Gun owner...first shot kills homem invader...literally, his first shot...

[2aguy]

All of these shootings you said didn't exist Brain...concealed carry permit holders shooting bad guys in robberies...and none of these stories made it into the national news....all of these stories...you too Joe, and Zeke and Atticus...story after story of people stopping these violent criminals...on video...that you can't say doesn't exist...

I love the internet and youtube...anti gunners must hate it though...

I am going to the movies now..have a nice weekend...nice debate Brain357...

 

[Brain357]

The guys with the AK ran in shot a few times then ran away. What difference does it make whether someone inside had a 20 rd mag or a 10?

Brain, do you think through what you are saying...you are trying to say there is no way, ever, never, ever, that some innocent person could have encountered this guy as he was entering or leaving that place...and that they would have had to exchange fire with him....that is what you are saying...that that would be completely inconceivable in your world...really?

If they had encountered the one guy then 10 rds should be more than enough. We have seen several examples that have proved that. If he is going to empty a 20 rd mag trying to take this guy down then he is endangering everyone around and shouldn't have a gun in the first place.

 

[Brain357]

I have shown at least 3...you don't want to acknowledge them because your argument is done...

I haven't noticed one. Please point out the first where the person NEEDED a hi cap magazine and I'll look at it again.

 

[2aguy]

And that pro 2nd amendment supporters is how you deal with anti gunner irrational arguments...never give up...eventually you can find answers to their irrational beliefs...especially in the age of the internet...

It is also why I continue in debates with guys like Brain 357 ( who seems like a really nice guy) and zeke and joe and atticus...because it always digs up more info. to destroy their arguments...

Because of this debate...16 pages long...we now have a new tool for the debate...youtube...

 

[Brain357]

All of these shootings you said didn't exist Brain...concealed carry permit holders shooting bad guys in robberies...and none of these stories made it into the national news....all of these stories...you too Joe, and Zeke and Atticus...story after story of people stopping these violent criminals...on video...that you can't say doesn't exist...

I love the internet and youtube...anti gunners must hate it though...

I am going to the movies now..have a nice weekend...nice debate Brain357...

You don't know these didn't make it into the news. Some of your videos were from the news. I have argued that they don't happen 2.5 million times a year. Do you have 2.5 million videos of ones that happened in the same year? I have never denied they happen, just not very often.

 

[Brain357]

And that pro 2nd amendment supporters is how you deal with anti gunner irrational arguments...never give up...eventually you can find answers to their irrational beliefs...especially in the age of the internet...

It is also why I continue in debates with guys like Brain 357 ( who seems like a really nice guy) and zeke and joe and atticus...because it always digs up more info. to destroy their arguments...

Because of this debate...16 pages long...we now have a new tool for the debate...youtube...

You have youtube, but not one of those videos is a defender losing because they didn't have a hi cap magazine. Most of the time the criminals seem to run like hell when a defender pulls a gun.

While we are sometimes on the same side in these discussions I think you'll find me joe, zeke, and atticus also disagree on a lot when it comes to guns.

 

[turtledude]

that doesn't prove anything moron

Sorry but real examples of actual events prove a lot more than well your nothing that you have brought so far.

you cannot prove there will never be a time when someone needs more than 10 rounds

that alone destroys your argument

as I said, you are dishonest and beneath contempt

so you should be laughed at for your cowardly evasions

You are worried about the one person who might possibly one day need that hi cap magazine. I am looking to save actual lives in the mass shootings we know happen and the gang shooting we know happen. The real world trumps your fantasy.

no you aren't. you are trying to troll and harass gun owners

only a moron thinks murderers will obey a gun control law

and since you cannot prove your proposed restrictions are narrowly tailored to achieve a demonstrable good, your suggestion fails

Criminals will use whatever guns are easy to get. Now it is hi cap semi autos. Ban hi cap magazines and they will use 10 rd magazines. If you doubt it look at that CA mass shooter who used 10 rd magazines because that is the norm in CA. There is your proof.

so you are essentially arguing for banning all guns. that is the only logical conclusion of your rant. ban all guns and criminals won't have any that are "easy to get"

 

[Brain357]

Sorry but real examples of actual events prove a lot more than well your nothing that you have brought so far.

you cannot prove there will never be a time when someone needs more than 10 rounds

that alone destroys your argument

as I said, you are dishonest and beneath contempt

so you should be laughed at for your cowardly evasions

You are worried about the one person who might possibly one day need that hi cap magazine. I am looking to save actual lives in the mass shootings we know happen and the gang shooting we know happen. The real world trumps your fantasy.

no you aren't. you are trying to troll and harass gun owners

only a moron thinks murderers will obey a gun control law

and since you cannot prove your proposed restrictions are narrowly tailored to achieve a demonstrable good, your suggestion fails

Criminals will use whatever guns are easy to get. Now it is hi cap semi autos. Ban hi cap magazines and they will use 10 rd magazines. If you doubt it look at that CA mass shooter who used 10 rd magazines because that is the norm in CA. There is your proof.

so you are essentially arguing for banning all guns. that is the only logical conclusion of your rant. ban all guns and criminals won't have any that are "easy to get"

No I am not. If we banned guns the defenders we have discussed wouldn't be able to do that now would they? But they didn't need a hi cap magazine so I don't see any reason to keep them available for criminals.

 

[turtledude]

you cannot prove there will never be a time when someone needs more than 10 rounds

that alone destroys your argument

as I said, you are dishonest and beneath contempt

so you should be laughed at for your cowardly evasions

You are worried about the one person who might possibly one day need that hi cap magazine. I am looking to save actual lives in the mass shootings we know happen and the gang shooting we know happen. The real world trumps your fantasy.

no you aren't. you are trying to troll and harass gun owners

only a moron thinks murderers will obey a gun control law

and since you cannot prove your proposed restrictions are narrowly tailored to achieve a demonstrable good, your suggestion fails

Criminals will use whatever guns are easy to get. Now it is hi cap semi autos. Ban hi cap magazines and they will use 10 rd magazines. If you doubt it look at that CA mass shooter who used 10 rd magazines because that is the norm in CA. There is your proof.

so you are essentially arguing for banning all guns. that is the only logical conclusion of your rant. ban all guns and criminals won't have any that are "easy to get"

No I am not. If we banned guns the defenders we have discussed wouldn't be able to do that now would they? But they didn't need a hi cap magazine so I don't see any reason to keep them available for criminals.

its already illegal for criminals to have them moron

 

[2aguy]

You are having a bad debate day Brain....a story where they counted the shots fired by the defender...

Armed Robber Shoots Store Owner in the Leg Store Owner Then Shoots Robber 10 Times

I believe, in over 1,000 defensive gun use stories that we’ve documented, this one has the highest number of rounds on target.

How many times....say again....?

The owner fired 10-13 shots at the suspect, hitting him at least 10 times.

The suspect was declared dead on the scene.

Hmmmm...something tells me the owner did not have to reload during the attack because he had a standard magazine in his weapon...

 

[Brain357]

You are worried about the one person who might possibly one day need that hi cap magazine. I am looking to save actual lives in the mass shootings we know happen and the gang shooting we know happen. The real world trumps your fantasy.

no you aren't. you are trying to troll and harass gun owners

only a moron thinks murderers will obey a gun control law

and since you cannot prove your proposed restrictions are narrowly tailored to achieve a demonstrable good, your suggestion fails

Criminals will use whatever guns are easy to get. Now it is hi cap semi autos. Ban hi cap magazines and they will use 10 rd magazines. If you doubt it look at that CA mass shooter who used 10 rd magazines because that is the norm in CA. There is your proof.

so you are essentially arguing for banning all guns. that is the only logical conclusion of your rant. ban all guns and criminals won't have any that are "easy to get"

No I am not. If we banned guns the defenders we have discussed wouldn't be able to do that now would they? But they didn't need a hi cap magazine so I don't see any reason to keep them available for criminals.

its already illegal for criminals to have them moron

You claim to be old, but you always resort to childish name calling. How odd. Illegal for a felons to have them yes. A criminal can however get them very easily, hence the problem.

 

[turtledude]

no you aren't. you are trying to troll and harass gun owners

only a moron thinks murderers will obey a gun control law

and since you cannot prove your proposed restrictions are narrowly tailored to achieve a demonstrable good, your suggestion fails

Criminals will use whatever guns are easy to get. Now it is hi cap semi autos. Ban hi cap magazines and they will use 10 rd magazines. If you doubt it look at that CA mass shooter who used 10 rd magazines because that is the norm in CA. There is your proof.

so you are essentially arguing for banning all guns. that is the only logical conclusion of your rant. ban all guns and criminals won't have any that are "easy to get"

No I am not. If we banned guns the defenders we have discussed wouldn't be able to do that now would they? But they didn't need a hi cap magazine so I don't see any reason to keep them available for criminals.

its already illegal for criminals to have them moron

You claim to be old, but you always resort to childish name calling. How odd. Illegal for a felons to have them yes. A criminal can however get them very easily, hence the problem.

just like dope and smack

and you are either too dishonest or too stupid to understand that your argument is basically one for banning all legally owned guns

and I have nothing but contempt for dishonest assholes who want to restrict our rights while lying about their true motivations

 

[2aguy]

A criminal can however get them very easily, hence the problem.

Yeah, exactly...they can get them because they break the law...so any ban will not work...ask the drug cartels if they will have a problem...or the gangs...or the mass shooters who plan months to years in advance...

 

[Brain357]

You are having a bad debate day Brain....a story where they counted the shots fired by the defender...

Armed Robber Shoots Store Owner in the Leg Store Owner Then Shoots Robber 10 Times

I believe, in over 1,000 defensive gun use stories that we’ve documented, this one has the highest number of rounds on target.

How many times....say again....?

The owner fired 10-13 shots at the suspect, hitting him at least 10 times.

The suspect was declared dead on the scene.

Hmmmm...something tells me the owner did not have to reload during the attack because he had a standard magazine in his weapon...

Now it appears he shot him at least 11 times. Do you have some reason to believe he had to shoot him 11 times? The criminal is clearly dead so how do you know 5 wouldn't have done it, but the guy just kept firing anyway? I'm not convinced he had to shoot him so many times. Now if he had shot the criminal 11 times and was then killed by the criminal you would have a very good argument. But he successfully defended himself and if he had placed his shots well 11 would not be necessary. But the guy was probably dead after 5. If he really had to hit him 11 times then the guy should spend more time at the range.

 

[Brain357]

Criminals will use whatever guns are easy to get. Now it is hi cap semi autos. Ban hi cap magazines and they will use 10 rd magazines. If you doubt it look at that CA mass shooter who used 10 rd magazines because that is the norm in CA. There is your proof.

so you are essentially arguing for banning all guns. that is the only logical conclusion of your rant. ban all guns and criminals won't have any that are "easy to get"

No I am not. If we banned guns the defenders we have discussed wouldn't be able to do that now would they? But they didn't need a hi cap magazine so I don't see any reason to keep them available for criminals.

its already illegal for criminals to have them moron

You claim to be old, but you always resort to childish name calling. How odd. Illegal for a felons to have them yes. A criminal can however get them very easily, hence the problem.

just like dope and smack

and you are either too dishonest or too stupid to understand that your argument is basically one for banning all legally owned guns

and I have nothing but contempt for dishonest assholes who want to restrict our rights while lying about their true motivations

Again, I have not said anything about banning all guns. Stop making things up.

 

[Brain357]

A criminal can however get them very easily, hence the problem.

Yeah, exactly...they can get them because they break the law...so any ban will not work...ask the drug cartels if they will have a problem...or the gangs...or the mass shooters who plan months to years in advance...

The mass shooter in CA didn't use hi cap magazines. He used what is easy to get in CA.

 

[turtledude]

so you are essentially arguing for banning all guns. that is the only logical conclusion of your rant. ban all guns and criminals won't have any that are "easy to get"

No I am not. If we banned guns the defenders we have discussed wouldn't be able to do that now would they? But they didn't need a hi cap magazine so I don't see any reason to keep them available for criminals.

its already illegal for criminals to have them moron

You claim to be old, but you always resort to childish name calling. How odd. Illegal for a felons to have them yes. A criminal can however get them very easily, hence the problem.

just like dope and smack

and you are either too dishonest or too stupid to understand that your argument is basically one for banning all legally owned guns

and I have nothing but contempt for dishonest assholes who want to restrict our rights while lying about their true motivations

Again, I have not said anything about banning all guns. Stop making things up.

most gun banners deny being gun banners

if they admit that-they are seen as scum. so they deny being gun banners while only supporting the next step towards a ban

but if we use your "logic" we have to conclude you support a gun ban

why?

1) you have proven that the rights of gun owners mean nothing to you

2) you have claimed restricting or banning lawful gun owners from owning say
12 round magazines will keep criminals from getting them


3( thus you support banning firearms because

a) it will keep or at least restrict criminals from getting them

b) its deleterious impact on honest people matters not

and since you think keeping criminals from more easily obtaining 15 shot magazines is beneficial, you must certainly believe the same thing about handguns

 

[turtledude]

A criminal can however get them very easily, hence the problem.

Yeah, exactly...they can get them because they break the law...so any ban will not work...ask the drug cartels if they will have a problem...or the gangs...or the mass shooters who plan months to years in advance...

The mass shooter in CA didn't use hi cap magazines. He used what is easy to get in CA.

using that logic, you want to ban all firearms because you think that would prevent mass shooters from getting any weapons

BTW can you establish he would have killed more with 40 round magazines

 

[2aguy]

Now it appears he shot him at least 11 times. Do you have some reason to believe he had to shoot him 11 times?

You don't study the research into gun fights and you really need to if you are going to discuss this topic...when you are engaged in a fight...one that is life or death...your body dumps adrenaline into your system to get ready for the fight...it shuts out pain, reduces your vision and blocks your hearing...all so that you can focus solely on the threat...because of this, once you begin shooting...you do not realize how many times you have fired your weapon...there are countless times where cops in particular are asked how many times they shot their gun...they think it was a few times when they actually emptied their weapons...because they couldn't tell because of the adrenaline dump...

One of my instructors played around with this with other instructors and students....they told the guy on the firing line to count how many shots he fired...they then began stressing him with shouting, yelling...may have even used an air horn...then they presented the target and he started shooting...

They asked him after they called cease fire how many times he had fired...he said 5 or 6...they told him...you emptied your gun...he couldn't believe it...also...they asked him if he heard the air horn they blasted by his ear...he said they were joking, no one did that...they then showed him the video and as he is shooting, one of the instructors sounded an air horn by his head...he didn't hear it...

Another dynamic involved in a gun fight...when you are shot...you do not always collapse from the bullet hitting you...especially, but not solely, if the hit is not to your center of mass or your brain...you keep standing...and since you are standing, and the shooters vision has gone to tunnel vision, they don't always know they have hit you...and you could still be shooting even after being hit 14 times in the one shooting and 17 in the other shooting...

So 11 rounds in a gun fight hitting someone is not unusual...

 

[turtledude]

Lots of shots fired at CLOSE RANGE not to far from where I live so I have seen this video dozens of time

all misses