How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

[Boss]

But don't worry because 5 universes are born every second in the infinite cosmos

Uh, dude, the "cosmos" is our Universe. I think you meant to say "5 galaxies are born every second" although I don't know where you pulled that number from.

Definition of COSMOS
the cosmos : the universe especially when it is understood as an ordered system

No... he really means the universe. (Multiverse Theory) You have to overlook silly boob... he believes all theories are facts until someone proves they're not.

 

[Divine Wind]

No... he really means the universe. (Multiverse Theory) You have to overlook silly boob... he believes all theories are facts until someone proves they're not.

While I like the Multiverse theory, he has a grasp on it like a 12 year old. IOW, he doesn't understand it very well since he doesn't use the proper terminology in discussing it.

 

[there4eyeM]

If it isn't understood, that means there is no current indisputable explanation.
We don't understand the process of the universe coming into being.
For those who want to believe it was 'God's' doing, they are free to do so.
For those fascinated by the question and waiting for more info, there is reason.

 

[Divine Wind]

If it isn't understood, that means there is no current indisputable explanation.
We don't understand the process of the universe coming into being.
For those who want to believe it was 'God's' doing, they are free to do so.
For those fascinated by the question and waiting for more info, there is reason.

There is a difference between "it being understood" and a particular person not understanding it.

Example; the theory of flight. Aerodynamics and Theory of Flight, Langley Flying School. Includes Forces of Flight, Generation of Aircraft Lift, Bernoulli's Theorem, Ram Air, Angle of Attack, Parasitic Drag, Induced Drag, Aileron Drag, Stalls, Factors that affect Stalls, Turns, Flaps, Spins, Lift-drag Ratio, Wing Design, Aircraft Stability, Forces on aircraft during takeoff, Best Rate and Best Angle Climb.
To most people, it's akin to fucking magic. Many people don't like to fly (for several reasons), but most of their fears are based on ignorance. They don't understand why those "little wings" can lift 100,00+ pounds of airplane. Sure, many accept this on faith, but they clearly don't understand it and remain, however slightly, fearful.

 

[Boss]

There is no reason. Everything you see that alive will someday die. Including every star.

But everything alive has a reason. Science is actually the study of finding out the reasons for things. Throwing up your hands and proclaiming there is no reason is no different than throwing up your hands and proclaiming, GOD did it! That's a conclusion you've drawn and Science can't do anything with a conclusion. Conclusions are the opposite of Science. They are purely faith-based beliefs. Now, you might have all kinds of good reason to make a conclusion, it's still faith based.

 

[there4eyeM]

Everything alive is just that; reason is not directly connected. We may observe links and relationships. In fact, 'reason' is a human concept. The universe just is. One may project all the 'reason' for it one wishes. For mental health, it is a good idea to remember what the process is, though.

 

[Boss]

No... he really means the universe. (Multiverse Theory) You have to overlook silly boob... he believes all theories are facts until someone proves they're not.

While I like the Multiverse theory, he has a grasp on it like a 12 year old. IOW, he doesn't understand it very well since he doesn't use the proper terminology in discussing it.

Well.... To ME... the Multiverse Theory is even MORE incredible than the theory of a Creator God. I mean.... isn't it basically the scientific equivalent of the "flying spaghetti monster"? Some extra-cosmic entity out there spitting out trillions of universes.... one that can never be confirmed or denied because we can't observe beyond our universe?

At least a Creator God has some kind of reason or logic behind it. But apparently, this flying spaghetti monster that spits out universes, doesn't have any reason or logic behind it... it just IS.

 

[Boss]

Everything alive is just that; reason is not directly connected.

If you find something alive that you can't discover the reason why it is alive, then you haven't discovered the reason.... it doesn't mean there isn't one. Could be, you are conflating "reason" with "purpose" and those are different things.

Again, Science is the actually study of examining reasons for things in the physical universe. To proclaim something has no reason is abandoning Science for a faith-based conclusion which is simply incorrect. You may not have yet discovered the reason but you can be certain a reason does exist. That's where Science comes in.

 

[Divine Wind]

But everything alive has a reason. Science is actually the study of finding out the reasons for things. Throwing up your hands and proclaiming there is no reason is no different than throwing up your hands and proclaiming, GOD did it! That's a conclusion you've drawn and Science can't do anything with a conclusion. Conclusions are the opposite of Science. They are purely faith-based beliefs. Now, you might have all kinds of good reason to make a conclusion, it's still faith based.

Agreed 100%. Regardless if one is atheist or theist, science isn't about belief, but finding facts.

As stated previously, I believe science is the study of God's creation. Ergo, "divine" work. Using our brains to study God's creation.

 

[frigidweirdo]

....I don't say there is or isn't something. I just ask people questions and then they get angry because they can't answer.

Bullshit, but I appreciate your backpedal.

So you just "believe" something. It's easy to be right when you believe and don't know.

Yeah, so making things up and passing them off as reality is enlightenment, brilliance and good use of your brain?

Religion has always been about control (hence it's always been about politics, it's only recently, the last few hundred years or less that religion has played less of a part in politics).


Before there was a police force, there was religion.

People have always used religions to get their own way. Killing witches and things like that was using religious laws in order to police the state.

Pious IX, the longest serving Pope (well they claim Peter.... but....) in the modern era, he made "Papal Infallibility" which essentially said he could not err. What a ridiculous thing.

Then you have blasphemy, which is similar, you say something I don't like, I kill you.

Because religion causes so many problems, and is all made up anyway.

Islam is the religion of war, the US is the country of war. Perfect.

Back peddling? I've been consistent throughout, thank you.

Nothing you quoted me saying was contradictory. I'm not even sure why you quoted it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That's why Christians say "I believe in god" and trust in god. Gnosticism and Esotercis are not real christian ways. Keeps the problem: If everyone would know that Atheism is in general "only" a belief, why Atheism becomes more and more the state religion of Europe and the USA, while other regions of the world have also problems with the freedom of religion basing on gnosticistic and esoteric structures.

Says who? You? The Spanish Inquisition? The Southern Baptists? Who determines who is a real Christian and who is not, besides God, that is?

But then again God has Muslims worshiping him, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and so on too...... are they all right? If so then maybe differences among Christians make no difference. Or maybe they're all wrong.

 

[Divine Wind]

Back peddling? I've been consistent throughout, thank you.

Nothing you quoted me saying was contradictory. I'm not even sure why you quoted it.

Disagreed, but you are free to believe differently.

 

[Divine Wind]

But then again God has Muslims worshiping him, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and so on too...... are they all right? If so then maybe differences among Christians make no difference. Or maybe they're all wrong.

Maybe they are all right. Ever consider that? Not the 1-2% nut jobs, but the 98-99% who are seeking a spiritual awakening.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Back peddling? I've been consistent throughout, thank you.

Nothing you quoted me saying was contradictory. I'm not even sure why you quoted it.

Disagreed, but you are free to believe differently.

Maybe if you took time to understand my point of view then you'd see why. You posted quotes and made no attempt at saying why they were contradictory.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But then again God has Muslims worshiping him, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and so on too...... are they all right? If so then maybe differences among Christians make no difference. Or maybe they're all wrong.

Maybe they are all right. Ever consider that? Not the 1-2% nut jobs, but the 98-99% who are seeking a spiritual awakening.

Did I ever consider it? Did you READ WHAT I WROTE? Fucking hell dude, I actually wrote, and you actually quoted "are they all right? If so then maybe differences among Christians make no difference" then when and said "or" which means I'm changing position "they're all wrong", you know, I said basically, maybe they're all right or maybe they're all wrong.

Then you ask me if I've considered if they're all right.......

 

[Divine Wind]

Maybe if you took time to understand my point of view then you'd see why....

Maybe if you took your own advice, you'd see why others, like me, disagree with you.

 

[Divine Wind]

Did I ever consider it? Did you READ WHAT I WROTE? Fucking hell dude, I actually wrote, and you actually quoted "are they all right? If so then maybe differences among Christians make no difference" then when and said "or" which means I'm changing position "they're all wrong", you know, I said basically, maybe they're all right or maybe they're all wrong.

Then you ask me if I've considered if they're all right.......

Nice emotional rant. When you are done and can control your emotions enough to discuss this topic logically, please get back to me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Maybe if you took time to understand my point of view then you'd see why....

Maybe if you took your own advice, you'd see why others, like me, disagree with you.

I fail to see how. You've taken something which isn't true, then posted some quotes without anything to say why this is the case, and then I'm supposed to understand your "point of view". Why should I be understand of you misreading what I've written, and then not explaining yourself when you suggest something is wrong?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Did I ever consider it? Did you READ WHAT I WROTE? Fucking hell dude, I actually wrote, and you actually quoted "are they all right? If so then maybe differences among Christians make no difference" then when and said "or" which means I'm changing position "they're all wrong", you know, I said basically, maybe they're all right or maybe they're all wrong.

Then you ask me if I've considered if they're all right.......

Nice emotional rant. When you are done and can control your emotions enough to discuss this topic logically, please get back to me.

Incredible. You misread what I say, and then I reply back with the truth, and now this is an "emotional rant"?

Dude, it's the other way around. Your nonsense is going to get you on the ignore list quite quickly if you continue with this bullshit.

 

[Divine Wind]

I fail to see how....

Of course you don't. You don't even see how you assert your own paradigm onto others, such as myself. You don't see why I disagree with you. You don't see how your accusations are false and assumptive as I posted previously:

....I don't say there is or isn't something. I just ask people questions and then they get angry because they can't answer.

Bullshit, but I appreciate your backpedal.

So you just "believe" something. It's easy to be right when you believe and don't know.

Yeah, so making things up and passing them off as reality is enlightenment, brilliance and good use of your brain?

Religion has always been about control (hence it's always been about politics, it's only recently, the last few hundred years or less that religion has played less of a part in politics).


Before there was a police force, there was religion.

People have always used religions to get their own way. Killing witches and things like that was using religious laws in order to police the state.

Pious IX, the longest serving Pope (well they claim Peter.... but....) in the modern era, he made "Papal Infallibility" which essentially said he could not err. What a ridiculous thing.

Then you have blasphemy, which is similar, you say something I don't like, I kill you.

Because religion causes so many problems, and is all made up anyway.

Islam is the religion of war, the US is the country of war. Perfect.