How do people survive on minimum wage?

[Mac1958]

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Like we've said before, the thought that hard work, sacrifice and discipline can improve your life is simply not allowed. No way, can't be. Can't do it without the government. Nope, nope, nope.

Sad and frustrating, but they're sold on this.

.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Holy shit. Every nutter here has a personal story of triumph over adversity! It is so inspirational.

If you haven't triumphed over adversity it's only because you havent tried.

Sarcasm alert, dummy.

 

[LoneLaugher]

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Like we've said before, the thought that hard work, sacrifice and discipline can improve your life is simply not allowed. No way, can't be. Can't do it without the government. Nope, nope, nope.

Sad and frustrating, but they're sold on this.

.

Once again.....you are assigning that attitude to people based on nothing but talking points. It is not how I or other liberals here view the world. It is bullshit.

 

[DiamondDave]

I understand what you are saying Sheila, and I am not unsympathetic to it either. Whether one can subsist on minimum wage as a single person really depends on what part of the country one lives in and what one considers 'living'. But regardless of what we think is the absolute minimum wage people should earn, labor is still only worth what the market will bear. You force employers to pay more in order to hire anybody, fine. But you shut more and more people out of the entry level jobs market and force them into being subsidized by others. And you force prices higher so that the cheap apartment is less cheap as are the utilities and food and clothing.

Both my husband and I come from rather humble circumstances and we went through a number of paycheck to paycheck years in which the money ran out well ahead of the weekend in a lot of weeks. We hated poverty. Loathed it. And resented it. We didn't like it so much we were determined to do whatever we had to do to get out of it. So we did. We did that by making our labor/contribution to our employers, worth much more than minimum wage.

Had somebody paid us to be poor, would we have pulled ourselves out of the mess we were in? If we had been paid a 'living wage' to do those minimum wage jobs, would we have made the effort to learn marketable skills that were worth much more? I don't know. I know a whole lot of people don't.

Foxy, I love you, but when you made minimum wage, it bought a lot more than it does today. It's a lot easier to work your way up when you can afford a roof over your head AND community college classes, than when you can't even afford a roof over your head.

I love you too babe, but minimum wage is a number. In Stinnett Texas you can live on it. In Santa Fe NM you cannot. My daughter makes a fantastic salary where she is across the river from the Pentagon in DC. She cannot afford to buy a house there, however. On the same salary here in Albuquerque, she could buy a terrfic home and live very well indeed.

But circumstances change, what we expect as 'normal' changes over the decades, and what we all must do to survive in life changes. I have worked for as little as 60 cents an hour in the college laundry--my first full time job paid $1.00/hour--and I have worked for as much as $100/hour as a consultant (though those jobs were pretty infrequent.) We have earned much less over the years when our buying power was much more--we have made good salaries in places it was difficult to save anytthing.

The thing is no artificial 'living wage' is going to help if it shuts people out of the job market altogether or if it is inflationary to the point that nothing is gained.

Foxy... my new wife came from working in DC and living in Alexandria.. he 1BR apartment there (900 sq ft) cost as much as my 4BR house in Frederick County MD... so I know what ya mean on that

Now her circumstances have changed, and while we're still not in some place like rural Texas or Albq, it is a huge difference....

 

[DiamondDave]

Holy shit. Every nutter here has a personal story of triumph over adversity! It is so inspirational.

Most successful people DO have a story on how they worked their way up...

You certainly don't see stories of welfaring your way up as an entitlement jockey

 

[DiamondDave]

Bullshit.

Luck can get you in a good spot...but people who work incredibly hard and don't get ahead are making some bad decisions, for the most part.

People can overcome ANYTHING. But they have to knuckle down and keep going.

Nah.. I just do not subscribe to the concept of luck... every small action and choice changes things

 

[LoneLaugher]

Holy shit. Every nutter here has a personal story of triumph over adversity! It is so inspirational.

Most successful people DO have a story on how they worked their way up...

You certainly don't see stories of welfaring your way up as an entitlement jockey

Sarcasm alert, dummy.

 

[dblack]

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Like we've said before, the thought that hard work, sacrifice and discipline can improve your life is simply not allowed. No way, can't be. Can't do it without the government. Nope, nope, nope.

Sad and frustrating, but they're sold on this.

.

What gets me is the moral component that both the right and the left attach to these discussions. Conservatives want to pretend that success is invariably the result of hard work and virtue. Liberals tend to believe that, without government intervention, the opposite is inevitable. The truth is nothing like either of those stories.

In a free market, success comes to people who can provide what other people want and can pay for. That's pretty much it. They might achieve that through diligent hard work, they might achieve it through blind dumb luck. Their efforts might make the world a better place, providing wholesome products and services to people who need them. Or they might pander to the lowest common denominator to make their way.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Like we've said before, the thought that hard work, sacrifice and discipline can improve your life is simply not allowed. No way, can't be. Can't do it without the government. Nope, nope, nope.

Sad and frustrating, but they're sold on this.

.

What gets me is the moral component that both the right and the left attach to these discussions. Conservatives want to pretend that success is invariably the result of hard work and virtue. Liberals tend to believe that, without government intervention, the opposite is inevitable. The truth is nothing like either of those stories.

In a free market, success comes to people who can provide what other people want and can pay for. That's pretty much it. They might achieve that through diligent hard work, they might achieve it through blind dumb luck. Their efforts might make the world a better place, providing wholesome products and services to people who need them. Or they might pander to the lowest common denominator to make their way.

Yep, fair enough, especially "success comes to people who can provide what other people want and can pay for". That's why low-paying jobs are low-paying jobs, just about anyone can do them. A person can't improve their life if they're not willing to do what it takes to improve their skill set (not to mention their work habits and general attitude).


.

 

[koshergrl]

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Like we've said before, the thought that hard work, sacrifice and discipline can improve your life is simply not allowed. No way, can't be. Can't do it without the government. Nope, nope, nope.

Sad and frustrating, but they're sold on this.

.

Once again.....you are assigning that attitude to people based on nothing but talking points. It is not how I or other liberals here view the world. It is bullshit.

Yes, it is.

What you say means nothing...though you do say that. It's your actions that define you.

 

[The Rabbi]

It always comes down to luck. Hard work and good preparation helps push the odds in your favor. But many work incredibly hard and never get ahead and it has zero to do with their efforts or choices.

No, that is absolutely not true. You make your own luck. Lots of people work hard. And then blow their money on dinners out and vacations to Vegas.

 

[thanatos144]

Holy shit. Every nutter here has a personal story of triumph over adversity! It is so inspirational.

Must make you feel slow huh?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Holy shit. Every nutter here has a personal story of triumph over adversity! It is so inspirational.

Must make you feel slow huh?

Sarcasm alert, dummy.

 

[LoneLaugher]

.

Like we've said before, the thought that hard work, sacrifice and discipline can improve your life is simply not allowed. No way, can't be. Can't do it without the government. Nope, nope, nope.

Sad and frustrating, but they're sold on this.

.

Once again.....you are assigning that attitude to people based on nothing but talking points. It is not how I or other liberals here view the world. It is bullshit.

Yes, it is.

What you say means nothing...though you do say that. It's your actions that define you.

What actions are those?

 

[thanatos144]

Holy shit. Every nutter here has a personal story of triumph over adversity! It is so inspirational.

Must make you feel slow huh?

Sarcasm alert, dummy.

You really are slow.

 

[Avatar4321]

It always comes down to luck. Hard work and good preparation helps push the odds in your favor. But many work incredibly hard and never get ahead and it has zero to do with their efforts or choices.

Many people lie to themselves and convince themselves that they've done the hard work when they really havent done that much at all except punch a time clock.

Sacrifice isnt easy. We dont want to do it. But it's neccessary to achieve important goals.

 

[Mac1958]

Sacrifice isnt easy. We dont want to do it. But it's neccessary to achieve important goals.

Okay, here come the denials.


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[thanatos144]

It always comes down to luck. Hard work and good preparation helps push the odds in your favor. But many work incredibly hard and never get ahead and it has zero to do with their efforts or choices.

Many people lie to themselves and convince themselves that they've done the hard work when they really havent done that much at all except punch a time clock.

Sacrifice isnt easy. We dont want to do it. But it's neccessary to achieve important goals.

We hired this young kid at the store I work at and he has been there about 2 months working part time and he starts talking to one of the management like he is king shit and saying all of us are lazy bastards.....This is whats wrong with people. they expect all of us to praise them for doing their job.....He doesn't even do it well for crying out loud! I give him two more weeks before someone fires his stupid ass or he quits cause we all don't recognize his genius.

 

[LoneLaugher]

It always comes down to luck. Hard work and good preparation helps push the odds in your favor. But many work incredibly hard and never get ahead and it has zero to do with their efforts or choices.

Many people lie to themselves and convince themselves that they've done the hard work when they really havent done that much at all except punch a time clock.

Sacrifice isnt easy. We dont want to do it. But it's neccessary to achieve important goals.

We hired this young kid at the store I work at and he has been there about 2 months working part time and he starts talking to one of the management like he is king shit and saying all of us are lazy bastards.....This is whats wrong with people. they expect all of us to praise them for doing their job.....He doesn't even do it well for crying out loud! I give him two more weeks before someone fires his stupid ass or he quits cause we all don't recognize his genius.

Let me guess, you write the ad copy for the store.

 

[LoneLaugher]

It always comes down to luck. Hard work and good preparation helps push the odds in your favor. But many work incredibly hard and never get ahead and it has zero to do with their efforts or choices.

Many people lie to themselves and convince themselves that they've done the hard work when they really havent done that much at all except punch a time clock.

Sacrifice isnt easy. We dont want to do it. But it's neccessary to achieve important goals.

You are correct. Sacrifice isn't easy. Well done.