I don't want dreamers deported, but ...

[John Shaw]

Stop trying to tell me what good and productive people they are. I don't give a fuck. It's not even relevant.

 

[Valerie]

why isn't it relevant?

 

[John Shaw]

Because the law isn't about how good or productive you are. It cares whether you are following the law. When you look at the situation of the dreamers, they are in violation of the law, but did not make a conscious effort to break it in the first place. They then came out of the shadows, expressing an interest in doing right by the law, given the opportunity. It doesn't really matter what their quality is (provided they are law-abiding); it would be unjust and cruel to deport them given their circumstances. Regardless of anything else.

 

[Valerie]

“They have grown up and been educated as Americans; most came here through no choice of their own, and many know no other country. They are working to make our communities richer and stronger,” the coalition wrote. “Pushing them into the shadows would hurt our schools and communities.”


Eli Broad, the billionaire philanthropist and charter school backer, said that ending DACA “will do a great disservice not just to these individuals but to all Americans.”


“As a child of immigrants, I know firsthand how hard immigrants work to make our country a better place,” Broad said in a statement. “The undocumented migrants who came to America as children are thriving in our schools, our workplaces and our communities. They are our co-workers and classmates, our teachers and neighbors, our doctors and soldiers.”

Education leaders call on Trump to protect ‘dreamers’

 

[Valerie]

Because the law isn't about how good or productive you are. It cares whether you are following the law. When you look at the situation of the dreamers, they are in violation of the law, but did not make a conscious effort to break it in the first place. They then came out of the shadows, expressing an interest in doing right by the law, given the opportunity. It doesn't really matter what their quality is (provided they are law-abiding); it would be unjust and cruel to deport them given their circumstances. Regardless of anything else.

these young people are protected by DACA precisely because they are in good standing with the law.

 

[John Shaw]

Because the law isn't about how good or productive you are. It cares whether you are following the law. When you look at the situation of the dreamers, they are in violation of the law, but did not make a conscious effort to break it in the first place. They then came out of the shadows, expressing an interest in doing right by the law, given the opportunity. It doesn't really matter what their quality is (provided they are law-abiding); it would be unjust and cruel to deport them given their circumstances. Regardless of anything else.

these young people are protected by DACA precisely because they are in good standing with the law.

They were protected by an executive order. They aren't in good standing with immigration law. They were in good standing with the executive order that kept them protected.

Actually, I'm not sure DACA even was an order. Think it might've been a memorandum.

 

[bendog]

It's not relevant that children who came here by and large without economic security took advantage of what our society provides and became useful and taxpaying residents who have only known this as their country?

 

[Valerie]

Myth 1: It's a pathway to citizenship
DACA gives beneficiaries a temporary reprieve from deportation, allowing them to stay lawfully in the country, granting them work permits and allowing them to obtain driver's licenses. And it stops there. The program is not amnesty, nor is it a path to become a US citizen or a legal permanent resident. Dreamers are able to reside legally in the United States for two years and then apply for renewal.

Myth 2: They don't pay taxes
DACA recipients have paid about $2 billion in state and local taxes, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy estimates.


Myth 3: They get Medicaid and Obamacare
Some types of immigrants living in the United States have health insurance through the Affordable Care Act, but under DACA, Dreamers are not eligible. DACA grantees cannot get Medicaid either. The only other ways for Dreamers to get health insurance is by receiving it from an employer, being a spouse's dependent, going to a community clinic or purchasing it on their own outside the exchange, paying the entire premium.

Myth 4: They are going to college for free
It depends. DACA opened the doorway for undocumented immigrants to enroll in college, pay in-state tuition and in some cases gain access to financial aid packages. While DACA students are not eligible for federal financial aid, some states let them pay in-state tuition, and a few offer them state-sponsored aid. Public and private universities tend to handle students in different ways.

Myth 5: They are stealing jobs from American citizens
There's actually a shortage of qualified workers in the United States, the Federal Reserve said in a survey of businesses across the country released in July. Tech companies in New York can't find software developers. Construction firms in Virginia can't find skilled builders and trucking companies in Kansas are short on drivers, just to name a few industries with hiring issues. Experts say ending protections for DACA recipients would worsen the shortage of workers in the country. Silicon Valley to Trump: 'Dreamers are vital'


5 DACA myths debunked - CNN

 

[Valerie]

Because the law isn't about how good or productive you are. It cares whether you are following the law. When you look at the situation of the dreamers, they are in violation of the law, but did not make a conscious effort to break it in the first place. They then came out of the shadows, expressing an interest in doing right by the law, given the opportunity. It doesn't really matter what their quality is (provided they are law-abiding); it would be unjust and cruel to deport them given their circumstances. Regardless of anything else.

i get what you are saying and i don't disagree...

 

[John Shaw]

It's not relevant that children who came here by and large without economic security took advantage of what our society provides and became useful and taxpaying residents who have only known this as their country?

No.It isn't.

 

[impuretrash]

All that 'useful and productive members of society' jazz sounds like propaganda to me. WTF is wrong with everybody?

 

[Pete7469]

I really don't have a problem with letting most of the illegals stay if they've never been arrested otherwise, speak english or are at least learning it and are forever forbidden from voting, along with real border security that prevents people from sneaking through. It can and should be accomplished before any sort of amnesty is negotiated.

 

[Mac1958]

Stop trying to tell me what good and productive people they are. I don't give a fuck. It's not even relevant.

That's a perfectly reasonable point.

So, as we move on from that, we need a bi-partisan approach (so that we're not knee-jerking back and forth depending on which party has the most power) that satisfies as many Americans as possible, recognizing that we're not all going to get what we want. That could look something like this:

1. Recognize that deporting all illegals simply is not going to happen
   
2. Deport criminals who are here legally
3. Legalize those who are here, and put them at the end of the line for citizenship
4. Seal the borders (how about we bring home soldiers wasting time and money in the Middle East for that?)
5. Start enforcing aggressive employment law with American businesses who hire newly-arriving illegals
   
6. Convene a North American security summit with the specific goal of addressing and ultimately solving the REAL problem here, the fact that so many people south of our border are so fucking desperate to escape the shit holes in which they live

Those three things would be a great start.
.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I don't want them deported. I want them executed. Call it "late-term" abortion (which I am for, by the way).

and, a hard-working and productive rapist is still a rapist. A hard-working and productive kiddy porn addict is still a kiddy porn addict.

A hard-working and productive law breaker is a law breaker. Their work ethic and value to society is irrelevant.

 

[bendog]

All that 'useful and productive members of society' jazz sounds like propaganda to me. WTF is wrong with everybody?

It's not propaganda to call them all rapists and drug dealers, "and I assume some are good people too."? The irony is they run counter to the breibart speak. Yes, they got public education and probably food stamps and Medicaid.

But that isn't to say we want open borders. But the xenophobic racism is not the reality.

 

[John Shaw]

I don't want them deported. I want them executed. Call it "late-term" abortion (which I am for, by the way).

and, a hard-working and productive rapist is still a rapist. A hard-working and productive kiddy porn addict is still a kiddy porn addict.

A hard-working and productive law breaker is a law breaker. Their work ethic and value to society is irrelevant.

Watch that edge. You'll cut yoursself.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Stop trying to tell me what good and productive people they are. I don't give a fuck. It's not even relevant.

That's a perfectly reasonable point.

So, as we move on from that, we need a bi-partisan approach (so that we're not knee-jerking back and forth depending on which party has the most power) that satisfies as many Americans as possible, recognizing that we're not all going to get what we want. That could look something like this:

1. Recognize that deporting all illegals simply is not going to happen
   
2. Deport criminals who are here legally
3. Legalize those who are here, and put them at the end of the line for citizenship
4. Seal the borders (how about we bring home soldiers wasting time and money in the Middle East for that?)
5. Start enforcing aggressive employment law with American businesses who hire newly-arriving illegals
   
6. Convene a North American security summit with the specific goal of addressing and ultimately solving the REAL problem here, the fact that so many people south of our border are so fucking desperate to escape the shit holes in which they live

Those three things would be a great start.
.

I would support that if ALL of that was part of the deal. Piecemeal is what the democrats want and is nothing but more of the same bullshit. They are fighting to keep their voting base, so they will not approve that plan.

 

[Slyhunter]

Stop trying to tell me what good and productive people they are. I don't give a fuck. It's not even relevant.

That's a perfectly reasonable point.

So, as we move on from that, we need a bi-partisan approach (so that we're not knee-jerking back and forth depending on which party has the most power) that satisfies as many Americans as possible, recognizing that we're not all going to get what we want. That could look something like this:

1. Recognize that deporting all illegals simply is not going to happen
   
2. Deport criminals who are here legally
3. Legalize those who are here, and put them at the end of the line for citizenship
4. Seal the borders (how about we bring home soldiers wasting time and money in the Middle East for that?)
5. Start enforcing aggressive employment law with American businesses who hire newly-arriving illegals
   
6. Convene a North American security summit with the specific goal of addressing and ultimately solving the REAL problem here, the fact that so many people south of our border are so fucking desperate to escape the shit holes in which they live

Those three things would be a great start.
.

I would support that if ALL of that was part of the deal. Piecemeal is what the democrats want and is nothing but more of the same bullshit. They are fighting to keep their voting base, so they will not approve that plan.

Build the wall, seal the border, and we'll think about letting the DACA people stay.

 

[easyt65]

“They have grown up and been educated as Americans; most came here through no choice of their own, and many know no other country. They are working to make our communities richer and stronger,” the coalition wrote. “Pushing them into the shadows would hurt our schools and communities.”


Eli Broad, the billionaire philanthropist and charter school backer, said that ending DACA “will do a great disservice not just to these individuals but to all Americans.”


“As a child of immigrants, I know firsthand how hard immigrants work to make our country a better place,” Broad said in a statement. “The undocumented migrants who came to America as children are thriving in our schools, our workplaces and our communities. They are our co-workers and classmates, our teachers and neighbors, our doctors and soldiers.”

Education leaders call on Trump to protect ‘dreamers’

What an emotional, heart-warming story...
...that does not matter SHIT!

While the argument for snowflakes is that eliminating the ACA is 'cruel', they seek to minimize or even eliminate the fact that it is unconstitutional, illegal, and always has been.

Barry knew this, and despite knowing what he was doing was illegal he did it anyway.

What is cruel is creating a program unconstitutionally, illegally, in which the govt supported human traffickers and other criminals who brought these kids here illegally against their will - without any say. The Obama Administration itself even illegally brought these kids into the country.

He gave them false hopes and false promises based on an Unconstitutional and illegal act, knowing full well that one day what is happening now could be a possibility.

He and his Democrats could have done this Constitutionally and legally by passing legislation. Instead, he chose to bypass Congress and illegally Institute this program as law by his own 'edict', which is basically what an Executive Order is.

This is not the GOP's fault or doing.

President Donald Trump is returning the Rule of Law back to the United States, forcing our politicians to adhere to the US Constitution, specifically the Separation of Powers. He is enforcing US immigration law and the Rule of Law by which this country is, or at least should be, governed.

Liberals respond to these facts by declaring, "But our laws are cruel and we should be allowed to abandon them if we can come up with a sufficient emotional argument to support the Unconstitutional and illegal Acts."

Yeah, this is some of that radical Left Wing anarchist / fascist BS attempting to undermine and ignore the Constitution and Rule of Law on which this country is built.

These kids and young adults were displaced because of Barack Obama's illegal Acts. These kids and young people now face the possibility of being displaced again, returned to other countries where they have never been before or can't remember, because of Barack Obama's illegal act.

I completely agree. It was cruel for Barack Obama to uproot these kids / cause these kids to be uprooted and brought here illegally based on a false promise that he could create his own individual path to citizenship for these illegals while refusing to enforce existing u.s. immigration law.

Snowflakes can b**** all they want to but the one responsible for all this happening is none other than former president Barack Obama.

 

[impuretrash]

All that 'useful and productive members of society' jazz sounds like propaganda to me. WTF is wrong with everybody?

It's not propaganda to call them all rapists and drug dealers, "and I assume some are good people too."? The irony is they run counter to the breibart speak. Yes, they got public education and probably food stamps and Medicaid.

But that isn't to say we want open borders. But the xenophobic racism is not the reality.

He didn't say that so your argument is invalid.

 

[John Shaw]

“They have grown up and been educated as Americans; most came here through no choice of their own, and many know no other country. They are working to make our communities richer and stronger,” the coalition wrote. “Pushing them into the shadows would hurt our schools and communities.”


Eli Broad, the billionaire philanthropist and charter school backer, said that ending DACA “will do a great disservice not just to these individuals but to all Americans.”


“As a child of immigrants, I know firsthand how hard immigrants work to make our country a better place,” Broad said in a statement. “The undocumented migrants who came to America as children are thriving in our schools, our workplaces and our communities. They are our co-workers and classmates, our teachers and neighbors, our doctors and soldiers.”

Education leaders call on Trump to protect ‘dreamers’

What an emotional, heart-warming story...
...that does not matter SHIT!

While the argument for snowflakes is that eliminating the ACA is 'cruel', they seek to minimize or even eliminate the fact that it is unconstitutional, illegal, and always has been.

Barry knew this, and despite knowing what he was doing was illegal he did it anyway.

What is cruel is creating a program unconstitutionally, illegally, in which ythe govt supported human traffickers and other criminals who brought these kids here illegally against their will - without any say. The Obama Administration itself even illegally brought these kids into the country.

He gave them false hopes and false promises based on an unconstitutional and illegal act, knowing full well that one day what is happening now could be a possibility.

He and his Democrats could have done this constitutionally and legally by passing legislation. Instead, he chose to bypass Congress and illegally Institute this program as law by his own 'edict', which is basically what an Executive Order is.

This is not the GOP fault or doing. President Donald Trump is returning the rule of law back to the United States, forcing our politicians to adhere to the US Constitution, specifically the separation of powers. He is enforcing US immigration law and the rule of law by which this country is or at least should be governed.

Liberals respond to these facts by declaring, "But our laws are cruel and we should be allowed to abandon them if we can come up with a sufficient emotional argument to support the Unconstitutional and illegal Acts."

Yeah, this is some of that radical Left Wing anarchist / fascist BS attempting to undermine and ignore the Constitution and rule of law on which this country is built.

These kids and young adults were displaced because of Barack Obama's illegal Acts. These kids and young people now face the possibility of being displaced, returned to other countries where they have never been before or can't remember, because of Barack Obama's illegal act.

I completely agree. It was cruel for Barack Obama to uproot these kids / cause these kids to be uprooted and brought here illegally based on a false promise that he could create his own individual path to citizenship for these illegals.

Snowflakes can b**** all they want to but the one responsible for all this happening is none other than former president Barack Obama.

I think the president is doing the right thing, by the book at least. Unfortunately, congress is useless and will probably fail these kids.