how much warming from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we

[gslack]

The bolded part above...

under FCC guidelines, a company can "self certify" their product.

Not entirely accurate.. Anything operating at frequencies higher than 9khz requires FCC verification testing. Meaning you test it if you want but they have to confirm it somehow and you get a certificate of compliance which you must keep on file. And the product must have the phrase "“This product complies with FCC requirements for a Class B device.”.

Yeah, but that is really self-certification in the sense that the FCC doesn't review the results or issue the certificates. You probably know that many big companies do the measuring in house.. Same with RoHS lead - free certification. Even if you don't have a clue what you're doing -- you can self-certify..

The FCC faq's on it..

Federal Communications Commission FAQ

That is the official policy. As to any companies or manufacturers "cooking the books" or falsifying anything it's on them, but the penalties would be severe for a willful act..

From the faq's

Why do I have to do to comply?
The FCC requires that any product that is covered by FCC regulations undergo "equipment authorization procedure". It is illegal to import, sell, or lease covered equipment that has not undergone the required equipment authorization procedure. Additionally, operators must cease to use equipment that causes interference upon notification by the FCC. The FCC does have the ability to levy fines, impose seizures, and even jail offenders. The FCC frequently targets end-users with fines to bring pressure to bear on retailers.
Has there been enforcement?
Yes. There are cases of fines, forfeiture, and other actions for non-compliant equipment, labeling, or other violations. You can read FCC releases from its enforcement bureau at EB - Equipment Marketing Violations.

Of course it doesn't mean it can't or doesn't happen, but I feel it would be in the company or manufacturers best interest to comply for their own sake. A person who gets a brain tumor or ailment a doctor feels caused by a device, and then finds that device does not comply with FCC regulations or anything, and they are suddenly not only breaking the law but potentially putting consumers in undue risk. And we know how a bad rap can be for a manufacturer. And then there is the fact by being not in compliance with FCC regulations they are then 100% liable for any prospective lawsuits by consumers, advocacy groups, civil suit firms and so on..

It would be a terrible business decision no matter the potential gains.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why would anyone not want a low-flush toilet? Just got mine. Flushes just as well, clogs less often, refills faster, and saves water and money. Early versions may have been troublesome, but the latest versions are great.

Put another way, why do the denialists doubt the ability of the free market to come up with solutions? With every gas mileage increase mandate, the same crowd says it's impossible to increase mileage like that. And yet every time, those increased mileage standards are met.

I don't know anybody who doubts that engineers are able to come up with solutions. Before they do though there has to be a reason for them to. That doesn't come from the marketplace. Only features that advantage one competitor over the others come from market forces. Advantages for everyone have to be demanded by government.

That's how capitalism works.

Wholly CrapPile.. You are obviously not an engineer OR a Capitalist.. "That reason doesn't come from the marketplace" >>>>> REALLY?? Am I suppose to pitch my idea to some slimy Congressman for HIS APPROVAL??? THe Capital for my idea is not WON in the Private sector? Son -- you've never been in the same world as innovation..

Nawww -=- NOBODY would develop green shit without the govt FORCING THEM TO..

Moron....

 

[SSDD]

Wholly CrapPile.. You are obviously not an engineer OR a Capitalist.. "That reason doesn't come from the marketplace" >>>>> REALLY?? Am I suppose to pitch my idea to some slimy Congressman for HIS APPROVAL??? THe Capital for my idea is not WON in the Private sector.. Son -- you've never been in the same world as innovation..

Nawww -=- NOBODY would develop green shit without the govt FORCING THEM TO..

Moron....

That guy really doesn't have a clue as to what capitalism or the market place is does he? I can't think of many products that the government has funded that were worth the time it took to design and manufacture them.

 

[PMZ]

Why would anyone not want a low-flush toilet? Just got mine. Flushes just as well, clogs less often, refills faster, and saves water and money. Early versions may have been troublesome, but the latest versions are great.

Put another way, why do the denialists doubt the ability of the free market to come up with solutions? With every gas mileage increase mandate, the same crowd says it's impossible to increase mileage like that. And yet every time, those increased mileage standards are met.

I don't know anybody who doubts that engineers are able to come up with solutions. Before they do though there has to be a reason for them to. That doesn't come from the marketplace. Only features that advantage one competitor over the others come from market forces. Advantages for everyone have to be demanded by government.

That's how capitalism works.

Wholly CrapPile.. You are obviously not an engineer OR a Capitalist.. "That reason doesn't come from the marketplace" >>>>> REALLY?? Am I suppose to pitch my idea to some slimy Congressman for HIS APPROVAL??? THe Capital for my idea is not WON in the Private sector.. Son -- you've never been in the same world as innovation..

Nawww -=- NOBODY would develop green shit without the govt FORCING THEM TO..

Moron....

Your mind has been so bent by your media addiction, that you've gone from, probably, useless to progress, to counter to it. I wonder if you've ever heard the phrase government of, by, and for, the people? I wonder if you've ever left your hometown, and experienced other places? I wonder when the last time a new, independent thought creeped into your brain, probably by accident?

Government has saved my life twice. Once by insisting that seat belts be in all cars, the other by putting in place all of the workings of a rapid response health care system that restored my heart to beating when my immune system failed me.

Are you so brain dead as to fall for, make more money regardless of the cost to others, is the only thing that drives progress?

Did you even go to fifth grade?

 

[PMZ]

Wholly CrapPile.. You are obviously not an engineer OR a Capitalist.. "That reason doesn't come from the marketplace" >>>>> REALLY?? Am I suppose to pitch my idea to some slimy Congressman for HIS APPROVAL??? THe Capital for my idea is not WON in the Private sector.. Son -- you've never been in the same world as innovation..

Nawww -=- NOBODY would develop green shit without the govt FORCING THEM TO..

Moron....

That guy really doesn't have a clue as to what capitalism or the market place is does he? I can't think of many products that the government has funded that were worth the time it took to design and manufacture them.

The fact that you think that the government is, or should be, in the "design and manufacture(ing)" business disqualifies you from further thinking.

 

[itfitzme]

4) Yu seem to be a huge cheerleader for NEGAWATT generation.. That's the "Let's make energy RARE and EXPENSIVE" crowd by conserving ourselves into the dark. Rather than my buds in the market who want energy to be PLENTIFUL and CHEAP.. Do I suspect some dark baggage motivates that? You bet I do.. ((After sitting in SFO airport frantically waving my hands to keep the lights on while I read, I hate you guys))\

This is what is called "ingroup/outgroup thinking", "transferance" and "projection".**I haven't expressed an opinion one way or the other. *

The transferance part is where you transfer your feelings of some previous nemisis onto another. *i.e. "Yu seem to be a huge cheerleader for NEGAWATT generation."

The projection is where you project your own attributes onto another as in, "Do I suspect some dark baggage motivates that?

"Rather than my buds" is the*ingroup/outgroup thinking.

There is no opporunity here for an actual intelligent conversation of pros and cons.

 

[itfitzme]

Wholly CrapPile.. You are obviously not an engineer OR a Capitalist.. "That reason doesn't come from the marketplace" >>>>> REALLY?? Am I suppose to pitch my idea to some slimy Congressman for HIS APPROVAL??? THe Capital for my idea is not WON in the Private sector.. Son -- you've never been in the same world as innovation..

Nawww -=- NOBODY would develop green shit without the govt FORCING THEM TO..

Moron....

That guy really doesn't have a clue as to what capitalism or the market place is does he? I can't think of many products that the government has funded that were worth the time it took to design and manufacture them.

The fact that you think that the government is, or should be, in the "design and manufacture(ing)" business disqualifies you from further thinking.

Nasa.

 

[PMZ]

Probably the most profound harbinger of progress is specialization. In the cave days, everybody had to know, and do, everything. Progress began when we broke that model, and further specialization has been the mark of progress since then.

Until the force of media conservatism started its relentless drive towards reversing progress. How and why? By telling those addicted to it that they have the right and ability to know everything. This taught by media moguls who, in fact, know next to nothing about anything.

There are numerous examples.

One is economics. The talking heads tell the educationally disadvantaged that they instinctively know, with no effort on their part, macroeconomics. And therefore they can claim that demand side economics is bogus, and supply side is all that needs to be known. Therefore giving tax breaks to the wealthy, despite all of the evidence to the contrary, like our massive national debt, are to be ignored. Those tax cuts will pay for themselves, thank you very much Presidents Reagan and Bush.

Another is sustainable energy. Taught by big oil. The fairies are making more oil as we speak. Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere used to behave badly, but now is benign. Your manhood is proportional to the size of your truck X the excess HP under your hood.

The list is endless. The proof, as they used to say, is in the pudding. The practice of what they preach has cost America generations of progress.

Yet they continue. Any law that requires typing on more than 5 pages is bogus. The solution to gun deaths of prodigious proportions is, of course, more guns. The man on the street knows more about Constitutional law than those who've spent their lives studying it. Poverty is caused by people who choose it. The government has an employment knob which they dial up and down on whim. Our future requires Christianity to defeat Islam. Freedom of religion comes from the government supporting Christianity.

And the bobble heads bow to their media controllers and, on command, try to throw the most successful country ever under the bus, in the service of the wealthy.

Ignorance is, and always will be, the consequence of limited education. Getting educated takes time and work. We each can only know what we make that investment in, and have to rely on others for the rest. The orchestration of that is a necessary function of organizations. Business, government, education, the press, etc.

Business organizations optimize only locally, their business, and the only measure they use is profit.

Government organizes the big picture, and does it in a democracy, in ways that please the majority.

Both operate within their specialty. Both are required. Business requires good government, and government requires good business, and both have demonstrably declined under conservative thinking.

And we, the people have become more educated about that.

 

[PMZ]

That guy really doesn't have a clue as to what capitalism or the market place is does he? I can't think of many products that the government has funded that were worth the time it took to design and manufacture them.

The fact that you think that the government is, or should be, in the "design and manufacture(ing)" business disqualifies you from further thinking.

Nasa.

Good thought. Wish that I had thought it. One of the highest return government programs ever was Kennedy's race to the moon. A masterful stroke of politics. The technology that was developed for that program allowed American businesses a great leap forward for a whole generation.

 

[itfitzme]

The fact that you think that the government is, or should be, in the "design and manufacture(ing)" business disqualifies you from further thinking.

Nasa.

Good thought. Wish that I had thought it. One of the highest return government programs ever was Kennedy's race to the moon. A masterful stroke of politics. The technology that was developed for that program allowed American businesses a great leap forward for a whole generation.

It's not manufacturing. *I'm thinking more investment, paricularly high risk/high capital investment. *

International highway system, funding basic research, Hubble telescope, transcontinental railroad, US postal service, The Great Pyramids, that sort of thing. *

 

[itfitzme]

The proof, as they used to say, is in the pudding.*

I still say that.

 

[PMZ]

Nasa.

Good thought. Wish that I had thought it. One of the highest return government programs ever was Kennedy's race to the moon. A masterful stroke of politics. The technology that was developed for that program allowed American businesses a great leap forward for a whole generation.

It's not manufacturing. *I'm thinking more investment, paricularly high risk/high capital investment. *

International highway system, funding basic research, Hubble telescope, transcontinental railroad, US postal service, The Great Pyramids, that sort of thing. *

I have the impression that legitimate business leaders understand and support the partnership between government and business that has made America great. Of course their necessary alligiance to, make more money regardless of the cost to others, still requires them to whine about regulations that impact them, but good leaders understand that regulations typically impact both them and their competitors, so are not a competitive disadvantage.

Our problem really comes from substandard business owners who think that they are entitled to business success at our expense.

 

[itfitzme]

...
Until the force of media conservatism started its relentless drive towards reversing progress....

.... Your manhood is proportional to the size of your truck X the excess HP under your hood.
...

Well, a big thrust of it was the marketing of WWII. *Remember "Uncle Sam Need You"?

In the '60 there was a bit of a backlash*

Then as the consumer economy took hold, marketing got good at selling people what they would buy. *What is really awesome is how simple and effective advertising is in attaching a basic feeling to a completely unrelated object. *You can't get them to believe that s$@t smells good, but you get them to feel like their last visit to McDonalds was a happy fun event.

With the invention of newsertainment, the new media started telling people what they wanted to hear.

The majority of people don't want to hear they are wrong. *They want to hear they are right. And they sure don't want "complicated". Not being sure is uncomfortable. *Actual thinking is grueling and time consuming. *Math actually causes many people real pain.

** So the news media has sorted itself into a spectrum, from NPR to Fox, each pandering to their audiences, each telling their audience what they already know is true. *It's "common sense". *It's "intuitive".

 

[itfitzme]

Good thought. Wish that I had thought it. One of the highest return government programs ever was Kennedy's race to the moon. A masterful stroke of politics. The technology that was developed for that program allowed American businesses a great leap forward for a whole generation.

It's not manufacturing. *I'm thinking more investment, paricularly high risk/high capital investment. *

International highway system, funding basic research, Hubble telescope, transcontinental railroad, US postal service, The Great Pyramids, that sort of thing. *

I have the impression that legitimate business leaders understand and support the partnership between government and business that has made America great. Of course their necessary alligiance to, make more money regardless of the cost to others, still requires them to whine about regulations that impact them, but good leaders understand that regulations typically impact both them and their competitors, so are not a competitive disadvantage.*

Our problem really comes from substandard business owners who think that they are entitled to business success at our expense.

They are part of creating those regulations, at least the big companies are. *Congressional commitees try to make as many as they can part of the process. Given the restriction of either accounting for one big company or a thousand small ones, I'm sure they pick the big one.

Engineering and manufacturing standardization has always been a semi-cooperative struggle. *Everyone whines about things in the beginning, especially as it is being written. *The whining gets lost in the annals of time. *Eventually, no one gives a second thought to nuts and screws all fitting together.

**Some most recent standards are for communications, like JPEG image compression. *The big market players, like Sony, are on the panel that designs the spec.*

*They do it so that the market is more efficient, they reduce costs, increase quality, increase availabiliy of components, increase adaptability, and in the end, increase sales. *Increased sales is increased consumer satisfaction. *Their market power and resources get them on the panel. *Being on the panel gets them more of what they want. And they known that they see far more sales when a Toshiba DVD player fits a Sony TV then if consumers had to buy matching components.

Standardization then opens up opportunities for small businesses like small manufacturing facilities that can design and produce their own applications without having to design every part. *

The internet protocols was a joint effort between Congress and private industry. *And small manufacturing saw huge gains in ease of procurement.

The Federal Reserve is the result of gov't and the private banks. *(The money supply, by the way, is a common good. Monetary problems are a tragedy of the commons. The paradox of thrift is a tragedy of commons.)

Genentek is a spinoff of university research. Genentek is a huge supporter of the statistics department at UC East Bay. UC East Bay is part of the California University System.

The ACA was a joint effort between insurance, healthcare providers and the gov't.

Apparently we will see private industry spinoffs in the space program. Obviously, the space station is a laboratory for basic research experiments for universities and private industry. The logistic support is being taken up by private partners. Nasa is now moving focus away from Earth orbit to L2, Lagrange Point 2, a gravitational neutral spot beyond the moons orbit.

Fishing companies support fishing regulations. *

Low flush toilets piss off owners with shitty pipes. *New building owners love them. I live in a place with a regular toilet and it still clogs. Then again, I'm like Curly from City Slickers, I crap bigger than anyone else.

I'm sure we could get a substantial thread out of just detailing the symbiotic relationships between*gov't, commerce, universities, and consumers.

It's all in the "and", not in the "or". *It's ying AND yang. *The Chinese philosophers figured this out before Christ was even born.

 

[itfitzme]

G
Drunk drivers.

An intrusive, militarized police state, and massive amounts of propaganda and brainwashing can easily solve the problem of drunk drivers.
.

Huge progress has been made on the problem of drunk drivers. You'll never know if among the lives that have been saved are you and yours.

Now if we can just solve driving under the influence of stupidity.

 

[PMZ]

...
Until the force of media conservatism started its relentless drive towards reversing progress....

.... Your manhood is proportional to the size of your truck X the excess HP under your hood.
...

Well, a big thrust of it was the marketing of WWII. *Remember "Uncle Sam Need You"?

In the '60 there was a bit of a backlash*

Then as the consumer economy took hold, marketing got good at selling people what they would buy. *What is really awesome is how simple and effective advertising is in attaching a basic feeling to a completely unrelated object. *You can't get them to believe that s$@t smells good, but you get them to feel like their last visit to McDonalds was a happy fun event.

With the invention of newsertainment, the new media started telling people what they wanted to hear.

The majority of people don't want to hear they are wrong. *They want to hear they are right. And they sure don't want "complicated". Not being sure is uncomfortable. *Actual thinking is grueling and time consuming. *Math actually causes many people real pain.

** So the news media has sorted itself into a spectrum, from NPR to Fox, each pandering to their audiences, each telling their audience what they already know is true. *It's "common sense". *It's "intuitive".

In 1920, America finally completed its long road to full democracy. The Constitution finally recognized that all citizens had the right and duty to participate in government of, by, and for the people. The duty included the obligation to be an informed electorate.

Ever since then media advertising to misinform the electorate in order to get we the people to support things against our collective interests has been gaining influence. Today it is still gaining on the natural advantages of democracy as an egalitarian decision making methodology that is the basis, along with our Constitution, of our freedom.

Advertising signaled the end of free commercial markets and could be the end of democracy as well. The ultimate free market. It certainly requires the continued advancement of critical thinking skills to maintain freedom.

So, our freedom is the stakes in a race between education, to insure that the electorate is objectively informed, and skilled in critical thinking, vs advertising to create the opposite.

It will be an interesting race with the highest stakes imaginable.

 

[flacaltenn]

4) Yu seem to be a huge cheerleader for NEGAWATT generation.. That's the "Let's make energy RARE and EXPENSIVE" crowd by conserving ourselves into the dark. Rather than my buds in the market who want energy to be PLENTIFUL and CHEAP.. Do I suspect some dark baggage motivates that? You bet I do.. ((After sitting in SFO airport frantically waving my hands to keep the lights on while I read, I hate you guys))\

This is what is called "ingroup/outgroup thinking", "transferance" and "projection".**I haven't expressed an opinion one way or the other. *

The transferance part is where you transfer your feelings of some previous nemisis onto another. *i.e. "Yu seem to be a huge cheerleader for NEGAWATT generation."

The projection is where you project your own attributes onto another as in, "Do I suspect some dark baggage motivates that?

"Rather than my buds" is the*ingroup/outgroup thinking.

There is no opporunity here for an actual intelligent conversation of pros and cons.

Gee Doc -- I feel much better now.. I'll never again take comments about "removing their electric appliances from the wall when not in use" to devine that you are a NegaWatter.
Not that it was you, but some "Conservative" friends..

Somehow -- this group of posters has fallen down the rabbit hole with off topic off forum ragingly embarrassing commentary..

 

[flacaltenn]

I don't know anybody who doubts that engineers are able to come up with solutions. Before they do though there has to be a reason for them to. That doesn't come from the marketplace. Only features that advantage one competitor over the others come from market forces. Advantages for everyone have to be demanded by government.

That's how capitalism works.

Wholly CrapPile.. You are obviously not an engineer OR a Capitalist.. "That reason doesn't come from the marketplace" >>>>> REALLY?? Am I suppose to pitch my idea to some slimy Congressman for HIS APPROVAL??? THe Capital for my idea is not WON in the Private sector.. Son -- you've never been in the same world as innovation..

Nawww -=- NOBODY would develop green shit without the govt FORCING THEM TO..

Moron....

Your mind has been so bent by your media addiction, that you've gone from, probably, useless to progress, to counter to it. I wonder if you've ever heard the phrase government of, by, and for, the people? I wonder if you've ever left your hometown, and experienced other places? I wonder when the last time a new, independent thought creeped into your brain, probably by accident?

Government has saved my life twice. Once by insisting that seat belts be in all cars, the other by putting in place all of the workings of a rapid response health care system that restored my heart to beating when my immune system failed me.

Are you so brain dead as to fall for, make more money regardless of the cost to others, is the only thing that drives progress?

Did you even go to fifth grade?

And Medicare killed my Dad twice.. Once on paper -- a feat that it took a Congressman and 2 months of my life to fix. And then for real when they wouldn't authorize anesthesia for a procedure. That makes us approximately squared off i reckon..

Govt doesn't drive progress except in pure R&D.. The rest rapidly morphs into corporate welfare and crony patronage. Guess you like it that way so you can BITCH on Thurs about those greedy, tax-dodging corporations.

 

[flacaltenn]

Speaking of stupidity.. Are you 2 jackwagons ever gonna get around to critiquing the false promises of the list of Green Alternate Energy choices you are FORCING on America?

Not a one of them is a literal "alternative". They are supplements at best.. Backed by redundant costs of keeping RELIABLE generators behind them and very restricted in the ability to be sited...

THERE is your govt innovation.. Solyndra had an idea.. A sucky idea --- but the govt needed photo ops and press releases. They are NOT QUALIFIED to be the sole judge of winners and losers. Perverting the market such that a competitor with BETTER ideas has to fight against their OWN GOVT playiing favorites.. Have fun kids..

 

[itfitzme]

The question of how much warming will result from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we skeptics are skeptical of. The climate system is amazingly complex, and the IPCC position that elements within the climate system (especially clouds) will change in ways which amplify the resulting small warming tendency is highly questionable, to say the least. If the climate system instead acts to reduce the warming, then anthropogenic global warming (AGW) becomes for all practical purposes a non-issue.
*
This represents what I believe to be the simplest description of how greenhouse gases cause warming of the surface. It bypasses all of the esoteric discussions and instead deals only with observations, which I believe cannot be easily explained any other way:
*
FIRST, warming can be caused by a decrease in the rate of energy loss by the climate system (or any other system, for that matter).
*
SECOND, IR absorbing gases are observed from satellites to reduce the rate of energy loss to space.
*
THEREFORE, adding more IR absorbing gases will cause a warming tendency.
*
QED.
*
Again I emphasize, however, the above simple argument is necessarily true only to the extent that all other elements of the climate system remain the same, which they will not. These other changes are called ‘feedbacks’, and they can either make or break theories of global warming and associated climate change.

I never know if I should be morbidly amused or just cry.

You'd think that no one ever thought of "feedback". *I wonder, does be mean "negative feedback"'or "positive feedback"?

Like this is a new idea that the IPCC never considered.*

*The guy must think himself the Einstien of climate science.

Yeppers, there's complex "feedback" in there somewhere.


Which could it be, "positive" or "negative". Maybe it's both and one is stronger.

Someone farted... I can't prove who did it. But it sure is warmer and stinky.

Get it?