Hous Repblicns Wrong On Intrnet Sales Tax Bill!

[Desperado]

Now the big question.
Who is in charge of watching the online retailers?
Who is going to perform the Audits? Monthly? Yearly?
Who is going to audit each and everyone to make sure that they are not making over the limit and not paying the tax?
Who is going to audit their books to insure that each state that is entitled receives their tax?
Just more big government.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Now the big question.
Who is in charge of watching the online retailers?
Who is going to perform the Audits? Monthly? Yearly?
Who is going to audit each and everyone to make sure that they are not making over the limit and not paying the tax?
Who is going to audit their books to insure that each state that is entitled receives their tax?
Just more big government.

State Departments of Revenue and Taxation already monitor businesses and audit their books for Brick & Mortar stores and online sellers operating within that state. If a business is breaking the law their job in enforcement. If I own a business in VA, I have to have a business license, must operate within the law, and I'm subject to audits by VA.

That structure already exists.

Your assumption that each an every business goes through a monthly or even a yearly audit is probably incorrect. My understanding is that audits are usually done because of (a) irregularities in reporting, or (b) random selection. Only businesses with over $1,000,000 in online sales collect the tax, they will already be incorporated as a business.


>>>>

 

[Desperado]

Now the big question.
Who is in charge of watching the online retailers?
Who is going to perform the Audits? Monthly? Yearly?
Who is going to audit each and everyone to make sure that they are not making over the limit and not paying the tax?
Who is going to audit their books to insure that each state that is entitled receives their tax?
Just more big government.

State Departments of Revenue and Taxation already monitor businesses and audit their books for Brick & Mortar stores and online sellers operating within that state. If a business is breaking the law their job in enforcement. If I own a business in VA, I have to have a business license, must operate within the law, and I'm subject to audits by VA.

That structure already exists.

Your assumption that each an every business goes through a monthly or even a yearly audit is probably incorrect. My understanding is that audits are usually done because of (a) irregularities in reporting, or (b) random selection. Only businesses with over $1,000,000 in online sales collect the tax, they will already be incorporated as a business.


>>>>

One can see you are very Gung ho on this bill. Just wondering why?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The tax-free holiday is over folks. Get over it.

Why do you think the USPS is in its death throes?

Brick and mortar can not compete with the click of a mousy-shmousy.

Cyber-commercial bullying is killing retail America.

Selling the same product for less money while providing jobs for workers is bullying? What about global warming? Think of all the greenhouse gasses you won't be putting in the atmosphere when you shop at home. Yes, I am being sarcastic about the greenhouse effects but I'm sure some idiot will make that point. I'm still not sure how creating a better product is bullying though.
Did you newspaper bully the town crier?
Did the internet bully the newspapers?
Did the Greyhound bus bully the stage coach?
Did the T.V. bully the radio?
Did Ford bully the horse?
There is no bullying going on. The only thing that's going on is entrepreneurship inventing superior products at a lower price while creating jobs. Ya know, the one thing our government seems incapable of doing due to corruption and incompetence. The government of course is trying to leach on anything that is successful to pay for it's own obesity. For any working class moron who thought the government was only going to tax the wealthy better buy a jar of vaseline while he has enough money left (preferably over the internet... it's cheaper).

Did video kill the radio star?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTT3-vA25Zk]The Buggles, Video Killed The Radio Star (With Lyrics) - YouTube[/ame]

I think not. Radio has survived the onslaught of MTV, iTunes, etc. because of enforcement of copyright and royalty law. Such enforcement maintained (to a degree) an even playing field.

And this is precisely what sales taxes on internet transactions will do.

I'd rather a poor pimple faced kid retain his/her job in a brick and mortar than see it supplanted by some fat fuck sitting at a monitor making mouse clicks.

For what? A 5%-10% savings on purchases? And you think that will drive our population into poverty?

Yes...Liberal incrementalism....Nice try.
This bill is and the excuses behind it are nonsense on so many levels.
Plainly and simply, this is just another money grab.
The idea that kids will be able to get jobs as B&M stores because of another TAX is ludicrous.
Stop the horse shit.
Once again, an example of liberals not seeing a tax they did not like.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I said their would be one tax collection agency that out of state resellers would be interfacing with, not that there would be one tax rate.

If there is more than one rate per state most shopping carts can't do it. A new website would be a huge expense.

In NC and NY for example, each County is it's own tax jurisdiction.
In my home county the rate is 6.75%. In one neighboring county it is 7.25% And in another nearby, it is 7%.
In NY the sales taxes are more complex as NY allows individual municipalities to collect their own sales tax above and beyond the state base rate (4%) and the county rate.
New York's retail sales tax is a destination tax. The point of delivery or the point at which possession is transferred by the vendor to the purchaser determines the rate of tax to be collected. Sales delivered outside New York State are exempt from tax.
The combined sales and use tax rate equals the state rate (currently 4%) plus any local tax rate imposed by a city, county, or school district..
Then there is the 11 county district served by the Metropolitan Transit Authority. Sales in these counties require an additional 0.375% tax. Basically if the county in which one resides is served by train or bus service to and from New York City, they pay the additional tax.
The point is there is a myriad of different and varying tax rates throughout the State.
In NYC for example total state and local sales taxes come to 8.875%
in Nearby downstate NY the tax is 8.375%
And in upstate Warren County the total sales tax rate is 7%.
Anyone see how complicated this is going to be for the retailers?

 

[JWBooth]

oh and fyi; this is the dems that are sticking it to the working class

again

it could not have cleared the senate without gop support/votes

and only one republican under the age age of 55 voted for the bill. That means that only old white people in the republican party support this, which makes an ipso facto that this is a racist bill.

lol

 

[WorldWatcher]

Now the big question.
Who is in charge of watching the online retailers?
Who is going to perform the Audits? Monthly? Yearly?
Who is going to audit each and everyone to make sure that they are not making over the limit and not paying the tax?
Who is going to audit their books to insure that each state that is entitled receives their tax?
Just more big government.

State Departments of Revenue and Taxation already monitor businesses and audit their books for Brick & Mortar stores and online sellers operating within that state. If a business is breaking the law their job in enforcement. If I own a business in VA, I have to have a business license, must operate within the law, and I'm subject to audits by VA.

That structure already exists.

Your assumption that each an every business goes through a monthly or even a yearly audit is probably incorrect. My understanding is that audits are usually done because of (a) irregularities in reporting, or (b) random selection. Only businesses with over $1,000,000 in online sales collect the tax, they will already be incorporated as a business.


>>>>

One can see you are very Gung ho on this bill. Just wondering why?

Not "gung ho" on the bill, as a consumer it means more dollars out of my pocket.

Shooting down inaccuracies about how a law functions does not equal being "gung ho" about a bill. It more indicates discussion from a detached logical basis instead of making an emotional decision and then using false premises presented to others as to why something "can't" work.

In the early 1900's people told the Wright brothers that flying "can't be done". People said we couldn't put a man on the moon because it "can't be done". Some people confuse "complex" with "can't be done". The requirements of the law that states simplify the taxing requirements, that they provide a single access point for resellers so that don't have to deal with 9,600 jurisdictions, that the software electronically prepare and submit the reporting requirements means that the retailer is going to be insulated from the "complexity".

Emotionally? Ya, paying more taxes sucks.

Logically? People are breaking the law by not remitting taxes ALREADY required because the current system is the "honor system" after the fact. This closes the loophole and shifts the paradigm to time of sale. The same method already applied to B&M sellers.



>>>>

 

[thereisnospoon]

This reminds me..

Today I went to two different gun shops looking for a Henry AR7. Neither had it, both told me to go to Wal*Mart and order it.

I went on line and found another local shop that was Henry Dealer so I called them and asked their price on it. $289 plus tax.

I could order it from Wal*Mart and have it in two days for $220. I called the dealer back and told them I would be willing to pay a little extra to support the local business, but $70 was just too much. I said that if they would come down to $250, I would buy it from them.

He wouldn't deal. Said his price was his price and that was it. Meanwhile he was cussing out Wal*Mart for selling it at $25 over cost.

Seems to me that the greedy one is the guy wanting to make $100 profit.

When I buy from the internet, the tax isn't what sends me shopping there.

It's the availability and the cost. 6.5% sales tax doesn't phase me at all.

It's the same as when I was looking for a new hat. No one in town carrys men's hats. Ball caps, by the ton. But a hat? Not a one.

Why should I be penalized because the local shops don't or won't carry what I want?

And don't give me that crap that taxes make that much a difference. It doesn't. It's about what I want and who, if anyone sells it and are they trying to making their monthly bonus off of my purchase.

I don't mind paying a little extra to support the small business man, but don't ask me to carry your note for you.

You know firearms is a tight market these days.

What I've been trying to preach is an even board. Sales tax in store, sales tax in space.

Why give the fat fuck mouse clicker a break while breaking the balls of retail outlets?

This is the second post I've read where you've referred to on line shoppers as "fat fucks"..
Tell me, [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD4q3leE5Uw]What is your major malfunction, numbnuts? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Brain357]

The shopping cart software already exists. You realize that instate sellers already have to deal with different tax rates based on delivery address within a state right?

Patching a Point-of-Sale system to update something is not "creating a new website". Online sellers are already required to collect tax, the interface is the same - no new site required. The underlying software will just need an upgrade to access out of state tables that the participating state is required to supply.



>>>>

Actually the state I'm familiar with you charge sales tax based on the business location, not the customer. That is the same as if you go in a store, you don't travel with your rate. The carts I know of charge by state, not zip.

I just picked a state at random: Texas. From their site.

"How much is sales tax?

The current state sales tax rate on taxable items delivered into Texas is 6.25 percent. Local sales and use taxes may be due depending on where you receive orders and where the products are delivered. You should not collect more than 2 percent local tax on any one transaction. To find out the proper rate for any jurisdiction, use our tax rate search engine. More information on local sales and use taxes is online at Local Sales and Use Tax.​

In Texas you pay different sales tax rates based on the delivery address. If you are a purchaser you are receiving an order, if you are a seller you are delivering an order. New York state would be another example of different rates depending on where an item is delivered for in-state online sellers.



>>>>

I think you are right. State I had in mind changed the rules like 3 years ago apparently. That makes this even more ridiculous than I thought.

 

[thereisnospoon]

State Departments of Revenue and Taxation already monitor businesses and audit their books for Brick & Mortar stores and online sellers operating within that state. If a business is breaking the law their job in enforcement. If I own a business in VA, I have to have a business license, must operate within the law, and I'm subject to audits by VA.

That structure already exists.

Your assumption that each an every business goes through a monthly or even a yearly audit is probably incorrect. My understanding is that audits are usually done because of (a) irregularities in reporting, or (b) random selection. Only businesses with over $1,000,000 in online sales collect the tax, they will already be incorporated as a business.


>>>>

One can see you are very Gung ho on this bill. Just wondering why?

Not "gung ho" on the bill, as a consumer it means more dollars out of my pocket.

Shooting down inaccuracies about how a law functions does not equal being "gung ho" about a bill. It more indicates discussion from a detached logical basis instead of making an emotional decision and then using false premises presented to others as to why something "can't" work.

In the early 1900's people told the Wright brothers that flying "can't be done". People said we couldn't put a man on the moon because it "can't be done". Some people confuse "complex" with "can't be done". The requirements of the law that states simplify the taxing requirements, that they provide a single access point for resellers so that don't have to deal with 9,600 jurisdictions, that the software electronically prepare and submit the reporting requirements means that the retailer is going to be insulated from the "complexity".

Emotionally? Ya, paying more taxes sucks.

Logically? People are breaking the law by not remitting taxes ALREADY required because the current system is the "honor system" after the fact. This closes the loophole and shifts the paradigm to time of sale. The same method already applied to B&M sellers.



>>>>

Because tax laws require B&M stores to collect sales tax and internet sales do not collect is NOT MY PROBLEM...
Tell me, when the hell do we get a break from the insidious nature of taxation?

 

[RandallFlagg]

I hope this bill dies a guick and ugly death in the House so that it is decades before it is thought to be ressurected again.

Let's hope so.

 

[Brain357]

I guess a loophole around this would be to create lots of smaller companies?

This also seems like a big incentive to not reach a million in sales. That's not good for the economy.

 

[Desperado]

Not "gung ho" on the bill, as a consumer it means more dollars out of my pocket.

Shooting down inaccuracies about how a law functions does not equal being "gung ho" about a bill. It more indicates discussion from a detached logical basis instead of making an emotional decision and then using false premises presented to others as to why something "can't" work.

In the early 1900's people told the Wright brothers that flying "can't be done". People said we couldn't put a man on the moon because it "can't be done". Some people confuse "complex" with "can't be done". The requirements of the law that states simplify the taxing requirements, that they provide a single access point for resellers so that don't have to deal with 9,600 jurisdictions, that the software electronically prepare and submit the reporting requirements means that the retailer is going to be insulated from the "complexity".

Emotionally? Ya, paying more taxes sucks.

Logically? People are breaking the law by not remitting taxes ALREADY required because the current system is the "honor system" after the fact. This closes the loophole and shifts the paradigm to time of sale. The same method already applied to B&M sellers.

>>>>

The problem I have with the bill is that you are taxing retailers that are not in your state and that your state provides nothing in return. What does a retailer in Florida get in return for taxing customers in NY? This is simply the states being greedy.

 

[paulitician]

And they have the nerve to call themselves 'Conservatives.' No real Conservative could have supported it. It's just another form of Corporate Welfare Entitlement. They can't do better by competing, so they call in Big Government to pass a Law that helps them, while hurting the other guy. Capitalism is about putting out a better product and competing. It's not about whining to Government for a handout. That's just envy and entitlement. So now, the People will suffer. It's time to clean house in the Republican Party. Too many faux Conservatives. It's time for real change.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Not "gung ho" on the bill, as a consumer it means more dollars out of my pocket.

Shooting down inaccuracies about how a law functions does not equal being "gung ho" about a bill. It more indicates discussion from a detached logical basis instead of making an emotional decision and then using false premises presented to others as to why something "can't" work.

In the early 1900's people told the Wright brothers that flying "can't be done". People said we couldn't put a man on the moon because it "can't be done". Some people confuse "complex" with "can't be done". The requirements of the law that states simplify the taxing requirements, that they provide a single access point for resellers so that don't have to deal with 9,600 jurisdictions, that the software electronically prepare and submit the reporting requirements means that the retailer is going to be insulated from the "complexity".

Emotionally? Ya, paying more taxes sucks.

Logically? People are breaking the law by not remitting taxes ALREADY required because the current system is the "honor system" after the fact. This closes the loophole and shifts the paradigm to time of sale. The same method already applied to B&M sellers.

>>>>

The problem I have with the bill is that you are taxing retailers that are not in your state and that your state provides nothing in return.

Fundamentally incorrect, the bill taxes no business, the tax is laid upon the sale to a specific customer, the customer pays the tax, and that tax is remitted by to the state that customer lives in.

What does a retailer in Florida get in return for taxing customers in NY?

Business.

The ability to conduct business in the State of New York. If the retailer in Florida does not want to service customers in New York, they are not required to.

This is simply the states being greedy.

That's one way to describe it (from an emotional standpoint), the other way is from a logical standpoint. That is matching the paradigm of collections to be the same as B&M stores shifting from an "honor system" which everyone ignores and is unenforceable to a collection at time of sale. In addition you could also say that states are trying to recapture revenue lost to e-commerce because when someone makes a purchase in a B&M store in the state tax is collected, but when a person makes an e-commerce purchase in the state (and yes the purchase is based on the customer location) then that person is paying NO tax.

Take for example a book. I'm a Harry Dresedon fan by Jim Butcher, his last book in the series was "Cold Days". So when the book came out lets say I bought it at the local Barnes and Nobles and it was $25. With tax that would be $26.25. Alternatively I could buy the book through an e-commerce seller for $20 including shipping. Final cost at B&M is $26.25 and final cost online is $20. The purchase still takes place in VA because that's where I reside. In one case there is a tax of $1.25 which goes to support VA services that I use (police, fire, EMS, roads, education, etc...) in the other there is no support provided for those services. Under the collection at time of sale model, a tax of $1.00 will not be applied so the total cost of the transaction is now $21 with $1 being remitted to VA. With VA taxpayers evading existing law, VA lost 100% of the revenue from that transaction. The states are losing legally due revenue to support the citizens of that state because no taxes are being charged for purchases used in that state.

So while I don't like the fact that it will cost me more for purchases, I understand that this is closing a loophole which has allowed citizens of the state to evade the law concerning purchases.


>>>>

 

[Brain357]

I think it is wrong to ask a business in state A to be the tax collector for customer in state B. This is asking them to do extra work for no benefit. Local businesses are collecting taxes for their state, not other states. They should have to collect sales tax based on the home city/state of their customers also.

 

[Brain357]

Who thinks our economy needs another hit like this? Why do the big stimulus if your later going to slow the economy with more taxes?

 

[Desperado]

The problem I have with the bill is that you are taxing retailers that are not in your state and that your state provides nothing in return.

Fundamentally incorrect, the bill taxes no business, the tax is laid upon the sale to a specific customer, the customer pays the tax, and that tax is remitted by to the state that customer lives in.

So what is the difference if I go from Florida to New York. While in NY, I make a few purchases at a B&M store. Do they ask me for my zip code so they can pay my state sales tax? It is the same as me buying something online.

What does a retailer in Florida get in return for taxing customers in NY?

Business.

The ability to conduct business in the State of New York. If the retailer in Florida does not want to service customers in New York, they are not required to.

So it is not a sales tax but rather a fee for doing business.
To make it worse, it is not for doing business in that state but rather for the privilege of
doing business with the citizens of that state.

This is simply the states being greedy.

In addition you could also say that states are trying to recapture revenue lost to e-commerce because when someone makes a purchase in a B&M store in the state tax is collected, but when a person makes an e-commerce purchase in the state (and yes the purchase is based on the customer location) then that person is paying NO tax.
So while I don't like the fact that it will cost me more for purchases, I understand that this is closing a loophole which has allowed citizens of the state to evade the law concerning purchases.>>>>

We can only hope and with any luck, this bill crashes and burns in the House.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The problem I have with the bill is that you are taxing retailers that are not in your state and that your state provides nothing in return.

Fundamentally incorrect, the bill taxes no business, the tax is laid upon the sale to a specific customer, the customer pays the tax, and that tax is remitted by to the state that customer lives in.

So what is the difference if I go from Florida to New York. While in NY, I make a few purchases at a B&M store. Do they ask me for my zip code so they can pay my state sales tax? It is the same as me buying something online.

The difference is that when you make a purchase in NY the assumption is that the item is used at the point of purchase, same for FL. FL law though requires that on all out of State purchases for items to be returned and used in FL that FL sales tax is due. FL law provides a tax exemption for any state tax paid to another state with FL tax only due on the difference (if any).

The difference is that FL resident, making a purchase in FL, having the item delivered to FL is paying ZERO sales tax.

FL Dept Rev - Use Tax on Out-of-State Purchases

So it is not a sales tax but rather a fee for doing business.
To make it worse, it is not for doing business in that state but rather for the privilege of
doing business with the citizens of that state.

All sales taxes are a "fee for doing business", it's a fee (or tax) paid by the customer on a transaction.

This is simply the states being greedy.

In addition you could also say that states are trying to recapture revenue lost to e-commerce because when someone makes a purchase in a B&M store in the state tax is collected, but when a person makes an e-commerce purchase in the state (and yes the purchase is based on the customer location) then that person is paying NO tax.
So while I don't like the fact that it will cost me more for purchases, I understand that this is closing a loophole which has allowed citizens of the state to evade the law concerning purchases.>>>>

We can only hope and with any luck, this bill crashes and burns in the House.

I know it passed the Senate with about 70% support, I've not really seen unbiased analysis of it's prospects in the House. Supporters say it will sale through, those against say it doesn't have a chance. Time will tell.

There are a couple of things I'd like to see changed though:

1. Raise the small business exemption to $5,000,000 instead of the current $1,000,000. That exemption is based on gross sales which includes overhead, materials, and shipping - seems to low for me to exclude small Mom & Pop shops.

2. I disagree and would like to see the audit provisions amended. A business in FL should not be subject to audits by a NY state agency. FL businesses should be audited by the FL Dept of Tax and Revenue, if they are not paying out of state taxes as required - then deal with it.​

>>>>

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Somebody needs to tell House Republicans that their job is to do the right thing when it comes to voting on bills and it is a no brainer that the right thing is that this bill become law.

What part is a no brainer?? are you suggesting they should pass all bills presented?? Or just the ones you like?

We give enough money to and states,there is a huge difference between need and want.

What?

You think it is a no-brainer that small mom and pop I-net businesses should have to be subjected to 1000+ tax authorities to prove they never had a sale to a specific region or tax authority while giving the so called 'harmed' brick and mortar business who has to pay taxes on ONLY ONE tax authority a fair deal?

Are you brain dead?

this bill needs to be investigated and the authors of the bill charged with a crime.

I love it when government sets out to protect businesses from competition.

Wait.