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Well yeah, your testimony is rather boilerplate for those recovering from drug and alcohol abuse. Religion is often a crutch.I find it to be comedy gold that you claim you can demonstrate "spiritual energy", whatever that is. That sounds something like the reinvention of a 19th century snake oil salesman or possibly a L Ron Hubbard wannabe.Your claims to "spirituality" are no more demonstrable than your claims to daily communications with your invented gawds.
I've covered this topic more than any other at USMB. All my claims are consistent. I have never stated there is physical proof of spiritual things. I think that concept is somewhat idiotic on it's face.
I can demonstrate spiritual energy to you... BUT... You have to give me 90 days, mind, body and soul, and most importantly, faith. I guarantee you at the end of that 90 days, you will realize the evidence of spiritual energy for yourself.
The problem is, you're not going to ever do this. Probably because you already know that spiritual nature is true and does exist. Your whole shtick is to destroy human spirituality because your heart is being guided by religious bigotry and hate.
We have physical evidence (not proof) of human spirituality. This is a primary attribute of the species and has been our most defining attribute for all our discovered past. We're very spiritually rooted and grounded, our civilizations and cultures are all built upon spiritual foundations, our entire evolutionary process is attributed primarily by a word we invented with homage to spirituality... IN-SPIR-ATION!
With the question of existence, we must first define what is meant and what is the perception of "exist" in our minds. If you live in the universe where "exist" can only mean physical and spiritual existence is impossible.... then no, spiritual nature doesn't exist for you, never will. However, if you live in the universe where "exist" means physical and metaphysical, extending beyond what we can detect with our five senses, and includes the possibility of spiritual nature and billions of other things science hasn't discovered yet, then you may believe spiritual nature exists.
Setting aside whether the existence of spiritual nature is true or false, there is no denying human beings have an inseparable and intrinsic connection to that belief. Sigmund Freud made one of my favorite observations on this, he said something to the effect of: "The human psyche is such that, if God did not exist, man would have to invent him. " Some will argue that he is saying it's inevitable that man invented God, but not so fast... he is actually saying that humans are designed psychologically this way.
But all seriousness aside, if you give me 90 days, I'm sure I can perform an intervention and separate you from your cult of one.
Setting aside your foolish insistence regarding your religious belief about human "spirituality", you continue to confuse your asserted spirit realms with human frailties relative to fear and superstition.
If it's "quotes" you want:
If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-Anatole France
But all seriousness aside, if you give me 90 days, I'm sure I can perform an intervention and separate you from your cult of one.
But here is the analogy... I am sitting at a smörgåsbord table full of everything my heart desires, and you can't see that table or acknowledge it is there... you are offering to take me into the wilderness and teach me to live off the land.
I used to be in the wilderness, living off the land, starving for something and never finding it. I remember those days well, they were sometimes very fun and exciting, I can't lie. But they were also full of discontent and yearning for something that wasn't there, something missing. I wasn't fulfilled as a person and I knew it. I tried for years to deny this and cover it up with pills, booze, sex, you name it... nothing worked.
I know this sounds like a religious testimony, but I tried religion as well, several times and several varieties... sometimes they were part of my denial process. I found the solution and fulfillment I needed in Spirituality. It's not the same as Religion, and when I try to explain this to people like you, I get the eye-rolls. But my personal Spirituality is not a Religion, and you couldn't ever follow it even if you wanted to. It does not depend upon any action by you and it's not belonging to any organized religious dogma.
...your foolish insistence regarding your religious belief about human "spirituality", you continue to confuse your asserted spirit realms with human frailties relative to fear and superstition.
Fear is natural in all life forms. Every species of life deals with fear by creating solutions which circumvent the fear in order to survive. It's hard for me to accept that humans, the most intelligent species of life, completely fooled nature and created a solution which was imaginary and held no physical bearing on consequence. A vine will grow around a brick to find a solution to the 'fear' of not being able to reach enough sunlight. The vine doesn't solve it's problem by creating imaginary sun in the shade. Some animals have an amazing ability to camouflage themselves out of a 'fear' of predators, they don't imagine some invisible entity is going to protect them. And IF a species ever did make such a conscious rationalization, they would have become extinct very quickly.
So spirituality can only be "invention out of fear" if we are willing to accept it is naturally effective in mitigating that fear and fundamental to the species. In other words, it has to work and be valid if it was "devised out of fears" as you claim.
Superstitions, we have a rich and imaginative collection of those throughout human history. Religion and superstition can certainly intermingle and often it does. But human spirituality is not Superstition. If it were, it would have never survived past the Dark Ages... IF it ever made it that far.
It is the human heart, soul and spirit which drive human spirituality.
Fear and religion have always been closely related.Well yeah, your testimony is rather boilerplate for those recovering from drug and alcohol abuse. Religion is often a crutch.I find it to be comedy gold that you claim you can demonstrate "spiritual energy", whatever that is. That sounds something like the reinvention of a 19th century snake oil salesman or possibly a L Ron Hubbard wannabe.Your claims to "spirituality" are no more demonstrable than your claims to daily communications with your invented gawds.
I've covered this topic more than any other at USMB. All my claims are consistent. I have never stated there is physical proof of spiritual things. I think that concept is somewhat idiotic on it's face.
I can demonstrate spiritual energy to you... BUT... You have to give me 90 days, mind, body and soul, and most importantly, faith. I guarantee you at the end of that 90 days, you will realize the evidence of spiritual energy for yourself.
The problem is, you're not going to ever do this. Probably because you already know that spiritual nature is true and does exist. Your whole shtick is to destroy human spirituality because your heart is being guided by religious bigotry and hate.
We have physical evidence (not proof) of human spirituality. This is a primary attribute of the species and has been our most defining attribute for all our discovered past. We're very spiritually rooted and grounded, our civilizations and cultures are all built upon spiritual foundations, our entire evolutionary process is attributed primarily by a word we invented with homage to spirituality... IN-SPIR-ATION!
With the question of existence, we must first define what is meant and what is the perception of "exist" in our minds. If you live in the universe where "exist" can only mean physical and spiritual existence is impossible.... then no, spiritual nature doesn't exist for you, never will. However, if you live in the universe where "exist" means physical and metaphysical, extending beyond what we can detect with our five senses, and includes the possibility of spiritual nature and billions of other things science hasn't discovered yet, then you may believe spiritual nature exists.
Setting aside whether the existence of spiritual nature is true or false, there is no denying human beings have an inseparable and intrinsic connection to that belief. Sigmund Freud made one of my favorite observations on this, he said something to the effect of: "The human psyche is such that, if God did not exist, man would have to invent him. " Some will argue that he is saying it's inevitable that man invented God, but not so fast... he is actually saying that humans are designed psychologically this way.
But all seriousness aside, if you give me 90 days, I'm sure I can perform an intervention and separate you from your cult of one.
Setting aside your foolish insistence regarding your religious belief about human "spirituality", you continue to confuse your asserted spirit realms with human frailties relative to fear and superstition.
If it's "quotes" you want:
If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-Anatole France
But all seriousness aside, if you give me 90 days, I'm sure I can perform an intervention and separate you from your cult of one.
But here is the analogy... I am sitting at a smörgåsbord table full of everything my heart desires, and you can't see that table or acknowledge it is there... you are offering to take me into the wilderness and teach me to live off the land.
I used to be in the wilderness, living off the land, starving for something and never finding it. I remember those days well, they were sometimes very fun and exciting, I can't lie. But they were also full of discontent and yearning for something that wasn't there, something missing. I wasn't fulfilled as a person and I knew it. I tried for years to deny this and cover it up with pills, booze, sex, you name it... nothing worked.
I know this sounds like a religious testimony, but I tried religion as well, several times and several varieties... sometimes they were part of my denial process. I found the solution and fulfillment I needed in Spirituality. It's not the same as Religion, and when I try to explain this to people like you, I get the eye-rolls. But my personal Spirituality is not a Religion, and you couldn't ever follow it even if you wanted to. It does not depend upon any action by you and it's not belonging to any organized religious dogma.
...your foolish insistence regarding your religious belief about human "spirituality", you continue to confuse your asserted spirit realms with human frailties relative to fear and superstition.
Fear is natural in all life forms. Every species of life deals with fear by creating solutions which circumvent the fear in order to survive. It's hard for me to accept that humans, the most intelligent species of life, completely fooled nature and created a solution which was imaginary and held no physical bearing on consequence. A vine will grow around a brick to find a solution to the 'fear' of not being able to reach enough sunlight. The vine doesn't solve it's problem by creating imaginary sun in the shade. Some animals have an amazing ability to camouflage themselves out of a 'fear' of predators, they don't imagine some invisible entity is going to protect them. And IF a species ever did make such a conscious rationalization, they would have become extinct very quickly.
So spirituality can only be "invention out of fear" if we are willing to accept it is naturally effective in mitigating that fear and fundamental to the species. In other words, it has to work and be valid if it was "devised out of fears" as you claim.
Superstitions, we have a rich and imaginative collection of those throughout human history. Religion and superstition can certainly intermingle and often it does. But human spirituality is not Superstition. If it were, it would have never survived past the Dark Ages... IF it ever made it that far.
It is the human heart, soul and spirit which drive human spirituality.
I'm not surprised you grabbed on to those human inventions of "souls" and "spirits" to, as you describe it, drive something you call "spirituality". This supernatural realm you have so much invested in wont be discarded as it calms an emotional requirement to placate your fears and superstitions.
Well yeah, your testimony is rather boilerplate for those recovering from drug and alcohol abuse. Religion is often a crutch.
So, for someone who claims not to be religious, you are as much a thumper as any Benny Hinn groupie. And just a thought, but please do let us know the generally accepted concept of gawd shared by Harri Krishna, Buddhism and Christians.Well yeah, your testimony is rather boilerplate for those recovering from drug and alcohol abuse. Religion is often a crutch.
So... Something that has effectively helped millions of people overcome addiction problems is now a "crutch?" Is that in the same way a pacemaker is a "crutch" for someone with heart problems? Like insulin is a "crutch" for a diabetic? Like antibiotics are a "crutch" to fight infections?
And... What "Religion" do any of these official self-help groups for addicts demand one follow? Catholicism? Buddhism? Harri Krishna? Or oooo.... Christianity and Judaism? You see.... I don't think any of them officially promote ANY "Religion" just a generally-accepted concept of God and Spiritual faith. And it WORKS!
The problem you have is that your invention of something you call "spiritual nature" remains undefined and absent demonstration. Another problem you have is one of retroactively assigning your invented spirit realms to others. You hope to assign your invented term of "spiritual rituals" to cultures and societies when there is no indication that any of them had any notions of your spirit realms, gawds, demons or similar fears and superstitions.Nope. Can't be fear unless the spiritual connection humans make is real and naturally works to console human fear. The only scientific way to make your theory valid, and it could be valid, automatically validates spiritual nature. If the species adopted this behavior to address fears and there is nothing to it, then whatever is feared remains a threat and the species has wasted energy and resources for something to no advantage in addressing the problem. Darwin explains how a species like this would fall victim to natural selection.
The other point I'd like to make is, no one has EVER defined the point in human history where human spirituality was supposedly "invented." The oldest human civilizations show signs of human spiritual ritual. You can make the claims all day, you can't back it up with any evidence.
You do understand that the Harri Krishna and Buddhists don't pray at the altar of your Gawds of The Spirit Realms Invented by Bossy, right?And just a thought, but please do let us know the generally accepted concept of gawd shared by Harri Krishna, Buddhism and Christians.
The same one that endows Americans with inalienable rights.
What I would like you to do is identify how religion has ever cured a disease. That should be easy for you, right?
Can you provide an example of a disease cured by the gawds of your spirit realms?What I would like you to do is identify how religion has ever cured a disease. That should be easy for you, right?
You keep talking about Religion and I keep telling you I'm not Religious!!
Human spiritualism has been curing diseases for 100,000 years. Emily presented an impressive study on spiritual healing and this is something the medical community takes very seriously because of how effective it has been.
Aside from that, the entire history of modern medicine is the work of humans inspired by something greater than self to find cures, create vaccines, save lives, etc.
You do understand that the Harri Krishna and Buddhists don't pray at the altar of your Gawds of The Spirit Realms Invented by Bossy, right?And just a thought, but please do let us know the generally accepted concept of gawd shared by Harri Krishna, Buddhism and Christians.
The same one that endows Americans with inalienable rights.
No, really. Identify just one disease that was cured by the gawds of your spirit realms.Can you provide an example of a disease cured by the gawds of your spirit realms?
All of them.
What "creator" would that be? I would suggest Amun Ra. Everyone agrees in the universal understanding of the Ra dude.You do understand that the Harri Krishna and Buddhists don't pray at the altar of your Gawds of The Spirit Realms Invented by Bossy, right?And just a thought, but please do let us know the generally accepted concept of gawd shared by Harri Krishna, Buddhism and Christians.
The same one that endows Americans with inalienable rights.
They may not, but they can certainly understand the concept. We were talking about a generally accepted concept, right? Because it looks like you're trying to trot off up the field with the goal posts and turn this into an argument of generally accepted religious beliefs and we'll probably never have that.
Again, for the hard headed... We are a nation of 350 million who have persevered for 250 years. Most of us have no problem comprehending "We are endowed by our Creator, certain inalienable rights..." We don't have to all worship at the same altar or have the same incarnation of God... We comprehend the concept of universal understanding. It's what makes us different from Chimps.
The problem you have is that your invention of something you call "spiritual nature" remains undefined and absent demonstration. Another problem you have is one of retroactively assigning your invented spirit realms to others. You hope to assign your invented term of "spiritual rituals" to cultures and societies when there is no indication that any of them had any notions of your spirit realms, gawds, demons or similar fears and superstitions.
So you admit none of them.Can you provide an example of a disease cured by the gawds of your spirit realms?
All of them[none of them].
So you again admit none of them!No, really. Identify just one disease that was cured by the gawds of your spirit realms.Can you provide an example of a disease cured by the gawds of your spirit realms?
All of them.
Already told ya.... ALL OF THEM![none of them]
No, really. Identify just one disease that was cured by the gawds of your spirit realms.Can you provide an example of a disease cured by the gawds of your spirit realms?
All of them.
Already told ya.... ALL OF THEM!
Actually, rituals (aka: rituals), clearly do not always have a connection to some "spiritual" (aka: religious) ceremony.The problem you have is that your invention of something you call "spiritual nature" remains undefined and absent demonstration. Another problem you have is one of retroactively assigning your invented spirit realms to others. You hope to assign your invented term of "spiritual rituals" to cultures and societies when there is no indication that any of them had any notions of your spirit realms, gawds, demons or similar fears and superstitions.
I don't hope to do anything. If I decide to do it it gets done, ain't no hoping. You don't perform ritual ceremonies without there being a spiritual component. There is no practical purpose for them otherwise. When we see any evidence of a ritual ceremony, we know beyond any doubt it was spiritually based. Every civilization we've ever unearthed, without exception, shows signs of ritual ceremony (aka: spiritualism). This goes all the way back to the oldest civilization we know of.
I don't know about "Gauwwwwd!1!!" or whatever insulting, derogatory and spiteful name you want to call it.... but people have been worshiping something greater than self for their entire existence.
