How do the non-spiritual explain it?

To me, God is a spiritual energy force.
.
being "spiritual" as an energy force described above would imply a discernible physical or tangible property, unlike non spiritual electricity that is incapable of alteration but simply exists, in fact if spiritual were not synonymous with being discernible (physical) like electricity it would be alien to living beings which it is not.

however, truth be told, throughout history no example of a Spiritual presence has ever been recorded ... or at least the "key" to its existence has not yet been correctly made available - so much for biblical renditions.
 
.....Because I don't know where the key is......
All you have is an ancient book, full of weird, bizarre, and even creepy stories, passed down from one generation to the next.
it's not that creepy.....John3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God......hardly registers a single blip on the creep-o-meter.......
Well fuck it if we're condemned already. Lol

By the way yes whenever you quote the bible its creepy.
that then would be your choice....

There is general agreement among scholars that the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) show a high level of cross-reference. The usual explanation, the Two-source hypothesis, is that Mark was written first and that the authors of Matthew and Luke relied on Mark and the hypothetical Q document.

Early Christian tradition held that the Gospel of Matthew was written in "Hebrew" (Aramaic, the language of Judea) by the apostle Matthew, the tax-collector and disciple of Jesus, but according to the majority of modern scholars it is unlikely that this Gospel was written by an eyewitness. Modern scholars interpret the tradition to mean that Papias, its source, writing about 125–150 CE, believed that Matthew had made a collection of the sayings of Jesus. Papias's description does not correspond well with what is known of the gospel: it was most probably written in Greek, not Aramaic or Hebrew, it depends on the Greek Gospels of Mark and on the hypothetical Q document, and it is not a collection of sayings. Although the identity of the author is unknown, the internal evidence of the Gospel suggests that he was an ethnic Jewish male scribe from a Hellenised city, possibly Antioch in Syria, and that he wrote between 70 and 100 CE using a variety of oral traditions and written sources about Jesus.
 
What is this faith crap? Faith has nothing to do with the damn colors of a dress. We both have access to the same info. We both know that due to the shade and lighting we cannot determine the color without more information.

Now that you're changing your story and admitting your brain has already come to a conclusion without knowing the facts, that's your problem. It sounds like you're doing the same thing with the key, as you are with the dress.

Your brain works the same as mine. When you looked at the dress, you saw it as some combination of colors, not question marks. You can refuse to divulge your perception and proclaim there is not enough information to conclude the truth, but we already agree on this. You still have a biased opinion (as do I) on what color the dress really is. This is based on our visual perception, even though we admit our perception can be wrong.

The truth is, the dress exists and has some combination of colors. Our faith is based on our opinion which is based on the information available. If you read a story today about the person who started the dress debate and they claim the dress is really white and gold, your faith may lead you to believe this is truth. However, if you read tomorrow that someone else has claimed credit for the dress photo, and they claim it's blue and black, you may question your faith.

I am sure that one of the great philosophers probably stated this much better than myself, but humans are unable to ever know truths. All we can aspire to do is have faith in what we believe are the truths.
I have faith that the Abraham religions are all made up. Before they were invented people like us debated if gods existed. We see now that the arguments theists make are sketchy and flawed but still good enough for you all and that's fine with us. No harm in believing something must have created everything we see.

It was theists who ruined the debate by claiming they met god. I have faith they are liars. But I don't mind your generic god. All he asks is that you be good.

My God doesn't ask anything. Why would something omnipotent have to ask me for something? To me, God is a spiritual energy force. I have sometimes likened this to electricity... not because God=Electricity, but because electricity is an energy force most people can relate to. The electricity is there whether you can see it or not. If you need faith, you can stick a knife in the outlet and the evidence will be provided that electricity is there, even though you can't see it. The electricity doesn't "care" what you do. It's not demanding you use it properly or wisely... hell, you can strap someone into an electric chair and kill them for all it cares. Electricity has no feelings and emotions, it's not human. Now, it's not omnipotent so we've learned to tame it and control it, and you can utilize the electricity to your advantage, that's up to you. The electricity doesn't hate Mennonites and the Amish because they choose to live without it. It's not because the electricity became angry that it caused a fire and burned your house down, that was caused by you not respecting the power.


False Equivalence! Yes, if you stick a knife in an electrical socket you'll find scientific proof of electricity....NO FAITH REQUIRED!

Your entire post falls under "Fallacy of misplaced concreteness."
 
What is this faith crap? Faith has nothing to do with the damn colors of a dress. We both have access to the same info. We both know that due to the shade and lighting we cannot determine the color without more information.

Now that you're changing your story and admitting your brain has already come to a conclusion without knowing the facts, that's your problem. It sounds like you're doing the same thing with the key, as you are with the dress.

Your brain works the same as mine. When you looked at the dress, you saw it as some combination of colors, not question marks. You can refuse to divulge your perception and proclaim there is not enough information to conclude the truth, but we already agree on this. You still have a biased opinion (as do I) on what color the dress really is. This is based on our visual perception, even though we admit our perception can be wrong.

The truth is, the dress exists and has some combination of colors. Our faith is based on our opinion which is based on the information available. If you read a story today about the person who started the dress debate and they claim the dress is really white and gold, your faith may lead you to believe this is truth. However, if you read tomorrow that someone else has claimed credit for the dress photo, and they claim it's blue and black, you may question your faith.

I am sure that one of the great philosophers probably stated this much better than myself, but humans are unable to ever know truths. All we can aspire to do is have faith in what we believe are the truths.
I have faith that the Abraham religions are all made up. Before they were invented people like us debated if gods existed. We see now that the arguments theists make are sketchy and flawed but still good enough for you all and that's fine with us. No harm in believing something must have created everything we see.

It was theists who ruined the debate by claiming they met god. I have faith they are liars. But I don't mind your generic god. All he asks is that you be good.

My God doesn't ask anything. Why would something omnipotent have to ask me for something? To me, God is a spiritual energy force. I have sometimes likened this to electricity... not because God=Electricity, but because electricity is an energy force most people can relate to. The electricity is there whether you can see it or not. If you need faith, you can stick a knife in the outlet and the evidence will be provided that electricity is there, even though you can't see it. The electricity doesn't "care" what you do. It's not demanding you use it properly or wisely... hell, you can strap someone into an electric chair and kill them for all it cares. Electricity has no feelings and emotions, it's not human. Now, it's not omnipotent so we've learned to tame it and control it, and you can utilize the electricity to your advantage, that's up to you. The electricity doesn't hate Mennonites and the Amish because they choose to live without it. It's not because the electricity became angry that it caused a fire and burned your house down, that was caused by you not respecting the power.

I found this and thought of you: Wishful seeing is the phenomenon in which a person's internal state influences their visual perception. People have the tendency to believe that they perceive the world for what it is, but research suggests otherwise.

Didn't you say you've seen or felt god? Wishful seeing or wishful feeling is what that is.
 
So God doesn't hate me because I choose to live without him? And in your analogy, is god going to burn my house down figuratively speaking because I don't "respect" his power?

I have no way of knowing what fate is going to befall someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual connection. As with any force or power in nature, I assume it should be respected. But the thing is, you can't really abuse or disrespect an energy you don't believe in.

No, the biggest thing is you'll just never realize the benefits of spiritual connection.
 
So God doesn't hate me because I choose to live without him? And in your analogy, is god going to burn my house down figuratively speaking because I don't "respect" his power?

I have no way of knowing what fate is going to befall someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual connection. As with any force or power in nature, I assume it should be respected. But the thing is, you can't really abuse or disrespect an energy you don't believe in.

No, the biggest thing is you'll just never realize the benefits of spiritual connection.
I'm afraid that as the Grand Poobah and Head Mucky Muck of your Religion of Spiritual Connections, you're just typical in your use of not-so-subtle and implied threats for not buying in to the dogma.
 
I'm afraid that as the Grand Poobah and Head Mucky Muck of your Religion of Spiritual Connections, you're just typical in your use of not-so-subtle and implied threats for not buying in to the dogma.

I think you must be delusional. ...Threats?
 
So God doesn't hate me because I choose to live without him? And in your analogy, is god going to burn my house down figuratively speaking because I don't "respect" his power?

I have no way of knowing what fate is going to befall someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual connection. As with any force or power in nature, I assume it should be respected. But the thing is, you can't really abuse or disrespect an energy you don't believe in.

No, the biggest thing is you'll just never realize the benefits of spiritual connection.
I'm afraid that as the Grand Poobah and Head Mucky Muck of your Religion of Spiritual Connections, you're just typical in your use of not-so-subtle and implied threats for not buying in to the dogma.

He doesnt seem to be saying non believers are punished.
 
I'm afraid that as the Grand Poobah and Head Mucky Muck of your Religion of Spiritual Connections, you're just typical in your use of not-so-subtle and implied threats for not buying in to the dogma.

I think you must be delusional. ...Threats?
I think you must be suffering from the affects of your Religion of Spiritual Connections.

What you wrote was:
"I have no way of knowing what fate is going to befall someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual connection."

Why is there a "fate" imposed for not believing in your Religion of Spiritual Connections?

Who will impose such "fate"?

Is your Religion of Spiritual Connections run by a syndicate of gawds named Guido and Nunzio who will make non-believers an offer they can't refuse?

Really, boss. Your Religion of Spiritual Connections is nothing more than a knock-off of other religions that claim to impose a supernatural spanking for not trembling in fear at the altar of the various gawds who manage the affairs of the dogma and doctrine.
 
I'm afraid that as the Grand Poobah and Head Mucky Muck of your Religion of Spiritual Connections, you're just typical in your use of not-so-subtle and implied threats for not buying in to the dogma.

I think you must be delusional. ...Threats?
I think you must be suffering from the affects of your Religion of Spiritual Connections.

What you wrote was:
"I have no way of knowing what fate is going to befall someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual connection."

Why is there a "fate" imposed for not believing in your Religion of Spiritual Connections?

Who will impose such "fate"?

Is your Religion of Spiritual Connections run by a syndicate of gawds named Guido and Nunzio who will make non-believers an offer they can't refuse?

Really, boss. Your Religion of Spiritual Connections is nothing more than a knock-off of other religions that claim to impose a supernatural spanking for not trembling in fear at the altar of the various gawds who manage the affairs of the dogma and doctrine.
He admitted this supernatural force doesn't care. That's a start. I don't even think he believes there is a punishment for not believing other than miising out on a big plate of ignorant bliss.

Today I had a blind date with a christian. I didn't dare tell her her god is not real. I didn't have the heart to do it. The way she talked about god I couldn't speak my mind on the subject. See us atheists aren't total assholes. Maybe when I get to know her better but I don't think you can tell a person who believes this crap the truth without hurting their feelings. Imagine not wanting to be friends with someone just because they dont share your delusion. I'm sure lots of men don't tell their wives they don't believe they just shut up and go to church because when in Rome...

Anyways she's a real sweet romanian woman. The date went well. She's real easy to talk to and made me feel relaxed and we are going to see each other again. Is it wrong to not tell her I'm an atheist? I think it isnt worth it. Just go along and pretend. Lol

I know! I'll become an atheist later. I'll even try to get her to realize its all made up as im realizing it. I'll watch the cosmos with her and ask her how it all makes sense to her. If she's devout and a good catch I'm going to keep my thoughts to myself at least at first.
 
I'm afraid that as the Grand Poobah and Head Mucky Muck of your Religion of Spiritual Connections, you're just typical in your use of not-so-subtle and implied threats for not buying in to the dogma.

I think you must be delusional. ...Threats?
I think you must be suffering from the affects of your Religion of Spiritual Connections.

What you wrote was:
"I have no way of knowing what fate is going to befall someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual connection."

Why is there a "fate" imposed for not believing in your Religion of Spiritual Connections?

Who will impose such "fate"?

I never said a fate was imposed. I assume you have a fate which lies ahead like the rest of us. Unless you plan on not having a fate?

I never said any particular fate was going to befall you for not believing, I said I had no way of knowing.

Is your Religion of Spiritual Connections run by a syndicate of gawds named Guido and Nunzio who will make non-believers an offer they can't refuse?

Really, boss. Your Religion of Spiritual Connections is nothing more than a knock-off of other religions that claim to impose a supernatural spanking for not trembling in fear at the altar of the various gawds who manage the affairs of the dogma and doctrine.

No, spiritual nature isn't run by a syndicate or person, there is no dogma or doctrine guiding it. I've not argued for a religion, I've not claimed you need to adhere to my beliefs, I have not attacked you for what you believe. But repeatedly in this thread and others, you continue to show your ass, be a totally obnoxious bitch, spew absolute lies and hate with every post, and offer nothing to the debate.
 
I'm afraid that as the Grand Poobah and Head Mucky Muck of your Religion of Spiritual Connections, you're just typical in your use of not-so-subtle and implied threats for not buying in to the dogma.

I think you must be delusional. ...Threats?
I think you must be suffering from the affects of your Religion of Spiritual Connections.

What you wrote was:
"I have no way of knowing what fate is going to befall someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual connection."

Why is there a "fate" imposed for not believing in your Religion of Spiritual Connections?

Who will impose such "fate"?

Is your Religion of Spiritual Connections run by a syndicate of gawds named Guido and Nunzio who will make non-believers an offer they can't refuse?

Really, boss. Your Religion of Spiritual Connections is nothing more than a knock-off of other religions that claim to impose a supernatural spanking for not trembling in fear at the altar of the various gawds who manage the affairs of the dogma and doctrine.
He admitted this supernatural force doesn't care. That's a start. I don't even think he believes there is a punishment for not believing other than miising out on a big plate of ignorant bliss.

Today I had a blind date with a christian. I didn't dare tell her her god is not real. I didn't have the heart to do it. The way she talked about god I couldn't speak my mind on the subject. See us atheists aren't total assholes. Maybe when I get to know her better but I don't think you can tell a person who believes this crap the truth without hurting their feelings. Imagine not wanting to be friends with someone just because they dont share your delusion. I'm sure lots of men don't tell their wives they don't believe they just shut up and go to church because when in Rome...

Anyways she's a real sweet romanian woman. The date went well. She's real easy to talk to and made me feel relaxed and we are going to see each other again. Is it wrong to not tell her I'm an atheist? I think it isnt worth it. Just go along and pretend. Lol

I know! I'll become an atheist later. I'll even try to get her to realize its all made up as im realizing it. I'll watch the cosmos with her and ask her how it all makes sense to her. If she's devout and a good catch I'm going to keep my thoughts to myself at least at first.

Yep.. It's always wise to build a foundation for your relationship on lies and deception. That's a winning plan right there, Boob!
 
I'm afraid that as the Grand Poobah and Head Mucky Muck of your Religion of Spiritual Connections, you're just typical in your use of not-so-subtle and implied threats for not buying in to the dogma.

I think you must be delusional. ...Threats?
I think you must be suffering from the affects of your Religion of Spiritual Connections.

What you wrote was:
"I have no way of knowing what fate is going to befall someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual connection."

Why is there a "fate" imposed for not believing in your Religion of Spiritual Connections?

Who will impose such "fate"?

I never said a fate was imposed. I assume you have a fate which lies ahead like the rest of us. Unless you plan on not having a fate?

I never said any particular fate was going to befall you for not believing, I said I had no way of knowing.

Is your Religion of Spiritual Connections run by a syndicate of gawds named Guido and Nunzio who will make non-believers an offer they can't refuse?

Really, boss. Your Religion of Spiritual Connections is nothing more than a knock-off of other religions that claim to impose a supernatural spanking for not trembling in fear at the altar of the various gawds who manage the affairs of the dogma and doctrine.

No, spiritual nature isn't run by a syndicate or person, there is no dogma or doctrine guiding it. I've not argued for a religion, I've not claimed you need to adhere to my beliefs, I have not attacked you for what you believe. But repeatedly in this thread and others, you continue to show your ass, be a totally obnoxious bitch, spew absolute lies and hate with every post, and offer nothing to the debate.
You theists do it to us. You make us crazy! Hard not to lump you all together. Lol

To me it seems the universe is a living thing. Suns beat like a heart. So do planets. Aren't planets just wanna be stars not hot enough to burn bright but hot in the core? Its all amazing.
 
I'm afraid that as the Grand Poobah and Head Mucky Muck of your Religion of Spiritual Connections, you're just typical in your use of not-so-subtle and implied threats for not buying in to the dogma.

I think you must be delusional. ...Threats?
I think you must be suffering from the affects of your Religion of Spiritual Connections.

What you wrote was:
"I have no way of knowing what fate is going to befall someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual connection."

Why is there a "fate" imposed for not believing in your Religion of Spiritual Connections?

Who will impose such "fate"?

Is your Religion of Spiritual Connections run by a syndicate of gawds named Guido and Nunzio who will make non-believers an offer they can't refuse?

Really, boss. Your Religion of Spiritual Connections is nothing more than a knock-off of other religions that claim to impose a supernatural spanking for not trembling in fear at the altar of the various gawds who manage the affairs of the dogma and doctrine.
He admitted this supernatural force doesn't care. That's a start. I don't even think he believes there is a punishment for not believing other than miising out on a big plate of ignorant bliss.

Today I had a blind date with a christian. I didn't dare tell her her god is not real. I didn't have the heart to do it. The way she talked about god I couldn't speak my mind on the subject. See us atheists aren't total assholes. Maybe when I get to know her better but I don't think you can tell a person who believes this crap the truth without hurting their feelings. Imagine not wanting to be friends with someone just because they dont share your delusion. I'm sure lots of men don't tell their wives they don't believe they just shut up and go to church because when in Rome...

Anyways she's a real sweet romanian woman. The date went well. She's real easy to talk to and made me feel relaxed and we are going to see each other again. Is it wrong to not tell her I'm an atheist? I think it isnt worth it. Just go along and pretend. Lol

I know! I'll become an atheist later. I'll even try to get her to realize its all made up as im realizing it. I'll watch the cosmos with her and ask her how it all makes sense to her. If she's devout and a good catch I'm going to keep my thoughts to myself at least at first.

Yep.. It's always wise to build a foundation for your relationship on lies and deception. That's a winning plan right there, Boob!

Is it so important that I have to tell her my every belief and see what are deal breakers? I like anal. Should I tell her on the first date? Maybe I will tactfully ask her how religious she is and let her know I have my doubt's. Just not on the first date.

Do I care if she believes in UFOs ghosts and the lochness monster? So why should I care if she believes in gods?

I'm sure though I'll eventually tell her. Not until after I've been balls deep of course.
 
You theists do it to us. You make us crazy! Hard not to lump you all together. Lol

To me it seems the universe is a living thing. Suns beat like a heart. So do planets. Aren't planets just wanna be stars not hot enough to burn bright but hot in the core? Its all amazing.

Uhm, you were crazier than a loon the first time I ever talked to you here. Don't blame that on me! Besides, how many times do I need to tell you that I am not a religious person? Closed-minded bigots lump people all together.

It is interesting how you can see the universe is amazing and seems to have a life of it's own. Fascinating that you are aware of something greater, though you can't define it so you've decided to rebuke and reject it. You exhibit all the classic signs of someone in complete denial.

No, planets are nothing like stars, in fact, planets aren't even like each other. Some are gas giants, some have molten cores, some have atmospheres and magnetic fields. Ours has an abundance of water, unlike any other planet in our solar system, or any other planet we've seen, for that matter.

Suns are like giant nuclear reactors made of mostly helium and hydrogen. They range is size and intensity, our sun is relatively small. Now again, I take you back to the origin of the universe, however you believe that happened... IF certain constants had been different by just a hair, suns and planets couldn't have formed. To me, this is a very important observation.

We shoot off fireworks and marvel at the beauty of the pattern of design... do we believe fireworks just so happen to do this? Bunch of Chinese stuff some gunpowder in a tube and viola! Beautiful fireworks! Of course not! The firework is carefully constructed in a certain way. It has to be built that way to get the desired effect. If there is any deviation in how the firework is constructed, it doesn't work. Now, I have no idea how to build a firework to make it do certain things... don't have a clue. But somebody does! I have enough sense to know it's not magic or random chance, even though I can't explain it or identify who did it.
 
Yep.. It's always wise to build a foundation for your relationship on lies and deception. That's a winning plan right there, Boob!

Is it so important that I have to tell her my every belief and see what are deal breakers? I like anal. Should I tell her on the first date? Maybe I will tactfully ask her how religious she is and let her know I have my doubt's. Just not on the first date.

Do I care if she believes in UFOs ghosts and the lochness monster? So why should I care if she believes in gods?

I'm sure though I'll eventually tell her. Not until after I've been balls deep of course.

Wow.. It's amazing to see how brazenly proud you are about being a sleaze with such low character as to deceive people in order to get sex. My experience has been, people with such little sense of ethics can't ever be trusted.

I guess I can be relieved this girl isn't one of my daughters. They are way too smart for someone like you. They would have culled you long before any first date. Not much gets by their bullshit meters.
 
Didn't you say you've seen or felt god? Wishful seeing or wishful feeling is what that is.

You can't see God any more than you can see Gravity. Feel God? Well, we exist.. therefore any feeling we have is caused by God. I guess I don't get the question.

"Wishful" means that I am doing something with the wish that it will bring about something else. If I were spiritually connected merely in hopes of some realization yet to happen, I would abandon it. I don't get this. I've tried to explain to you numerous times now, that I get a benefit from being spiritually connected and having a strong sense of spirituality. How else can I state that so you might comprehend? There is nothing 'wishful' about it.
 
You theists do it to us. You make us crazy! Hard not to lump you all together. Lol

To me it seems the universe is a living thing. Suns beat like a heart. So do planets. Aren't planets just wanna be stars not hot enough to burn bright but hot in the core? Its all amazing.

Uhm, you were crazier than a loon the first time I ever talked to you here. Don't blame that on me! Besides, how many times do I need to tell you that I am not a religious person? Closed-minded bigots lump people all together.

It is interesting how you can see the universe is amazing and seems to have a life of it's own. Fascinating that you are aware of something greater, though you can't define it so you've decided to rebuke and reject it. You exhibit all the classic signs of someone in complete denial.

No, planets are nothing like stars, in fact, planets aren't even like each other. Some are gas giants, some have molten cores, some have atmospheres and magnetic fields. Ours has an abundance of water, unlike any other planet in our solar system, or any other planet we've seen, for that matter.

Suns are like giant nuclear reactors made of mostly helium and hydrogen. They range is size and intensity, our sun is relatively small. Now again, I take you back to the origin of the universe, however you believe that happened... IF certain constants had been different by just a hair, suns and planets couldn't have formed. To me, this is a very important observation.

We shoot off fireworks and marvel at the beauty of the pattern of design... do we believe fireworks just so happen to do this? Bunch of Chinese stuff some gunpowder in a tube and viola! Beautiful fireworks! Of course not! The firework is carefully constructed in a certain way. It has to be built that way to get the desired effect. If there is any deviation in how the firework is constructed, it doesn't work. Now, I have no idea how to build a firework to make it do certain things... don't have a clue. But somebody does! I have enough sense to know it's not magic or random chance, even though I can't explain it or identify who did it.
If you can't explain it why assume a god designed it? Maybe a god did I it but maybe not. I use to think god existed now I just seriously doubt it. It just seems made up based on all the arguments you make. And although you make some interesting arguments the jury is still out in fact I lean towards disbelief. Luckily for me people don't go to hell for not believing in your invisible friend.
 
Yep.. It's always wise to build a foundation for your relationship on lies and deception. That's a winning plan right there, Boob!

Is it so important that I have to tell her my every belief and see what are deal breakers? I like anal. Should I tell her on the first date? Maybe I will tactfully ask her how religious she is and let her know I have my doubt's. Just not on the first date.

Do I care if she believes in UFOs ghosts and the lochness monster? So why should I care if she believes in gods?

I'm sure though I'll eventually tell her. Not until after I've been balls deep of course.

Wow.. It's amazing to see how brazenly proud you are about being a sleaze with such low character as to deceive people in order to get sex. My experience has been, people with such little sense of ethics can't ever be trusted.

I guess I can be relieved this girl isn't one of my daughters. They are way too smart for someone like you. They would have culled you long before any first date. Not much gets by their bullshit meters.
I'd just tell them I was born Greek orthodox but I'm "not very religious".

And I'm a great guy! I'll be good to her! Just like god is a lie but you guys think believing in him is good for people, I may lie but I'm good for her.

What if she's afraid of black cats? Should I end the date because shes superstitious? That's stupid and superstitious.
 

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