Gunny's Thread on Religion

[JenT]

By copy editing out the parts they dont like , like you do with the haddith.

I don't believe it's a coincidence that the "parts they don't like" happen to be known inaccuracies and misconceptions. Similarly, ahadith I reject are those that are out of harmony with the message of the Qur'an.

Muir attributes his story in the foot notes Ishaq, Tabari.
Without Al Sira Tabari Buhkari nothing can be known of Mohammad or Islam.

All of the essentials of Islam are contained in the Qur'an. All other works are peripheral and of secondary importance.

The isnad for them is stronger than the Quran itself.

The Qur'an has no isnad. It was narrated by Muhammad and recorded directly.

According to a Yale assistant professor, you're flat wrong. The Sira is as important in the Middle East as the Quran and Hadith, the Quran is just more well known in the west.

 

[Kalam]

According to a Yale assistant professor, you're flat wrong.

Fascinating.

Fallacy: Appeal to Authority

The Sira is as important in the Middle East as the Quran and Hadith, the Quran is just more well known in the west.

Source? I take it you've conducted or examined research to corroborate this statement, and I would be interested in seeing it. Thank you.

 

[Kalam]

I think it bears repeating that "kalam's" proof consists mainly of a commentary whose main thrust that has been lifted in part, leaving out the entire main part of Muir's argument and the scriptural evidence.
Paraphrasing some moot question about Mohammad and Islam as if that were Muir's position,
Simply shameful and should bring into question the intellectual and academic power and honesty of muslims in general and of the mutz cult in particular.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1388843-post692.html
Handcrafting history for political purposes

BUSTED

Your attempts at criticism are becoming increasingly desperate and far-fetched. This is a good sign.

 

[Kalam]

By the way, jent, I eagerly anticipate your responses to my points on the other thread.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I think it bears repeating that "kalam's" proof consists mainly of a commentary whose main thrust that has been lifted in part, leaving out the entire main part of Muir's argument and the scriptural evidence.
Paraphrasing some moot question about Mohammad and Islam as if that were Muir's position,
Simply shameful and should bring into question the intellectual and academic power and honesty of muslims in general and of the mutz cult in particular.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1388843-post692.html
Handcrafting history for political purposes

BUSTED

Your attempts at criticism are becoming increasingly desperate and far-fetched. This is a good sign.

You have to stay something ,so of course it must be fact free and an insult.
Thanks for staying true to form.
Nothing you can say changes the fact the author you were quoting to make your argument, wrote it in a manner met to mislead by using partial out of context quotes.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1390371-post716.html

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

According to a Yale assistant professor, you're flat wrong.

Fascinating.

Fallacy: Appeal to Authority

[

Not necessarily .
She may be in a position to know .Quoting a person in a position to know something on a topic is not a logical fallacy .

 

[Kalam]

You have to stay something ,so of course it must be fact free and an insult.

Your posts don't warrant much more than that in response.

Thanks for staying true to form.
Nothing you can say changes the fact the author you were quoting to make your argument, wrote it in a manner met to mislead by using partial out of context quotes.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1390371-post716.html

You're acting as if M. Ali's entire argument is based on an opinion of Muir's when, in fact, he merely quotes Muir in partial agreement. This is known as a "strawman argument," my friend, and it doesn't fly with me.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

You have to stay something ,so of course it must be fact free and an insult.

Your posts don't warrant much more than that in response.

Thanks for staying true to form.
Nothing you can say changes the fact the author you were quoting to make your argument, wrote it in a manner met to mislead by using partial out of context quotes.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1390371-post716.html

You're acting as if M. Ali's entire argument is based on an opinion of Muir's when, in fact, he merely quotes Muir in partial agreement. This is known as a "strawman argument," my friend, and it doesn't fly with me.

Im not your friend .You were hoisted on your own petard.
Muir was never in any kind of agreement , he was perfecting the other side of the argument to show how ridicules those arguments were.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1390371-post716.html

 

[Kalam]

Im not your friend .

I'm trying my best to hold back the tears.

You were hoisted on your own petard.
Muir was never in any kind of agreement , he was perfecting the other side of the argument to show how ridicules those arguments were.

I doubt that. I've read enough of Muir's Life to know that while he tended to be very critical of Islam and presented information in a biased manner, even he seems to have believed that Muhammad was well-meaning before he began amassing a great deal of political power. His propagation of the Satanic Verses lie has been duly noted, I am aware that he coined the term in the first place. As I said, that does not by any means make it true.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Im not your friend .

I'm trying my best to hold back the tears.

You were hoisted on your own petard.
Muir was never in any kind of agreement , he was perfecting the other side of the argument to show how ridicules those arguments were.

I doubt that.

Don't

I've read enough of Muir's Life to know that while he tended to be very critical of Islam and presented information in a biased manner, even he seems to have believed that Muhammad was well-meaning before he began amassing a great deal of political power. His propagation of the Satanic Verses lie has been duly noted, I am aware that he coined the term in the first place. As I said, that does not by any means make it true.

That is not the point, the point is the writer MM Ali is a dishonest writer a liar, who you use to shore up your positions.
He is a fraud and that is that.
His tafsir cannot be trusted, His Quran cannot be trusted, and you cannot be trusted.

 

[Intense]

I've not encountered anyone who has an interest in attacking religious belief simply because they consider it irrational or baseless; many beliefs retain such elements. It's because religious belief has traditionally primarily adopted the role of the basis of an openly hierarchical institution (the Roman Catholic inquisition, excessively theocratic Islamic states today, etc.), or the basis of other negative influences that have the effect of causing intrusions into non-religious elements of life, as noted by the cartoon, that there is opposition.

It's a sad thing to say but there have been more people killed on planet Earth in the name of God than for any other reason.

That is a totally false statement.

Tens of millions of people were killed in both WWI and WWII. And it had zero to do with religion.

Also, tens of millions of people were killed and murdered during both the Russian and Chineese communist revolutions and subsequent takeovers.

And again, it had zero to do with religion, because the revolutions were led by secular atheists.

I think Totalitarianism is the number one killer. I'm religious, I believe in God, I learn from the Prophets, whom, were not so well liked by the masses. I believe Salvation to be Individual and Personal. Talking amongst ourselves ain't by itself going to change a thing.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why did this thread devolve into arguments on islam? I mean its like its just a two person discussion now...

 

[Kalam]

That is not the point,

That was your point, and it's incorrect.

the point is the writer MM Ali is a dishonest writer a liar,

This has not been demonstrated. The Maulana's works, especially his Qur'an, are superior to almost all other modern writings on the religion by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. They are well-sourced as well. You're attempting (and, yet again, failing) to soil his reputation so that you won't have to confront the realities he presents in his works.

who you use to shore up your positions.

My positions are shored up by the Qur'an. His writings are useful because we happen to be in agreement on a number of issues.

He is a fraud and that is that.

Wrong.

The only fraudulent things in this thread are the opinions of the radical Wahhabis you slobber over.

His tafsir cannot be trusted, His Quran cannot be trusted, and you cannot be trusted.

It's truly pitiful to see a discussant's argument enter the throes of death - nonsensical accusations of dishonesty, among other things, tend to be thrown out. Ironically, you've managed to peddle even more dishonesty and idiocy in your short tenure here than some of this forum's most seasoned morons. Thanks for playing, though.

 

[Kalam]

Why did this thread devolve into arguments on islam? I mean its like its just a two person discussion now...

Because Fitnah has a pathological need to attack my religion and I feel compelled to defend it. I'm truly sorry that we've all but run this thread into the ground.

 

[DiveCon]

Why did this thread devolve into arguments on islam? I mean its like its just a two person discussion now...

i'm kinda surprised Gunny has allowed it
should have this moved into its own thread

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

That is not the point,

That was your point, and it's incorrect.

the point is the writer MM Ali is a dishonest writer a liar,

This has not been demonstrated. The Maulana's works, especially his Qur'an, are superior to almost all other modern writings on the religion by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. They are well-sourced as well. You're attempting (and, yet again, failing) to soil his reputation so that you won't have to confront the realities he presents in his works.


My positions are shored up by the Qur'an. His writings are useful because we happen to be in agreement on a number of issues.

He is a fraud and that is that.

Wrong.

The only fraudulent things in this thread are the opinions of the radical Wahhabis you slobber over.

His tafsir cannot be trusted, His Quran cannot be trusted, and you cannot be trusted.

It's truly pitiful to see a discussant's argument enter the throes of death - nonsensical accusations of dishonesty, among other things, tend to be thrown out. Ironically, you've managed to peddle even more dishonesty and idiocy in your short tenure here than some of this forum's most seasoned morons. Thanks for playing, though.

The post stands.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1390371-post716.html
This concludes the topic.

 

[Kalam]

The post stands.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1390371-post716.html
This concludes the topic.

It's as flaccid as the rest of your arguments.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why did this thread devolve into arguments on islam? I mean its like its just a two person discussion now...

i'm kinda surprised Gunny has allowed it
should have this moved into its own thread

Gunny has alot to do. Its not causing any problems. im just surprised no one else is saying anything.

 

[JBeukema]

Why did this thread devolve into arguments on islam? I mean its like its just a two person discussion now...

i'm kinda surprised Gunny has allowed it
should have this moved into its own thread

Gunny has alot to do. Its not causing any problems. im just surprised no one else is saying anything.

One does not step between two men during a pissing contest...

 

[Avatar4321]

One does not step between two men during a pissing contest...

True, but it doesnt mean people dont sit on the other side of the room discussing other things.