Gun owner...first shot kills homem invader...literally, his first shot...

[Brain357]

No I am saying that having to reload helped the concealed carry guy in stopping him

No, from the story...the concealed carry guy having a gun stopped him...and if there had been more people with guns then he could have been stopped sooner since he can't shoot in all directions at once...

Notice...no one tackled him when he reloaded...

I am arguing about hi cap magazines. If everyone from all direction start shooting at him in a crowded bar what you think is going to happen? How soon before nobody knows who the bad guy is anymore? Instead we have one good guy who stopped the shooter after reload. Clearly the bad guy would have shot less if he didn't have a hi cap magazine. And we should want the bad guy to shoot less. The good guy did not need a hi cap magazine.

 

[Brain357]

Here is a look at how many people are killed when the police stop a mass shooter vs. how many are saved when people at the scene stop the attacker...

Auditing Shooting Rampage Statistics - Daily Anarchist

The average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police is 14.29

The average number of people killed in a mass shooting when stopped by a civilian is 2.33

You seem to be arguing something else. Unless one of these guys needed a hi cap magazine to stop the shooter.

 

[2aguy]

How soon before nobody knows who the bad guy is anymore? Instead we have one good guy who stopped the shooter after reload. Clearly the bad guy would have shot less if he didn't have a hi cap magazine.

Sorry, you are wrong...you do not know what kind of gun or what kind of magazine, if any he had...he could have had a revolver with a speed loader or he could have put the rounds in by hand...you don't know...

 

[Brain357]

How soon before nobody knows who the bad guy is anymore? Instead we have one good guy who stopped the shooter after reload. Clearly the bad guy would have shot less if he didn't have a hi cap magazine.

Sorry, you are wrong...you do not know what kind of gun or what kind of magazine, if any he had...he could have had a revolver with a speed loader or he could have put the rounds in by hand...you don't know...

Did you read your own link?
According to witnesses, Villagomez at some point stopped to reload his high-capacity handgun and began shooting again when he was shot and killed by another patron - a 48-year-old Reno man who had a valid concealed weapons permit.

 

[2aguy]

A standard magazine is not the issue...as shown in the examples above...people are not going to naturally charge a man with a gun even when he reloads...they don't have the time...

that it has happened does not prove your case, only that in life or death choices, people will do anything to try to save their lives...and sometimes that means they will risk their life charging a man with a gun...but in almost all cases...they have no time to charge the guy because the magazine change is too fast...and then they are even closer to the shooter when he starts shooting...

You want to make sure the good guys are out gunned by the bad guys...these mass shooters plan their attacks for months, sometimes they nurse grudges and plan for years...they break the law to do these mass shootings and if they decide that they want 30 round magazines for their moment of glory, they will get those magazines, you can't stop that no matter what law you pass...

But you can disarm the law abiding, innocent people...if you pass your stupid magazine ban, they will give up their 30 round magazines...and they will be out gunned by the killers...because no one knows how many bullets will be needed to stop an attacker...and when you see incidents where the attacker takes 14 hits, with 6 fatal hits, and keeps attacking...you have no right to say a standard magazine is not needed...

You do not know how many rounds you will need at the start of a violent criminal assault...and it is not your right to tell a law abiding citizen with a constitutional right to have a gun how many bullets they can carry in the weapon...

 

[2aguy]

Brain, to repeat...you do not know what make or model of gun he used...and neither does the reporter...journalists know even less about guns than you do...so until you know what gun it was you can't say if it had a standard magazine or not...

 

[2aguy]

Well Brain...you are finished...I have here a gun fight, caught on video...with sound...and there are multiple shooters, shooting over 10 rounds...it is on video so you have to believe it actually happened...right...

again...you never know how many rounds you need before a shooting starts...

 

[2aguy]

Ah...youtube...it just might put this stupid argument about magazine capacity to rest...

Here is a video...the clerk shoots all 5 rounds, missing...and his gun is dry...had the criminals decided to fight...he would have been dead...

You never know how many rounds you will need to stop the violent criminal..

The statement about being out of ammo comes in at the 2:08 mark...

 

[2aguy]

Sooo...you are in your home and enjoying your day...when a gun fight between police and a mexican drug cartel break out in your neighborhood...as happened here in Texas...hmmmmm....I don't think anyone heard about this shootout in the national media....I sure as hell didn't and I follow these things...it was an ambush of a drug truck by car loads of mexican cartel members...and they weren't stingy on the bullets....

Soooo...as the police and the killers shoot it out....of course there is no way these guys fleeing from police could ever possibly end up trying to use your home to escape...right...and since they are mexican drug cartel members...and do get whatever guns and magazines they want...you would be outgunned if they tried to get into your home....and you will be the one who has to releoad...not them..



Again....why wasn't this in the national media....I never heard about this shooting, did anyone else.......



Hmmmmm...one of the suspects was caught in a parking lot of a nearby apartment complex....so of course a law abiding citizen would never have to worry about defending themselves from a violent drug cartel member...who has whatever guns he wants...but the law abiding citizen would be limited by people like Brain...

 

[2aguy]

Youtube to the rescue...from these anti gunner irrational people...

Here is a video collection of gun fights...at the 46 second mark you see a clerk in a typical gun fight...within 10 feet, both people shooting and missing...because of the effects of adrenaline and fear of being shot...so they are hiding behind cover...multiple shots are fired...and the criminals are fighting back...so Brain would limit the clerk to 5 rounds...when it is obvious that more than that is not only possible but likely to be needed to save his life...but Brain wants to force this guy...facing 2 robbers shooting at him, to have to reload...

Tell me...if you are this clerk...do you want to have to count how many bullets, out of 5, you have before you need to try to reload, at close range to an active shooter...?



at the 1:18 mark...the defender fires at least 10 shots....looks like 13 rounds...

Then you have a criminal who advocates gun control...

 

[Brain357]

Well Brain...you are finished...I have here a gun fight, caught on video...with sound...and there are multiple shooters, shooting over 10 rounds...it is on video so you have to believe it actually happened...right...

again...you never know how many rounds you need before a shooting starts...

This looks like a bunch of criminals in a gang fight. Lots of opportunities for people to get hit by strays. That is what you want?

 

[2aguy]

At 5:41...3 armed robbers start shooting this guy...and he gets hit 4 times and still manages to shoot back...so tell him he can only have 5 bullets to fight against 3 men...

The interesting thing...in most of these stories they don't report how many shots are fired...you have to watch and try to count the bullets...which shows, Brain, you really don't have any idea how many shots are fired in these incidents...

 

[2aguy]

Wow....here are all the stories that don't make natioanal news...stories I haven't heard about...

 

[2aguy]

This looks like a bunch of criminals in a gang fight. Lots of opportunities for people to get hit by strays. That is what you want?

No, I want good people to shoot these guys before they kill innocent people...you want to disarm the good people by saying they can only have 5 bullets...did it look like these guys would worry about having illegal magazines in their guns...? And yet...you only want them to have those magazines...and the drug cartels...you want this killing to happen because you want the good guys disarmed, and outgunned...

 

[Brain357]

Well Brain...you are finished...I have here a gun fight, caught on video...with sound...and there are multiple shooters, shooting over 10 rounds...it is on video so you have to believe it actually happened...right...

again...you never know how many rounds you need before a shooting starts...

I can't believe you even posted this one. The best thing would be if these morons didn't have any guns. Look at all the bullets going everywhere. Are you trying to support me again with what I have been saying about strays? Cause that is exactly what you did.

 

[2aguy]

Wow, I almost let you get away Brain...you said no one ever needs more than 10 rounds...I have video evidence that you are wrong...video evidence that you did not see on the national news...with the local report more than likely not reporting on the number of shots fired...

Your argument is done Brain...you can't know how many shots a good person will need...the video evidence shows you are wrong...

 

[Brain357]

Ah...youtube...it just might put this stupid argument about magazine capacity to rest...

Here is a video...the clerk shoots all 5 rounds, missing...and his gun is dry...had the criminals decided to fight...he would have been dead...

You never know how many rounds you will need to stop the violent criminal..

The statement about being out of ammo comes in at the 2:08 mark...

Those guys ran like hell when he pulled his gun. Having a hi cap magazine would have made no difference.

 

[Brain357]

Sooo...you are in your home and enjoying your day...when a gun fight between police and a mexican drug cartel break out in your neighborhood...as happened here in Texas...hmmmmm....I don't think anyone heard about this shootout in the national media....I sure as hell didn't and I follow these things...it was an ambush of a drug truck by car loads of mexican cartel members...and they weren't stingy on the bullets....

Soooo...as the police and the killers shoot it out....of course there is no way these guys fleeing from police could ever possibly end up trying to use your home to escape...right...and since they are mexican drug cartel members...and do get whatever guns and magazines they want...you would be outgunned if they tried to get into your home....and you will be the one who has to releoad...not them..



Again....why wasn't this in the national media....I never heard about this shooting, did anyone else.......



Hmmmmm...one of the suspects was caught in a parking lot of a nearby apartment complex....so of course a law abiding citizen would never have to worry about defending themselves from a violent drug cartel member...who has whatever guns he wants...but the law abiding citizen would be limited by people like Brain...

Do you know who the zetas are? This is more gangs.

 

[2aguy]

I can't believe you even posted this one. The best thing would be if these morons didn't have any guns. Look at all the bullets going everywhere. Are you trying to support me again with what I have been saying about strays? Cause that is exactly what you did.

Brain, now that your argument is toast, let me explain the obvious...if you were in that bar...and these multiple attackers came in and started shooting...do you want 5 bullets or a standard magazine in your gun...since they didn't run away and kept shooting...multiple attackers...all shooting...and you want any good guy in the bar limited to 5 rounds...since you say it only takes one or two to get the job done...

You said provide evidence of needing more than 10 rounds...I have...you are wrong....

 

[Brain357]

Youtube to the rescue...from these anti gunner irrational people...

Here is a video collection of gun fights...at the 46 second mark you see a clerk in a typical gun fight...within 10 feet, both people shooting and missing...because of the effects of adrenaline and fear of being shot...so they are hiding behind cover...multiple shots are fired...and the criminals are fighting back...so Brain would limit the clerk to 5 rounds...when it is obvious that more than that is not only possible but likely to be needed to save his life...but Brain wants to force this guy...facing 2 robbers shooting at him, to have to reload...

Tell me...if you are this clerk...do you want to have to count how many bullets, out of 5, you have before you need to try to reload, at close range to an active shooter...?



at the 1:18 mark...the defender fires at least 10 shots....looks like 13 rounds...

Then you have a criminal who advocates gun control...

I don't see any value in this one. Either the criminals run like hell when a defender pulls a gun or I see defenders shooting without even aiming. Sorry but that is just dumb.