Have you guys survived the Great Government shutdown of 2018?

[forkup]

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

The beaners came way before that.

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

Oh....and what about the $26 billion that gets sent back to mehico alone? The total for all countries is $138 billion.
Money that should be spent in the local economy and feed our tax coffers.
Yeah....thats real good for America.
Liberals are fuken dunces.

Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

No they dont contribute to the economy.
They are a net loss.
We could build four walls in a year's worth of remittance monies.

Lol, intellectual dishonesty indeed. Having a job does contribute to the economy. Paying sales, local,and federal taxes in a lot of cases does contribute. Buying products and services does contribute. Denying it, means you have no interest in having an honest conversation.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

WRONG.

Do you realize how many hospitals have been put out of business because of II?

WRONG!!

hospitals put out of business by illegal immigrants - Yahoo Search Results

He was speaking of Fed Employees...not illegal immigrants.

 

[forkup]

Displaced low wage earners were a result of illegal immigrants? You have studies to support that? It had nothing to do with for instance, increased pressure from low wage countries? Increased automation of production? And no I don't advocate lowering wages. I advocate upping the minimum wage. The Trump administration is touting employment figures that come down to full employment. Full employment means that there are jobs that are not getting filled. Jobs that aren't getting filled are detrimental to the economy. Do you know what the interaction of those forces mean on the cost of immigration? Neither do I. The point is, that it's not as straightforward as you might think. A wall sounds like a good idea because it's decisive. Common sense though says that if a person is willing to leave the place they grew up. Walk, in some cases thousands of miles to an uncertain future in a country that especially under Trump makes abundantly clear that they are not welcome. A wall will not deter them either.

WRONG!!
hospitals put out of business by illegal immigrants - Yahoo Search Results

First result, first paragraph.
The INS crackdown along the Mexico-US border is driving thousands of would-be illegal immigrants to cross in remote desert areas, where the harsh conditions send many to nearby US hospitals. But the government won’t pay for their care, saddling already strapped rural hospitals with billions of dollars in unpaid bills.
They blame the consequences of the crackdown. And the lack of taking responsibility of the federal government.

INS...........LOL

I checked that article ........it's from 2000

The link was provided by someone trying to make a point to me. Blame him for his sourcing.

Well it's a freaking old link...............doesn't belong here. Unless this is a history forum.......

Ok that means the point he was trying to make is invalid. Good.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The beaners came way before that.

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad

Oh....and what about the $26 billion that gets sent back to mehico alone? The total for all countries is $138 billion.
Money that should be spent in the local economy and feed our tax coffers.
Yeah....thats real good for America.
Liberals are fuken dunces.

Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

No they dont contribute to the economy.
They are a net loss.
We could build four walls in a year's worth of remittance monies.

Lol, intellectual dishonesty indeed. Having a job does contribute to the economy. Paying sales, and federal taxes in a lot of cases does contribute. Buying products and services does contribute. Denying it, means you have no interest in having an honest conversation.

What about the $138 billion?
And no the beaners are not paying federal taxes.
Hell,half the country pays nothing in taxes.

 

[eagle1462010]

WRONG!!
hospitals put out of business by illegal immigrants - Yahoo Search Results

First result, first paragraph.
The INS crackdown along the Mexico-US border is driving thousands of would-be illegal immigrants to cross in remote desert areas, where the harsh conditions send many to nearby US hospitals. But the government won’t pay for their care, saddling already strapped rural hospitals with billions of dollars in unpaid bills.
They blame the consequences of the crackdown. And the lack of taking responsibility of the federal government.

INS...........LOL

I checked that article ........it's from 2000

The link was provided by someone trying to make a point to me. Blame him for his sourcing.

Well it's a freaking old link...............doesn't belong here. Unless this is a history forum.......

Ok that means the point he was trying to make is invalid. Good.

Using 2000 data is BS .........that would be correct.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I do.
All of America's youth.
We used to mow lawns for money or work in fast food.
Those jobs also taught our youth the value of a buck and why it's so important to better yourself and aim higher.
Oh well,fuck em eh?

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

The beaners came way before that.

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad

I do.
All of America's youth.
We used to mow lawns for money or work in fast food.
Those jobs also taught our youth the value of a buck and why it's so important to better yourself and aim higher.
Oh well,fuck em eh?

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

Oh....and what about the $26 billion that gets sent back to mehico alone? The total for all countries is $138 billion.
Money that should be spent in the local economy and feed our tax coffers.
Yeah....thats real good for America.
Liberals are fuken dunces.

Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

If they have kids, they get free shit. They get food stamps and medical care for their kids. The average cost per capita to teach kids is about 12 grand a year. If they have three kids in school, that's 36 K each year.

If they are poor (which is most likely the case) all they really do is purchase food and contribute very little to our economy.

 

[forkup]

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad
They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

No they dont contribute to the economy.
They are a net loss.
We could build four walls in a year's worth of remittance monies.

Lol, intellectual dishonesty indeed. Having a job does contribute to the economy. Paying sales, and federal taxes in a lot of cases does contribute. Buying products and services does contribute. Denying it, means you have no interest in having an honest conversation.

What about the $138 billion?
And no the beaners are not paying federal taxes.
Hell,half the country pays nothing in taxes.

What about the 138 billion? A lot of Americans travel abroad spending money there. Does that mean they don't contribute to the economy in the US. Give me a NET assessment taking both cost and contribution of illegal immigration to the economy as a whole. Not, Oh look they send money out of country, that means they are taking the wealth out of the country. It's a dishonest argument because it fixates on a single cost without even trying to consider the complete picture.

 

[justoffal]

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

The beaners came way before that.

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

Oh....and what about the $26 billion that gets sent back to mehico alone? The total for all countries is $138 billion.
Money that should be spent in the local economy and feed our tax coffers.
Yeah....thats real good for America.
Liberals are fuken dunces.

Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

If they have kids, they get free shit. They get food stamps and medical care for their kids. The average cost per capita to teach kids is about 12 grand a year. If they have three kids in school, that's 36 K each year.

If they are poor (which is most likely the case) all they really do is purchase food and contribute very little to our economy.

Yep it's the FSA... FREE...SHIT...ARMY.

Jo

 

[forkup]

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

The beaners came way before that.

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

Oh....and what about the $26 billion that gets sent back to mehico alone? The total for all countries is $138 billion.
Money that should be spent in the local economy and feed our tax coffers.
Yeah....thats real good for America.
Liberals are fuken dunces.

Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

If they have kids, they get free shit. They get food stamps and medical care for their kids. The average cost per capita to teach kids is about 12 grand a year. If they have three kids in school, that's 36 K each year.

If they are poor (which is most likely the case) all they really do is purchase food and contribute very little to our economy.

I'm sorry you think education of kids is an undue burden on you. I even mentioned another one, emergency care. We can just let them all die and deny a service which has been deemed essential to children for ..... I don't know call it 120 years. So you don't think being employed contributes? Our any solicitude to children is warranted?

 

[justoffal]

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

The beaners came way before that.

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

Oh....and what about the $26 billion that gets sent back to mehico alone? The total for all countries is $138 billion.
Money that should be spent in the local economy and feed our tax coffers.
Yeah....thats real good for America.
Liberals are fuken dunces.

Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

If they have kids, they get free shit. They get food stamps and medical care for their kids. The average cost per capita to teach kids is about 12 grand a year. If they have three kids in school, that's 36 K each year.

If they are poor (which is most likely the case) all they really do is purchase food and contribute very little to our economy.

Exxxxactly! This is why it is time to eliminate payroll taxes and go consumption tax.

Jo

 

[justoffal]

The beaners came way before that.

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad

Oh....and what about the $26 billion that gets sent back to mehico alone? The total for all countries is $138 billion.
Money that should be spent in the local economy and feed our tax coffers.
Yeah....thats real good for America.
Liberals are fuken dunces.

Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

If they have kids, they get free shit. They get food stamps and medical care for their kids. The average cost per capita to teach kids is about 12 grand a year. If they have three kids in school, that's 36 K each year.

If they are poor (which is most likely the case) all they really do is purchase food and contribute very little to our economy.

I'm sorry you think education of kids is an undue burden on you. I even mentioned another one, emergency care. We can just let them all die and deny a service which has been deemed essential to children for ..... I don't know call it 120 years. So you don't think being employed contributes? Our any solicitude to children is warranted?

Fuck you.... The care is not free asshole...
Dedicate your own life to the cause...
Not someone else's. Unless you are a full time volunteer you're a hypocrite.

There is a better way to do this.

Jo

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Since the Democrats are the ones that refuses to fund some of the useless parts of the government then I am a Democrat now. Solidarity Brother! Lets show that mean ole Orange Man that we really don't need such a bloated government. Right on!

The dems know the wall is, as you say, useless when it comes to stopping illegal aliens. The Cheeto is the one holding up the show

Not according to the border patrol asshole.
Or according to the people who live on the border.

Jo

This wall was mined , electrified in places, patrolled by dogs and military style units in the hundreds of thousands, had guard towers and was continuous. Guess what, people still found a way through. What do you think to accomplish here? And more importantly why. Do you know ANYBODY who is ever been fired and replaced by an illegal immigrant?

I do.
All of America's youth.
We used to mow lawns for money or work in fast food.
Those jobs also taught our youth the value of a buck and why it's so important to better yourself and aim higher.
Oh well,fuck em eh?

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

Or it's that parents just hand kids money today unlike our parents did years ago. If you want money, get it the way I did........work.

I remember the very first video game that came out back in the early 70's. It was table tennis. It cost 50 bucks for the machine. We saved all our money for months to buy the thing, and that all it was--one game in black and white.

 

[forkup]

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad
They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

If they have kids, they get free shit. They get food stamps and medical care for their kids. The average cost per capita to teach kids is about 12 grand a year. If they have three kids in school, that's 36 K each year.

If they are poor (which is most likely the case) all they really do is purchase food and contribute very little to our economy.

I'm sorry you think education of kids is an undue burden on you. I even mentioned another one, emergency care. We can just let them all die and deny a service which has been deemed essential to children for ..... I don't know call it 120 years. So you don't think being employed contributes? Our any solicitude to children is warranted?

Fuck you.... The care is not free asshole...
Dedicate your own life to the cause...
Not someone else's.

There is a better way to do this.

Jo

No it's not free. Yet I don't particularly think that money is more important then showing basic human decency. You do, I don't mind. Luckily most people tend to agree with my point of view.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A good secure wall will not stop 100% of the shitheads from coming here and signing up for welfare and voting Democrats but it will stop a lot of them and make it more difficult and that is a good thing. It will also make it easier for the Border Patrol to do its job than the almost nothing that we have now. That is also a good thing.

Only an asshole or a filthy Democrat looking to get Illegals to provide a welfare queen voting base to would be against securing our border.

Define a good secure border? At a bargain price of call it 50 Billion not including maintenance, you would have a barrier, breachable by the simple expediency of putting up a ladder. It takes an army to completely secure 2000 miles of border that is also not included in the cost. Again what is the point? I've yet to see even a definitive study that illegal immigration in itself is detrimental to the economy. By all means try to secure a border. But a physical barrier is nothing more then a big symbol of ineptitude not to say stupidity.

Displaced low wage earners---which is exactly what we saw in Florida during the 90s and in Chicago and in many places in the South. So, basically what you are advocating for is lowering wages.

Displaced low wage earners were a result of illegal immigrants? You have studies to support that? It had nothing to do with for instance, increased pressure from low wage countries? Increased automation of production? And no I don't advocate lowering wages. I advocate upping the minimum wage. The Trump administration is touting employment figures that come down to full employment. Full employment means that there are jobs that are not getting filled. Jobs that aren't getting filled are detrimental to the economy. Do you know what the interaction of those forces mean on the cost of immigration? Neither do I. The point is, that it's not as straightforward as you might think. A wall sounds like a good idea because it's decisive. Common sense though says that if a person is willing to leave the place they grew up. Walk, in some cases thousands of miles to an uncertain future in a country that especially under Trump makes abundantly clear that they are not welcome. A wall will not deter them either.

Which is as ridiculous as saying if a person takes a gun and robs a bank, a security guard or video cameras won't stop such desperate people. Therefore save your money and don't provide these deterrents.

All the laws against physical attack won't stop a rapist. All the laws against recreational narcotics won't stop an addict. All the laws against robbery won't stop a robber, so why do we have any deterrents at all?

Your point is as ridiculous as saying that parking an unmanned tank before every bank is the best way to deter bank robbers. Sure it looks impressive, but the money you spend on buying of the tank is better spend on more effective means of deterrence. See two people can make straw man arguments.

Talk about apples and oranges.

There is no better way to protect the border (that the Democrats can't remove) than a wall. Democrats want something they can do away with easily if they ever get total control over the government again. They won't be able to do that with a wall. A wall or border fence is the best deterrent we can use for a huge reduction in illegal crossings and drugs.

 

[forkup]

The dems know the wall is, as you say, useless when it comes to stopping illegal aliens. The Cheeto is the one holding up the show

Not according to the border patrol asshole.
Or according to the people who live on the border.

Jo

This wall was mined , electrified in places, patrolled by dogs and military style units in the hundreds of thousands, had guard towers and was continuous. Guess what, people still found a way through. What do you think to accomplish here? And more importantly why. Do you know ANYBODY who is ever been fired and replaced by an illegal immigrant?

I do.
All of America's youth.
We used to mow lawns for money or work in fast food.
Those jobs also taught our youth the value of a buck and why it's so important to better yourself and aim higher.
Oh well,fuck em eh?

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

Or it's that parents just hand kids money today unlike our parents did years ago. If you want money, get it the way I did........work.

I remember the very first video game that came out back in the early 70's. It was table tennis. It cost 50 bucks for the machine. We saved all our money for months to buy the thing, and that all it was--one game in black and white.

I don't disagree, that was my point all along.

 

[dannyboys]

And I'm fine.

But 800,000 folks are not getting checks. Christmas is pretty much ruined for them

As for me?

No bonus again this year and the standard 3% raise I have been getting for years

That tax cut sure hasn't helped me any but whatever. I make good money so I'll be fine. Others not so much

You fucking moron! The 'Christmas cheques' have ALREADY BEEN SENT OUT!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The beaners came way before that.

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad

Oh....and what about the $26 billion that gets sent back to mehico alone? The total for all countries is $138 billion.
Money that should be spent in the local economy and feed our tax coffers.
Yeah....thats real good for America.
Liberals are fuken dunces.

Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

You cant deny that $138 billion dollars leaves our shores.
Add all the other free shit they recieve and it's even worse.

What free shit? Their illegal. The qualify for education for their kids and EMERGENCY care. If they receive more then that's because they have a fake social security number which means they pay taxes. And yes they send money abroad I never tried to deny it. Do you deny that they also contribute to the economy, both in terms of taxes and production?

If they have kids, they get free shit. They get food stamps and medical care for their kids. The average cost per capita to teach kids is about 12 grand a year. If they have three kids in school, that's 36 K each year.

If they are poor (which is most likely the case) all they really do is purchase food and contribute very little to our economy.

I'm sorry you think education of kids is an undue burden on you. I even mentioned another one, emergency care. We can just let them all die and deny a service which has been deemed essential to children for ..... I don't know call it 120 years. So you don't think being employed contributes? Our any solicitude to children is warranted?

If they weren't here in the first place, we wouldn't have to worry about any of that.

You people want to bring problems here, and then dump those problems in our laps and say "FIX IT!" We say the easiest solution to a problem is not to create a problem in the first place.

 

[dannyboys]

The dems know the wall is, as you say, useless when it comes to stopping illegal aliens. The Cheeto is the one holding up the show

Not according to the border patrol asshole.
Or according to the people who live on the border.

Jo

This wall was mined , electrified in places, patrolled by dogs and military style units in the hundreds of thousands, had guard towers and was continuous. Guess what, people still found a way through. What do you think to accomplish here? And more importantly why. Do you know ANYBODY who is ever been fired and replaced by an illegal immigrant?

I do.
All of America's youth.
We used to mow lawns for money or work in fast food.
Those jobs also taught our youth the value of a buck and why it's so important to better yourself and aim higher.
Oh well,fuck em eh?

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

Or it's that parents just hand kids money today unlike our parents did years ago. If you want money, get it the way I did........work.

I remember the very first video game that came out back in the early 70's. It was table tennis. It cost 50 bucks for the machine. We saved all our money for months to buy the thing, and that all it was--one game in black and white.

I had one. It was called: 'Pong'.
Invite a friend. Smoke a joint with 4% THC. Drink a few bottles of cheap wine. Turn the lights out. Sit on the living room floor and play 'Pong' until sunup.

 

[forkup]

Define a good secure border? At a bargain price of call it 50 Billion not including maintenance, you would have a barrier, breachable by the simple expediency of putting up a ladder. It takes an army to completely secure 2000 miles of border that is also not included in the cost. Again what is the point? I've yet to see even a definitive study that illegal immigration in itself is detrimental to the economy. By all means try to secure a border. But a physical barrier is nothing more then a big symbol of ineptitude not to say stupidity.

Displaced low wage earners---which is exactly what we saw in Florida during the 90s and in Chicago and in many places in the South. So, basically what you are advocating for is lowering wages.

Displaced low wage earners were a result of illegal immigrants? You have studies to support that? It had nothing to do with for instance, increased pressure from low wage countries? Increased automation of production? And no I don't advocate lowering wages. I advocate upping the minimum wage. The Trump administration is touting employment figures that come down to full employment. Full employment means that there are jobs that are not getting filled. Jobs that aren't getting filled are detrimental to the economy. Do you know what the interaction of those forces mean on the cost of immigration? Neither do I. The point is, that it's not as straightforward as you might think. A wall sounds like a good idea because it's decisive. Common sense though says that if a person is willing to leave the place they grew up. Walk, in some cases thousands of miles to an uncertain future in a country that especially under Trump makes abundantly clear that they are not welcome. A wall will not deter them either.

Which is as ridiculous as saying if a person takes a gun and robs a bank, a security guard or video cameras won't stop such desperate people. Therefore save your money and don't provide these deterrents.

All the laws against physical attack won't stop a rapist. All the laws against recreational narcotics won't stop an addict. All the laws against robbery won't stop a robber, so why do we have any deterrents at all?

Your point is as ridiculous as saying that parking an unmanned tank before every bank is the best way to deter bank robbers. Sure it looks impressive, but the money you spend on buying of the tank is better spend on more effective means of deterrence. See two people can make straw man arguments.

Talk about apples and oranges.

There is no better way to protect the border (that the Democrats can't remove) than a wall. Democrats want something they can do away with easily if they ever get total control over the government again. They won't be able to do that with a wall. A wall or border fence is the best deterrent we can use for a huge reduction in illegal crossings and drugs.

There sure as hell is a better way. Drones, more border patrol agents, or simply decent trade agreements, more effective international aid. Making the countries they come from, more capable of providing a stable country. It's just that it's all less visual. Like I said. A wall no matter how high or well defended, can and will be breached. It is nothing that can not be circumvented by ladders in this case. And if you spend money on it, make sure that the costs don't exceed the gains.

 

[candycorn]

I do.
All of America's youth.
We used to mow lawns for money or work in fast food.
Those jobs also taught our youth the value of a buck and why it's so important to better yourself and aim higher.
Oh well,fuck em eh?

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

The beaners came way before that.

That defeats your arguments it was the beaners that mad

I do.
All of America's youth.
We used to mow lawns for money or work in fast food.
Those jobs also taught our youth the value of a buck and why it's so important to better yourself and aim higher.
Oh well,fuck em eh?

You must have different youth then were I live. The reason most kids nowadays aren't mowing lawns anymore is that it's almost impossible to take them away from their playstation, phone or tablet. Plus most parents let them. Those jobs are still there, kids aren't interested anymore that simple.

Oh....and what about the $26 billion that gets sent back to mehico alone? The total for all countries is $138 billion.
Money that should be spent in the local economy and feed our tax coffers.
Yeah....thats real good for America.
Liberals are fuken dunces.

Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

They do consume in the local economy to don't they? They have to eat, have to get a place to live, etc, etc. Almost half of them have fake social security numbers and they pay taxes. They all pay sale taxes. And then of course you have the fact that they produce goods and services themselves if they are employed.Fact check: How much does illegal immigration cost? Not nearly as much as Trump claims.
Focusing on 1 aspect of it while disregarding all the others is incorrect.

To be a conservative, the first thing you learn is intellectual dishonesty. This is a great example of it. If there are 20,000,000 illegal aliens, they are providing sales tax receipts on the order of NYC; much larger than most states. If Politics were not a consideration, any governor in their right mind would gladly take the additional persons paying sales taxes for clothing, tools, tires, etc…

But in Trumpworld where “alternative facts” rule the day, they have to try to make the argument that the money we would spend anyway on schools, hospitals, roads, etc… is because of illegal immigration.

The only larger misnomer is that a wall would take care of the problem.

And to be a liberal, the first thing you learn is intellectual stupidity. 20,000,000 illegal aliens are not living in NYC paying NYC sales taxes.

Never said they were. I did say the population was relative to the greater NYC area though which, of course is true.

Nevertheless, many working American citizens are paying Federal income taxes, State income taxes, property taxes AND sales taxes, much of which is pissed away to support many of the 20,000,000 illegal aliens...dumbass.

Again, dishonesty.


Those American citizens pay for schools, hospitals, roads, etc…. through the taxes you mentioned.
They will pay for the schools, hospitals, roads, etc… whether there are any illegals in their communities or not.
What illegals do add is a lot of sales tax revenue

So the bargain is you can have all of the expenditures without the added sales tax revenue or you can have it with the sales tax revenue.

Simple equation; hate will make you pick the worse trek.