How Much of a Theist or Atheist are You?

[BreezeWood]

4. Pure agnostic. It's the thinking person's position.

I agree, as a former pure agnostic I can tell you that you'll eventually realize there is some sort of higher power, assuming you're indeed a committed thinking man.

I'm very open to a higher power, of which there could very well be one. But as of right now, I see no actual proof. And neither do you.

You can't know that because you cannot know what BTM knows or has experienced. You can only speak for yourself when it comes to matters of faith and experience. You have no information or authority to tell him what he does and does not have as proof of anything.

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning. Just because it is overcast on your street one block over, does not mean that the sun did not break through on mine. We should be very careful of dictating to somebody else what he or she is required to believe.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you? And put absolutely no restrictions of any kind of when, how, or in what form he does that? This is an exceedingly difficult thing for most especially highly intelligent people to do. But it is worth the effort.

.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you?

if what you say is true then follow your same instructions and ask the Almighty to speak not just to yourself but with someone with you for them to hear the same response ... this would be the proof Mudda could not refute. is there any irrefutable proof you have to offer.

 

[BreezeWood]

4. Pure agnostic. It's the thinking person's position.

I agree, as a former pure agnostic I can tell you that you'll eventually realize there is some sort of higher power, assuming you're indeed a committed thinking man.

I'm very open to a higher power, of which there could very well be one. But as of right now, I see no actual proof. And neither do you.

You can't know that because you cannot know what BTM knows or has experienced. You can only speak for yourself when it comes to matters of faith and experience. You have no information or authority to tell him what he does and does not have as proof of anything.

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning. Just because it is overcast on your street one block over, does not mean that the sun did not break through on mine. We should be very careful of dictating to somebody else what he or she is required to believe.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you? And put absolutely no restrictions of any kind of when, how, or in what form he does that? This is an exceedingly difficult thing for most especially highly intelligent people to do. But it is worth the effort.

I am totally open to god contacting me, have been for quite a long time. I've said so many times on this board that my heart is open for the supreme being to contact me. So far nothing. Nada. Zip.
Proof isn't what you might think happened to you, proof is something tangible that can be proven scientifically.

.

I am totally open to god contacting me ...

the 1st century religion believed the only way you will communicate with the Almighty would be after you have Triumph between Good vs Evil and are told which you have accomplished ... just living a good life is what is meant for all beings and a bonus for those that aspire to be Admitted to the Everlasting.

 

[Iceweasel]

But nobody with any intelligence or education is willing to say that Jesus of Nazareth never existed or that he did not have a profound affect on humanity as no other single individual ever has had.

Whoa, you were doing until until you started preaching and insulting. There's no evidence the Jesus character existed. He may have been borrowed or cobbled together from local folklore and deified as it went along.

If you are going to insult people's intelligence then you need to back up your assertions. Clearly the religion had a great impact but all we know about Jesus is what was written long after he was said to have moved on and none of the fantastic stories are supportable., i.e., the multitude of rising dead at his death, torn temple curtain, day into night, earthquake, etc.

In fact the historians of the day not only do not mention any of that they don't mention Jesus (except the forged snippet of Josephus mentioning his brother James). That's odd.

The most important message ever and he couldn't be bothered to write anything down? And then the message gets to mankind at least a generation later in a different language? I used to buy it all but the more I learned and thought about it the more faith I needed.

What did Constantine write down of his contribution to history? Almost all was left to historians to report

What did any major figurehead from Napoleon to Lenin to Ghandi to Hitler to Martin Luther King write down of what they did? It was left to historians to report.

I wasn't preaching. I was simply stating fact. And I did back it up in Post #315.

It's a fact that one is not intelligent if they don't share your faith? You can't see how stupid that is? It's called a faith for a reason. You don't need faith if you have facts. Constantine had a Christian historian, his name was Eusibius. We probably know the most about the early church from him but I don't get your question. Hitler wrote a book and was on a bunch of video giving speeches. We don't need to guess. Gandi, Napoleon, Stalin, etc were all well recorded at the time. We didn't wait a generation and ask people their opinion on their whereabouts or thoughts. You are obfuscating.

 

[Foxfyre]

If there is loving and benevolent creator, then he./she/it has been intimately involved in your life from the beginning.

You see no actual proof.

That is the only problem you need to address.
'
Not seeing.

.

So I need to look at my life and say "you know that time I was hit by a car and spent 4 months in hospital, that was god trying to get in touch with me". Something like that?

Sort of.

If God exists he has been leading you to him trying to get through to you already for very long time.

as if you were Helen Keller.

Eventually he will get through and a light will go off in your mind and you will see with your own inner eye that he was always there.

Don't seek proof for God somewhere out there, look within.

If god is going through all that trouble to lead me to him, why doesn't he just contact me directly? It makes no sense that he's there but won't actually do what it takes to convince me.

The people talked and walked with Jesus and watched him perform miracles, and yet they didn't understand. They didn't believe. There are many miraculous things that happen to all of us and I just can't believe they are all due to pure chance. If God spoke to you right now would you believe it? Or would you think it was due to maybe mental illness or somebody's practical joke?

You see, you are placing demands on God before you will believe. That's not the best way to get acquainted with him.

God knows that in my heart, I'm simply the type of person who needs concrete proof to believe something. He chooses not to contact me. That's his call.

I understand. I also know that it is almost impossible to recognize the evidence when you put conditions on what the evidence must be.

 

[Iceweasel]

If you are going to insult people's intelligence then you need to back up your assertions. Clearly the religion had a great impact but all we know about Jesus is what was written long after he was said to have moved on and none of the fantastic stories are supportable., i.e., the multitude of rising dead at his death, torn temple curtain, day into night, earthquake, etc.

Have you ever tried to find another way to interpret those events that conforms to reality?

For instance when Gandhi or Martin Luther King were assassinated it could easily be said that peoples hopes were dashed, day turned into night, and a great darkness fell over the land. Are you old enough to remember?

The veil of the temple being removed and the dead rising from their graves after Jesus was killed isn't an analogy that difficult to decipher is it? An earthquake comparable to an uprising or rioting perhaps?

Remember, there was no such thing as freedom of expression when these stories were written.

I have no need or desire anymore to twist words into anything that satisfies a preconceived belief. Your history is way off though. Stories of all types were in abundance, many religious in nature. Christians accepted some, others not. Gnosticism was widespread until the Catholic church solved that little problem.

Ok, so you never really thought very deeply about it.


Without changing or twisting a single word, I showed you how day turned into night and a great darkness fell over the land during your own lifetime. If you re not old enough to remember ask someone who is and they will tell you that day turned into night is exactly what happened, unless they were on the opposing side.


Maybe you never had a reason before, but what's stopping you from thinking deeply about it now? Not to satisfy any preconceived belief, but to discover the truth?

Ah, more Christian arrogance. don't share his fantasies so I don't think. LOL. What a mentally weak position.

Problem is you can't read with your head stuck up your holy ass that far. I said there was no record of those events as depicted in the bible. I answered your statements, you can apply metaphors to anything. I don't share your faith, therefore I can't accept them as fact.

Show me facts, not your opinions.

 

[Iceweasel]

So I need to look at my life and say "you know that time I was hit by a car and spent 4 months in hospital, that was god trying to get in touch with me". Something like that?

Sort of.

If God exists he has been leading you to him trying to get through to you already for very long time.

as if you were Helen Keller.

Eventually he will get through and a light will go off in your mind and you will see with your own inner eye that he was always there.

Don't seek proof for God somewhere out there, look within.

If god is going through all that trouble to lead me to him, why doesn't he just contact me directly? It makes no sense that he's there but won't actually do what it takes to convince me.

The people talked and walked with Jesus and watched him perform miracles, and yet they didn't understand. They didn't believe. There are many miraculous things that happen to all of us and I just can't believe they are all due to pure chance. If God spoke to you right now would you believe it? Or would you think it was due to maybe mental illness or somebody's practical joke?

You see, you are placing demands on God before you will believe. That's not the best way to get acquainted with him.

God knows that in my heart, I'm simply the type of person who needs concrete proof to believe something. He chooses not to contact me. That's his call.

I understand. I also know that it is almost impossible to recognize the evidence when you put conditions on what the evidence must be.

It's easy. People around the globe can look at the evidence and reach the same conclusion. You offer faith as evidence so no two humans will come to the same conclusions.

 

[Iceweasel]

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning.

But any seeing person has seen their shadow so it isn't a leap. Fail.

 

[Foxfyre]

4. Pure agnostic. It's the thinking person's position.

I agree, as a former pure agnostic I can tell you that you'll eventually realize there is some sort of higher power, assuming you're indeed a committed thinking man.

I'm very open to a higher power, of which there could very well be one. But as of right now, I see no actual proof. And neither do you.

You can't know that because you cannot know what BTM knows or has experienced. You can only speak for yourself when it comes to matters of faith and experience. You have no information or authority to tell him what he does and does not have as proof of anything.

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning. Just because it is overcast on your street one block over, does not mean that the sun did not break through on mine. We should be very careful of dictating to somebody else what he or she is required to believe.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you? And put absolutely no restrictions of any kind of when, how, or in what form he does that? This is an exceedingly difficult thing for most especially highly intelligent people to do. But it is worth the effort.

.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you?

if what you say is true then follow your same instructions and ask the Almighty to speak not just to yourself but with someone with you for them to hear the same response ... this would be the proof Mudda could not refute. is there any irrefutable proof you have to offer.

I'm afraid ordering the Almighty to do anything is way beyond my pay grade. I however have experienced such confirmation myself, but in a way that would be incomprehensible to somebody who had never experienced it.

 

[Mudda]

So I need to look at my life and say "you know that time I was hit by a car and spent 4 months in hospital, that was god trying to get in touch with me". Something like that?

Sort of.

If God exists he has been leading you to him trying to get through to you already for very long time.

as if you were Helen Keller.

Eventually he will get through and a light will go off in your mind and you will see with your own inner eye that he was always there.

Don't seek proof for God somewhere out there, look within.

If god is going through all that trouble to lead me to him, why doesn't he just contact me directly? It makes no sense that he's there but won't actually do what it takes to convince me.

The people talked and walked with Jesus and watched him perform miracles, and yet they didn't understand. They didn't believe. There are many miraculous things that happen to all of us and I just can't believe they are all due to pure chance. If God spoke to you right now would you believe it? Or would you think it was due to maybe mental illness or somebody's practical joke?

You see, you are placing demands on God before you will believe. That's not the best way to get acquainted with him.

God knows that in my heart, I'm simply the type of person who needs concrete proof to believe something. He chooses not to contact me. That's his call.

I understand. I also know that it is almost impossible to recognize the evidence when you put conditions on what the evidence must be.

From god it can be anything that he knows will convince me. Since he already knows what will do the trick, right?

 

[Mudda]

4. Pure agnostic. It's the thinking person's position.

I agree, as a former pure agnostic I can tell you that you'll eventually realize there is some sort of higher power, assuming you're indeed a committed thinking man.

I'm very open to a higher power, of which there could very well be one. But as of right now, I see no actual proof. And neither do you.

You can't know that because you cannot know what BTM knows or has experienced. You can only speak for yourself when it comes to matters of faith and experience. You have no information or authority to tell him what he does and does not have as proof of anything.

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning. Just because it is overcast on your street one block over, does not mean that the sun did not break through on mine. We should be very careful of dictating to somebody else what he or she is required to believe.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you? And put absolutely no restrictions of any kind of when, how, or in what form he does that? This is an exceedingly difficult thing for most especially highly intelligent people to do. But it is worth the effort.

.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you?

if what you say is true then follow your same instructions and ask the Almighty to speak not just to yourself but with someone with you for them to hear the same response ... this would be the proof Mudda could not refute. is there any irrefutable proof you have to offer.

I'm afraid ordering the Almighty to do anything is way beyond my pay grade. I however have experienced such confirmation myself, but in a way that would be incomprehensible to somebody who had never experienced it.

I'd be interested to hear that story of how god contacted you, if you don't mind sharing.

 

[Foxfyre]

4. Pure agnostic. It's the thinking person's position.

I agree, as a former pure agnostic I can tell you that you'll eventually realize there is some sort of higher power, assuming you're indeed a committed thinking man.

I'm very open to a higher power, of which there could very well be one. But as of right now, I see no actual proof. And neither do you.

You can't know that because you cannot know what BTM knows or has experienced. You can only speak for yourself when it comes to matters of faith and experience. You have no information or authority to tell him what he does and does not have as proof of anything.

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning. Just because it is overcast on your street one block over, does not mean that the sun did not break through on mine. We should be very careful of dictating to somebody else what he or she is required to believe.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you? And put absolutely no restrictions of any kind of when, how, or in what form he does that? This is an exceedingly difficult thing for most especially highly intelligent people to do. But it is worth the effort.

I am totally open to god contacting me, have been for quite a long time. I've said so many times on this board that my heart is open for the supreme being to contact me. So far nothing. Nada. Zip.
Proof isn't what you might think happened to you, proof is something tangible that can be proven scientifically.

.

I am totally open to god contacting me ...

the 1st century religion believed the only way you will communicate with the Almighty would be after you have Triumph between Good vs Evil and are told which you have accomplished ... just living a good life is what is meant for all beings and a bonus for those that aspire to be Admitted to the Everlasting.

There are all manner of beliefs and my belief is there is no absolute way that God communicates with people--he is not a computer program that can be expected to do it the same way every time. As for what to expect in the hereafter, I don't presume to have a clue. All I know is that I have certainty that there is a hereafter and I have no fear of experiencing it

 

[Foxfyre]

But nobody with any intelligence or education is willing to say that Jesus of Nazareth never existed or that he did not have a profound affect on humanity as no other single individual ever has had.

Whoa, you were doing until until you started preaching and insulting. There's no evidence the Jesus character existed. He may have been borrowed or cobbled together from local folklore and deified as it went along.

If you are going to insult people's intelligence then you need to back up your assertions. Clearly the religion had a great impact but all we know about Jesus is what was written long after he was said to have moved on and none of the fantastic stories are supportable., i.e., the multitude of rising dead at his death, torn temple curtain, day into night, earthquake, etc.

In fact the historians of the day not only do not mention any of that they don't mention Jesus (except the forged snippet of Josephus mentioning his brother James). That's odd.

The most important message ever and he couldn't be bothered to write anything down? And then the message gets to mankind at least a generation later in a different language? I used to buy it all but the more I learned and thought about it the more faith I needed.

What did Constantine write down of his contribution to history? Almost all was left to historians to report

What did any major figurehead from Napoleon to Lenin to Ghandi to Hitler to Martin Luther King write down of what they did? It was left to historians to report.

I wasn't preaching. I was simply stating fact. And I did back it up in Post #315.

It's a fact that one is not intelligent if they don't share your faith? You can't see how stupid that is? It's called a faith for a reason. You don't need faith if you have facts. Constantine had a Christian historian, his name was Eusibius. We probably know the most about the early church from him but I don't get your question. Hitler wrote a book and was on a bunch of video giving speeches. We don't need to guess. Gandi, Napoleon, Stalin, etc were all well recorded at the time. We didn't wait a generation and ask people their opinion on their whereabouts or thoughts. You are obfuscating.

Believe what you wish. I'll stand by my post.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sort of.

If God exists he has been leading you to him trying to get through to you already for very long time.

as if you were Helen Keller.

Eventually he will get through and a light will go off in your mind and you will see with your own inner eye that he was always there.

Don't seek proof for God somewhere out there, look within.

If god is going through all that trouble to lead me to him, why doesn't he just contact me directly? It makes no sense that he's there but won't actually do what it takes to convince me.

The people talked and walked with Jesus and watched him perform miracles, and yet they didn't understand. They didn't believe. There are many miraculous things that happen to all of us and I just can't believe they are all due to pure chance. If God spoke to you right now would you believe it? Or would you think it was due to maybe mental illness or somebody's practical joke?

You see, you are placing demands on God before you will believe. That's not the best way to get acquainted with him.

God knows that in my heart, I'm simply the type of person who needs concrete proof to believe something. He chooses not to contact me. That's his call.

I understand. I also know that it is almost impossible to recognize the evidence when you put conditions on what the evidence must be.

It's easy. People around the globe can look at the evidence and reach the same conclusion. You offer faith as evidence so no two humans will come to the same conclusions.

Believe what you wish. I'll stand by my post.

 

[Mudda]

I agree, as a former pure agnostic I can tell you that you'll eventually realize there is some sort of higher power, assuming you're indeed a committed thinking man.

I'm very open to a higher power, of which there could very well be one. But as of right now, I see no actual proof. And neither do you.

You can't know that because you cannot know what BTM knows or has experienced. You can only speak for yourself when it comes to matters of faith and experience. You have no information or authority to tell him what he does and does not have as proof of anything.

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning. Just because it is overcast on your street one block over, does not mean that the sun did not break through on mine. We should be very careful of dictating to somebody else what he or she is required to believe.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you? And put absolutely no restrictions of any kind of when, how, or in what form he does that? This is an exceedingly difficult thing for most especially highly intelligent people to do. But it is worth the effort.

I am totally open to god contacting me, have been for quite a long time. I've said so many times on this board that my heart is open for the supreme being to contact me. So far nothing. Nada. Zip.
Proof isn't what you might think happened to you, proof is something tangible that can be proven scientifically.

.

I am totally open to god contacting me ...

the 1st century religion believed the only way you will communicate with the Almighty would be after you have Triumph between Good vs Evil and are told which you have accomplished ... just living a good life is what is meant for all beings and a bonus for those that aspire to be Admitted to the Everlasting.

There are all manner of beliefs and my belief is there is no absolute way that God communicates with people--he is not a computer program that can be expected to do it the same way every time. As for what to expect in the hereafter, I don't presume to have a clue. All I know is that I have certainty that there is a hereafter and I have no fear of experiencing it

Some people say that you'll see a bright light that you'll go towards when you die. Others say that the light is your head coming out of the womb into daylight on your next life.

 

[Foxfyre]

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning.

But any seeing person has seen their shadow so it isn't a leap. Fail.

Not a fail if your experience on the next block is different from mine on my block. You still have to take it on faith that I had a different experience than you did.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sort of.

If God exists he has been leading you to him trying to get through to you already for very long time.

as if you were Helen Keller.

Eventually he will get through and a light will go off in your mind and you will see with your own inner eye that he was always there.

Don't seek proof for God somewhere out there, look within.

If god is going through all that trouble to lead me to him, why doesn't he just contact me directly? It makes no sense that he's there but won't actually do what it takes to convince me.

The people talked and walked with Jesus and watched him perform miracles, and yet they didn't understand. They didn't believe. There are many miraculous things that happen to all of us and I just can't believe they are all due to pure chance. If God spoke to you right now would you believe it? Or would you think it was due to maybe mental illness or somebody's practical joke?

You see, you are placing demands on God before you will believe. That's not the best way to get acquainted with him.

God knows that in my heart, I'm simply the type of person who needs concrete proof to believe something. He chooses not to contact me. That's his call.

I understand. I also know that it is almost impossible to recognize the evidence when you put conditions on what the evidence must be.

From god it can be anything that he knows will convince me. Since he already knows what will do the trick, right?

I do not presume to know the ways of God. I can only testify to what I have personally experienced. And I believe others who had a different experience that allowed them to know that God is. Your experience may indeed be very different from mine. But you are far less likely to have it if you refuse to recognize it and/or if you put conditions on what God must do to convince you.

 

[Foxfyre]

I agree, as a former pure agnostic I can tell you that you'll eventually realize there is some sort of higher power, assuming you're indeed a committed thinking man.

I'm very open to a higher power, of which there could very well be one. But as of right now, I see no actual proof. And neither do you.

You can't know that because you cannot know what BTM knows or has experienced. You can only speak for yourself when it comes to matters of faith and experience. You have no information or authority to tell him what he does and does not have as proof of anything.

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning. Just because it is overcast on your street one block over, does not mean that the sun did not break through on mine. We should be very careful of dictating to somebody else what he or she is required to believe.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you? And put absolutely no restrictions of any kind of when, how, or in what form he does that? This is an exceedingly difficult thing for most especially highly intelligent people to do. But it is worth the effort.

.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you?

if what you say is true then follow your same instructions and ask the Almighty to speak not just to yourself but with someone with you for them to hear the same response ... this would be the proof Mudda could not refute. is there any irrefutable proof you have to offer.

I'm afraid ordering the Almighty to do anything is way beyond my pay grade. I however have experienced such confirmation myself, but in a way that would be incomprehensible to somebody who had never experienced it.

I'd be interested to hear that story of how god contacted you, if you don't mind sharing.

I was one of the lucky ones who have always believed or I cannot recall a time that I did not. But I have had confirmation along the way too, and reassurance that I was on the right track, or that I was the one called to do something.

One example: I was on a group ministry team in another state. There were about 30 or 40 of us in the room and the leader said she did not know who was to be the speaker that morning. She asked us all to pray. At some point I felt a presence--I cannot explain it but it was very real--and I knew I had been selected. A moment later, the leader named me. There is no way the others put that into her head telepathically or otherwise because they didn't really know me at all or what I had to offer. Nor did she for that matter.

There have been many other instances of answered prayer, information furnished, solutions offered, suggestions that when followed yielded great things. It is so difficult to explain to those who have not experienced it.

 

[Iceweasel]

But nobody with any intelligence or education is willing to say that Jesus of Nazareth never existed or that he did not have a profound affect on humanity as no other single individual ever has had.

Whoa, you were doing until until you started preaching and insulting. There's no evidence the Jesus character existed. He may have been borrowed or cobbled together from local folklore and deified as it went along.

If you are going to insult people's intelligence then you need to back up your assertions. Clearly the religion had a great impact but all we know about Jesus is what was written long after he was said to have moved on and none of the fantastic stories are supportable., i.e., the multitude of rising dead at his death, torn temple curtain, day into night, earthquake, etc.

In fact the historians of the day not only do not mention any of that they don't mention Jesus (except the forged snippet of Josephus mentioning his brother James). That's odd.

The most important message ever and he couldn't be bothered to write anything down? And then the message gets to mankind at least a generation later in a different language? I used to buy it all but the more I learned and thought about it the more faith I needed.

What did Constantine write down of his contribution to history? Almost all was left to historians to report

What did any major figurehead from Napoleon to Lenin to Ghandi to Hitler to Martin Luther King write down of what they did? It was left to historians to report.

I wasn't preaching. I was simply stating fact. And I did back it up in Post #315.

It's a fact that one is not intelligent if they don't share your faith? You can't see how stupid that is? It's called a faith for a reason. You don't need faith if you have facts. Constantine had a Christian historian, his name was Eusibius. We probably know the most about the early church from him but I don't get your question. Hitler wrote a book and was on a bunch of video giving speeches. We don't need to guess. Gandi, Napoleon, Stalin, etc were all well recorded at the time. We didn't wait a generation and ask people their opinion on their whereabouts or thoughts. You are obfuscating.

Believe what you wish. I'll stand by my post.

Thanks for the permission but you made statements of faith and declared non believers as unintelligent. That's just silly.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm very open to a higher power, of which there could very well be one. But as of right now, I see no actual proof. And neither do you.

You can't know that because you cannot know what BTM knows or has experienced. You can only speak for yourself when it comes to matters of faith and experience. You have no information or authority to tell him what he does and does not have as proof of anything.

My experience is proof that I saw my shadow on the sidewalk this morning. But I cannot prove that I was outside or saw my shadow to another living soul because nobody saw me outside this morning. Just because it is overcast on your street one block over, does not mean that the sun did not break through on mine. We should be very careful of dictating to somebody else what he or she is required to believe.

But you say you are open to the possibility. Would you be willing to put it to the test? Ask God to make himself known to you? And put absolutely no restrictions of any kind of when, how, or in what form he does that? This is an exceedingly difficult thing for most especially highly intelligent people to do. But it is worth the effort.

I am totally open to god contacting me, have been for quite a long time. I've said so many times on this board that my heart is open for the supreme being to contact me. So far nothing. Nada. Zip.
Proof isn't what you might think happened to you, proof is something tangible that can be proven scientifically.

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I am totally open to god contacting me ...

the 1st century religion believed the only way you will communicate with the Almighty would be after you have Triumph between Good vs Evil and are told which you have accomplished ... just living a good life is what is meant for all beings and a bonus for those that aspire to be Admitted to the Everlasting.

There are all manner of beliefs and my belief is there is no absolute way that God communicates with people--he is not a computer program that can be expected to do it the same way every time. As for what to expect in the hereafter, I don't presume to have a clue. All I know is that I have certainty that there is a hereafter and I have no fear of experiencing it

Some people say that you'll see a bright light that you'll go towards when you die. Others say that the light is your head coming out of the womb into daylight on your next life.

Yes, I've heard that too. I haven't experience that yet so that's on my 'to do' list on down the road.

 

[Foxfyre]

But nobody with any intelligence or education is willing to say that Jesus of Nazareth never existed or that he did not have a profound affect on humanity as no other single individual ever has had.

Whoa, you were doing until until you started preaching and insulting. There's no evidence the Jesus character existed. He may have been borrowed or cobbled together from local folklore and deified as it went along.

If you are going to insult people's intelligence then you need to back up your assertions. Clearly the religion had a great impact but all we know about Jesus is what was written long after he was said to have moved on and none of the fantastic stories are supportable., i.e., the multitude of rising dead at his death, torn temple curtain, day into night, earthquake, etc.

In fact the historians of the day not only do not mention any of that they don't mention Jesus (except the forged snippet of Josephus mentioning his brother James). That's odd.

The most important message ever and he couldn't be bothered to write anything down? And then the message gets to mankind at least a generation later in a different language? I used to buy it all but the more I learned and thought about it the more faith I needed.

What did Constantine write down of his contribution to history? Almost all was left to historians to report

What did any major figurehead from Napoleon to Lenin to Ghandi to Hitler to Martin Luther King write down of what they did? It was left to historians to report.

I wasn't preaching. I was simply stating fact. And I did back it up in Post #315.

It's a fact that one is not intelligent if they don't share your faith? You can't see how stupid that is? It's called a faith for a reason. You don't need faith if you have facts. Constantine had a Christian historian, his name was Eusibius. We probably know the most about the early church from him but I don't get your question. Hitler wrote a book and was on a bunch of video giving speeches. We don't need to guess. Gandi, Napoleon, Stalin, etc were all well recorded at the time. We didn't wait a generation and ask people their opinion on their whereabouts or thoughts. You are obfuscating.

Believe what you wish. I'll stand by my post.

Thanks for the permission but you made statements of faith and declared non believers as unintelligent. That's just silly.

Sorry but I did no such thing. It is rather unintelligent though to accuse people of saying something they didn't say when you can read the evidence right here.

I know many extremely intelligent and very well educated people who are not believers. But as the Bible says, it is difficult for the rich (in money or property, in knowledge, in anything) to get past their love for such wealth and see a higher purpose.