/can't do. The other 4 are not bound by those rules. How efficiently do you think that dep as recent is going to work? Not very well, as I see it.

You'll have four people working and four fat fuck union drones taking up air.

 

[Iceweasel]

Without the Unions, we would be living and working in the same conditions that existed prior to the First Great Republican Depression.

..and that's what's wrong with unions. Full of retarded scare mongering shit. Creates dead weight that thinks they are entitled.