How Liberal Policies Keep People in Poverty

[itfitzme]

Yes, I did. I thought I was clear in saying we don't end welfare programs, just change them to actually be effective, and that mean taking out some the added policies that liberals put in.

Ending welfare for citizens isn't the answer because there are people in need who have no choice. We have always had a safety net, one that people only turned to as a last resort and because it didn't provide anything other than basic necessities, it wasn't something people wanted to stay on any longer than they had to.

Liberals and some idiot Repubs slowly changed it over the years to make people more comfortable and help them settle in for the duration of their lives. The incentive for getting off welfare has all but been removed. That is what I mean when I say liberal policies are bad. They encourage people to stay on welfare rather than improve themselves and get off of it. By improve, I mean make themselves more desirable to employers. That generally means at least obtaining a GED and perhaps using the available programs to attend trade school. Programs do everything from help pay tuition to provide money for daycare if you have kids.

Many of these programs have been around forever and they are good because they offer the chance for people to climb out. When benefits keep increasing, there is no incentive to attend school just to get a job that doesn't afford the same standard of living that welfare does. If people suddenly find themselves employed and off welfare, they are expected to pay for some of the things, like health care or phones, that they now get for free. Of course, many would still qualify for some aid, but they would have to earn money and pay other bills themselves. For many, it would currently be a step down to become employed and there is no incentive to add working to their day without upgrading their standard of living.

Even those who live in states where they get just enough aid to get by would find that after working 40 hours a week at starting wages, they would still have just enough to get by. People have come to expect that putting in that much effort should improve their situation, but don't stop to think that they should do that anyway. The left has insured that there is no longer any shame in able-bodied people living off others because they've pushed the entitlement mentality. I don't want people to feel bad if they truly need help, but given the mind blowing number of able-bodied people on the doles, I think they are taking the easy way out because they know they could never get a good job with their history, so they wait for more and more aid to keep them going.

Changing the rules to forcing able-bodied people to work would mean no free ride and it would prompt young people to take their future more seriously and prepare better for it by getting an education. Liberals seem to be against any consequences for bad choices, at least when it comes to their base.

The liberal policy that needs to stop is handing over billions of tax payer dollars with no explicit plan to make people get off their butts and do their part. They need to work in exchange for aid. Just like parents sometimes need to give their kids a firm, but loving, kick in the butt to get them motivated, the government needs to let the able-bodied idle people know that there is no such thing as a free lunch and don't allow them to get too comfy on the liberal plantation.

Get back to basics. No spending money. No spending EBT money on cigarettes, alcohol, pot or anything that isn't absolutely necessary. People caught misusing funds should have the amount of the illegitimate expenses removed from their monthly stipend. That way people will know if they abuse it, they lose it. We need to bring back welfare to work and start with at least 30 hours of community service each week until the person finds a permanent job. Gradually reduce the amount of aid they get until they are on their feet.

"No spending EBT money on cigarettes, alcohol, pot or anything that isn't absolutely necessary."

EBT cannot be spent on anything but food. It cannot even be spent of paper towels, dishwashing liquid, or baggies.

 

[Clementine]

Yet again, in lieu of debating the actual issue, you bring up something that is not being discussed, namely children, elderly and disabled. If you want to join the discussion and do more than post cheap shots, let me know.

 

[itfitzme]

TANF, temporary aid to needy families, like all federal aid programs, are administered by the states.

The Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program is designed to help needy families achieve self-sufficiency. States receive block grants to design and operate programs that accomplish one of the purposes of the TANF program

Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) | Office of Family Assistance | Administration for Children and Families

There are a number of other programs, like SNAP, which may have a different name at the state level.

FNS Program Data - SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)

The federal aid benefits, i.e. "welfare" are all state administered programs that have to meet certain minimum federal regulations. Data on recipients is available down to the congressional district.

A big problem with this "Liberals create dependency" narrative is that the majority of welfare grants goes to Republican dominant states.

Here is one example;

The total food dollars per capita for 2010 is showm below, summed over voting patterns.



And, amazingly, it is prodominately republican states that have the highers per capita assistance.

 

[itfitzme]

Yet again, in lieu of debating the actual issue, you bring up something that is not being discussed, namely children, elderly and disabled. If you want to join the discussion and do more than post cheap shots, let me know.

So, when the facts don't validate your false narrative, it's a "cheap shot"? How convenient. You can simply dismiss facts that you don't like. That sure helps.

 

[Clementine]

Yes, I did. I thought I was clear in saying we don't end welfare programs, just change them to actually be effective, and that mean taking out some the added policies that liberals put in.

Ending welfare for citizens isn't the answer because there are people in need who have no choice. We have always had a safety net, one that people only turned to as a last resort and because it didn't provide anything other than basic necessities, it wasn't something people wanted to stay on any longer than they had to.

Liberals and some idiot Repubs slowly changed it over the years to make people more comfortable and help them settle in for the duration of their lives. The incentive for getting off welfare has all but been removed. That is what I mean when I say liberal policies are bad. They encourage people to stay on welfare rather than improve themselves and get off of it. By improve, I mean make themselves more desirable to employers. That generally means at least obtaining a GED and perhaps using the available programs to attend trade school. Programs do everything from help pay tuition to provide money for daycare if you have kids.

Many of these programs have been around forever and they are good because they offer the chance for people to climb out. When benefits keep increasing, there is no incentive to attend school just to get a job that doesn't afford the same standard of living that welfare does. If people suddenly find themselves employed and off welfare, they are expected to pay for some of the things, like health care or phones, that they now get for free. Of course, many would still qualify for some aid, but they would have to earn money and pay other bills themselves. For many, it would currently be a step down to become employed and there is no incentive to add working to their day without upgrading their standard of living.

Even those who live in states where they get just enough aid to get by would find that after working 40 hours a week at starting wages, they would still have just enough to get by. People have come to expect that putting in that much effort should improve their situation, but don't stop to think that they should do that anyway. The left has insured that there is no longer any shame in able-bodied people living off others because they've pushed the entitlement mentality. I don't want people to feel bad if they truly need help, but given the mind blowing number of able-bodied people on the doles, I think they are taking the easy way out because they know they could never get a good job with their history, so they wait for more and more aid to keep them going.

Changing the rules to forcing able-bodied people to work would mean no free ride and it would prompt young people to take their future more seriously and prepare better for it by getting an education. Liberals seem to be against any consequences for bad choices, at least when it comes to their base.

The liberal policy that needs to stop is handing over billions of tax payer dollars with no explicit plan to make people get off their butts and do their part. They need to work in exchange for aid. Just like parents sometimes need to give their kids a firm, but loving, kick in the butt to get them motivated, the government needs to let the able-bodied idle people know that there is no such thing as a free lunch and don't allow them to get too comfy on the liberal plantation.

Get back to basics. No spending money. No spending EBT money on cigarettes, alcohol, pot or anything that isn't absolutely necessary. People caught misusing funds should have the amount of the illegitimate expenses removed from their monthly stipend. That way people will know if they abuse it, they lose it. We need to bring back welfare to work and start with at least 30 hours of community service each week until the person finds a permanent job. Gradually reduce the amount of aid they get until they are on their feet.

"No spending EBT money on cigarettes, alcohol, pot or anything that isn't absolutely necessary."

EBT cannot be spent on anything but food. It cannot even be spent of paper towels, dishwashing liquid, or baggies.

Yes, it can. There is ample proof of EBTS cards being used at tattoo parlors, nail salons, casinos, strip clubs and in convenience stores for cigarettes. They can get cash out and spend it on whatever they want. And they do. States are beginning to crack down on this, but it still goes on and will for a long time as long as people can use EBT cards at ATMs.

Food stamps are on same card as the cash benefits they receive and there is no limit to what they can buy. Allowing cash out means there is no way to know how it's spent.

If a person just has an food stamp EBT, it might be a little more controlled, but there is still too much room for fraud, waste and abuse. My friend works as a cashier at the local grocery store and she knows who the food stamp recipients are. It's common for them to come in with a friend, purchase the friend's groceries on the card, then they can be seen exchanging cash in the parking lot. Sometimes they do it as they are leaving the checkout. The EBT card holder will, for instance, purchase $200 worth of food for the friend and will get $100 in cash from the friend. It's clear that the EBT card holder has more benefits than they really need, so it's a good deal to them to get cash and the friend gets groceries at half price. This isn't rare at all.

There are still no restrictions on ATM machines, so the fraud will continue as long as people can use them just like a debit card.

I would propose going back to coupons and only giving coupons for change when a purchase is made. Even then, people were selling the coupons to dishonest convenience stores for cash. There is no way to prevent all fraud, but we could certainly curtail it. The new rules allow for billions in frivolous spending by the recipients. No wonder they don't want to work instead of receiving welfare. The cheaters wouldn't be able to scam anyone if they actually had to foot the bill.

EBT cards are issued to recipients of the Department of Health and Human Services Temporary Assistance for Needy Families or TANF program. In the mid-1990s, the Department of Health and Human Services started issuing the cards. Before that people received a check.

EBT benefits or state assistance money can be used to purchase anything, including alcohol and cigarettes. The cards can be used at strip clubs, tanning and nail salons and tattoo parlors, Whiton said.

“They can get cash out of an ATM with those,” she said.

No state in the country has restrictions on how cash benefits can be spent, according to Terry Smith, director of DHHS Division of Family Assistance.

“That's pretty much the law of the land; it's not just New Hampshire,” he said.

Woman fired for refusing to accept EBT card for cigarettes; NH says welfare abuse tough to stop | New Hampshire NH People

Welfare aid cards valid at casinos
Welfare aid cards valid at casinos - Los Angeles Times

 

[Clementine]

Yet again, in lieu of debating the actual issue, you bring up something that is not being discussed, namely children, elderly and disabled. If you want to join the discussion and do more than post cheap shots, let me know.

So, when the facts don't validate your false narrative, it's a "cheap shot"? How convenient. You can simply dismiss facts that you don't like. That sure helps.

You're an idiot and you are trying to change the subject. I specifically talked about able-bodied people. Fucking read it again.

I excluded the disabled, elderly and truly needy people who have no choice when I talked about how the welfare system should be reformed.

If you have issues with reading comprehension, that is your problem, but don't put pictures up of people I stated I was not talking about and pretend it is some kind of argument.

 

[thanatos144]

liberal democrat ideology hasn't changed .... They still believe the poor unwashed are stupid and the only way to help them is to enslave them and control the population through abortion. I want you all to think of this..... Welfare was manipulated to keep the family unit apart and poor. They still think black children shouldn't be educated because the worst schools are in their communities. To liberal democrats the minorities and the poor are viewed as surfs to be controlled through food.

 

[itfitzme]

Yet again, in lieu of debating the actual issue, you bring up something that is not being discussed, namely children, elderly and disabled. If you want to join the discussion and do more than post cheap shots, let me know.

In the Congressional district 1 of Georgia;

50.5% of food stamp households had 1 worker in past 12 months. 26.4% had 2 or more people working in the past 12 months for July 2013 data.

62.2% had children under the age of 18 years and 25.2% had one or more people over the age of 60.

Here is a nice SNAP level data link

Research and Analysis | Food and Nutrition Service

It points out that

Evidence-based analysis and rigorous evaluation are critical tools to promote effective policies and strong management in the Federal nutrition assistance programs.

It has data available for SNAP and WIC.

TANF data is available at

Search results | Office of Family Assistance | Administration for Children and Families[2377]=2377&topic[2353]=2353

For FY 2011, data is available for "Percent Distribution of TANF Adult Recipients by Work Participation Status"

In Georgia, 38.8% of women with children under 6 years of age that recieved TANF worked.

Here is the interesting number; For Georgia, 28% of TANF recipients were required to participate in work and did not. 12% did.

California was 18.4%
Texas was 26.5%.

Data is available at Characteristics and Financial Circumstances of TANF Recipients, Fiscal Year 2011 | Office of Family Assistance | Administration for Children and Families

Still trying to verify that "TANF recipients were required to participate in work and did not" means what it seems to mean.

40.3% of California TANF recipiants that were required to participate in work did. Texas came in at 18.9%.

It isn't screaming, "liberal policies make people not work".

 

[itfitzme]

Yet again, in lieu of debating the actual issue, you bring up something that is not being discussed, namely children, elderly and disabled. If you want to join the discussion and do more than post cheap shots, let me know.

So, when the facts don't validate your false narrative, it's a "cheap shot"? How convenient. You can simply dismiss facts that you don't like. That sure helps.

You're an idiot and you are trying to change the subject. I specifically talked about able-bodied people. Fucking read it again.

I excluded the disabled, elderly and truly needy people who have no choice when I talked about how the welfare system should be reformed.

If you have issues with reading comprehension, that is your problem, but don't put pictures up of people I stated I was not talking about and pretend it is some kind of argument.

The point is that your points are meaningless. What percentage of TANF, WIC, and SNAP recipients are able bodied and have decided to not work because they recieve aid?

By the time you've excluded disabled, elderly, and truly needy people, exactly what percentage are you talking about and what is the distributions for "liberal" and "conservative" states?

That is the fucking point. You have no actual information to base your unqualified narrative. You've started with bullshit and done nothing to verify if it has any actual meaning.

In the mean time, I've found tons of real data. At the federal level, it can be found at

Search results | Office of Family Assistance | Administration for Children and Families[2377]=2377&topic[2353]=2353

and

FNS Program Data - SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)
Research and Analysis | Food and Nutrition Service

And so far as I've seen so far, you are talking out of your ass.

 

[itfitzme]

liberal democrat ideology hasn't changed .... They still believe the poor unwashed are stupid and the only way to help them is to enslave them and control the population through abortion. I want you all to think of this..... Welfare was manipulated to keep the family unit apart and poor. They still think black children shouldn't be educated because the worst schools are in their communities. To liberal democrats the minorities and the poor are viewed as surfs to be controlled through food.

Your a fucking moron. You are obviously less educated than most minorities.

 

[thanatos144]

So, when the facts don't validate your false narrative, it's a "cheap shot"? How convenient. You can simply dismiss facts that you don't like. That sure helps.

You're an idiot and you are trying to change the subject. I specifically talked about able-bodied people. Fucking read it again.

I excluded the disabled, elderly and truly needy people who have no choice when I talked about how the welfare system should be reformed.

If you have issues with reading comprehension, that is your problem, but don't put pictures up of people I stated I was not talking about and pretend it is some kind of argument.

The point is that your points are meaningless. What percentage of TANF, WIC, and SNAP recipients are able bodied and have decided to not work because they recieve aid?

By the time you've excluded disabled, elderly, and truly needy people, exactly what percentage are you talking about and what is the distributions for "liberal" and "conservative" states?

That is the fucking point. You have no actual information to base your unqualified narrative. You've started with bullshit and done nothing to verify if it has any actual meaning.

In the mean time, I've found tons of real data. At the federal level, it can be found at

Search results | Office of Family Assistance | Administration for Children and Families[2377]=2377&topic[2353]=2353

and

FNS Program Data - SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)
Research and Analysis | Food and Nutrition Service

And so far as I've seen so far, you are talking out of your ass.

What are you babbling about? it is fact that people needing foodstamps has increased.

 

[thanatos144]

liberal democrat ideology hasn't changed .... They still believe the poor unwashed are stupid and the only way to help them is to enslave them and control the population through abortion. I want you all to think of this..... Welfare was manipulated to keep the family unit apart and poor. They still think black children shouldn't be educated because the worst schools are in their communities. To liberal democrats the minorities and the poor are viewed as surfs to be controlled through food.

Your a fucking moron. You are obviously less educated than most minorities.

How quaint.

 

[Londoner]

I know this will make the far left have a collective seizure, but it's true that liberal policies that encourage the breakup of families

You're missing something here when it comes to the Right's support of families. The family values strategy was your party's attempt to recapture the South and Heartland, who had been alienated by the Left's social revolution in the 60s.

Let's look at who really supports American families by listening to someone from your side of the aisle.

I'm asking you to check out the work of a Conservative commentator who gained prominence in the 80s, named Christopher Lasch. Like Eisenhower, Nixon and Rockefeller, Lasch supported the New Deal from the Right. He said that the New Deal's advocacy of high wages & benefits along with government programs which supported poor working Americans, actually helped the family in very fundamental ways. Here's how. The father's union wages and benefits were so high that it allowed the mother to stay home and raise the kids. The overall result of the New Deal reforms was the families could spend more time together. Nothing could be better for American families than giving parents and children more time together.

Enter Reagan who said that our capitalists could no longer afford our exorbitant postwar wage/benefit system. This opened the door for our capitalists to ship production to cheaper labor markets in Communist China (and the global south - places with oppressed workers living beneath brutal dictators made Nike sneakers for under $5/day). The result was that American workers, having to compete with sweatshop labor markets, began to make less and less. This meant the father had to work longer hours and the mother was forced into the labor market, leaving the children to be raised by television, or worse, gangs. As a result of Reagan's move to cheap labor for business, the average American family spent far less time together. But the capitalists and republicans were happy because corporations finally had the kind of cheap labor that truly expanded profits. They had what Milton Friedman called flexible labor markets, ones where corporations could avoid the costs of an expensive middle class worker by shipping jobs instantaneously to places like China.

Lasch, a deep conservative who hated the sixties Left, accused his party's advocacy of cheap labor for corporations as a war on the American family.

 

[thanatos144]

I know this will make the far left have a collective seizure, but it's true that liberal policies that encourage the breakup of families

You're missing something here when it comes to the Right's support of families. The family values strategy was your party's attempt to recapture the South and Heartland, who had been alienated by the Left's social revolution in the 60s. Meaning: family values was more of a populism or electoral strategy to break the New Deal coalition.

Let's look at who really supports American families by listening to someone from your side of the aisle.

I'm asking you to check out the work of a Conservative commentator who gained prominence in the 80s, named Christopher Lasch. Like Eisenhower, Nixon and Rockefeller (along with many dixiecrats a generation prior), Lasch supported the New Deal from the Right. He said that the New Deal's advocacy of high wages & benefits along with government programs which supported poor working Americans, actually helped the family in very fundamental ways. Here's how. The father's union wages and benefits were so high that it allowed the mother to stay home and raise the kids. The overall result of the New Deal reforms was the families could spend more time together. Nothing could be better for American families than giving parents and children more time together.

Enter Reagan who said that our capitalists could no longer afford our exorbitant postwar wage/benefit system. This opened the door for our capitalists to ship production cheaper labor markets in Communist China (and the global south - places with oppressed workers living beneath brutal dictators made Nike sneakers for under $5/day). The result was that American workers, having to compete with sweatshops for jobs, began to make less and less. This meant the father had to work longer hours and the mother was forced into the labor market, leaving the children to be raised by television. As a result, the average American family spent far less time together. The mother could not spend as much time with her children. But the capitalists and republicans were happy because corporations finally had the kind of cheap labor that truly expanded profits.

Lasch, a deep conservative who hated the sixties Left, accused his party's advocacy of cheap labor for corporations as a war on the American family.

wow your drank the koolaid deep.

 

[itfitzme]

Yes, I did. I thought I was clear in saying we don't end welfare programs, just change them to actually be effective, and that mean taking out some the added policies that liberals put in.

Ending welfare for citizens isn't the answer because there are people in need who have no choice. We have always had a safety net, one that people only turned to as a last resort and because it didn't provide anything other than basic necessities, it wasn't something people wanted to stay on any longer than they had to.

Liberals and some idiot Repubs slowly changed it over the years to make people more comfortable and help them settle in for the duration of their lives. The incentive for getting off welfare has all but been removed. That is what I mean when I say liberal policies are bad. They encourage people to stay on welfare rather than improve themselves and get off of it. By improve, I mean make themselves more desirable to employers. That generally means at least obtaining a GED and perhaps using the available programs to attend trade school. Programs do everything from help pay tuition to provide money for daycare if you have kids.

Many of these programs have been around forever and they are good because they offer the chance for people to climb out. When benefits keep increasing, there is no incentive to attend school just to get a job that doesn't afford the same standard of living that welfare does. If people suddenly find themselves employed and off welfare, they are expected to pay for some of the things, like health care or phones, that they now get for free. Of course, many would still qualify for some aid, but they would have to earn money and pay other bills themselves. For many, it would currently be a step down to become employed and there is no incentive to add working to their day without upgrading their standard of living.

Even those who live in states where they get just enough aid to get by would find that after working 40 hours a week at starting wages, they would still have just enough to get by. People have come to expect that putting in that much effort should improve their situation, but don't stop to think that they should do that anyway. The left has insured that there is no longer any shame in able-bodied people living off others because they've pushed the entitlement mentality. I don't want people to feel bad if they truly need help, but given the mind blowing number of able-bodied people on the doles, I think they are taking the easy way out because they know they could never get a good job with their history, so they wait for more and more aid to keep them going.

Changing the rules to forcing able-bodied people to work would mean no free ride and it would prompt young people to take their future more seriously and prepare better for it by getting an education. Liberals seem to be against any consequences for bad choices, at least when it comes to their base.

The liberal policy that needs to stop is handing over billions of tax payer dollars with no explicit plan to make people get off their butts and do their part. They need to work in exchange for aid. Just like parents sometimes need to give their kids a firm, but loving, kick in the butt to get them motivated, the government needs to let the able-bodied idle people know that there is no such thing as a free lunch and don't allow them to get too comfy on the liberal plantation.

Get back to basics. No spending money. No spending EBT money on cigarettes, alcohol, pot or anything that isn't absolutely necessary. People caught misusing funds should have the amount of the illegitimate expenses removed from their monthly stipend. That way people will know if they abuse it, they lose it. We need to bring back welfare to work and start with at least 30 hours of community service each week until the person finds a permanent job. Gradually reduce the amount of aid they get until they are on their feet.

"No spending EBT money on cigarettes, alcohol, pot or anything that isn't absolutely necessary."

EBT cannot be spent on anything but food. It cannot even be spent of paper towels, dishwashing liquid, or baggies.

Yes, it can. There is ample proof of EBTS cards being used at tattoo parlors, nail salons, casinos, strip clubs and in convenience stores for cigarettes. They can get cash out and spend it on whatever they want. And they do. States are beginning to crack down on this, but it still goes on and will for a long time as long as people can use EBT cards at ATMs.

Food stamps are on same card as the cash benefits they receive and there is no limit to what they can buy. Allowing cash out means there is no way to know how it's spent.

If a person just has an food stamp EBT, it might be a little more controlled, but there is still too much room for fraud, waste and abuse. My friend works as a cashier at the local grocery store and she knows who the food stamp recipients are. It's common for them to come in with a friend, purchase the friend's groceries on the card, then they can be seen exchanging cash in the parking lot. Sometimes they do it as they are leaving the checkout. The EBT card holder will, for instance, purchase $200 worth of food for the friend and will get $100 in cash from the friend. It's clear that the EBT card holder has more benefits than they really need, so it's a good deal to them to get cash and the friend gets groceries at half price. This isn't rare at all.

There are still no restrictions on ATM machines, so the fraud will continue as long as people can use them just like a debit card.

I would propose going back to coupons and only giving coupons for change when a purchase is made. Even then, people were selling the coupons to dishonest convenience stores for cash. There is no way to prevent all fraud, but we could certainly curtail it. The new rules allow for billions in frivolous spending by the recipients. No wonder they don't want to work instead of receiving welfare. The cheaters wouldn't be able to scam anyone if they actually had to foot the bill.

EBT cards are issued to recipients of the Department of Health and Human Services Temporary Assistance for Needy Families or TANF program. In the mid-1990s, the Department of Health and Human Services started issuing the cards. Before that people received a check.

EBT benefits or state assistance money can be used to purchase anything, including alcohol and cigarettes. The cards can be used at strip clubs, tanning and nail salons and tattoo parlors, Whiton said.

“They can get cash out of an ATM with those,” she said.

No state in the country has restrictions on how cash benefits can be spent, according to Terry Smith, director of DHHS Division of Family Assistance.

“That's pretty much the law of the land; it's not just New Hampshire,” he said.

Woman fired for refusing to accept EBT card for cigarettes; NH says welfare abuse tough to stop | New Hampshire NH People

Welfare aid cards valid at casinos
Welfare aid cards valid at casinos - Los Angeles Times

Gov programs are always working on reducing fraud and abuse. So?

The simple questions regarding

A former employee of the Big Apple convenience store in Peterborough, Whiton was fired after she refused to accept Electronic Benefit Transfer cards as payment for cigarettes. She is now collecting signatures for a petition protesting how the state aid program is run, and plans to lobby the governor.

So, here is the current status,

Two of the bill’s co-sponsors, Sapareto and Rep. Peter Leishman, a Peterborough Democrat, highlighted similar concerns during their testimony. Rep. Bill O’Brien, a Mont Vernon Republican and former House speaker, is a third sponsor of the bill.

So? Was your point? "How Liberal Policies Keep People in Poverty ".

Doesn't look like it has anything to do with "liberal policies".

Here is the article

House committee hears testimony on use of EBT cards for tobacco, alcohol | Concord Monitor

Here is her facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/jackiewhitonebt

So, in how many states can an EBT be used for alchohol and cigarettes?

So far, looks like anechdotal evidence that doesn't even support your concept.

 

[thanatos144]

"No spending EBT money on cigarettes, alcohol, pot or anything that isn't absolutely necessary."

EBT cannot be spent on anything but food. It cannot even be spent of paper towels, dishwashing liquid, or baggies.

Yes, it can. There is ample proof of EBTS cards being used at tattoo parlors, nail salons, casinos, strip clubs and in convenience stores for cigarettes. They can get cash out and spend it on whatever they want. And they do. States are beginning to crack down on this, but it still goes on and will for a long time as long as people can use EBT cards at ATMs.

Food stamps are on same card as the cash benefits they receive and there is no limit to what they can buy. Allowing cash out means there is no way to know how it's spent.

If a person just has an food stamp EBT, it might be a little more controlled, but there is still too much room for fraud, waste and abuse. My friend works as a cashier at the local grocery store and she knows who the food stamp recipients are. It's common for them to come in with a friend, purchase the friend's groceries on the card, then they can be seen exchanging cash in the parking lot. Sometimes they do it as they are leaving the checkout. The EBT card holder will, for instance, purchase $200 worth of food for the friend and will get $100 in cash from the friend. It's clear that the EBT card holder has more benefits than they really need, so it's a good deal to them to get cash and the friend gets groceries at half price. This isn't rare at all.

There are still no restrictions on ATM machines, so the fraud will continue as long as people can use them just like a debit card.

I would propose going back to coupons and only giving coupons for change when a purchase is made. Even then, people were selling the coupons to dishonest convenience stores for cash. There is no way to prevent all fraud, but we could certainly curtail it. The new rules allow for billions in frivolous spending by the recipients. No wonder they don't want to work instead of receiving welfare. The cheaters wouldn't be able to scam anyone if they actually had to foot the bill.



Woman fired for refusing to accept EBT card for cigarettes; NH says welfare abuse tough to stop | New Hampshire NH People

Welfare aid cards valid at casinos
Welfare aid cards valid at casinos - Los Angeles Times

Gov programs are always working on reducing fraud and abuse. So?

The simple questions regarding

A former employee of the Big Apple convenience store in Peterborough, Whiton was fired after she refused to accept Electronic Benefit Transfer cards as payment for cigarettes. She is now collecting signatures for a petition protesting how the state aid program is run, and plans to lobby the governor.

So, here is the current status,

Two of the bill’s co-sponsors, Sapareto and Rep. Peter Leishman, a Peterborough Democrat, highlighted similar concerns during their testimony. Rep. Bill O’Brien, a Mont Vernon Republican and former House speaker, is a third sponsor of the bill.

So? Was your point? "How Liberal Policies Keep People in Poverty ".

Doesn't look like it has anything to do with "liberal policies".

Here is the article

House committee hears testimony on use of EBT cards for tobacco, alcohol | Concord Monitor

Here is her facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/jackiewhitonebt

So, in how many states can an EBT be used for alchohol and cigarettes?

So far, looks like anechdotal evidence that doesn't even support your concept.

LOL You are one of the idiots who think they are the slave master and not the slave LMAO Your poor pathetic fool. Your masters dont care for you anymore then they care for the poor LOL

 

[itfitzme]

Here we go

while offering no evidence that low-income Americans could use food stamps to buy marijuana. In fact, food stamp recipients are barred from purchasing non-food items, cannot withdraw food stamps as cash, and fraud in the program is extremely rare.

According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), the agency that administers SNAP, recipients are only allowed to use benefits to purchase approved food items and are barred from purchasing alcohol, tobacco, and non-food items. The USDA also makes clear that SNAP benefits can't be used to withdraw cash from ATMs (emphasis original):

SNAP benefits can never be withdrawn as cash. Many States allow clients to use a single EBT card to access SNAP as well as cash benefit programs such as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF). In most States, cash benefits from other programs can be accessed through ATMs.

Fox Pretends Coloradans Can Buy Pot With Food Stamps | Blog | Media Matters for America

And that actually makes sense. The problem is with people that have no "reality" filter. You will believe anything, even the most outlandish bullshit.

 

[itfitzme]

Really, dude, you are a moron. You have absolutley nothing of value to add.

 

[itfitzme]

Basically, nothing there except the general and minimal fraud the provides anechdotal evidence of a "conspiracy" for the paranoid delusional.

 

[thanatos144]

LOL You are one of the idiots who think they are the slave master and not the slave LMAO Your poor pathetic fool. Your masters dont care for you anymore then they care for the poor LOL

Really, dude, you are a moron. You have absolutley nothing of value to add.

Um I can at least make a post with out breaking the quote tags.