History shows Religion is the only force against totalitarian state domination of your entire being

[Moonglow]

It would be wrong not to point something out to help someone............especially if that mote isn't in your eye. Remind me which party was screaming like demons trying to kick God out of the convention.

God goes where he damn well pleases.

 

[Libby von H]

Then I'd focus upon myself and not what others do.

But you aren't

 

[Soupnazi630]

So, several on here objected with objections that the world scholar on this topic has dealt with Michael Burleigh, so to him I turn

Historically, of course, as has been pointed out by such thinkers as Marcel Gauchet and George Weigel Christianity had much to do with the notion of the autonomous, sacrosanct individual, with the preservation of a sphere beyond the state that anticipated civil society, with the notion of elected leadership, and with holding rulers accountable to higher powers.


On the eve of the Bolshevik coup d'état, the Orthodox Church claimed a hundred million adherents, two hundred thousand priests and monks, seventy-five thousand churches and chapels, over eleven hundred monasteries, thirty-seven thousand primary schools, fifty-seven seminaries and four university-level academies, not to speak of thousands of hospitals, old people’s homes and orphanages. Within a few years, the intuitional structures were swept away, the churches were desolated, vandalized or put to secular use. Many of the clergy were imprisoned or shot; appropriately enough the first concentration camp of the gulag was opened in a monastery in Artic regions.

The Austrian Catholic newspaper Volkswohl even parodied life in a future Nazi state in a manner that seems extraordinarily prescient. Every newborn baby’s hereditary history would be checked by a Racial-Hygienic Institute; the unfit or sickly would be sterilised or killed; dedicated ‘Aryan’ Catholics would be persecuted: ‘The demonic cries out from this movement; masses of the tempted go to their doom under the Satan’s sun. If we Catholics want to save ourselves, then I can never be in a pact with these forces.’

Christianity regarded all earthly existence as transient, while the Nazi thought in terms of rendering life eternal through a sort of biological Great Chain of Being. The individual was nothing, but the racial collective would endure through the aeons

The Enabling Law permitted the government to pass budgets and promulgate laws, including those altering the constitution, for four years without parliamentary approval. In democracies, constitutional amendments are especially solemn moments; here they were easier than changing the traffic regulations. None of the guarantees Hitler extended to the Churches or the judiciary in his address to the Reichstag amounted to a hill of beans.

History does not show that it shows the opposite.

Throughout all of world wide history religion has been created to help totalitarian leaders control people. It is never enough to have brute force to rule people. Brute force only controls people physically and it cannot be maintained for long. Secret police , informers , armies all cost money and become unreliable over time. To rule people you need some measure of control over their thoughts, this is where religion comes in.

Sometimes the ruler IS the religious leader such as when Henry the eighth broke from the Roman catholic church and created his own church with himself as the head. Often they are seperate but working together such as the medieval popes and the various royalty.


The examples you gave do not show religion protecting people from totalitarianism, They show the opposite. Yes the bolsheviks persecuted and banned christianity and killed many orthodox leaders. But that is only because they had their own religion to impose which is the dialectic materialist view of history from marx. A religion does not need a god or deity it only needs faith and the ideas of marx absolutely require blind faith. Once you establish that faith among people you have some control. Many nazis considered national socialism to be a religion and treated it as such although they did not have to killed religious leaders because many of them including the pope cooperated with the fascists.

The Romans certianly understood the importance of religion in controlling people throughout the empire. The roman legions were expensive and they wanted to avoid using the army to occupy conquered lands as much as possible. Which is why they probably created christianity to control the unruly people of palestine.

Even ancient tribal warllords had some witch doctor gving the stamp of approval from one god or another to the actions of the warlord.

Religion is a tool of oppression and the only thing preventing totalitarianism is the mind of free persons.

 

[Moonglow]

But you aren't

I don't need to I am not trying to be perfect.

 

[JWBooth]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition

 

[mikegriffith1]

So, several on here objected with objections that the world scholar on this topic has dealt with Michael Burleigh, so to him I turn

Historically, of course, as has been pointed out by such thinkers as Marcel Gauchet and George Weigel Christianity had much to do with the notion of the autonomous, sacrosanct individual, with the preservation of a sphere beyond the state that anticipated civil society, with the notion of elected leadership, and with holding rulers accountable to higher powers.


On the eve of the Bolshevik coup d'état, the Orthodox Church claimed a hundred million adherents, two hundred thousand priests and monks, seventy-five thousand churches and chapels, over eleven hundred monasteries, thirty-seven thousand primary schools, fifty-seven seminaries and four university-level academies, not to speak of thousands of hospitals, old people’s homes and orphanages. Within a few years, the intuitional structures were swept away, the churches were desolated, vandalized or put to secular use. Many of the clergy were imprisoned or shot; appropriately enough the first concentration camp of the gulag was opened in a monastery in Artic regions.

The Austrian Catholic newspaper Volkswohl even parodied life in a future Nazi state in a manner that seems extraordinarily prescient. Every newborn baby’s hereditary history would be checked by a Racial-Hygienic Institute; the unfit or sickly would be sterilised or killed; dedicated ‘Aryan’ Catholics would be persecuted: ‘The demonic cries out from this movement; masses of the tempted go to their doom under the Satan’s sun. If we Catholics want to save ourselves, then I can never be in a pact with these forces.’

Christianity regarded all earthly existence as transient, while the Nazi thought in terms of rendering life eternal through a sort of biological Great Chain of Being. The individual was nothing, but the racial collective would endure through the aeons

The Enabling Law permitted the government to pass budgets and promulgate laws, including those altering the constitution, for four years without parliamentary approval. In democracies, constitutional amendments are especially solemn moments; here they were easier than changing the traffic regulations. None of the guarantees Hitler extended to the Churches or the judiciary in his address to the Reichstag amounted to a hill of beans.

You are absolutely correct. This is why godless dictatorships sooner or later try to suppress religion as much as they think they can get away with doing.

After telling Catholics they had nothing to fear from him, Hitler turned on the Catholic Church with a vengeance after he consolidated his power. The Nazis murdered thousands of priests and nuns. The Nazis also banned Catholic schools and youth groups.

 

[Libby von H]

History does not show that it shows the opposite.

Throughout all of world wide history religion has been created to help totalitarian leaders control people. It is never enough to have brute force to rule people. Brute force only controls people physically and it cannot be maintained for long. Secret police , informers , armies all cost money and become unreliable over time. To rule people you need some measure of control over their thoughts, this is where religion comes in.

Sometimes the ruler IS the religious leader such as when Henry the eighth broke from the Roman catholic church and created his own church with himself as the head. Often they are seperate but working together such as the medieval popes and the various royalty.


The examples you gave do not show religion protecting people from totalitarianism, They show the opposite. Yes the bolsheviks persecuted and banned christianity and killed many orthodox leaders. But that is only because they had their own religion to impose which is the dialectic materialist view of history from marx. A religion does not need a god or deity it only needs faith and the ideas of marx absolutely require blind faith. Once you establish that faith among people you have some control. Many nazis considered national socialism to be a religion and treated it as such although they did not have to killed religious leaders because many of them including the pope cooperated with the fascists.

The Romans certianly understood the importance of religion in controlling people throughout the empire. The roman legions were expensive and they wanted to avoid using the army to occupy conquered lands as much as possible. Which is why they probably created christianity to control the unruly people of palestine.

Even ancient tribal warllords had some witch doctor gving the stamp of approval from one god or another to the actions of the warlord.

Religion is a tool of oppression and the only thing preventing totalitarianism is the mind of free persons.

Besides being stupid, which maybe you can't help, you don't realize that all this unsubstantiated pub talk makes you look like something out of Delilverance.

Toynbee disagreed, Will Durant disagreed, THe American Fuonders disagreed.

"Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion." —John Adams, in a letter to Benjamin Rush. 1812

"[T]hat the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty." —Thomas Jefferson, 1779.


"The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." —James Madison, 1785.

"Driven from every other corner of the earth, freedom of thought and the right of private judgment in matters of conscience direct their course to this happy country as their last asylum." —Samuel Adams, Speech on August 1, 1776.

"While we are contending for our own liberty, we should be very cautious not to violate the conscience of others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of the hearts of men, and to Him only in this case are they answerable." —George Washington, in a letter to Benedict Arnold.

"Conscience is the most sacred of all property." —James Madison, 1792.

 

[Votto]

So, several on here objected with objections that the world scholar on this topic has dealt with Michael Burleigh, so to him I turn

Historically, of course, as has been pointed out by such thinkers as Marcel Gauchet and George Weigel Christianity had much to do with the notion of the autonomous, sacrosanct individual, with the preservation of a sphere beyond the state that anticipated civil society, with the notion of elected leadership, and with holding rulers accountable to higher powers.


On the eve of the Bolshevik coup d'état, the Orthodox Church claimed a hundred million adherents, two hundred thousand priests and monks, seventy-five thousand churches and chapels, over eleven hundred monasteries, thirty-seven thousand primary schools, fifty-seven seminaries and four university-level academies, not to speak of thousands of hospitals, old people’s homes and orphanages. Within a few years, the intuitional structures were swept away, the churches were desolated, vandalized or put to secular use. Many of the clergy were imprisoned or shot; appropriately enough the first concentration camp of the gulag was opened in a monastery in Artic regions.

The Austrian Catholic newspaper Volkswohl even parodied life in a future Nazi state in a manner that seems extraordinarily prescient. Every newborn baby’s hereditary history would be checked by a Racial-Hygienic Institute; the unfit or sickly would be sterilised or killed; dedicated ‘Aryan’ Catholics would be persecuted: ‘The demonic cries out from this movement; masses of the tempted go to their doom under the Satan’s sun. If we Catholics want to save ourselves, then I can never be in a pact with these forces.’

Christianity regarded all earthly existence as transient, while the Nazi thought in terms of rendering life eternal through a sort of biological Great Chain of Being. The individual was nothing, but the racial collective would endure through the aeons

The Enabling Law permitted the government to pass budgets and promulgate laws, including those altering the constitution, for four years without parliamentary approval. In democracies, constitutional amendments are especially solemn moments; here they were easier than changing the traffic regulations. None of the guarantees Hitler extended to the Churches or the judiciary in his address to the Reichstag amounted to a hill of beans.

No. Leftism is a religion, Nazism is a religion, communism is a religion, etc.

The Left, or any other political cult out there, has no problem with a religion so long as that religion bows its knee to their cult. Case in point is Joe Biden. So long as Jesus bows his knee to the Left and is Ok with abortion on demand and other vices the Bible takes issue with that conflict with the Leftist ideology, Joe Biden is just fine.

However, once that religion disagrees with their cult in any way whatsoever, they become Nazi Taliban insurrectionists from hell that is trying to take over government and end democracy.

In fact, Hitler even said he was a Christian, but I guarantee if you had asked Hitler if Nazism conflicted with Christianity he would given an overwhelming NO!! reply. The same is with Joe Biden.

Try again.

 

[Libby von H]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition

The BBC did a documentary some years ago and it shocked the world, a clearly secular investigation concluding as it did

• The “Black Legend” began as an anti-Spanish propaganda campaign that succeeded largely because of the invention of the printing press. The Inquisition was the prime target.
• Inquisitors were not fanatical priests as they are often portrayed. In fact, many of them were not priests at all but legal experts trained in Spanish schools.
• Contrary to popular belief, torture was rarely used. It was used less by the Inquisition than it was in the tribunals of other countries throughout Europe at the time.
• Stories about cruel torture methods used by the Inquisitors and the terrible conditions in which prisoners were kept were completely falsified. The Inquisition actually had the best jails in Spain.
• Prisoners of secular courts would actually blaspheme so that they could be transferred to Inquisition prisons and escape the maltreatment of the secular prisons.
• Persecuting witchcraft was a craze in Europe at the time, and secular courts were not tolerant of these kinds of offenses. The accused were often burned at the stake. The Inquisition, on the other hand, declared witchcraft a delusion. No one could be tried for it or burned at the stake.
• The Inquisition was virtually powerless in rural areas.
• In the entire sixteenth century, the Inquisition in Spain executed only about 50 people, which is contrary to the “Black Legend,” which numbers the executions in the hundreds of thousands.
• Of all the Inquisitions together throughout Europe, scholars estimate that the number of people executed ranged somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000. That averages, at most, about fourteen people per year throughout the entire continent over a period of 350 years.

The entire documentary is available on Youtube.


Did you like this content? Please help keep

 

[Soupnazi630]

Besides being stupid, which maybe you can't help, you don't realize that all this unsubstantiated pub talk makes you look like something out of Delilverance.

Toynbee disagreed, Will Durant disagreed, THe American Fuonders disagreed.

"Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion." —John Adams, in a letter to Benjamin Rush. 1812

"[T]hat the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty." —Thomas Jefferson, 1779.


"The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." —James Madison, 1785.

"Driven from every other corner of the earth, freedom of thought and the right of private judgment in matters of conscience direct their course to this happy country as their last asylum." —Samuel Adams, Speech on August 1, 1776.

"While we are contending for our own liberty, we should be very cautious not to violate the conscience of others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of the hearts of men, and to Him only in this case are they answerable." —George Washington, in a letter to Benedict Arnold.

"Conscience is the most sacred of all property." —James Madison, 1792.

Toynbee and Durant are irrelevant. They are not experts and not any sort of authority.

You posted quotes from the fathers which actually siupport what I said.

The founders went out of their way to seperate religion from government. This is probably the first time in human history that government has done that and one of the reasons the US is so successful.

You DO realize that history did not begin in 1776? They seperate it here because I am correct.

 

[whitehall]

Religion is a matter of choice. The important thing is the guaranteed freedom to exercise it.

 

[luiza]

So, several on here objected with objections that the world scholar on this topic has dealt with Michael Burleigh, so to him I turn

Historically, of course, as has been pointed out by such thinkers as Marcel Gauchet and George Weigel Christianity had much to do with the notion of the autonomous, sacrosanct individual, with the preservation of a sphere beyond the state that anticipated civil society, with the notion of elected leadership, and with holding rulers accountable to higher powers.


On the eve of the Bolshevik coup d'état, the Orthodox Church claimed a hundred million adherents, two hundred thousand priests and monks, seventy-five thousand churches and chapels, over eleven hundred monasteries, thirty-seven thousand primary schools, fifty-seven seminaries and four university-level academies, not to speak of thousands of hospitals, old people’s homes and orphanages. Within a few years, the intuitional structures were swept away, the churches were desolated, vandalized or put to secular use. Many of the clergy were imprisoned or shot; appropriately enough the first concentration camp of the gulag was opened in a monastery in Artic regions.

The Austrian Catholic newspaper Volkswohl even parodied life in a future Nazi state in a manner that seems extraordinarily prescient. Every newborn baby’s hereditary history would be checked by a Racial-Hygienic Institute; the unfit or sickly would be sterilised or killed; dedicated ‘Aryan’ Catholics would be persecuted: ‘The demonic cries out from this movement; masses of the tempted go to their doom under the Satan’s sun. If we Catholics want to save ourselves, then I can never be in a pact with these forces.’

Christianity regarded all earthly existence as transient, while the Nazi thought in terms of rendering life eternal through a sort of biological Great Chain of Being. The individual was nothing, but the racial collective would endure through the aeons

The Enabling Law permitted the government to pass budgets and promulgate laws, including those altering the constitution, for four years without parliamentary approval. In democracies, constitutional amendments are especially solemn moments; here they were easier than changing the traffic regulations. None of the guarantees Hitler extended to the Churches or the judiciary in his address to the Reichstag amounted to a hill of beans.

Gobbledygook .
It simply takes the Sheeple time to recognise even the obvious .
But when the Tipping Point duly arrives , numbers invariably prove to be the winning argument aided by weapons .

 

[TNHarley]

Govt and religion. The two biggest killers in human history.
Not sure anyone will get anywhere trying to claim one is better than the other.

 

[rampart]

Its just another false religion, something that libs worship desperately. Very sad.

i have never "worshipped government" at all.

if you intend to die for trump, at least "know your enemy. " sun tsu

 

[Votto]

The BBC did a documentary some years ago and it shocked the world, a clearly secular investigation concluding as it did

• The “Black Legend” began as an anti-Spanish propaganda campaign that succeeded largely because of the invention of the printing press. The Inquisition was the prime target.
• Inquisitors were not fanatical priests as they are often portrayed. In fact, many of them were not priests at all but legal experts trained in Spanish schools.
• Contrary to popular belief, torture was rarely used. It was used less by the Inquisition than it was in the tribunals of other countries throughout Europe at the time.
• Stories about cruel torture methods used by the Inquisitors and the terrible conditions in which prisoners were kept were completely falsified. The Inquisition actually had the best jails in Spain.
• Prisoners of secular courts would actually blaspheme so that they could be transferred to Inquisition prisons and escape the maltreatment of the secular prisons.
• Persecuting witchcraft was a craze in Europe at the time, and secular courts were not tolerant of these kinds of offenses. The accused were often burned at the stake. The Inquisition, on the other hand, declared witchcraft a delusion. No one could be tried for it or burned at the stake.
• The Inquisition was virtually powerless in rural areas.
• In the entire sixteenth century, the Inquisition in Spain executed only about 50 people, which is contrary to the “Black Legend,” which numbers the executions in the hundreds of thousands.
• Of all the Inquisitions together throughout Europe, scholars estimate that the number of people executed ranged somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000. That averages, at most, about fourteen people per year throughout the entire continent over a period of 350 years.

The entire documentary is available on Youtube.


Did you like this content? Please help keep

As I have said before,

1. Constantine was the one who made Christianity the official religion of the state. Problem was, he was not a Christian as he continued to worship the pagan gods of Rome.

Was the Emperor Constantine a True Christian or Was He a Secret Pagan?

Constantine the Great is known in history as the first Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity.

www.ancient-origins.net

Constantine's interest in the faith was only for his political power, and for eternal life as it was rumored he converted on his death bed. Once Constantine made the Pope a figure that essentially became the political emperor of Europe, telling kings what they could or could not do, the Pope stopped being a man of God and more of a world tyrant. In fact, the Jewish persecution of the Catholic church over centuries is legendary, kicking them out of entire countries, putting them in ghettos, making the wear Stars of David, rounding them up and killing them basically everything the Nazi regime did to them is the history of the Catholic church.

However, that was not the message of Jesus.

John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.

John 6:15
Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

As for human kings, that was never the intention of God because he knew that sinful man becoming king was a recipe for disaster.

1 Samuel 8
When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as Israel’s leaders.[a] 2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not follow his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.

4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your ways; now appoint a king to lead[b] us, such as all the other nations have.”

6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.”

10 Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle[c] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”

19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”

21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the Lord. 22 The Lord answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”

Then Samuel said to the Israelites, “Everyone go back to your own town.”

 

[Libby von H]

Toynbee and Durant are irrelevant. They are not experts and not any sort of authority.

You posted quotes from the fathers which actually siupport what I said.

The founders went out of their way to seperate religion from government. This is probably the first time in human history that government has done that and one of the reasons the US is so successful.

You DO realize that history did not begin in 1776? They seperate it here because I am correct.

No, just the opposite, unschooled bigot

As of about a year ago we know have the religious views in their own words of all 118 FOunders and they are almost to a man opposed to your view.
3 volumes , 8 years research , 2000 pages , every Founder

Judge Mark T. Boonstra​

Mark Boonstra – In Their Own Words

In Their Own Words

foundersownwords.com

 

[Votto]

Govt and religion. The two biggest killers in human history.
Not sure anyone will get anywhere trying to claim one is better than the other.

No one ever kills or steals from another to convert them to their religion

Religion is just a tool of the state for their own power.

 

[Libby von H]

i have never "worshipped government" at all.

if you intend to die for trump, at least "know your enemy. " sun tsu

 

[Votto]

No, just the opposite, unschooled bigot

As of about a year ago we know have the religious views in their own words of all 118 FOunders and they are almost to a man opposed to your view.
3 volumes , 8 years research , 2000 pages , every Founder

Judge Mark T. Boonstra​

Mark Boonstra – In Their Own Words

In Their Own Words

foundersownwords.com

The Founders? The Founders were appalled at the abuses of the Church of England because the state preached from the pulpits

That is why they fled to America, for religious freedom.

Try again.

It would be akin to Joe Biden telling us Jesus loves abortion from the pulpit, something he would gladly do if able.

 

[Votto]

View attachment 926059

Why do you think the current Pope gives sermons on the evils of global warming and building walls, while seemingly ignoring abortion on demand around the world or promotion of the gospel?

It is because he fears the politics of man more than he fears God.