How EVIL is liberalism anyway?

[Andylusion]

Like most, you call anything you don't like "liberal" while having no goddamned clue that defending liberty is being liberal.

No, I am actually pretty liberal about what others choose to call liberalism.

Just historically, the definition of liberalism was never more liberty. Libertarianism on the other hand is classically cited as meaning just that.

That is the root of liberalism, the root of America - liberty.

Permission is overrated. We just gave it a slightly positive connotation, and called it liberty.

If you want LIBERTY, you defend LIBERALISM. If you have never been taught that, or can't understand it, no one can help your stupid ass.

The confusion is because the definition of the word liberalism, and the political reality of liberalism, are two very different things.

If you take the text book definition of liberalize... it is to reduce control, and thus increase freedom.

In the United States of America, the political philosophy of liberalism, is the very opposite of the definition of liberalism.

This is why I will typically refer to those of that political ideology, not as "liberals" which is a contradiction, in favor of calling them "leftists", "left-wingers" and so on.

And the reason again, is that American Liberals, are the exact opposite of liberal.

When you have you ever seen an American Liberal support, as the definition clearly states, a removal or loosening of restrictions?

They never do. In fact the support endless restrictions, controls, and regulations on everything. We need to regulate this, regulate that, have government oversight of this, control that, prevent this. We need to have 'gun control', control over religion, control over wages, control over health care, control over business.

I can't think of one single time, in the past 15 years where a self described American Liberal, supported liberalizing anything. The closest thing would be the Democrats, Maxine Waters, and Barnie Frank, which refused to regulate Fannie and Freddie. But in reality that was the government putting controls on the government corporations from influencing the market. So even that was an opposition to liberalizing.

So I get it, that true liberalism, is an ideology of liberty. But that would make conservatives the true liberals. Since no one in America grasps that, American 'Liberals', are the anti-liberal party, anti-liberty party.

 

[Onyx]

I support liberalism and a government that works for the citizens.

Yes, which is a government that steals on behalf of its voting base .

The Founding Fathers supported liberalism and a government that worked for the citizens.

Yes.

Their idea of that was a limited government and laissez faire capitalist policies.

 

[BettyYeti]

The word liberalism means now what it meant then. So does the word dumbshit, of which you are one.

Okay, so source the historical origin that says liberalism = liberty.

John Stuart Mill - Liberal Thinkers - Liberalism

Are you always this stupid? It's rather annoying.

Skimmed through it.

Where in does it say liberalism = liberty?

You really are stupid. From my link.

"Mill's greatest fear was that people become transformed into mere “industrious sheep” and that “collective mediocrity” would gradually strangle originality and individual gifts. Being a consistent defender of individuality, he asserted: The only legitimate restriction to individual freedom was harm to others."

 

[BettyYeti]

I support liberalism and a government that works for the citizens. The Founding Fathers supported liberalism and a government that worked for the citizens.

How does that correlate with the definition of liberalism?

You said liberalism = liberty. Please explain where in history it has expunged as meaning that, and then we can analyze the source.

Now, what's your problem with liberalism?

My problem right now is that you do not recognize the disconnect between what classical liberals believed and what modern liberals believe.

Modern liberal? There are only the liberal,and the illiberal like you.. There is no modern and no classical liberal. That is right-wing bullshit.

 

[Andylusion]

The word liberalism means now what it meant then. So does the word dumbshit, of which you are one.

Okay, so source the historical origin that says liberalism = liberty.

John Stuart Mill - Liberal Thinkers - Liberalism

Are you always this stupid? It's rather annoying.

Skimmed through it.

Where in does it say liberalism = liberty?

You really are stupid. From my link.

"Mill's greatest fear was that people become transformed into mere “industrious sheep” and that “collective mediocrity” would gradually strangle originality and individual gifts. Being a consistent defender of individuality, he asserted: The only legitimate restriction to individual freedom was harm to others."

How does praying in schools, harm others? Is preventing that, promoting liberty, or promoting control?

 

[BettyYeti]

The Founding Fathers supported liberalism and a government that worked for the citizens.

Yes.

Their idea of that was a limited government and laissez faire capitalist policies.

Yeah, so?

That liberalism, dumbshit.

 

[Onyx]

So I get it, that true liberalism, is an ideology of liberty. But that would make conservatives the true liberals. Since no one in America grasps that, American 'Liberals', are the anti-liberal party, anti-liberty party.

Classically, the definition of liberalism is closer to the modern Oxford Dictionaries definition of liberalism.

Open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values:

It is also true that classical liberals were very different than the modern liberals of today. The real classical liberals can be considered the libertarians, which are often attacked by modern liberals as being idiots for supporting small government and a virtually unregulated free market.

 

[Onyx]

Yeah, so?

That liberalism, dumbshit.

Since the basis of your argument relies on comparing yourself to the founding fathers, do you agree with small government and laissez faire capitalism?

 

[Pogo]

So I get it, that true liberalism, is an ideology of liberty. But that would make conservatives the true liberals. Since no one in America grasps that, American 'Liberals', are the anti-liberal party, anti-liberty party.

Classically, the definition of liberalism is closer to the modern Oxford Dictionaries definition of liberalism.

Open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values:

It is also true that classical liberals were very different than the modern liberals of today. The real classical liberals can be considered the libertarians, which are often attacked by modern liberals as being idiots for supporting small government and a virtually unregulated free market.

As long as you keep your ignant head in the sand pretending "Liberal" means something it doesn't mean --- based entirely on your own ignance ---- you create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's like deliberately not understanding a language you used to understand.

Bizzaro.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

"Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politicians."
~~George S Patton
Gen USA

Patton was the lowest form of general..

Dr. Grump is the lowest form of poster.

 

[BettyYeti]

The word liberalism means now what it meant then. So does the word dumbshit, of which you are one.

Okay, so source the historical origin that says liberalism = liberty.

John Stuart Mill - Liberal Thinkers - Liberalism

Are you always this stupid? It's rather annoying.

Skimmed through it.

Where in does it say liberalism = liberty?

You really are stupid. From my link.

"Mill's greatest fear was that people become transformed into mere “industrious sheep” and that “collective mediocrity” would gradually strangle originality and individual gifts. Being a consistent defender of individuality, he asserted: The only legitimate restriction to individual freedom was harm to others."

How does praying in schools, harm others? Is preventing that, promoting liberty, or promoting control?

The kids can pray all they want to, as long as it's not disruptive to others or the school, and not mandated by the authorities, meaning the state or those who, like the teachers, work for the state. This is a secular nation without a state religion.

Pray away, as long as you are at liberty to do so or not do so as you damn well please. Salute the flag or don't? Say the Pledge or don't? Your call. That's liberty, that's liberalism, that's right.

 

[Onyx]

As long as you keep your ignant head in the sand pretending "Liberal" means something it doesn't mean --- based entirely on your own ignance ---- you create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's like deliberately not understanding a language you used to understand.

Bizzaro.

How about you try providing an actual historical basis for your definition of liberalism?

It would go a long way, compared to the conjecture you are using now.

 

[Onyx]

The kids can pray all they want yo, as long as it's not disruptive to others or the school, and not mandated by the authorities, meaning the state or those who, like the teachers, work for the state. This is a secular nation without a state religion.

Pray away, as long as you are at liberty to do so or not do so as you damn well please.

Basically you are free until the state says you are not?

 

[Pogo]

Whoa -- what a morass this is:

The confusion is because the definition of the word liberalism, and the political reality of liberalism, are two very different things.

If you take the text book definition of liberalize... it is to reduce control, and thus increase freedom.

In the United States of America, the political philosophy of liberalism, is the very opposite of the definition of liberalism.

That is absurd. You want a word to mean the opposite of itself. That's impossible.
I already pointed this out. Doublethink is a concept in a novel. You can't actually DO it.

This is why I will typically refer to those of that political ideology, not as "liberals" which is a contradiction, in favor of calling them "leftists", "left-wingers" and so on.

Now you've got it. Much better. Too many armchair wags here think "Liberal" is the same as "leftist". It ain't. There are Liberals on the left and there are Liberals on the right.

And the reason again, is that American Liberals, are the exact opposite of liberal.

And now you're right back to the paradox of a word being its own opposite.

I gotta wonder if summa y'all ever read what you just wrote. SMH.

 

[BettyYeti]

Yeah, so?

That liberalism, dumbshit.

Since the basis of your argument relies on comparing yourself to the founding fathers, do you agree with small government and laissez faire capitalism?

I agree with what they did, liberalism and a government that works for the citizens governed by it. We don't live in 1789 now do we?

 

[Onyx]

Yeah, so?

That liberalism, dumbshit.

Since the basis of your argument relies on comparing yourself to the founding fathers, do you agree with small government and laissez faire capitalism?

I agree with what they did, liberalism and a government that works for the citizens governed by it. We don't live in 1789 now do we?

No. We live in a far more oppressive era.

The constitution either mandated it to happen, or failed to prevent it.

 

[Pogo]

As long as you keep your ignant head in the sand pretending "Liberal" means something it doesn't mean --- based entirely on your own ignance ---- you create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's like deliberately not understanding a language you used to understand.

Bizzaro.

How about you try providing an actual historical basis for your definition of liberalism?

It would go a long way, compared to the conjecture you are using now.

How 'bout you go back and read post 1172, the last (most recent) time, out of many, that I schooled the OP on the definition?

You know, the guy who's hiding under a table somewhere because there are multiple people in his thread who see rigtht through his bullshit...

It means political power derives from the People, and not from some hierarchy like the Aristocracy or the Church -- or the State. It means government provides what needs to be provided for the common good, and then gets out of the way.

 

[BettyYeti]

The kids can pray all they want yo, as long as it's not disruptive to others or the school, and not mandated by the authorities, meaning the state or those who, like the teachers, work for the state. This is a secular nation without a state religion.

Pray away, as long as you are at liberty to do so or not do so as you damn well please.

Basically you are free until the state says you are not?

Dummy, did you never learn that the core problem of liberalism is to balance the rights of the individual against the needs of society using a government that both needs to protect all individuals and their rights, and society, and which is at the very same time also a key threat to individual liberty? Before you say you hate liberalism maybe you should find out what the fuck it actually is?

 

[BettyYeti]

Yeah, so?

That liberalism, dumbshit.

Since the basis of your argument relies on comparing yourself to the founding fathers, do you agree with small government and laissez faire capitalism?

I agree with what they did, liberalism and a government that works for the citizens governed by it. We don't live in 1789 now do we?

No. We live in a far more oppressive era.

The constitution either mandated it to happen, or failed to prevent it.

Our society is far more complicated than theirs. We have planes full of people flying across the nation day and night. We have planes that fly into buildings killing 3,000 people at a time.. You want to live in a world where you get water from a stream. No dice. That was 230 years ago. Time to wake the fuck up.

 

[Dr Grump]

Dr. Grump is the lowest form of poster.

BTM is the lowest form of yokel...