I Can't Imagine a God...

[emilynghiem]

I think people like you write this shit to be snarky. Its very offensive and insulting.

What causes you to hate the only people that love you unconditionally?

My parents love me unconditionally. Even they have conditions actually.

Maybe you christians need to worry about being lovable not loving others.

Real Christians aren't suppose to worry about those things. I'm not a hypocrite and I tell people the same things as I tell my family. For example, I tell my Dad, who is an atheist, that he's going to go to Hell without faith in Jesus Christ. I wouldn't bother if I didn't love him. It's frustrating because he's very stubborn and simply doesn't believe in God. I don't know why he doesn't. I know he's going to Hell for sure without Jesus. God already twice saved his life last couple years. My prayers were answered before I knew to pray them, which was awesome. I pray that God will have mercy on my dad and grant him salvation from Hell by giving him faith in Jesus Christ. Everything is in God's hand.

Father, I pray for your blessing. Let your will be done, Father, and not mine.

Hi MaxGrit

Two of my friends who are atheist just don't connect or relate to a "personified" God. That's not how they experience God.
They are secular minded, and experience God in terms of truth and compassion for others. These two I met as longtime leaders in the Peace and Justice community in Houston. Well guess what, Justice and Peace is Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As long as they live by Restorative Justice, that is the spirit of Jesus working through them in an impersonal way.
Just like Wisdom is an expression of God's spirit but is impersonal.

As long as they forgive differences and receive others who come in the name of Jesus, and they don't REJECT such people, then they at least have THAT step in salvation, where anyone who receives a child who comes in Jesus name
receives the Son, and who receives the Son receives the Father.

So as long as your father accepts you as a child of God in Jesus name, that is a key step, that connection and it just needs to be strengthened where there is no rejection or division interfering with that relationship in Christ.

I have another atheist friend who just doesn't like theists and Christians, and he knows this interferes with his ability to be open objective and neutral. He also sees the world in terms of natural approaches like Buddhism that make sense to him and motivate him to know and understand what to do and what to change in himself. He doesn't accept my explanation that Christ Jesus fulfills this process of self-awareness, self-realization ability to solve problems.

But he is honest that he just doesn't see the world in the terms and ways that Christians use. He studied and even preached the Bible, and knows all the wrong and right interpretations that denominations argue over, and just doesn't relate to that approach of sharing and rebuking other fellow believers by the Bible. He doesn't like or relate to the people who follow that, and prefers an inward approach that Buddhism helps him with, to work on clearing out the thoughts in his own mind.

Hahah, don't worry about the relationship between me and my dad. He knows I warn him about Hell because I love him. I also told my mom that she's going to Hell if she dies without Jesus Christ. I just called her and told her to watch the video about Hell. She was grateful that I love her and want her to be well.

Hell is real. Please warn others about Hell.

Dear MaxGrit do you believe the road to hell is paved with unforgiveness?
What do you call the factor that starts someone dividing or rebelling.

One friend calls it fear that first clouds judgment and starts conditioned behavior.
I focus on issues that people have trouble forgiving, where resolving and releasing those
opens them up to receive what they were blocking out.

What do you call the key issue, if you are going to explain it in secular terms?
Another atheist I discussed this with online didn't understand the big deal about sin
but TOTALLY understood that EGO is what causes all human suffering.

What about EGO is that a good explanation as to what causes the downfall of humanity
that leads down the path towards hell

 

[emilynghiem]

I was a christian for 30 years.

You were a fake Christian those 30 years. Real Christians are Christians forever.

Not true. If belief can't be changed to unbelief at will, faith is moot.

The definition of a Christian is one who believes that God Himself took on human flesh and walked among us in the skin of a Jew named Jesus and was, by choice, put to death horribly to pay for the sins of everyone, proving His success by walking out of His own tomb three days later, thus paving the way to an eternal life with God for all who believe.

The devil is in the details of defining 'sin', and what happens to those who don't buy in, but that's the basic Christian story. I too believed it once. Hook, line and gold plated sinker.



My humble opinion: Everyone who believes that story is a Christian. People calling themselves 'Christian' without understanding and BELIEVING that story are foolish.

​

It's impossible for the saints to lose their faith.

Carnal faith is false faith in Jesus Christ. Carnal faith is man's delusion and there is no work of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Carnal faith can be lost. I define false Christians as all people with carnal faith in Jesus Christ.

I would say false Christianity is to true Christianity
what false Charity is to true Charity. If you are doing things for show, to SHOW that you are giving and being good, that is still for material reward why you are doing things and not unconditional. If you give and live for lovesake in itself, where it is its own reward, where it is unconditional, that is letting God's love flow through and express itself for the benefit of all. Not doing it for self-serving outcomes.

If you hold on to beliefs based on CONDITIONS (instead of truly accepting unconditionally), and you still have issues of fear or unforgiveness/rejection going on, that may interfere with your full faith. Fear often indicates where fear is lacking.

One of the worst conditions: if you believe in holding on to certain teachings or rules, because you FEAR that you will go to hell by dishonoring God, if this is based on FEAR instead of LOVE, that can cause false faith.

No.

then how would you describe it, in secular layman's terms.

What is the factor or process that causes someone's faith to be false
and what distinguishes true faith. Can you describe the quality and how anyone can tell the difference
(not just citing the Bible if not everyone here uses that as criteria). How do you explain the same
criteria in the Bible, but in common terms anyone can understand and recognize?

 

[emilynghiem]

The definition of a Christian is one who believes that God Himself took on human flesh and walked among us in the skin of a Jew named Jesus and was, by choice, put to death horribly to pay for the sins of everyone, proving His success by walking out of His own tomb three days later, thus paving the way to an eternal life with God for all who believe.

The devil is in the details of defining 'sin', and what happens to those who don't buy in, but that's the basic Christian story. I too believed it once. Hook, line and gold plated sinker.



My humble opinion: Everyone who believes that story is a Christian. People calling themselves 'Christian' without understanding and BELIEVING that story are foolish.

​

BTW AVG-JOE I believe that my faith in Restorative Justice being the spirit of Christ Jesus for all humanity,
makes me Christian even though I follow natural laws as a secular gentile.

So I do not fit your narrow CONDITION on Christian faith.

If you believe your faith means you should be able to change beliefs,
can you change this belief to be expanded, and that there may be other
ways of expressing faith in Christ besides the limited scenario you painted which I feel is culturally biased.

Gentiles under natural laws are also governed by Christ Jesus as a separate fold of the same flock.
So experiences by people like me on that path are not necessarily how you depict using just the Bible in that way.

Can you change your belief? Or is your faith "moot" on this point?

I have changed my beliefs. Many times. Haven't you?

When too many questions led to an variation of "I'll just have to ask Jesus when I see Him in Heaven." for an answer, it was time to question the stories.

My question AVG-JOE are you willing to change your definition of what determines if someone is Christian?
I don't agree with how you worded it, because it leaves out secular gentiles who may receive and live by
the spirit of Christ Jesus WITHOUT meeting the conditions you set forth as "required"

 

[MaxGrit]

What causes you to hate the only people that love you unconditionally?

My parents love me unconditionally. Even they have conditions actually.

Maybe you christians need to worry about being lovable not loving others.

Real Christians aren't suppose to worry about those things. I'm not a hypocrite and I tell people the same things as I tell my family. For example, I tell my Dad, who is an atheist, that he's going to go to Hell without faith in Jesus Christ. I wouldn't bother if I didn't love him. It's frustrating because he's very stubborn and simply doesn't believe in God. I don't know why he doesn't. I know he's going to Hell for sure without Jesus. God already twice saved his life last couple years. My prayers were answered before I knew to pray them, which was awesome. I pray that God will have mercy on my dad and grant him salvation from Hell by giving him faith in Jesus Christ. Everything is in God's hand.

Father, I pray for your blessing. Let your will be done, Father, and not mine.

Hi MaxGrit

Two of my friends who are atheist just don't connect or relate to a "personified" God. That's not how they experience God.
They are secular minded, and experience God in terms of truth and compassion for others. These two I met as longtime leaders in the Peace and Justice community in Houston. Well guess what, Justice and Peace is Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As long as they live by Restorative Justice, that is the spirit of Jesus working through them in an impersonal way.
Just like Wisdom is an expression of God's spirit but is impersonal.

As long as they forgive differences and receive others who come in the name of Jesus, and they don't REJECT such people, then they at least have THAT step in salvation, where anyone who receives a child who comes in Jesus name
receives the Son, and who receives the Son receives the Father.

So as long as your father accepts you as a child of God in Jesus name, that is a key step, that connection and it just needs to be strengthened where there is no rejection or division interfering with that relationship in Christ.

I have another atheist friend who just doesn't like theists and Christians, and he knows this interferes with his ability to be open objective and neutral. He also sees the world in terms of natural approaches like Buddhism that make sense to him and motivate him to know and understand what to do and what to change in himself. He doesn't accept my explanation that Christ Jesus fulfills this process of self-awareness, self-realization ability to solve problems.

But he is honest that he just doesn't see the world in the terms and ways that Christians use. He studied and even preached the Bible, and knows all the wrong and right interpretations that denominations argue over, and just doesn't relate to that approach of sharing and rebuking other fellow believers by the Bible. He doesn't like or relate to the people who follow that, and prefers an inward approach that Buddhism helps him with, to work on clearing out the thoughts in his own mind.

Hahah, don't worry about the relationship between me and my dad. He knows I warn him about Hell because I love him. I also told my mom that she's going to Hell if she dies without Jesus Christ. I just called her and told her to watch the video about Hell. She was grateful that I love her and want her to be well.

Hell is real. Please warn others about Hell.

Dear MaxGrit do you believe the road to hell is paved with unforgiveness?
What do you call the factor that starts someone dividing or rebelling.

One friend calls it fear that first clouds judgment and starts conditioned behavior.
I focus on issues that people have trouble forgiving, where resolving and releasing those
opens them up to receive what they were blocking out.

What do you call the key issue, if you are going to explain it in secular terms?
Another atheist I discussed this with online didn't understand the big deal about sin
but TOTALLY understood that EGO is what causes all human suffering.

What about EGO is that a good explanation as to what causes the downfall of humanity
that leads down the path towards hell

All human are born with sin nature and all are sinners. Therefore, humans go to Hell due to their sins. This is the default. All men are dead in spirit. God's grace alone saves those whom He elected before the foundation of the world.

 

[emilynghiem]

My parents love me unconditionally. Even they have conditions actually.

Maybe you christians need to worry about being lovable not loving others.

Real Christians aren't suppose to worry about those things. I'm not a hypocrite and I tell people the same things as I tell my family. For example, I tell my Dad, who is an atheist, that he's going to go to Hell without faith in Jesus Christ. I wouldn't bother if I didn't love him. It's frustrating because he's very stubborn and simply doesn't believe in God. I don't know why he doesn't. I know he's going to Hell for sure without Jesus. God already twice saved his life last couple years. My prayers were answered before I knew to pray them, which was awesome. I pray that God will have mercy on my dad and grant him salvation from Hell by giving him faith in Jesus Christ. Everything is in God's hand.

Father, I pray for your blessing. Let your will be done, Father, and not mine.

Hi MaxGrit

Two of my friends who are atheist just don't connect or relate to a "personified" God. That's not how they experience God.
They are secular minded, and experience God in terms of truth and compassion for others. These two I met as longtime leaders in the Peace and Justice community in Houston. Well guess what, Justice and Peace is Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As long as they live by Restorative Justice, that is the spirit of Jesus working through them in an impersonal way.
Just like Wisdom is an expression of God's spirit but is impersonal.

As long as they forgive differences and receive others who come in the name of Jesus, and they don't REJECT such people, then they at least have THAT step in salvation, where anyone who receives a child who comes in Jesus name
receives the Son, and who receives the Son receives the Father.

So as long as your father accepts you as a child of God in Jesus name, that is a key step, that connection and it just needs to be strengthened where there is no rejection or division interfering with that relationship in Christ.

I have another atheist friend who just doesn't like theists and Christians, and he knows this interferes with his ability to be open objective and neutral. He also sees the world in terms of natural approaches like Buddhism that make sense to him and motivate him to know and understand what to do and what to change in himself. He doesn't accept my explanation that Christ Jesus fulfills this process of self-awareness, self-realization ability to solve problems.

But he is honest that he just doesn't see the world in the terms and ways that Christians use. He studied and even preached the Bible, and knows all the wrong and right interpretations that denominations argue over, and just doesn't relate to that approach of sharing and rebuking other fellow believers by the Bible. He doesn't like or relate to the people who follow that, and prefers an inward approach that Buddhism helps him with, to work on clearing out the thoughts in his own mind.

Hahah, don't worry about the relationship between me and my dad. He knows I warn him about Hell because I love him. I also told my mom that she's going to Hell if she dies without Jesus Christ. I just called her and told her to watch the video about Hell. She was grateful that I love her and want her to be well.

Hell is real. Please warn others about Hell.

Dear MaxGrit do you believe the road to hell is paved with unforgiveness?
What do you call the factor that starts someone dividing or rebelling.

One friend calls it fear that first clouds judgment and starts conditioned behavior.
I focus on issues that people have trouble forgiving, where resolving and releasing those
opens them up to receive what they were blocking out.

What do you call the key issue, if you are going to explain it in secular terms?
Another atheist I discussed this with online didn't understand the big deal about sin
but TOTALLY understood that EGO is what causes all human suffering.

What about EGO is that a good explanation as to what causes the downfall of humanity
that leads down the path towards hell

All human are born with sin nature and all are sinners. Therefore, humans go to Hell due to their sins. This is the default. All men are dead in spirit. God's grace alone saves those whom He elected before the foundation of the world.

OK and isn't the ability to let God's love and grace enter into us, our lives and relationships
Dependent on Forgiveness and willingness to ask God for help to forgive the sins/conditions that separate us and divide us.

Do you agree that where we agree to forgive and love each other,
we are opening up ourselves and our relations to receive in God's grace through Christ Jesus.

Do you agree that is the step in salvation where it starts
by people RECEIVING and not rejecting each other as children of God.

 

[MaxGrit]

You were a fake Christian those 30 years. Real Christians are Christians forever.

Not true. If belief can't be changed to unbelief at will, faith is moot.

The definition of a Christian is one who believes that God Himself took on human flesh and walked among us in the skin of a Jew named Jesus and was, by choice, put to death horribly to pay for the sins of everyone, proving His success by walking out of His own tomb three days later, thus paving the way to an eternal life with God for all who believe.

The devil is in the details of defining 'sin', and what happens to those who don't buy in, but that's the basic Christian story. I too believed it once. Hook, line and gold plated sinker.



My humble opinion: Everyone who believes that story is a Christian. People calling themselves 'Christian' without understanding and BELIEVING that story are foolish.

​

It's impossible for the saints to lose their faith.

Carnal faith is false faith in Jesus Christ. Carnal faith is man's delusion and there is no work of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Carnal faith can be lost. I define false Christians as all people with carnal faith in Jesus Christ.

I would say false Christianity is to true Christianity
what false Charity is to true Charity. If you are doing things for show, to SHOW that you are giving and being good, that is still for material reward why you are doing things and not unconditional. If you give and live for lovesake in itself, where it is its own reward, where it is unconditional, that is letting God's love flow through and express itself for the benefit of all. Not doing it for self-serving outcomes.

If you hold on to beliefs based on CONDITIONS (instead of truly accepting unconditionally), and you still have issues of fear or unforgiveness/rejection going on, that may interfere with your full faith. Fear often indicates where fear is lacking.

One of the worst conditions: if you believe in holding on to certain teachings or rules, because you FEAR that you will go to hell by dishonoring God, if this is based on FEAR instead of LOVE, that can cause false faith.

No.

then how would you describe it, in secular layman's terms.

What is the factor or process that causes someone's faith to be false
and what distinguishes true faith. Can you describe the quality and how anyone can tell the difference
(not just citing the Bible if not everyone here uses that as criteria). How do you explain the same
criteria in the Bible, but in common terms anyone can understand and recognize?

It's difficult to know if another person is a real Christian. However, real Christians can be certain about themselves because of the Holy Spirit residing with them. It's impossible for real Christians to lose their faith in Jesus Christ.

False Christians doesn't have the Holy Spirit and they have carnal faith.

 

[MaxGrit]

There are also non-Christian masquerading as Christians. For example, Mormons are pagans, yet they call themselves Christians.

 

[MaxGrit]

Real Christians aren't suppose to worry about those things. I'm not a hypocrite and I tell people the same things as I tell my family. For example, I tell my Dad, who is an atheist, that he's going to go to Hell without faith in Jesus Christ. I wouldn't bother if I didn't love him. It's frustrating because he's very stubborn and simply doesn't believe in God. I don't know why he doesn't. I know he's going to Hell for sure without Jesus. God already twice saved his life last couple years. My prayers were answered before I knew to pray them, which was awesome. I pray that God will have mercy on my dad and grant him salvation from Hell by giving him faith in Jesus Christ. Everything is in God's hand.

Father, I pray for your blessing. Let your will be done, Father, and not mine.

Hi MaxGrit

Two of my friends who are atheist just don't connect or relate to a "personified" God. That's not how they experience God.
They are secular minded, and experience God in terms of truth and compassion for others. These two I met as longtime leaders in the Peace and Justice community in Houston. Well guess what, Justice and Peace is Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As long as they live by Restorative Justice, that is the spirit of Jesus working through them in an impersonal way.
Just like Wisdom is an expression of God's spirit but is impersonal.

As long as they forgive differences and receive others who come in the name of Jesus, and they don't REJECT such people, then they at least have THAT step in salvation, where anyone who receives a child who comes in Jesus name
receives the Son, and who receives the Son receives the Father.

So as long as your father accepts you as a child of God in Jesus name, that is a key step, that connection and it just needs to be strengthened where there is no rejection or division interfering with that relationship in Christ.

I have another atheist friend who just doesn't like theists and Christians, and he knows this interferes with his ability to be open objective and neutral. He also sees the world in terms of natural approaches like Buddhism that make sense to him and motivate him to know and understand what to do and what to change in himself. He doesn't accept my explanation that Christ Jesus fulfills this process of self-awareness, self-realization ability to solve problems.

But he is honest that he just doesn't see the world in the terms and ways that Christians use. He studied and even preached the Bible, and knows all the wrong and right interpretations that denominations argue over, and just doesn't relate to that approach of sharing and rebuking other fellow believers by the Bible. He doesn't like or relate to the people who follow that, and prefers an inward approach that Buddhism helps him with, to work on clearing out the thoughts in his own mind.

Hahah, don't worry about the relationship between me and my dad. He knows I warn him about Hell because I love him. I also told my mom that she's going to Hell if she dies without Jesus Christ. I just called her and told her to watch the video about Hell. She was grateful that I love her and want her to be well.

Hell is real. Please warn others about Hell.

Dear MaxGrit do you believe the road to hell is paved with unforgiveness?
What do you call the factor that starts someone dividing or rebelling.

One friend calls it fear that first clouds judgment and starts conditioned behavior.
I focus on issues that people have trouble forgiving, where resolving and releasing those
opens them up to receive what they were blocking out.

What do you call the key issue, if you are going to explain it in secular terms?
Another atheist I discussed this with online didn't understand the big deal about sin
but TOTALLY understood that EGO is what causes all human suffering.

What about EGO is that a good explanation as to what causes the downfall of humanity
that leads down the path towards hell

All human are born with sin nature and all are sinners. Therefore, humans go to Hell due to their sins. This is the default. All men are dead in spirit. God's grace alone saves those whom He elected before the foundation of the world.

OK and isn't the ability to let God's love and grace enter into us, our lives and relationships
Dependent on Forgiveness and willingness to ask God for help to forgive the sins/conditions that separate us and divide us.

Do you agree that where we agree to forgive and love each other,
we are opening up ourselves and our relations to receive in God's grace through Christ Jesus.

Do you agree that is the step in salvation where it starts
by people RECEIVING and not rejecting each other as children of God.

God's grace is irresistible.

You talk of forgiveness and fear because you lack understanding of how saints think. Saints love God with all their heart. Love for others and self comes afterward. I base what I say on what I know about myself. My love for self and others as myself is comes from my love for God. Jesus also talked about this concept in Matthew 22:

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment.

39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi MaxGrit

Two of my friends who are atheist just don't connect or relate to a "personified" God. That's not how they experience God.
They are secular minded, and experience God in terms of truth and compassion for others. These two I met as longtime leaders in the Peace and Justice community in Houston. Well guess what, Justice and Peace is Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As long as they live by Restorative Justice, that is the spirit of Jesus working through them in an impersonal way.
Just like Wisdom is an expression of God's spirit but is impersonal.

As long as they forgive differences and receive others who come in the name of Jesus, and they don't REJECT such people, then they at least have THAT step in salvation, where anyone who receives a child who comes in Jesus name
receives the Son, and who receives the Son receives the Father.

So as long as your father accepts you as a child of God in Jesus name, that is a key step, that connection and it just needs to be strengthened where there is no rejection or division interfering with that relationship in Christ.

I have another atheist friend who just doesn't like theists and Christians, and he knows this interferes with his ability to be open objective and neutral. He also sees the world in terms of natural approaches like Buddhism that make sense to him and motivate him to know and understand what to do and what to change in himself. He doesn't accept my explanation that Christ Jesus fulfills this process of self-awareness, self-realization ability to solve problems.

But he is honest that he just doesn't see the world in the terms and ways that Christians use. He studied and even preached the Bible, and knows all the wrong and right interpretations that denominations argue over, and just doesn't relate to that approach of sharing and rebuking other fellow believers by the Bible. He doesn't like or relate to the people who follow that, and prefers an inward approach that Buddhism helps him with, to work on clearing out the thoughts in his own mind.

Hahah, don't worry about the relationship between me and my dad. He knows I warn him about Hell because I love him. I also told my mom that she's going to Hell if she dies without Jesus Christ. I just called her and told her to watch the video about Hell. She was grateful that I love her and want her to be well.

Hell is real. Please warn others about Hell.

Dear MaxGrit do you believe the road to hell is paved with unforgiveness?
What do you call the factor that starts someone dividing or rebelling.

One friend calls it fear that first clouds judgment and starts conditioned behavior.
I focus on issues that people have trouble forgiving, where resolving and releasing those
opens them up to receive what they were blocking out.

What do you call the key issue, if you are going to explain it in secular terms?
Another atheist I discussed this with online didn't understand the big deal about sin
but TOTALLY understood that EGO is what causes all human suffering.

What about EGO is that a good explanation as to what causes the downfall of humanity
that leads down the path towards hell

All human are born with sin nature and all are sinners. Therefore, humans go to Hell due to their sins. This is the default. All men are dead in spirit. God's grace alone saves those whom He elected before the foundation of the world.

OK and isn't the ability to let God's love and grace enter into us, our lives and relationships
Dependent on Forgiveness and willingness to ask God for help to forgive the sins/conditions that separate us and divide us.

Do you agree that where we agree to forgive and love each other,
we are opening up ourselves and our relations to receive in God's grace through Christ Jesus.

Do you agree that is the step in salvation where it starts
by people RECEIVING and not rejecting each other as children of God.

God's grace is irresistible.

You talk of forgiveness and fear because you lack understanding of how saints think. Saints love God with all their heart. Love for others and self derives from the love of God.

I base what I say on what I know about myself. I forgive everyone automatically. I have no fear. I don't hate anyone. I love all sinners yet I hate their sins.

Why is it necessary to attach "hate" to the sins.
Can't we address sins for the sake of correction and healing and resolving thier causes?

 

[MaxGrit]

Hahah, don't worry about the relationship between me and my dad. He knows I warn him about Hell because I love him. I also told my mom that she's going to Hell if she dies without Jesus Christ. I just called her and told her to watch the video about Hell. She was grateful that I love her and want her to be well.

Hell is real. Please warn others about Hell.

Dear MaxGrit do you believe the road to hell is paved with unforgiveness?
What do you call the factor that starts someone dividing or rebelling.

One friend calls it fear that first clouds judgment and starts conditioned behavior.
I focus on issues that people have trouble forgiving, where resolving and releasing those
opens them up to receive what they were blocking out.

What do you call the key issue, if you are going to explain it in secular terms?
Another atheist I discussed this with online didn't understand the big deal about sin
but TOTALLY understood that EGO is what causes all human suffering.

What about EGO is that a good explanation as to what causes the downfall of humanity
that leads down the path towards hell

All human are born with sin nature and all are sinners. Therefore, humans go to Hell due to their sins. This is the default. All men are dead in spirit. God's grace alone saves those whom He elected before the foundation of the world.

OK and isn't the ability to let God's love and grace enter into us, our lives and relationships
Dependent on Forgiveness and willingness to ask God for help to forgive the sins/conditions that separate us and divide us.

Do you agree that where we agree to forgive and love each other,
we are opening up ourselves and our relations to receive in God's grace through Christ Jesus.

Do you agree that is the step in salvation where it starts
by people RECEIVING and not rejecting each other as children of God.

God's grace is irresistible.

You talk of forgiveness and fear because you lack understanding of how saints think. Saints love God with all their heart. Love for others and self derives from the love of God.

I base what I say on what I know about myself. I forgive everyone automatically. I have no fear. I don't hate anyone. I love all sinners yet I hate their sins.

Why is it necessary to attach "hate" to the sins.
Can't we address sins for the sake of correction and healing and resolving thier causes?

God hate sins.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm a terrible sinner.

Then you're doing it wrong

 

[AVG-JOE]

Only God knows His plan for my life. God is in charge and I just follow his guidance. Life is good because I have no worries and no fears. I leave all my problems for God and just follow His guidance.

How do you receive this 'guidance'? Does God talk to you directly?

 

[MaxGrit]

I'm a terrible sinner.

Then you're doing it wrong

sinners do wrong things by definition

 

[AVG-JOE]

I was a christian for 30 years.

You were a fake Christian those 30 years. Real Christians are Christians forever.

Not true. If belief can't be changed to unbelief at will, faith is moot.

The definition of a Christian is one who believes that God Himself took on human flesh and walked among us in the skin of a Jew named Jesus and was, by choice, put to death horribly to pay for the sins of everyone, proving His success by walking out of His own tomb three days later, thus paving the way to an eternal life with God for all who believe.

The devil is in the details of defining 'sin', and what happens to those who don't buy in, but that's the basic Christian story. I too believed it once. Hook, line and gold plated sinker.



My humble opinion: Everyone who believes that story is a Christian. People calling themselves 'Christian' without understanding and BELIEVING that story are foolish.

​

??? Dear AVG-JOE
I believe I am Emily Nghiem and I was born to Vietnamese parents.
Sure I take that on faith. Are you saying if I can't WILL myself to change my beliefs about that,
then faith is moot?

I understand faith should not be coerced and/or based on false conditions.

But just because someone cannot change their beliefs, why are you saying faith is pointless, what?

Can you please explain what you mean, because obviously I missed it Thanks Joe!

It may be silly to change your beliefs like that, but if they're not yours to change, the terrorists win.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm a terrible sinner.

Then you're doing it wrong

sinners do wrong things by definition

Depends on your definition of sin.

 

[MaxGrit]

I'm a terrible sinner.

Then you're doing it wrong

sinners do wrong things by definition

Depends on your definition of sin.

God defines sins.

 

[DriftingSand]

But God nor the vast majority of believers in God are to blame for the actions of a few unscrupulous men (and/or women).

The query that must be posed is, have any of the ancient stories been used as often by the unscrupulous as by the truly pious?

If the history of any given story proves to be about a 50/50 split between being used for good and used for evil, what does that say to the odds that the story in question is actually God's tool on earth?

What are the odds that God would EVER allow his tool to be used for evil? ​

A hammer can be used to drive nails or smash heads. The tool is designed to drive nails but people (not the hammer) are prone to misuse it. The company that created the hammer had a specific intent and purpose in mind when they produced it and can't be blamed when folks use a hammer for the wrong reasons. The same truism can be applied to cars, prescription pain killers, and the Bible.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Depends on your definition of sin.

God defines sins.

The only thing left then is to define God, eh?

 

[DriftingSand]

Can not imagine GOD either....

He is big thats all I sense

He is Infinite.... human brains can not contain Infinity.....can hardly imagine it.

And if anything it would care if you were a good person not a believer.

Only God is good. All men are sinners and deserving of Hell. You didn't learn much as a fake Christian for 30 years.

I didn't buy it. I'm not any more a sinner than you. In fact I'm better than you because I don't think I get a free pass because I believe a nursery rhyme.

I'm a terrible sinner. It's very likely that you're a much better person compare to me. However, God demands perfection from his creatures. Therefore, you're required to be perfect as a duty to God. Therefore, if you sin just once, there's no way to make up for your sins by good works.

Christians get to commit adultery in their hearts and still go to heaven. You guys even get to murder. How many christian woman have gotten abortions and were very sad and sorry about it and ask god for forviveness and so christians even think they can murder their own babies and still go to heaven? What a brilliant cult story.

At least you recognize that abortion is murder. That's a start.

But more to your point. Any human on earth can be forgiven of their sins and go to heaven. All he/she needs to do is repent of their sin with a contrite heart and ask Christ to forgive them of their sin. None are without sin! That's true of you, me, the President, the Pope, and the ice cream man. All fall short of the glory of God. It's for that reason that God sent His Son to sacrifice Himself for the sins of the world. He suffered the penalty for you and me. So ... by the free gift of grace are we saved -- not by our own works but by faith in Him and His shed blood.

 

[sealybobo]

I think people like you write this shit to be snarky. Its very offensive and insulting.

What causes you to hate the only people that love you unconditionally?

My parents love me unconditionally. Even they have conditions actually.

Maybe you christians need to worry about being lovable not loving others.

Real Christians aren't suppose to worry about those things. I'm not a hypocrite and I tell people the same things as I tell my family. For example, I tell my Dad, who is an atheist, that he's going to go to Hell without faith in Jesus Christ. I wouldn't bother if I didn't love him. It's frustrating because he's very stubborn and simply doesn't believe in God. I don't know why he doesn't. I know he's going to Hell for sure without Jesus. God already twice saved his life last couple years. My prayers were answered before I knew to pray them, which was awesome. I pray that God will have mercy on my dad and grant him salvation from Hell by giving him faith in Jesus Christ. Everything is in God's hand.

Father, I pray for your blessing. Let your will be done, Father, and not mine.

Hi MaxGrit

Two of my friends who are atheist just don't connect or relate to a "personified" God. That's not how they experience God.
They are secular minded, and experience God in terms of truth and compassion for others. These two I met as longtime leaders in the Peace and Justice community in Houston. Well guess what, Justice and Peace is Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As long as they live by Restorative Justice, that is the spirit of Jesus working through them in an impersonal way.
Just like Wisdom is an expression of God's spirit but is impersonal.

As long as they forgive differences and receive others who come in the name of Jesus, and they don't REJECT such people, then they at least have THAT step in salvation, where anyone who receives a child who comes in Jesus name
receives the Son, and who receives the Son receives the Father.

So as long as your father accepts you as a child of God in Jesus name, that is a key step, that connection and it just needs to be strengthened where there is no rejection or division interfering with that relationship in Christ.

I have another atheist friend who just doesn't like theists and Christians, and he knows this interferes with his ability to be open objective and neutral. He also sees the world in terms of natural approaches like Buddhism that make sense to him and motivate him to know and understand what to do and what to change in himself. He doesn't accept my explanation that Christ Jesus fulfills this process of self-awareness, self-realization ability to solve problems.

But he is honest that he just doesn't see the world in the terms and ways that Christians use. He studied and even preached the Bible, and knows all the wrong and right interpretations that denominations argue over, and just doesn't relate to that approach of sharing and rebuking other fellow believers by the Bible. He doesn't like or relate to the people who follow that, and prefers an inward approach that Buddhism helps him with, to work on clearing out the thoughts in his own mind.

Hahah, don't worry about the relationship between me and my dad. He knows I warn him about Hell because I love him. I also told my mom that she's going to Hell if she dies without Jesus Christ. I just called her and told her to watch the video about Hell. She was grateful that I love her and want her to be well.

Hell is real. Please warn others about Hell.

And if anything it would care if you were a good person not a believer.

Only God is good. All men are sinners and deserving of Hell. You didn't learn much as a fake Christian for 30 years.

I didn't buy it. I'm not any more a sinner than you. In fact I'm better than you because I don't think I get a free pass because I believe a nursery rhyme.

I'm a terrible sinner. It's very likely that you're a much better person compare to me. However, God demands perfection from his creatures. Therefore, you're required to be perfect as a duty to God. Therefore, if you sin just once, there's no way to make up for your sins by good works.

Christians get to commit adultery in their hearts and still go to heaven. You guys even get to murder. How many christian woman have gotten abortions and were very sad and sorry about it and ask god for forviveness and so christians even think they can murder their own babies and still go to heaven? What a brilliant cult story.

At least you recognize that abortion is murder. That's a start.

But more to your point. Any human on earth can be forgiven of their sins and go to heaven. All he/she needs to do is repent of their sin with a contrite heart and ask Christ to forgive them of their sin. None are without sin! That's true of you, me, the President, the Pope, and the ice cream man. All fall short of the glory of God. It's for that reason that God sent His Son to sacrifice Himself for the sins of the world. He suffered the penalty for you and me. So ... by the free gift of grace are we saved -- not by our own works but by faith in Him and His shed blood.

What a hoot. So a christian can murder as long as they are sorry after. Such bs.