Gun control...

[Rustic]

So how many people have been prosecuted for not using a dealer to do a private sale?

.

None that I know of around here. It's either not exactly policed heavily or we are some mighty righteous dudes and dudets. You pick one. But let one get involved in a crime and......

And nothing, there's no way to prove when the weapon changed hands without a 100% registration and you'll never get that, because criminal can't be required to register their weapons.

.

They go back to the last time that it legally changed hands. If it was legally background checked AFTER the background checks were created then they go back to that person and bust him for selling it illegally. Chances are, he's going to be very, very cooperative. And let's face it, any weapon that is owned by a criminal is illegal anyway and you have no control over except to bust him when you bag him for any and all crimes if you ever do get the chance. We do what we can do.

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

True, The 10th amendment needs to be strengthened… Moved to the state that suits you.
There’s a reason why I don’t live in crazy Cali....

 

[Daryl Hunt]

So how many people have been prosecuted for not using a dealer to do a private sale?

.

None that I know of around here. It's either not exactly policed heavily or we are some mighty righteous dudes and dudets. You pick one. But let one get involved in a crime and......

And nothing, there's no way to prove when the weapon changed hands without a 100% registration and you'll never get that, because criminal can't be required to register their weapons.

.

They go back to the last time that it legally changed hands. If it was legally background checked AFTER the background checks were created then they go back to that person and bust him for selling it illegally. Chances are, he's going to be very, very cooperative. And let's face it, any weapon that is owned by a criminal is illegal anyway and you have no control over except to bust him when you bag him for any and all crimes if you ever do get the chance. We do what we can do.

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

Firearm registration is unconstitutional

The only one bringing up Firearm Registration for anything other than Extremeness Firearms is you trying to scare small children. Get back on topic for a change. There are no small children here for you to scare.

 

[Rustic]

None that I know of around here. It's either not exactly policed heavily or we are some mighty righteous dudes and dudets. You pick one. But let one get involved in a crime and......

And nothing, there's no way to prove when the weapon changed hands without a 100% registration and you'll never get that, because criminal can't be required to register their weapons.

.

They go back to the last time that it legally changed hands. If it was legally background checked AFTER the background checks were created then they go back to that person and bust him for selling it illegally. Chances are, he's going to be very, very cooperative. And let's face it, any weapon that is owned by a criminal is illegal anyway and you have no control over except to bust him when you bag him for any and all crimes if you ever do get the chance. We do what we can do.

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

And of course that wrecks what little gun control we could have. States rights are the worst thing for progress and fairness there is...

Getting rid of states rights will get rid of the little freedom we have left...
Fuck that shit

 

[Rustic]

No amount of frivolous gun control laws would’ve done anything about this latest shooting

yeah it would have

Na, not really

yeah, really

Irrelevant

irrational....

Are you willing to give up your beer or whiskey and your guns?

Bad association....

There are so many loopholes in the background check system it is ridiculous and the mental health system is not involved and doesn't exist for all practical purposes

One of the things that we tried to get through our state government was the inclusion of the mental health into the background checks

This dude had been cleared by the shrinks this year, they said he didn't need treatment. Now what?

the MH community could well be a hedge against all these shootings , as well as suicides. Yes they drop the ball now/then, but i'd wager them effective if considered.

Laws that prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms and prohibit the possession of handguns are un-Constitutional and in violation of the Second Amendment – the states have no ‘right’ to enact such laws.

you should check out vermont carry

~S~

... in your opinion

 

[Daryl Hunt]

None that I know of around here. It's either not exactly policed heavily or we are some mighty righteous dudes and dudets. You pick one. But let one get involved in a crime and......

And nothing, there's no way to prove when the weapon changed hands without a 100% registration and you'll never get that, because criminal can't be required to register their weapons.

.

They go back to the last time that it legally changed hands. If it was legally background checked AFTER the background checks were created then they go back to that person and bust him for selling it illegally. Chances are, he's going to be very, very cooperative. And let's face it, any weapon that is owned by a criminal is illegal anyway and you have no control over except to bust him when you bag him for any and all crimes if you ever do get the chance. We do what we can do.

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

True, The 10th amendment needs to be strengthened… Moved to the state that suits you.
There’s a reason why I don’t live in crazy Cali....

And yet the gun regulation that banned the AR-15 and high capacity mags seemed to have kept the body count down. He had to settle for a 1911A1 with 10 shot mags instead of an AR-15 with 30 shot mags. Where you live that law may or may not be needed but in a high population area it is needed and it saved a whole bunch of lives on this one. Yah, I know, 12 innocents lost their lives but had he had easy access to an AR (like we do here) or a high capacity Mag like you do where you are at the innocent body count could have been over 100 with the skill of the shooter.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No amount of frivolous gun control laws would’ve done anything about this latest shooting

yeah it would have

Na, not really

yeah, really

Irrelevant

irrational....

Are you willing to give up your beer or whiskey and your guns?

Bad association....

There are so many loopholes in the background check system it is ridiculous and the mental health system is not involved and doesn't exist for all practical purposes

One of the things that we tried to get through our state government was the inclusion of the mental health into the background checks

This dude had been cleared by the shrinks this year, they said he didn't need treatment. Now what?

the MH community could well be a hedge against all these shootings , as well as suicides. Yes they drop the ball now/then, but i'd wager them effective if considered.

Laws that prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms and prohibit the possession of handguns are un-Constitutional and in violation of the Second Amendment – the states have no ‘right’ to enact such laws.

you should check out vermont carry

~S~

... in your opinion

In my opinion as well. And in the Opinion of many of the Federal Courts as well. YOUR opinion stands alone on this one.

 

[Rustic]

They go back to the last time that it legally changed hands. If it was legally background checked AFTER the background checks were created then they go back to that person and bust him for selling it illegally. Chances are, he's going to be very, very cooperative. And let's face it, any weapon that is owned by a criminal is illegal anyway and you have no control over except to bust him when you bag him for any and all crimes if you ever do get the chance. We do what we can do.

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

Unless the law where you live violates a fundamental right, in which case you don’t have to move; you get it invalidated by the courts.

With rights come responsibilities, including “states’ rights” – where the states have the responsibility to enact laws and measures consistent with the Constitution, laws that do not violate the inalienable rights of American citizens who happen to reside within a given state.

Otherwise, the states are at liberty to regulate firearms consistent with Second Amendment case law.

Assault weapon bans, UCBs, and magazine capacity restrictions are all perfectly Constitutional regulatory measures which in no manner ‘violate’ the Second Amendment; a firearm regulatory measure isn’t un-Constitutional until the Supreme Court says it is.

Laws that prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms and prohibit the possession of handguns are un-Constitutional and in violation of the Second Amendment – the states have no ‘right’ to enact such laws.

I agree states should have more of a “say” than the federal government, No state should be able to tell another state what to do.
Firearm registration is never in the right... It is absolutely unconstitutional

And outside of extraordinary weapons, when have I EVER said that we need Gun Registration? In fact, I haven't seen one person in here bring that up except for you trying to scare small children with it. I promote universal background checks which are NOT gun registrations. Get back on topic for a change.

We already have background checks, everyone I sell a firearm to Has to go through a background check it takes 2 to 4 minutes minutes… Entirely too long though it should take seconds. With the technology we have now

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And nothing, there's no way to prove when the weapon changed hands without a 100% registration and you'll never get that, because criminal can't be required to register their weapons.

.

They go back to the last time that it legally changed hands. If it was legally background checked AFTER the background checks were created then they go back to that person and bust him for selling it illegally. Chances are, he's going to be very, very cooperative. And let's face it, any weapon that is owned by a criminal is illegal anyway and you have no control over except to bust him when you bag him for any and all crimes if you ever do get the chance. We do what we can do.

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

And of course that wrecks what little gun control we could have. States rights are the worst thing for progress and fairness there is...

Getting rid of states rights will get rid of the little freedom we have left...
Fuck that shit

Well, or crude one, you seem to be the only one that believes that anyone wishes to get rid of state's rights. You are a party of one in here.

 

[Rustic]

And nothing, there's no way to prove when the weapon changed hands without a 100% registration and you'll never get that, because criminal can't be required to register their weapons.

.

They go back to the last time that it legally changed hands. If it was legally background checked AFTER the background checks were created then they go back to that person and bust him for selling it illegally. Chances are, he's going to be very, very cooperative. And let's face it, any weapon that is owned by a criminal is illegal anyway and you have no control over except to bust him when you bag him for any and all crimes if you ever do get the chance. We do what we can do.

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

True, The 10th amendment needs to be strengthened… Moved to the state that suits you.
There’s a reason why I don’t live in crazy Cali....

And yet the gun regulation that banned the AR-15 and high capacity mags seemed to have kept the body count down. He had to settle for a 1911A1 with 10 shot mags instead of an AR-15 with 30 shot mags. Where you live that law may or may not be needed but in a high population area it is needed and it saved a whole bunch of lives on this one. Yah, I know, 12 innocents lost their lives but had he had easy access to an AR (like we do here) or a high capacity Mag like you do where you are at the innocent body count could have been over 100 with the skill of the shooter.

The Best selling rifle/firearm in South Dakota is the ar15 by a longshot… It has given us no problems whatsoever.
It’s a very good sporting rifle for hunting varmits

 

[Daryl Hunt]

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

Unless the law where you live violates a fundamental right, in which case you don’t have to move; you get it invalidated by the courts.

With rights come responsibilities, including “states’ rights” – where the states have the responsibility to enact laws and measures consistent with the Constitution, laws that do not violate the inalienable rights of American citizens who happen to reside within a given state.

Otherwise, the states are at liberty to regulate firearms consistent with Second Amendment case law.

Assault weapon bans, UCBs, and magazine capacity restrictions are all perfectly Constitutional regulatory measures which in no manner ‘violate’ the Second Amendment; a firearm regulatory measure isn’t un-Constitutional until the Supreme Court says it is.

Laws that prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms and prohibit the possession of handguns are un-Constitutional and in violation of the Second Amendment – the states have no ‘right’ to enact such laws.

I agree states should have more of a “say” than the federal government, No state should be able to tell another state what to do.
Firearm registration is never in the right... It is absolutely unconstitutional

And outside of extraordinary weapons, when have I EVER said that we need Gun Registration? In fact, I haven't seen one person in here bring that up except for you trying to scare small children with it. I promote universal background checks which are NOT gun registrations. Get back on topic for a change.

We already have background checks, everyone I sell a firearm to Hass to go through a background check it takes 2 to 4 minutes minutes… Entirely too long though it should take seconds. With the technology we have now

Unlike here, you don't require firearm background checks for private or gun show sales. Until that is done, the dealer background checks are just an empty gesture.

 

[Rustic]

No amount of frivolous gun control laws would’ve done anything about this latest shooting

yeah it would have

Na, not really

yeah, really

Irrelevant

irrational....

Are you willing to give up your beer or whiskey and your guns?

Bad association....

There are so many loopholes in the background check system it is ridiculous and the mental health system is not involved and doesn't exist for all practical purposes

One of the things that we tried to get through our state government was the inclusion of the mental health into the background checks

This dude had been cleared by the shrinks this year, they said he didn't need treatment. Now what?

the MH community could well be a hedge against all these shootings , as well as suicides. Yes they drop the ball now/then, but i'd wager them effective if considered.

Laws that prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms and prohibit the possession of handguns are un-Constitutional and in violation of the Second Amendment – the states have no ‘right’ to enact such laws.

you should check out vermont carry

~S~

... in your opinion

In my opinion as well. And in the Opinion of many of the Federal Courts as well. YOUR opinion stands alone on this one.

Lol
Trump is nominating judges that don’t meddle in second amendment rights...

 

[Rustic]

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

Unless the law where you live violates a fundamental right, in which case you don’t have to move; you get it invalidated by the courts.

With rights come responsibilities, including “states’ rights” – where the states have the responsibility to enact laws and measures consistent with the Constitution, laws that do not violate the inalienable rights of American citizens who happen to reside within a given state.

Otherwise, the states are at liberty to regulate firearms consistent with Second Amendment case law.

Assault weapon bans, UCBs, and magazine capacity restrictions are all perfectly Constitutional regulatory measures which in no manner ‘violate’ the Second Amendment; a firearm regulatory measure isn’t un-Constitutional until the Supreme Court says it is.

Laws that prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms and prohibit the possession of handguns are un-Constitutional and in violation of the Second Amendment – the states have no ‘right’ to enact such laws.

I agree states should have more of a “say” than the federal government, No state should be able to tell another state what to do.
Firearm registration is never in the right... It is absolutely unconstitutional

And outside of extraordinary weapons, when have I EVER said that we need Gun Registration? In fact, I haven't seen one person in here bring that up except for you trying to scare small children with it. I promote universal background checks which are NOT gun registrations. Get back on topic for a change.

We already have background checks, everyone I sell a firearm to Hass to go through a background check it takes 2 to 4 minutes minutes… Entirely too long though it should take seconds. With the technology we have now

Unlike here, you don't require firearm background checks for private or gun show sales. Until that is done, the dealer background checks are just an empty gesture.

The vast majority of firearm sales in South Dakota are through dealerships… Not gun shows

 

[Rustic]

They go back to the last time that it legally changed hands. If it was legally background checked AFTER the background checks were created then they go back to that person and bust him for selling it illegally. Chances are, he's going to be very, very cooperative. And let's face it, any weapon that is owned by a criminal is illegal anyway and you have no control over except to bust him when you bag him for any and all crimes if you ever do get the chance. We do what we can do.

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

And of course that wrecks what little gun control we could have. States rights are the worst thing for progress and fairness there is...

Getting rid of states rights will get rid of the little freedom we have left...
Fuck that shit

Well, or crude one, you seem to be the only one that believes that anyone wishes to get rid of state's rights. You are a party of one in here.

Lol
The federal Government pretty much disregards the 10th amendment anymore

 

[Daryl Hunt]

They go back to the last time that it legally changed hands. If it was legally background checked AFTER the background checks were created then they go back to that person and bust him for selling it illegally. Chances are, he's going to be very, very cooperative. And let's face it, any weapon that is owned by a criminal is illegal anyway and you have no control over except to bust him when you bag him for any and all crimes if you ever do get the chance. We do what we can do.

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

True, The 10th amendment needs to be strengthened… Moved to the state that suits you.
There’s a reason why I don’t live in crazy Cali....

And yet the gun regulation that banned the AR-15 and high capacity mags seemed to have kept the body count down. He had to settle for a 1911A1 with 10 shot mags instead of an AR-15 with 30 shot mags. Where you live that law may or may not be needed but in a high population area it is needed and it saved a whole bunch of lives on this one. Yah, I know, 12 innocents lost their lives but had he had easy access to an AR (like we do here) or a high capacity Mag like you do where you are at the innocent body count could have been over 100 with the skill of the shooter.

The Best selling rifle/firearm in South Dakota is the ar15 by a longshot… It has given us no problems whatsoever.
It’s a very good sporting rifle for hunting varmits

1. You need to prove that it's the #1 selling rifle/firearm in SD. Around here (and this is the deep red part of the state) they would have to give the ARs away. They sit on the shelves, gather dust just look ugly. Maybe we don't scare like little children like you do where you live.

2. I can think of a number of much better varmint rifles and much better calibers as well for varmints. You can stop selling now. No one is going to be buying from you in here.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

And of course that wrecks what little gun control we could have. States rights are the worst thing for progress and fairness there is...

Getting rid of states rights will get rid of the little freedom we have left...
Fuck that shit

Well, or crude one, you seem to be the only one that believes that anyone wishes to get rid of state's rights. You are a party of one in here.

Lol
The federal Government pretty much disregards the 10th amendment anymore

The last time the 10th amendment was disregarded was under Reagan for the Brady Bill. And that ran out in 1998. Lately, all rulings have sided with the State and the Individual. Show me where your statement of where the 10th amendment regarding firearms have been disregarded by the Federal Government since 1998.

 

[Rustic]

We should make the punishment worse for having an illegal gun.

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

True, The 10th amendment needs to be strengthened… Moved to the state that suits you.
There’s a reason why I don’t live in crazy Cali....

And yet the gun regulation that banned the AR-15 and high capacity mags seemed to have kept the body count down. He had to settle for a 1911A1 with 10 shot mags instead of an AR-15 with 30 shot mags. Where you live that law may or may not be needed but in a high population area it is needed and it saved a whole bunch of lives on this one. Yah, I know, 12 innocents lost their lives but had he had easy access to an AR (like we do here) or a high capacity Mag like you do where you are at the innocent body count could have been over 100 with the skill of the shooter.

The Best selling rifle/firearm in South Dakota is the ar15 by a longshot… It has given us no problems whatsoever.
It’s a very good sporting rifle for hunting varmits

1. You need to prove that it's the #1 selling rifle/firearm in SD. Around here (and this is the deep red part of the state) they would have to give the ARs away. They sit on the shelves, gather dust just look ugly. Maybe we don't scare like little children like you do where you live.

2. I can think of a number of much better varmint rifles and much better calibers as well for varmints. You can stop selling now. No one is going to be buying from you in here.

Lol
I can’t keep them in shock there are two military bases near here… With a constant influx of recruits.
I sell Smith and Wesson M&P 15s for under $500, The vast majority of my customers are military folk.
You can’t beat a .223 for Prairie dogs and coyotes/fox’s... Unlimited animals to shoot
Short action/no recoil/ammo abundant in grocery stores, convenient stores, hardware you name it/Accurate/etc... It’s a great sporting rifle

 

[Rustic]

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

And of course that wrecks what little gun control we could have. States rights are the worst thing for progress and fairness there is...

Getting rid of states rights will get rid of the little freedom we have left...
Fuck that shit

Well, or crude one, you seem to be the only one that believes that anyone wishes to get rid of state's rights. You are a party of one in here.

Lol
The federal Government pretty much disregards the 10th amendment anymore

The last time the 10th amendment was disregarded was under Reagan for the Brady Bill. And that ran out in 1998. Lately, all rulings have sided with the State and the Individual. Show me where your statement of where the 10th amendment regarding firearms have been disregarded by the Federal Government since 1998.

They are sure trying... Hopefully the nomination of judges on trumps part continues.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

That is up to the State. And some Cities are really harsh on it. It's not a 2nd amendment thing, it's States Rights. Too many get those two confused. As one Federal Appeals Judge once said, "If you don't like the laws where you are, MOVE".

True, The 10th amendment needs to be strengthened… Moved to the state that suits you.
There’s a reason why I don’t live in crazy Cali....

And yet the gun regulation that banned the AR-15 and high capacity mags seemed to have kept the body count down. He had to settle for a 1911A1 with 10 shot mags instead of an AR-15 with 30 shot mags. Where you live that law may or may not be needed but in a high population area it is needed and it saved a whole bunch of lives on this one. Yah, I know, 12 innocents lost their lives but had he had easy access to an AR (like we do here) or a high capacity Mag like you do where you are at the innocent body count could have been over 100 with the skill of the shooter.

The Best selling rifle/firearm in South Dakota is the ar15 by a longshot… It has given us no problems whatsoever.
It’s a very good sporting rifle for hunting varmits

1. You need to prove that it's the #1 selling rifle/firearm in SD. Around here (and this is the deep red part of the state) they would have to give the ARs away. They sit on the shelves, gather dust just look ugly. Maybe we don't scare like little children like you do where you live.

2. I can think of a number of much better varmint rifles and much better calibers as well for varmints. You can stop selling now. No one is going to be buying from you in here.

Lol
I can’t keep them in shock there are two military bases near here… With a constant influx of recruits.
I sell Smith and Wesson M&P 15s for under $500, The vast majority of my customers are military folk.
You can’t beat a .223 for Prairie dogs and coyotes/fox’s... Unlimited animals to shoot
Short action/no recoil/ammo abundant in grocery stores, convenient stores, hardware you name it/Accurate... It’s a great sporting rifle

You can stop selling now. We won't buy your guns. Or if you are selling cars or anything else.

 

[Rustic]

True, The 10th amendment needs to be strengthened… Moved to the state that suits you.
There’s a reason why I don’t live in crazy Cali....

And yet the gun regulation that banned the AR-15 and high capacity mags seemed to have kept the body count down. He had to settle for a 1911A1 with 10 shot mags instead of an AR-15 with 30 shot mags. Where you live that law may or may not be needed but in a high population area it is needed and it saved a whole bunch of lives on this one. Yah, I know, 12 innocents lost their lives but had he had easy access to an AR (like we do here) or a high capacity Mag like you do where you are at the innocent body count could have been over 100 with the skill of the shooter.

The Best selling rifle/firearm in South Dakota is the ar15 by a longshot… It has given us no problems whatsoever.
It’s a very good sporting rifle for hunting varmits

1. You need to prove that it's the #1 selling rifle/firearm in SD. Around here (and this is the deep red part of the state) they would have to give the ARs away. They sit on the shelves, gather dust just look ugly. Maybe we don't scare like little children like you do where you live.

2. I can think of a number of much better varmint rifles and much better calibers as well for varmints. You can stop selling now. No one is going to be buying from you in here.

Lol
I can’t keep them in shock there are two military bases near here… With a constant influx of recruits.
I sell Smith and Wesson M&P 15s for under $500, The vast majority of my customers are military folk.
You can’t beat a .223 for Prairie dogs and coyotes/fox’s... Unlimited animals to shoot
Short action/no recoil/ammo abundant in grocery stores, convenient stores, hardware you name it/Accurate... It’s a great sporting rifle

You can stop selling now. We won't buy your guns. Or if you are selling cars or anything else.

Lol

 

[Skull Pilot]

Reasons to own guns

1 People kill people
2 People have always killed people
3 People will always kill people