Zone1 have you been baptized?

[Blues Man]

No, I don't confuse them at all. If intelligence were never made manifest then logic, math and chemistry would have never been discovered but that does not mean they did not exist. It only means they were not made manifest. They would have still been there waiting to be discovered.

Of course you do.

And there was no math or chemistry floating around in the air to be discovered. There were no hidden tomes on math and chemistry stashed away by your god to be found.

All that existed was the world as we can perceive it and math physics and chemistry are the ways we invented to describe what we saw.

If an alien intelligence perceives the universe differently than us there math and sciences will be different than ours.

 

[ding]

Of course you do.

And there was no math or chemistry floating around in the air to be discovered. There were no hidden tomes on math and chemistry stashed away by your god to be found.

All that existed was the world as we can perceive it and math physics and chemistry are the ways we invented to describe what we saw.

If an alien intelligence perceives the universe differently than us there math and sciences will be different than ours.

It's all mind stuff. And for that reason deeply mysterious and beyond your ability to comprehend.

 

[Blues Man]

It's all mind stuff. And for that reason deeply mysterious and beyond your ability to comprehend.

Or yours it seems.

You actually think there are minds floating around in the ether.

It's just one more god of the gaps explanations that you love so much.

How did humans get math? God invented it and allowed humans to find it

You can't even hear how utterly stupid that statement is can you?

 

[ding]

Or yours it seems.

You actually think there are minds floating around in the ether.

It's just one more god of the gaps explanations that you love so much.

How did humans get math? God invented it and allowed humans to find it

You can't even hear how utterly stupid that statement is can you?

No, I believe that what exists has always existed and is unchanging and beyond anything we can possibly comprehend and that it must be beyond energy and matter; i.e. the source of everything. The closest I can come to perceiving it is consciousness without form.

You don't possess the intellect to have this conversation. And that's why you see this as stupid. You don't have beliefs. You have argument against others having beliefs. As such, you lead a sad existence as do all "rock throwers" who are incapable of describing what something is and can only throw rocks at others who can.

 

[Blues Man]

No, I believe that what exists has always existed and is unchanging and beyond anything we can possibly comprehend and that it must be beyond energy and matter; i.e. the source of everything. The closest I can come to perceiving it is consciousness without form.

You don't possess the intellect to have this conversation. And that's why you see this as stupid. You don't have beliefs. You have argument against others having beliefs. As such, you lead a sad existence as do all "rock throwers" who are incapable of describing what something is and can only throw rocks at others who can.

You're a walking talking billboard for the Dunning Kruger effect

And you like to think you know things you really don't know

The god theory is no more proven than the singularity theory

It's nothing but our best guess and not a very well informed best guess at that since we mere mortals barely understand 5% of the known universe and nothing of the unknown universe which we have to admit exists.

But in that 5% you absolutely know everything there is to know about the inception of the universe

The fact of the matter is that we really won't know for certain how the universe came to be unless we can know what happened before it came to be and there is absolutely no way we can know that

 

[ding]

You're a walking talking billboard for the Dunning Kruger effect

How so?

 

[ding]

And you like to think you know things you really don't know

Like what?

 

[ding]

The god theory is no more proven than the singularity theory

I don't believe you know what a singularity is. Because it isn't a theory. It is a mathematical condition.

God isn't a theory. God is every extant attribute of reality. We can prove extant attributes of reality exists. It's actually quite easy to do.

 

[ding]

It's nothing but our best guess and not a very well informed best guess at that since we mere mortals barely understand 5% of the known universe and nothing of the unknown universe which we have to admit exists.

But in that 5% you absolutely know everything there is to know about the inception of the universe

The fact of the matter is that we really won't know for certain how the universe came to be unless we can know what happened before it came to be and there is absolutely no way we can know that

God is transcendent so there is no direct evidence for God. But there is plenty of indirect evidence for a creator and that would be what he created which can be studied and examined. Which is what I have done. What have YOU done besides criticizing what I have done?

 

[Zebra]

majority of 8 ….. another christian

 

[Mr Natural]

I believe I was. But it was a long time ago and I was very young at the time so who knows?

 

[Blues Man]

How so?

figure it out yourself after all you solved the puzzle of the inception of the universe so this should be easy

 

[Blues Man]

God is transcendent so there is no direct evidence for God. But there is plenty of indirect evidence for a creator and that would be what he created which can be studied and examined. Which is what I have done. What have YOU done besides criticizing what I have done?

And isn;t that convenient.

The only indirect evidence is that we think there was a time before the universe as we know it came to be. There is no evidence of a god. Until we actually know what happened the second BEFORE the universe came to be we will never know with absolute certainty how the universe came to be,

all our paltry knowledge of matter and energy breaks down the further back we try to extrapolate to what we think is the inception of the universe is.

So you make up stuff to explain it.

If you stopped there you'd be a simple deist but you don't stop there you make up a personality for the god you say is the cause then you actually believe that god jumped into the womb of a virgin was born and walked the earth and that you can talk to it and that god can be your friend you can't see how utterly stupid that is.

 

[Blues Man]

I don't believe you know what a singularity is. Because it isn't a theory. It is a mathematical condition.

God isn't a theory. God is every extant attribute of reality. We can prove extant attributes of reality exists. It's actually quite easy to do.

One that we can't really prove because all our "universal" laws of physics break down just like they do in black holes.

And yes your god is nothing but a theory and all the religious dogma you attach to is it a fiction

 

[Blues Man]

God is transcendent so there is no direct evidence for God. But there is plenty of indirect evidence for a creator and that would be what he created which can be studied and examined. Which is what I have done. What have YOU done besides criticizing what I have done?

No we don't

All our so called laws of physics break down as you approach infinite hotness and infinite density.

And supposition cannot be examined that's why you have to have faith.

 

[ding]

figure it out yourself after all you solved the puzzle of the inception of the universe so this should be easy

That's just like you to make unsupported allegations.

 

[ding]

And isn;t that convenient.

The only indirect evidence is that we think there was a time before the universe as we know it came to be. There is no evidence of a god. Until we actually know what happened the second BEFORE the universe came to be we will never know with absolute certainty how the universe came to be,

all our paltry knowledge of matter and energy breaks down the further back we try to extrapolate to what we think is the inception of the universe is.

So you make up stuff to explain it.

If you stopped there you'd be a simple deist but you don't stop there you make up a personality for the god you say is the cause then you actually believe that god jumped into the womb of a virgin was born and walked the earth and that you can talk to it and that god can be your friend you can't see how utterly stupid that is.

The indirect evidence for the existence of God is all around and in you. God can be known through the light of human reason. Just not yours.

 

[ding]

One that we can't really prove because all our "universal" laws of physics break down just like they do in black holes.

And yes your god is nothing but a theory and all the religious dogma you attach to is it a fiction

Ummmm... the math says they breakdown because they yield infinite density. It's literally a limitation of the mathematics what other laws are you referring to?

God gives reality to the universe, and makes it not merely a hypothetical or possible universe, but an actually existing universe. He does not supply energy, as a match does to an explosive, he supplies reality. God supplies this reality equally to every part of the universe — all events at all times and places.

 

[Blues Man]

That's just like you to make unsupported allegations.

Look it up and figure it out.

 

[Blues Man]

Ummmm... the math says they breakdown because they yield infinite density. It's literally a limitation of the mathematics.

God gives reality to the universe, and makes it not merely a hypothetical or possible universe, but an actually existing universe. He does not supply energy, as a match does to an explosive, he supplies reality. God supplies this reality equally to every part of the universe — all events at all times and places.

And we're back to the god of the gaps