Home invasion...thank goodness victims didn't have a gun...grandfather was beaten to death though...

[Brain357]

..Americans manage to use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives..

Took way to long to trot out this gun fantasy again. 1.6 million eh? 4,384 gun stops each and every single day of the year? You live in a fantasy world dude. Prove what you say. With at least a report on a thousand of those DGU's.
From yesterday.

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

 

[2aguy]

..Americans manage to use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives..

Took way to long to trot out this gun fantasy again. 1.6 million eh? 4,384 gun stops each and every single day of the year? You live in a fantasy world dude. Prove what you say. With at least a report on a thousand of those DGU's.
From yesterday.

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

Wrong, wrong, and....well....wrong....crime is down....but more people own guns, gun accidents are down to....with more than 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....guns do not increase the crime rate and again, you are being dishonest......most defenders are not involved in criminal activity....as has been pointed out most people in the 90s who carried guns for self defense may not have had permits to do so...that is the "criminal" activity you keep refrencing.....they carried guns to protect themselves from actual criminals....

I average them because that gives a good number from all of those studies.....but I also list all of those studies so people can see the actual numbers from actual research on the subject of guns and self defense.....

 

[Brain357]

..Americans manage to use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives..

Took way to long to trot out this gun fantasy again. 1.6 million eh? 4,384 gun stops each and every single day of the year? You live in a fantasy world dude. Prove what you say. With at least a report on a thousand of those DGU's.
From yesterday.

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

Wrong, wrong, and....well....wrong....crime is down....but more people own guns, gun accidents are down to....with more than 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....guns do not increase the crime rate and again, you are being dishonest......most defenders are not involved in criminal activity....as has been pointed out most people in the 90s who carried guns for self defense may not have had permits to do so...that is the "criminal" activity you keep refrencing.....they carried guns to protect themselves from actual criminals....

I average them because that gives a good number from all of those studies.....but I also list all of those studies so people can see the actual numbers from actual research on the subject of guns and self defense.....

Ok so if one of the ones just under 800k are the most accurate your 1.6 is only 100% too high. Sorry for that reason alone averaging doesn't work.

Yes most are involved in criminal activity, kleck has said that. The same guy committing armed robbery on Monday is the guy defending on Tuesday.

Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. No way there are millions of defenses.

Using your 1.6 that is almost 50 million defenses the last 30 years. That's getting close to one for every gun owner. I know a lot of owners but none have ever used one for defense. Most the people on the board has never used one. Your numbers are a myth.

 

[Skull Pilot]

..Americans manage to use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives..

Took way to long to trot out this gun fantasy again. 1.6 million eh? 4,384 gun stops each and every single day of the year? You live in a fantasy world dude. Prove what you say. With at least a report on a thousand of those DGU's.
From yesterday.

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

Wrong, wrong, and....well....wrong....crime is down....but more people own guns, gun accidents are down to....with more than 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....guns do not increase the crime rate and again, you are being dishonest......most defenders are not involved in criminal activity....as has been pointed out most people in the 90s who carried guns for self defense may not have had permits to do so...that is the "criminal" activity you keep refrencing.....they carried guns to protect themselves from actual criminals....

I average them because that gives a good number from all of those studies.....but I also list all of those studies so people can see the actual numbers from actual research on the subject of guns and self defense.....

Ok so if one of the ones just under 800k are the most accurate your 1.6 is only 100% too high. Sorry for that reason alone averaging doesn't work.

Yes most are involved in criminal activity, kleck has said that. The same guy committing armed robbery on Monday is the guy defending on Tuesday.

Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. No way there are millions of defenses.

Using your 1.6 that is almost 50 million defenses the last 30 years. That's getting close to one for every gun owner. I know a lot of owners but none have ever used one for defense. Most the people on the board has never used one. Your numbers are a myth.

How many times do you have to be told that using a gun in self defense doesn't have to result in anyone being killed?

 

[WinterBorn]

Although the couple appeared to live a quiet, family-oriented life, men believed to be their relatives have extended rap sheets.

Court records show Sabitree Bhagwandin was named as a third-party custodian in a 2008 case titled "U.S.A. v. Bhagwandin." That case involved a Vishwanand Bhagwandin, who was arrested for allegedly selling cocaine between May and September of 2008. The relationship between Sabitree and Vishwanand is unclear.

Vishwanand Bhagwandin, 38, appears more than a dozen times in the Lee Clerk of Court case database, including a 1999 case for multiple counts of drug trafficking.

Another Bhagwandin, Shradhanand, was arrested in 2009 after he allegedly bought $25,000 worth of cocaine from an undercover sheriff's deputy. His 2009 cocaine arrest resulted in two felony trafficking charges.

Sounds like some real nice people. Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe.

Really? "Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe." Safe?

 

[2aguy]

..Americans manage to use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives..

Took way to long to trot out this gun fantasy again. 1.6 million eh? 4,384 gun stops each and every single day of the year? You live in a fantasy world dude. Prove what you say. With at least a report on a thousand of those DGU's.
From yesterday.

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

Wrong, wrong, and....well....wrong....crime is down....but more people own guns, gun accidents are down to....with more than 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....guns do not increase the crime rate and again, you are being dishonest......most defenders are not involved in criminal activity....as has been pointed out most people in the 90s who carried guns for self defense may not have had permits to do so...that is the "criminal" activity you keep refrencing.....they carried guns to protect themselves from actual criminals....

I average them because that gives a good number from all of those studies.....but I also list all of those studies so people can see the actual numbers from actual research on the subject of guns and self defense.....

Ok so if one of the ones just under 800k are the most accurate your 1.6 is only 100% too high. Sorry for that reason alone averaging doesn't work.

Yes most are involved in criminal activity, kleck has said that. The same guy committing armed robbery on Monday is the guy defending on Tuesday.

Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. No way there are millions of defenses.

Using your 1.6 that is almost 50 million defenses the last 30 years. That's getting close to one for every gun owner. I know a lot of owners but none have ever used one for defense. Most the people on the board has never used one. Your numbers are a myth.

No, Dr. Kleck didn't say anything of the sort...you keep saying it as if saying it over and over will make it true.....

They aren't my numbers...they are the numbers of the studies I posted, by actual researchers, not some guy on the internet........

 

[Brain357]

Although the couple appeared to live a quiet, family-oriented life, men believed to be their relatives have extended rap sheets.

Court records show Sabitree Bhagwandin was named as a third-party custodian in a 2008 case titled "U.S.A. v. Bhagwandin." That case involved a Vishwanand Bhagwandin, who was arrested for allegedly selling cocaine between May and September of 2008. The relationship between Sabitree and Vishwanand is unclear.

Vishwanand Bhagwandin, 38, appears more than a dozen times in the Lee Clerk of Court case database, including a 1999 case for multiple counts of drug trafficking.

Another Bhagwandin, Shradhanand, was arrested in 2009 after he allegedly bought $25,000 worth of cocaine from an undercover sheriff's deputy. His 2009 cocaine arrest resulted in two felony trafficking charges.

Sounds like some real nice people. Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe.

Really? "Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe." Safe?

Yes look at the family of these people. Deeply in crime. Drug dealers. This couple wasn't randomly home invaded.

 

[2aguy]

..Americans manage to use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives..

Took way to long to trot out this gun fantasy again. 1.6 million eh? 4,384 gun stops each and every single day of the year? You live in a fantasy world dude. Prove what you say. With at least a report on a thousand of those DGU's.
From yesterday.

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

Wrong, wrong, and....well....wrong....crime is down....but more people own guns, gun accidents are down to....with more than 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....guns do not increase the crime rate and again, you are being dishonest......most defenders are not involved in criminal activity....as has been pointed out most people in the 90s who carried guns for self defense may not have had permits to do so...that is the "criminal" activity you keep refrencing.....they carried guns to protect themselves from actual criminals....

I average them because that gives a good number from all of those studies.....but I also list all of those studies so people can see the actual numbers from actual research on the subject of guns and self defense.....

Ok so if one of the ones just under 800k are the most accurate your 1.6 is only 100% too high. Sorry for that reason alone averaging doesn't work.

Yes most are involved in criminal activity, kleck has said that. The same guy committing armed robbery on Monday is the guy defending on Tuesday.

Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. No way there are millions of defenses.

Using your 1.6 that is almost 50 million defenses the last 30 years. That's getting close to one for every gun owner. I know a lot of owners but none have ever used one for defense. Most the people on the board has never used one. Your numbers are a myth.

Here is Dr. Kleck on that subject...again....

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

 

[Brain357]

Took way to long to trot out this gun fantasy again. 1.6 million eh? 4,384 gun stops each and every single day of the year? You live in a fantasy world dude. Prove what you say. With at least a report on a thousand of those DGU's.
From yesterday.

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

Wrong, wrong, and....well....wrong....crime is down....but more people own guns, gun accidents are down to....with more than 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....guns do not increase the crime rate and again, you are being dishonest......most defenders are not involved in criminal activity....as has been pointed out most people in the 90s who carried guns for self defense may not have had permits to do so...that is the "criminal" activity you keep refrencing.....they carried guns to protect themselves from actual criminals....

I average them because that gives a good number from all of those studies.....but I also list all of those studies so people can see the actual numbers from actual research on the subject of guns and self defense.....

Ok so if one of the ones just under 800k are the most accurate your 1.6 is only 100% too high. Sorry for that reason alone averaging doesn't work.

Yes most are involved in criminal activity, kleck has said that. The same guy committing armed robbery on Monday is the guy defending on Tuesday.

Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. No way there are millions of defenses.

Using your 1.6 that is almost 50 million defenses the last 30 years. That's getting close to one for every gun owner. I know a lot of owners but none have ever used one for defense. Most the people on the board has never used one. Your numbers are a myth.

No, Dr. Kleck didn't say anything of the sort...you keep saying it as if saying it over and over will make it true.....

They aren't my numbers...they are the numbers of the studies I posted, by actual researchers, not some guy on the internet........

Criminals are armed and in high crime areas. They are obviously most of the defenses.

 

[Brain357]

Took way to long to trot out this gun fantasy again. 1.6 million eh? 4,384 gun stops each and every single day of the year? You live in a fantasy world dude. Prove what you say. With at least a report on a thousand of those DGU's.
From yesterday.

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

Wrong, wrong, and....well....wrong....crime is down....but more people own guns, gun accidents are down to....with more than 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....guns do not increase the crime rate and again, you are being dishonest......most defenders are not involved in criminal activity....as has been pointed out most people in the 90s who carried guns for self defense may not have had permits to do so...that is the "criminal" activity you keep refrencing.....they carried guns to protect themselves from actual criminals....

I average them because that gives a good number from all of those studies.....but I also list all of those studies so people can see the actual numbers from actual research on the subject of guns and self defense.....

Ok so if one of the ones just under 800k are the most accurate your 1.6 is only 100% too high. Sorry for that reason alone averaging doesn't work.

Yes most are involved in criminal activity, kleck has said that. The same guy committing armed robbery on Monday is the guy defending on Tuesday.

Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. No way there are millions of defenses.

Using your 1.6 that is almost 50 million defenses the last 30 years. That's getting close to one for every gun owner. I know a lot of owners but none have ever used one for defense. Most the people on the board has never used one. Your numbers are a myth.

How many times do you have to be told that using a gun in self defense doesn't have to result in anyone being killed?

Yes according to a study about 30% of the time.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry, they don't show up in the studies....they don't answer questions that will put them in jail....and so in the studies they are not represented in the results...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

Wrong, wrong, and....well....wrong....crime is down....but more people own guns, gun accidents are down to....with more than 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....guns do not increase the crime rate and again, you are being dishonest......most defenders are not involved in criminal activity....as has been pointed out most people in the 90s who carried guns for self defense may not have had permits to do so...that is the "criminal" activity you keep refrencing.....they carried guns to protect themselves from actual criminals....

I average them because that gives a good number from all of those studies.....but I also list all of those studies so people can see the actual numbers from actual research on the subject of guns and self defense.....

Ok so if one of the ones just under 800k are the most accurate your 1.6 is only 100% too high. Sorry for that reason alone averaging doesn't work.

Yes most are involved in criminal activity, kleck has said that. The same guy committing armed robbery on Monday is the guy defending on Tuesday.

Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. No way there are millions of defenses.

Using your 1.6 that is almost 50 million defenses the last 30 years. That's getting close to one for every gun owner. I know a lot of owners but none have ever used one for defense. Most the people on the board has never used one. Your numbers are a myth.

How many times do you have to be told that using a gun in self defense doesn't have to result in anyone being killed?

Yes according to a study about 30% of the time.

I have to think it's higher than that

 

[Brain357]

Sorry, they don't show up in the studies....they don't answer questions that will put them in jail....and so in the studies they are not represented in the results...

Sure but all the other people who were illegally carrying as you say do. Sorry most defenders are involved in criminal activity as kleck has said.

 

[Skull Pilot]

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/defensive-gun-use/?_r=0

Even if you use the lower number of 67740 instances of self defense with a firearm and only 230 resulting in a justifiable homicide that leaves 67510 instances where no one was killed

Way more than 30%

 

[WinterBorn]

Although the couple appeared to live a quiet, family-oriented life, men believed to be their relatives have extended rap sheets.

Court records show Sabitree Bhagwandin was named as a third-party custodian in a 2008 case titled "U.S.A. v. Bhagwandin." That case involved a Vishwanand Bhagwandin, who was arrested for allegedly selling cocaine between May and September of 2008. The relationship between Sabitree and Vishwanand is unclear.

Vishwanand Bhagwandin, 38, appears more than a dozen times in the Lee Clerk of Court case database, including a 1999 case for multiple counts of drug trafficking.

Another Bhagwandin, Shradhanand, was arrested in 2009 after he allegedly bought $25,000 worth of cocaine from an undercover sheriff's deputy. His 2009 cocaine arrest resulted in two felony trafficking charges.

Sounds like some real nice people. Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe.

Really? "Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe." Safe?

Yes look at the family of these people. Deeply in crime. Drug dealers. This couple wasn't randomly home invaded.

In this one instance, you are correct. But to pretend that avoiding criminal activity will make you safe is ridiculous.

 

[Brain357]

Although the couple appeared to live a quiet, family-oriented life, men believed to be their relatives have extended rap sheets.

Court records show Sabitree Bhagwandin was named as a third-party custodian in a 2008 case titled "U.S.A. v. Bhagwandin." That case involved a Vishwanand Bhagwandin, who was arrested for allegedly selling cocaine between May and September of 2008. The relationship between Sabitree and Vishwanand is unclear.

Vishwanand Bhagwandin, 38, appears more than a dozen times in the Lee Clerk of Court case database, including a 1999 case for multiple counts of drug trafficking.

Another Bhagwandin, Shradhanand, was arrested in 2009 after he allegedly bought $25,000 worth of cocaine from an undercover sheriff's deputy. His 2009 cocaine arrest resulted in two felony trafficking charges.

Sounds like some real nice people. Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe.

Really? "Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe." Safe?

Yes look at the family of these people. Deeply in crime. Drug dealers. This couple wasn't randomly home invaded.

In this one instance, you are correct. But to pretend that avoiding criminal activity will make you safe is ridiculous.

In most instances it is correct. That's the side of the story not reported by the gun sites.

 

[Brain357]

Sorry, they don't show up in the studies....they don't answer questions that will put them in jail....and so in the studies they are not represented in the results...

You are making that up. Post where any of your studies back up that claim.

 

[NLT]

That is why Joe Biden said it's best to own a sawed-off shotgun. No pointing necessary. No skills necessary. He's not as nutty as you think.

Biden is an idiot, sawed off shotguns are illegal. Minimum barrel length must be 18"

United States[edit]
Under the National Firearms Act (NFA), it is illegal for a private citizen to possess a sawed-off modern smokeless powder shotgun (a shotgun with a barrel length shorter than 18 inches (46 cm) or an overall length shorter than 26 inches (66 cm)) (under U.S.C. Title II), without a tax-paid registration from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, requiring a background check and either a $200 or $5 tax for every transfer, depending upon the specific manufacturing circumstances of the particular sawed-off modern shotgun being transferred. Gun trusts have become an increasingly popular means of registering SBS' with the BATFE.[9] Short-barreled muzzleloading blackpowder shotguns, in contrast, are not illegal by federal law and require no tax-stamped permit, although they may be illegal under state law. As with all NFA regulated firearms, a new tax stamp must be purchased before every transfer. Inter-state transfers must be facilitated through a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) while intrastate transfers may be between two persons.[10]

In the US, shotguns originally manufactured without shoulder stocks (and thus is not legally a shotgun), with a total length under 26 inches, are classified as an "Any Other Weapon" by the BATFE and have a $5 transfer tax, if they are manufactured by a maker possessing the appropriate Class 2 Special Occupational Taxpayer Federal Firearms License. However, in order to convert an existing shoulder-stocked shotgun to a short-barreled shotgun or an existing pistol-grip-only shotgun to an "Any Other Weapon", a private citizen must pay the standard $200 NFA tax.[2]

 

[2aguy]

Although the couple appeared to live a quiet, family-oriented life, men believed to be their relatives have extended rap sheets.

Court records show Sabitree Bhagwandin was named as a third-party custodian in a 2008 case titled "U.S.A. v. Bhagwandin." That case involved a Vishwanand Bhagwandin, who was arrested for allegedly selling cocaine between May and September of 2008. The relationship between Sabitree and Vishwanand is unclear.

Vishwanand Bhagwandin, 38, appears more than a dozen times in the Lee Clerk of Court case database, including a 1999 case for multiple counts of drug trafficking.

Another Bhagwandin, Shradhanand, was arrested in 2009 after he allegedly bought $25,000 worth of cocaine from an undercover sheriff's deputy. His 2009 cocaine arrest resulted in two felony trafficking charges.

Sounds like some real nice people. Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe.

Really? "Stay away from criminal activity and you are safe." Safe?

Yes look at the family of these people. Deeply in crime. Drug dealers. This couple wasn't randomly home invaded.

What this story shows is how dumb anti gun memes are.......

1) the attackers did not use guns....killed one man, put a woman in the hospital

2) defenders did not use a gun....one killed the other hospitalized from attack by group of attackers

3) criminal history, not guns, the main factor to this violence

4) family members hurt and killed....no gun involved......

And we don't know if the grandparents were drug king pins or not..........

 

[2aguy]

Here are the actual studies on gun use and self defense...conducted over 40 years, by both public and private researchers and many of those researchers are anti gun......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000

Those have been debunked. You can't just average them, that's stupid. Crime has come down 30% from the newest ones. Most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

Wrong, wrong, and....well....wrong....crime is down....but more people own guns, gun accidents are down to....with more than 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....guns do not increase the crime rate and again, you are being dishonest......most defenders are not involved in criminal activity....as has been pointed out most people in the 90s who carried guns for self defense may not have had permits to do so...that is the "criminal" activity you keep refrencing.....they carried guns to protect themselves from actual criminals....

I average them because that gives a good number from all of those studies.....but I also list all of those studies so people can see the actual numbers from actual research on the subject of guns and self defense.....

Ok so if one of the ones just under 800k are the most accurate your 1.6 is only 100% too high. Sorry for that reason alone averaging doesn't work.

Yes most are involved in criminal activity, kleck has said that. The same guy committing armed robbery on Monday is the guy defending on Tuesday.

Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. No way there are millions of defenses.

Using your 1.6 that is almost 50 million defenses the last 30 years. That's getting close to one for every gun owner. I know a lot of owners but none have ever used one for defense. Most the people on the board has never used one. Your numbers are a myth.

No, Dr. Kleck didn't say anything of the sort...you keep saying it as if saying it over and over will make it true.....

They aren't my numbers...they are the numbers of the studies I posted, by actual researchers, not some guy on the internet........

Criminals are armed and in high crime areas. They are obviously most of the defenses.

Wrong...the studies don't show that at all......criminals had no incentive to contribute to any of theses studies with their use of illegal, felony guns.......so no, criminals are not most of the reported defenses in these gun studies......