Zone1 How would you feel about God if he

[sealybobo]

That's a pretty huge leap to say the universe is infinite. It's total nonsense. As is everything else in your post. I'm not going to waste my time with garbage, bro. C'mon.

It freaks the scientists out too. Me too. It's mind blowing but so obvious

Does the Universe have an edge? If by ‘Universe’ we mean ‘everything there is’, then the Universe clearly does not have an edge. If we thought it did, we would be guilty of not including everything!

But people often ask the question in a slightly different way, which assumes there is an edge: “If the Universe is expanding,” they say, “what is it expanding into?”


This, though, misunderstands what is meant by ‘expanding Universe’.
Does the Universe have an edge? If by ‘Universe’ we mean ‘everything there is’, then the Universe clearly does not have an edge. If we thought it did, we would be guilty of not including everything!

But people often ask the question in a slightly different way, which assumes there is an edge: “If the Universe is expanding,” they say, “what is it expanding into?”


This, though, misunderstands what is meant by ‘expanding Universe’.

What Einstein’s theory showed (it was others who spotted this, not Einstein) was that the Universe could not be still but had to be in motion: either expanding or contracting.

Of course, others will say the Universe does have an effective edge, because it was born 13.82 billion years ago in the Big Bang. We can therefore see only those galaxies whose light has taken less than 13.82 billion years to reach us (about two trillion).


Those galaxies exist in a sphere of space centred on the Earth that we call the ‘observable Universe’. It’s actually about 92 billion light-years across as the Universe ‘inflated’ far faster than the speed of light in its first split-second of existence.

The observable Universe is bounded by a ‘cosmic horizon’, much like the horizon at sea. Just as we know there’s more ocean over the horizon, we know there are more galaxies (possibly an infinite number) beyond the cosmic horizon. Their light simply hasn’t had time to reach us yet.

 

[Clyde 154]

And I can't give you the evidence you want to disprove a creating cause. And you can't give me the evidence of a creating cause. The fact is we don't know enough to come to a conclusion.

Remember, we don't know what was here before our universe got started. Do you know one day all the stars in our universe will die? The entire observable universe black. What happens then? I suspect another big bang. But who knows?

If you believe in God you can't seriously say he didn't exist before our universe was born and you can't rule out that he has other universes besides ours. That's what you can't wrap your brain around.

Our observable universe is not infinite correct? Yet the universe is infinite. Agreed? No end. No beginning. No need for a god.

Indeed..........I can give you something that you cannot provide. The PRIMA FACIE evidence of this existence being created by observing the things that are created void of a Scientific Explanation. I deal in TRUTH.....and truth can be based upon prima facie evidences, its accomplished every day in our court system. The Holy Scriptures are based upon the eyewitness testimonies (2 Peter 1:16) of some 40 different men, from all walks of life, from different cultures, different continents........all in total agreement from Genesis to Revelation.

Until you can provide the objective evidences that prove these eyewitness accounts are untrue..........they stand as truth until proven different by anyone who attempts to prosecute them as fabrication.


Its YOU that claim to be working with FACTS..........yet........ You can't explain what caused the Universe to come into existence, but the Universe does exist without denial. I can present the prima facie evidence found in the Holy Scriptures that explains CREATION, with that creation account having never been "falsified" by the Scientific Method of observable, reproducible and consistent experimentation of conclusion. Where as every time that Evolution and the theory of a self generating Universe and Life having evolved from dead matter is Constantly Falsified by the Scientific Method. If not................................

Simply provide the experiments where life as been reproduced from dead matter......or life has evolved outside of species and document your experiments that creates life in the lab. (there have been hundreds upon hundreds of scientific experiments attempting to create or regenerate life. All have been falsified by the Scientific Method.

What man can do is take a perfectly healthy example of life............dismantle it down to the cellular level, examine it. But what science cannot accomplish......putting that life puzzle back together with a resumption of life possible. Where did that energy go that animated the flesh? Its a Soul/Spirit. Science proves that energy cannot be created or destroyed......only altered. Its called the Law of Conservation of Energy

You offer nothing but theories, hypothesis, assumptions, speculations, and conjecture........all products of the human mind.....AKA, as philosophy.

Science has proven......just as stated in the Holy Scriptures (Genesis 1:24-25) and proven to be a fact of science by Louis Pasteur when his scientific experimentation concluded that LIFE can only be reproduced by Pre-existing life........WITHIN THE SAME SPECIES. This experiment has never been falsified by the scientific method....nor has the Creation account.

You have no foundation for your conjectures and speculations........You cannot prove where the energy came from that produced the so called Cosmic Egg of energy that caused the Big Bang......and you cannot prove that life can be produced by any other source than pre-existing life......your foundation of guess work is constructed upon SAND.

Based upon the prima facie evidence of our existence in this plane of reality..........the evidence that exists now point to the cause of the Universe as being a creating force that is (Super....ior) to (Natur.....al).....i.e. Superior to Nature....i.e., the Supernatural.....as existing in a spiritual realm, not visible from this plane of reality. Why does this point to a creator? Because the Laws of Physics cannot explain the very existence and cause of this plane of reality known as THE UNIVERSE.

 

[Hellbilly]

That's a pretty huge leap to say the universe is infinite.

It’s also a fact.

 

[ding]

It freaks the scientists out too. Me too. It's mind blowing but so obvious

Does the Universe have an edge? If by ‘Universe’ we mean ‘everything there is’, then the Universe clearly does not have an edge. If we thought it did, we would be guilty of not including everything!

But people often ask the question in a slightly different way, which assumes there is an edge: “If the Universe is expanding,” they say, “what is it expanding into?”


This, though, misunderstands what is meant by ‘expanding Universe’.
Does the Universe have an edge? If by ‘Universe’ we mean ‘everything there is’, then the Universe clearly does not have an edge. If we thought it did, we would be guilty of not including everything!

But people often ask the question in a slightly different way, which assumes there is an edge: “If the Universe is expanding,” they say, “what is it expanding into?”


This, though, misunderstands what is meant by ‘expanding Universe’.

What Einstein’s theory showed (it was others who spotted this, not Einstein) was that the Universe could not be still but had to be in motion: either expanding or contracting.

Of course, others will say the Universe does have an effective edge, because it was born 13.82 billion years ago in the Big Bang. We can therefore see only those galaxies whose light has taken less than 13.82 billion years to reach us (about two trillion).


Those galaxies exist in a sphere of space centred on the Earth that we call the ‘observable Universe’. It’s actually about 92 billion light-years across as the Universe ‘inflated’ far faster than the speed of light in its first split-second of existence.

The observable Universe is bounded by a ‘cosmic horizon’, much like the horizon at sea. Just as we know there’s more ocean over the horizon, we know there are more galaxies (possibly an infinite number) beyond the cosmic horizon. Their light simply hasn’t had time to reach us yet.

No one is saying the universe is infinite except you.

 

[ding]

It’s also a fact.

No, it's not a fact.

 

[Hellbilly]

No, it's not a fact.

I guess no one could possibly argue with proof like you just provided.

 

[ding]

I guess no one could possibly argue with proof like you just provided.

It's as much proof as you provided to support your belief that the universe is infinite in size.

But let me provide the basis for the belief that the universe is not infinite in size.

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning.

So if the universe had a beginning - which is widely accepted as ~14 billion years ago... how can it's size be infinite?

 

[sealybobo]

Indeed..........I can give you something that you cannot provide. The PRIMA FACIE evidence of this existence being created by observing the things that are created void of a Scientific Explanation. I deal in TRUTH.....and truth can be based upon prima facie evidences, its accomplished every day in our court system. The Holy Scriptures are based upon the eyewitness testimonies (2 Peter 1:16) of some 40 different men, from all walks of life, from different cultures, different continents........all in total agreement from Genesis to Revelation.

Until you can provide the objective evidences that prove these eyewitness accounts are untrue..........they stand as truth until proven different by anyone who attempts to prosecute them as fabrication.


Its YOU that claim to be working with FACTS..........yet........ You can't explain what caused the Universe to come into existence, but the Universe does exist without denial. I can present the prima facie evidence found in the Holy Scriptures that explains CREATION, with that creation account having never been "falsified" by the Scientific Method of observable, reproducible and consistent experimentation of conclusion. Where as every time that Evolution and the theory of a self generating Universe and Life having evolved from dead matter is Constantly Falsified by the Scientific Method. If not................................

Simply provide the experiments where life as been reproduced from dead matter......or life has evolved outside of species and document your experiments that creates life in the lab. (there have been hundreds upon hundreds of scientific experiments attempting to create or regenerate life. All have been falsified by the Scientific Method.

What man can do is take a perfectly healthy example of life............dismantle it down to the cellular level, examine it. But what science cannot accomplish......putting that life puzzle back together with a resumption of life possible. Where did that energy go that animated the flesh? Its a Soul/Spirit. Science proves that energy cannot be created or destroyed......only altered. Its called the Law of Conservation of Energy

You offer nothing but theories, hypothesis, assumptions, speculations, and conjecture........all products of the human mind.....AKA, as philosophy.

Science has proven......just as stated in the Holy Scriptures (Genesis 1:24-25) and proven to be a fact of science by Louis Pasteur when his scientific experimentation concluded that LIFE can only be reproduced by Pre-existing life........WITHIN THE SAME SPECIES. This experiment has never been falsified by the scientific method....nor has the Creation account.

You have no foundation for your conjectures and speculations........You cannot prove where the energy came from that produced the so called Cosmic Egg of energy that caused the Big Bang......and you cannot prove that life can be produced by any other source than pre-existing life......your foundation of guess work is constructed upon SAND.

Based upon the prima facie evidence of our existence in this plane of reality..........the evidence that exists now point to the cause of the Universe as being a creating force that is (Super....ior) to (Natur.....al).....i.e. Superior to Nature....i.e., the Supernatural.....as existing in a spiritual realm, not visible from this plane of reality. Why does this point to a creator? Because the Laws of Physics cannot explain the very existence and cause of this plane of reality known as THE UNIVERSE.

You're going to take the word of 40 men 2000 years ago? Wow!

 

[hadit]

The observable universe. You don't know the difference. Of course the Universe is infinite. The observable universe is not.

Until you know the difference between our observable universe and the UNIVERSE we can't have this conversation because you can't wrap your brain around it.

In physics, we usually distinguish between these two notions of universe as, one, the observable universe, which is everything whose existence we've thus far been able to confirm or observe, or could, in principle, observe if we pointed our telescopes at it, and two, the Universe with a capital U, or the whole universe ...

Difference between the observable universe and the whole universe

Learn about the distinction between the observable universe and the whole universe.

www.britannica.com

You are referring to what lies outside our universe then, because our universe had a beginning. That is the current scientific consensus.

 

[hadit]

Funny that religious people can't wrap their brains around the fact the universe goes off in every direction for an infinite amount of time and space. No end.

They can't grasp that. But ask them if God has existed for an infinite amount of time and they'll quickly say SURE!

God exists outside time and space, so time as we know it simply doesn't apply to Him. We also know that time as we know it started when our universe started, because the very fabric of space is space-time, so your concept of time is restricted to this universe, which is not infinite.

 

[sealybobo]

You are referring to what lies outside our universe then, because our universe had a beginning. That is the current scientific consensus.

Correct. And even before the big bang. Something was here before the big bang. We just don't know what it was like. Unknowable. But there most certainly was something in the Universe 16 or 24 or 100 billion years ago correct?

Even though our universe isn't even 14 billion years old.

 

[sealybobo]

God exists outside time and space, so time as we know it simply doesn't apply to Him. We also know that time as we know it started when our universe started, because the very fabric of space is space-time, so your concept of time is restricted to this universe, which is not infinite.

How convenient for you. A very simple explanation for a non scientific mind.

Time as you know it. Yes. That's correct. Time as YOU know it. There's other time. Time before you and after you. Infinite time. God doesn't exist outside of time and space. Where is that exactly?

What you know is about your one little universe. That's all you can ever know. It sucks huh? You can't know what's beyond your observable universe.

And yes god exists outside of our universe. In the Universe. Capital U.

 

[ding]

But there most certainly was something in the Universe 16 or 24 or 100 billion years ago correct?

I'd love for you post a link supporting that nonsense.

 

[ding]

How convenient for you. A very simple explanation for a non scientific mind.

Time as you know it. Yes. That's correct. Time as YOU know it. There's other time. Time before you and after you. Infinite time. God doesn't exist outside of time and space. Where is that exactly?

What you know is about your one little universe. That's all you can ever know. It sucks huh? You can't know what's beyond your observable universe.

And yes god exists outside of our universe. In the Universe. Capital U.

God is incorporeal. Laws of physics only apply to the corporeal. The presence of matter is what creates space and time.

 

[hadit]

Correct. And even before the big bang. Something was here before the big bang. We just don't know what it was like. Unknowable. But there most certainly was something in the Universe 16 or 24 or 100 billion years ago correct?

Even though our universe isn't even 14 billion years old.

Well, according to science, there WAS nothing here, because here didn't exist.

 

[hadit]

How convenient for you. A very simple explanation for a non scientific mind.

Time as you know it. Yes. That's correct. Time as YOU know it. There's other time. Time before you and after you. Infinite time. God doesn't exist outside of time and space. Where is that exactly?

What you know is about your one little universe. That's all you can ever know. It sucks huh? You can't know what's beyond your observable universe.

And yes god exists outside of our universe. In the Universe. Capital U.

Correction, what WE know about OUR little universe. Time as WE know it. You're in this too because you're as limited as the rest of us.

 

[BreezeWood]

It is not.

well, that really says a lot - skoden ... must be short hand for - have a nice day. and the same for you. too. high iq.

 

[BreezeWood]

It’s also a fact.

- and can only be limited for an instance from perpetual motion providing a clue for its eternal existence. and also the metaphysical forces that created both physiology and that substance's spiritual content.

 

[Clyde 154]

You're going to take the word of 40 men 2000 years ago? Wow!

Actually these 40 men recorded the Holy Scriptures over a 3500 time line. Why believe them? As stated previously, no one can objectively prove them to be wrong through the use of Applied Science or History actual. There over 1200 total pages consisting of 23,145 verses in the O.T. and 7957 verses in the N.T., these verses total 807361 words. There are but 120 examples of the Supernatural being recorded therein.......(which cannot be quantified via applying the laws of physics.......because these events are called SUPER-NATRUAL for a reason, they are beyond the abilities of Scientific Laws to measure.

Someone suggested that I could not prove any supernatural event....and they cannot disprove them, that statement is grounded in reality. I can no more prove how the supernatural can be measured and explained than anyone else can apply the laws of physics and disprove them. Unless you are in possession of a Super-Natural-0-Meter.

However...........the vast majority, well over 90% of the Bible is nothing but a running historical record of the Judeo/Christian philosophy, a truthful history that is yet to be challenged by the actual laws of physics or history actual......when tested in an objective fashion, dealing only in factual truths.....the scriptures have remained unbroken over that 3500 year period.

Therefore if over 90% of the Bible can be subject to objective testing and found not lacking in truth..........this is prima facie evidence that point to the Eyewitness accounts being truth.....UNTIL someone can prove they are not. This system of prima facie evidence based upon eyewitness exists today in our legal system throughout the United States. There are many individuals that have been found Guilty or Innocent "beyond the reason to doubt otherwise" every day based solely upon truths derived through the prima facie record of eyewitness accounts.

 

[Clyde 154]

It’s also a fact.

Facts can be produced through Science. Prove the laws of themodynamics do not apply to the physical Univserse......or not. If its a fact that the Universe is infinite without end......science can prove it in an objective and testable fashion. Thus far All I have seen posted is Ad Hominem BS.