I am Totally Disgusted With The GOP; I am Voting for Sanders

[Rustic]

Interesting read
Can the U.S. Sustain Bernie Sanders' Dream of Scandinavian-Style Socialism? - IVN.us

Fucking moron, Bernie don't know jack shit… LOL

 

[JimBowie1958]

Regulated in terms of held responsible for harming customers (civil court) or directly stealing from them (criminal courts) sure. Regulated in terms of controlled in advance, no

How about regulated for standards?

How about regulated for compliance with patent laws?

How about regulated to not pollute our environment?

How about regulated to not exploit our very generous guest worker laws?

How about regulated to comply with their due taxes?

How about regulated to ensure their compliance with worker safety laws?

You Corporate Bendovermen are quite OK with turning the USA into a copy of Indonesia, arent you?

 

[kaz]

I trust the federal government to STOP corporations from exporting jobs, to stop them from corrupting our political system, and to regulate them to not cheat and lie tot he customers

OMG, you've been Berned. Feel behind your ears, it's actually still wet, isn't it? Logic with a socialist is pointless. And I don't know how you realized you and Bernie know that you're right and the field of economics is wrong about free trade, but obviously you do so hey, I concede. You believe your dream world over empirical data, it is what it is

 

[Brain357]

Let's say there are 10 things you want to do. I decide I'll let you do five your way, and tell you which five you can do, then you're going to do five my way.

I actually decided all ten, you weren't free for any of them because I chose not only the five that you had to do my way, but I chose the ones I allowed you to do yours.

They are socialist countries because government decides what the people are free to do, and that which they can give, they can take away

However you chose to describe their system, it WORKS and the people in those countries are not seeing the jobs exported, nor do they have to train their immigrant labor that is taking their jobs.

I'll tell you a far worse form of government than socialism; Corporate Crony Oligarchy. They fuck their own people day in and day out and the corporate owned media just ignores it all. And the wealthiest 1% blow all the statistics out fo the water, with the top 20% owning far more than the statistically average 80%. The top 1% alone owns that.

The Middle Class, that is me BTW, are getting reamed, robbed and lied to about it all.

It's going to be time to water the Tree of Liberty if things dont get fixed soon.

It works if liberty's not important to you and you are good with just being a subject of government, sure.

But let's say for a minute liberty doesn't matter to you and you like their system. To conclude that what would work in a country a tiny fraction the number of people and size of their economy with highly homogeneous people with common ethnic, cultural and moral values would work in a country so many times larger and more diverse is just butt ridiculous

Good point. I like the Nordic model, but am unsure if it would work on a large scale. It is possible it could work better on a large scale, but don't think anyone knows.

Scale is certainly a big part of it as we agreed. But the part of the homogeneous people is probably a much larger issue. I work with a lot of Europeans both here and in Europe and I know a lot of Scandinavians, particularly Swedes. And yes, they love their healthcare system. But they share a background, ethnicity, values, attitudes. It's small and they are all behind it in the same way. Look at our campaign now for President, this is a huge, diverse, splintered country. Most people opposed Obamacare, Democrats forced it through by pure guile after Kennedy died.

Scandinavians are virtually universally behind their system, we're completely divided. And government running all that is so absolute. It's ridiculous to conclude what works there would work here or even to believe there is any chance it would. It would just be blunt force one half the country compelling it on the other. Tyranny of the majority, and a tiny majority

I can only disagree with your conclusion. I don't think it is ridiculous to think it could work here, but I don't see how anyone can be that confident it would. We have the largest economy in the world so anything is possible. Another big factor is we spend a lot more on the military. But the size of our economy might cover for that.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I trust the federal government to STOP corporations from exporting jobs, to stop them from corrupting our political system, and to regulate them to not cheat and lie tot he customers

OMG, you've been Berned. Feel behind your ears, it's actually still wet, isn't it? Logic with a socialist is pointless. And I don't know how you realized you and Bernie know that you're right and the field of economics is wrong about free trade, but obviously you do so hey, I concede. You believe your dream world over empirical data, it is what it is

So now you h ave retreated to sarcasm and lame humor.

Thanks for playing.

 

[kaz]

Let's say there are 10 things you want to do. I decide I'll let you do five your way, and tell you which five you can do, then you're going to do five my way.

I actually decided all ten, you weren't free for any of them because I chose not only the five that you had to do my way, but I chose the ones I allowed you to do yours.

They are socialist countries because government decides what the people are free to do, and that which they can give, they can take away

However you chose to describe their system, it WORKS and the people in those countries are not seeing the jobs exported, nor do they have to train their immigrant labor that is taking their jobs.

I'll tell you a far worse form of government than socialism; Corporate Crony Oligarchy. They fuck their own people day in and day out and the corporate owned media just ignores it all. And the wealthiest 1% blow all the statistics out fo the water, with the top 20% owning far more than the statistically average 80%. The top 1% alone owns that.

The Middle Class, that is me BTW, are getting reamed, robbed and lied to about it all.

It's going to be time to water the Tree of Liberty if things dont get fixed soon.

It works if liberty's not important to you and you are good with just being a subject of government, sure.

But let's say for a minute liberty doesn't matter to you and you like their system. To conclude that what would work in a country a tiny fraction the number of people and size of their economy with highly homogeneous people with common ethnic, cultural and moral values would work in a country so many times larger and more diverse is just butt ridiculous

Good point. I like the Nordic model, but am unsure if it would work on a large scale. It is possible it could work better on a large scale, but don't think anyone knows.

Scale is certainly a big part of it as we agreed. But the part of the homogeneous people is probably a much larger issue. I work with a lot of Europeans both here and in Europe and I know a lot of Scandinavians, particularly Swedes. And yes, they love their healthcare system. But they share a background, ethnicity, values, attitudes. It's small and they are all behind it in the same way. Look at our campaign now for President, this is a huge, diverse, splintered country. Most people opposed Obamacare, Democrats forced it through by pure guile after Kennedy died.

Scandinavians are virtually universally behind their system, we're completely divided. And government running all that is so absolute. It's ridiculous to conclude what works there would work here or even to believe there is any chance it would. It would just be blunt force one half the country compelling it on the other. Tyranny of the majority, and a tiny majority

That makes it a political problem, not a financial problem.

We can do it and as jobs evaporate we will do what it takes to get there.

We will do it, true, because we are now a Democracy and no longer a Federal Republic. But it will be a disaster because a tiny majority forcing government healthcare on the entire country will be a disaster. It already is and you don't see that either.

You feel the Bern, you don't see the facts. And you have no respect for the rights of the minority. But you whaaaant it ...

 

[Wildman]

Sanders isn't going to be the nominee.

sad but true, the libertard fuckover machine will be running full speed, 24/7.

 

[kaz]

Regulated in terms of held responsible for harming customers (civil court) or directly stealing from them (criminal courts) sure. Regulated in terms of controlled in advance, no

How about regulated for standards?

- Don't know what that hand waiving means. Be more specific

How about regulated for compliance with patent laws?

- Protection of intellectual property, part of the civil court I already said I support

How about regulated to not pollute our environment?

- If they can "pollute" on their private property and not affect others, sure. It's hard to do that and again you then are affecting others

How about regulated to not exploit our very generous guest worker laws?

- Say what?

How about regulated to comply with their due taxes?

- How is that regulated in advance?

How about regulated to ensure their compliance with worker safety laws?

- Again, I support criminal laws and civil laws depending what they do

You Corporate Bendovermen are quite OK with turning the USA into a copy of Indonesia, arent you?

Don't know what that strawman means

 

[Wry Catcher]

Sanders sure would shake things up. I think it would be fascinating watching him take on the Corporate Slumlords. But can he win, is the question. Obviously, the Global Banker-Elites are with Hillary Clinton. Can he overcome that? I have serious doubts he can.

Him being a clueless socialist... Ya that will help. Lol

Balance. We clearly don't have that anymore. The Corporate Fatcats are completely out of control. They own our Government, and they don't care about our country. I think Sanders could provide some balance. It really would be fascinating watching him take em on.

An understanding of how our government works (or better said, how it fails to work) is why I will not vote for Sen. Sanders. That being the fact that the members of Congress will never pass a Sander's Economic Agenda, the vast majority in both chambers are owned and biddable to the power elite who will continue to command their due.

The best way to secure our democratic republic is to pass an amendment to COTUS giving POTUS the Line Item Veto; without this radical change we can expect the power elite to continue to unduly influence not only how legislators vote, but if they can count on being funded for their reelection.

 

[kaz]

Let's say there are 10 things you want to do. I decide I'll let you do five your way, and tell you which five you can do, then you're going to do five my way.

I actually decided all ten, you weren't free for any of them because I chose not only the five that you had to do my way, but I chose the ones I allowed you to do yours.

They are socialist countries because government decides what the people are free to do, and that which they can give, they can take away

However you chose to describe their system, it WORKS and the people in those countries are not seeing the jobs exported, nor do they have to train their immigrant labor that is taking their jobs.

I'll tell you a far worse form of government than socialism; Corporate Crony Oligarchy. They fuck their own people day in and day out and the corporate owned media just ignores it all. And the wealthiest 1% blow all the statistics out fo the water, with the top 20% owning far more than the statistically average 80%. The top 1% alone owns that.

The Middle Class, that is me BTW, are getting reamed, robbed and lied to about it all.

It's going to be time to water the Tree of Liberty if things dont get fixed soon.

It works if liberty's not important to you and you are good with just being a subject of government, sure.

But let's say for a minute liberty doesn't matter to you and you like their system. To conclude that what would work in a country a tiny fraction the number of people and size of their economy with highly homogeneous people with common ethnic, cultural and moral values would work in a country so many times larger and more diverse is just butt ridiculous

Good point. I like the Nordic model, but am unsure if it would work on a large scale. It is possible it could work better on a large scale, but don't think anyone knows.

Scale is certainly a big part of it as we agreed. But the part of the homogeneous people is probably a much larger issue. I work with a lot of Europeans both here and in Europe and I know a lot of Scandinavians, particularly Swedes. And yes, they love their healthcare system. But they share a background, ethnicity, values, attitudes. It's small and they are all behind it in the same way. Look at our campaign now for President, this is a huge, diverse, splintered country. Most people opposed Obamacare, Democrats forced it through by pure guile after Kennedy died.

Scandinavians are virtually universally behind their system, we're completely divided. And government running all that is so absolute. It's ridiculous to conclude what works there would work here or even to believe there is any chance it would. It would just be blunt force one half the country compelling it on the other. Tyranny of the majority, and a tiny majority

I can only disagree with your conclusion. I don't think it is ridiculous to think it could work here, but I don't see how anyone can be that confident it would. We have the largest economy in the world so anything is possible. Another big factor is we spend a lot more on the military. But the size of our economy might cover for that.

You think it's not ridiculous to conclude that a solution that works in a small country overwhelmingly for one system would work in a large country where the country is completely divided with half the country completely opposed to the solution and the other half forcing it on them with government guns? Now that, is ridiculous

 

[kaz]

I trust the federal government to STOP corporations from exporting jobs, to stop them from corrupting our political system, and to regulate them to not cheat and lie tot he customers

OMG, you've been Berned. Feel behind your ears, it's actually still wet, isn't it? Logic with a socialist is pointless. And I don't know how you realized you and Bernie know that you're right and the field of economics is wrong about free trade, but obviously you do so hey, I concede. You believe your dream world over empirical data, it is what it is

So now you h ave retreated to sarcasm and lame humor.

Thanks for playing.

Information wasn't getting me anywhere. You know better than the field of economics, how do I refute that blind belief?

 

[ZackB]

You need to calm the fuck down, Bowie. You are talking like a crazy douche. If you can ideologically go from the GOP to Sanders then you have had a psychotic break from reality.

I know that you are frustrated. But what did you expect? Did you expect some fairy tale, feel good candidate to appear and tell you everything was going to be ok (you know, another Obama scam job)? Are you miffed that there is no candidate that tells you what you want to hear and who makes you feel good about yourself? Well I got news for you: it ain't happening. Even Reagan was not well liked by all when he won in 1980.

You is acting like a lil bitch. If individual liberty is important to you then you have to vote GOP. Sanders and his radical socialism will strip virtually every last civil liberty from you faster than a negro can suck the meat off a chicken wing.

Sanders promises a lot of free shit, like education and medical care. Know what will happen? The costs will be so overwhelming that these services will have to be watered down and rationed out. The government is going to eventually tell you where you can go to college and what you will study and what Doctor you can see and which procedures you can have done. That is exactly what a single payer system will produce.

You economic freedoms will also be curtailed under a looney Sanders utopia republic. He is going to engage in a protection racket against banks and large corporations. The corporate taxes assessed will increase, which means that the increased costs will really be passed on down to the consumer, thereby decreasing your disposable income. I hope that you don't have any trips planned for next year.

If old Bernie can get it up then he is going to bend over the banks and anally rape them without lubrication and without protection. There is sure to be increased reporting requirements and more regulations. He will probably require greater greater capitalization and collateralizing by lending institutions so as to "protect" the taxpayer. All of this leads to huge additional financial burdens on banks. They will pass down these costs to you through increased interest rates and fees. However, they will not be able to simply offset all of these costs by making more loans, as all of the additional lending regulations will narrow the pool of potential borrowers. In other words, I hope you don't have any plans to buy a car or a house in the next few years, Bowie.

Grow up, Bowie. If Bernie, and to a lesser degree Hillary (Hillary has her own unique set of problems) is elected and manages to implement his leftist Final Solution for America, then we will be fucked. Is this really what you want to see happen?!? This election is about the future of the republic. It is NOT about Bowie and his feelings. So stop being a douche and act like a man, damn it!

 

[Brain357]

I trust the federal government to STOP corporations from exporting jobs, to stop them from corrupting our political system, and to regulate them to not cheat and lie tot he customers

OMG, you've been Berned. Feel behind your ears, it's actually still wet, isn't it? Logic with a socialist is pointless. And I don't know how you realized you and Bernie know that you're right and the field of economics is wrong about free trade, but obviously you do so hey, I concede. You believe your dream world over empirical data, it is what it is

So now you h ave retreated to sarcasm and lame humor.

Thanks for playing.

Information wasn't getting me anywhere. You know better than the field of economics, how do I refute that blind belief?

Do you think economics had been right about free trade?

 

[ZackB]

I trust the federal government to STOP corporations from exporting jobs, to stop them from corrupting our political system, and to regulate them to not cheat and lie tot he customers

OMG, you've been Berned. Feel behind your ears, it's actually still wet, isn't it? Logic with a socialist is pointless. And I don't know how you realized you and Bernie know that you're right and the field of economics is wrong about free trade, but obviously you do so hey, I concede. You believe your dream world over empirical data, it is what it is

So now you h ave retreated to sarcasm and lame humor.

Thanks for playing.

Information wasn't getting me anywhere. You know better than the field of economics, how do I refute that blind belief?

Do you think economics had been right about free trade?

Uh oh. It's a set up. He really means "fair trade".

 

[JimBowie1958]

We will do it, true, because we are now a Democracy and no longer a Federal Republic.

We are still a democratic Republic.

But it will be a disaster because a tiny majority forcing government healthcare on the entire country will be a disaster. It already is and you don't see that either.

I see it is not working as well as it could if BOTH sides had participated in crafting it. But that is all water under the bridge now; we have it and historically no federal funded obligation to the public has ever been rescinded. We can cry about it all day and all year for decades if we want, or we could get a good businessman in charge with the cooperation of Both parties,...oh wait, but the corporations wont cooperate and will stop anyone from changing their theft of the government treasury and tax payer funds because Bendover Conservatives like you will always be there to defend corporations and attack any effort to reign them in as communism and craven greed, when it is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE..

You feel the Bern, you don't see the facts. And you have no respect for the rights of the minority. But you whaaaant it ...

I see plenty of facts, but you have nothing to rebut with and so you engage in sarcasm instead.

There is no reason to sell off our nation to foreign corporations and our nations enemies

 

[kaz]

I trust the federal government to STOP corporations from exporting jobs, to stop them from corrupting our political system, and to regulate them to not cheat and lie tot he customers

OMG, you've been Berned. Feel behind your ears, it's actually still wet, isn't it? Logic with a socialist is pointless. And I don't know how you realized you and Bernie know that you're right and the field of economics is wrong about free trade, but obviously you do so hey, I concede. You believe your dream world over empirical data, it is what it is

So now you h ave retreated to sarcasm and lame humor.

Thanks for playing.

Information wasn't getting me anywhere. You know better than the field of economics, how do I refute that blind belief?

Do you think economics had been right about free trade?

Damned straight it is. It's fighting free trade and free markets that has caused the damage. The more your fight against free markets causes harm to the economy, the more you're convinced you're not doing enough to restrict them. Apparently you believe there's a boomerang effect where if you do enough of what you are doing to destroy our economy, all of a sudden it'll start working and fix it. yeah

 

[ZackB]

We will do it, true, because we are now a Democracy and no longer a Federal Republic.

We are still a democratic Republic.

But it will be a disaster because a tiny majority forcing government healthcare on the entire country will be a disaster. It already is and you don't see that either.

I see it is not working as well as it could if BOTH sides had participated in crafting it. But that is all water under the bridge now; we have it and historically no federal funded obligation to the public has ever been rescinded. We can cry about it all day and all year for decades if we want, or we could get a good businessman in charge with the cooperation of Both parties,...oh wait, but the corporations wont cooperate and will stop anyone from changing their theft of the government treasury and tax payer funds because Bendover Conservatives like you will always be there to defend corporations and attack any effort to reign them in as communism and craven greed, when it is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE..

You feel the Bern, you don't see the facts. And you have no respect for the rights of the minority. But you whaaaant it ...

I see plenty of facts, but you have nothing to rebut with and so you engage in sarcasm instead.

There is no reason to sell off our nation to foreign corporations and our nations enemies

Define "craven greed".

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Yeah, thats a great move. Lenin was also disguising his communistic tendencies, from his mentor, marx, in the form of socialist progressive moves in order to fool the people.

Sanders isn't trying to fool anyone, he tells it like it is. Admitting he is a Democratic socialist took balls. I think a lot of Americans can appreciate that kind of honesty and courage. And that admission doesn't frighten me in the least because, if he is elected ,the power of governance will still be shared by two other branches. Frankly, I think Sanders has a shot if the young folks come out and vote.

Actually, he doesn't but he has that ability to make everyone believe that he is just a harmless little socialist when in essence, he's not. He's dishonest, bitter, and hates america. Its simple as that. Anyone that's ready to confiscate nearly 60 percent of your taxes is worthless. The govt has been fleecing us for years. Its time for the government to do without.

 

[kaz]

We will do it, true, because we are now a Democracy and no longer a Federal Republic.

We are still a democratic Republic

We are one, but we were not designed as a democracy, that term was never used by the Founding Fathers. We were designed with a federal government. Sure, the Republics that comprise the country were to be Democratic, but not the Federal government. You can look up what all that means. But we were not designed to be a Democracy, which is just tyranny of the majority

But it will be a disaster because a tiny majority forcing government healthcare on the entire country will be a disaster. It already is and you don't see that either.

I see it is not working as well as it could if BOTH sides had participated in crafting it

I want economically efficient free market capitalist healthcare, you want government corruption and bureaucricy and it given to you for free. Explain how we work together

There is no reason to sell off our nation to foreign corporations and our nations enemies

We're a global economy, and we're not "sell(ing) off" our corporations. Your fear is unfounded. Corporate America knows what we are doing, you aren't helping, go away and let us do our jobs. You are the problem, not foreigners

 

[kaz]

We will do it, true, because we are now a Democracy and no longer a Federal Republic.

We are still a democratic Republic.

But it will be a disaster because a tiny majority forcing government healthcare on the entire country will be a disaster. It already is and you don't see that either.

I see it is not working as well as it could if BOTH sides had participated in crafting it. But that is all water under the bridge now; we have it and historically no federal funded obligation to the public has ever been rescinded. We can cry about it all day and all year for decades if we want, or we could get a good businessman in charge with the cooperation of Both parties,...oh wait, but the corporations wont cooperate and will stop anyone from changing their theft of the government treasury and tax payer funds because Bendover Conservatives like you will always be there to defend corporations and attack any effort to reign them in as communism and craven greed, when it is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE..

You feel the Bern, you don't see the facts. And you have no respect for the rights of the minority. But you whaaaant it ...

I see plenty of facts, but you have nothing to rebut with and so you engage in sarcasm instead.

There is no reason to sell off our nation to foreign corporations and our nations enemies

Define "craven greed".

Craven greed is what you have when you won't give Jim your property