I find it very disturbing

[Foxfyre]

That the threads that get the most posts are the ones on gays. I guess that issue divides the US like no other issue. There are very strong feelings on both sides, and both sides sometimes make good arguments.

The only way to resolve it is to let the people speak by voting. We need either a national referendum on gay marriage or a constitutional amendment on it. Let the people decide and lets all live by that decision.

Certainly society must accommodate our gay citizens so they are full participants and are free to pursue life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness as all of us are intended to do. There are always a few haters around, but they are in an insignificant minority. The problem is how to accommodate one group without trampling on the rights of another. And when you peel back all the hype, propaganda, partisanship, and self-serving interests, how to accommodate all, straight and gay alike, is what the debate really is all about.

But IMO, the reason that it is so monopolizing message boards and the national attention right now is because liberalism has pretty well run out of ammunition on many its sacred cows and has 'exhausted' itself--see my thread on that in the new Structured Debate Zone. It has lost most of its clout on the economy, healthcare, trade, immigration, etc. as liberalism/progressivism is increasingly losing favor with Americans overall.

The only two riveting issues they really have left are gay rights and women's rights. And that is why they keep pushing those issues to the top of the list for attention.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

That the threads that get the most posts are the ones on gays. I guess that issue divides the US like no other issue. There are very strong feelings on both sides, and both sides sometimes make good arguments.

The only way to resolve it is to let the people speak by voting. We need either a national referendum on gay marriage or a constitutional amendment on it. Let the people decide and lets all live by that decision.

The People have spoken by voting.

The Left has sought to REVERSE THE VOTES, through the illicit abuse of "The Judiciary"

 

[PratchettFan]

Since court after court agrees "it's in the Constitution" your last comment is obviously false. We shall see what the SC says later this year.

You are free to call it anything you like. However, if the state calls it marriage for one group it has to call it marriage for another. That is what people don't seem to get. This is about how the state treats citizens. This has no impact upon you unless you want to marry someone of the same sex. If not, then you are not affected in any manner.

If the SCOTUS rules that gay marriage is legal, then so be it. But that will not change my mind about what is right and what is wrong. You members of the gay mafia want to mandate how people think, that is the real danger here. Read Orwell or Rand, you might get it.

And, such a ruling will legally open the door for all kinds of multiple marriages, relative marriages, etc.

Be careful what you wish for.

No one is requiring you to change your mind. However, I think it is the anti-SSM side which wants to mandate how people think. Or at least what people are allowed to express. Happily, that is changing.

Nope, what I want is for society as a whole to decide these societal issues of right and wrong. One judge with an agenda should not decide something that affects all of society.

I am perfectly willing to accept the will of the majority, are you?

No, I'm not. I am willing for the law to be applied in accordance with the Constitution. That is how our society works. We are not based upon mob rule. We are based upon the law.

YES, AND LAWS ARE PASSED BY MAJORITY VOTE, THE CONSTITUTION WAS RATIFIED BY MAJORITY VOTE, OUR LEADERS ARE ELECTED BY MAJORITY VOTE. MAJORITY VOTE IS NOT MOB RULE, ITS DEMOCRACY. MINORITY RIGHTS WERE ESTABLISHED BY MAJORITY VOTE.

MINORITY MANDATE IS TYRANNY.

FORGET THE GAY AGENDA. THIS IS ABOUT HOW OUR SOCIETY DECIDES WHAT IT CONSIDERS RIGHT AND WRONG.

iF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE A MINORITY DECIDES HOW WE LIVE, MOVE TO FRICKEN NORTH KOREA.

I suggest you read the Constitution. That is what this country is based upon. If you want to live in a nation where it isn't, then move somewhere else.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

... The problem is how to accommodate one group without trampling on the rights of another....

That's not a problem...

The Sexually Abnormal have the same rights as everyone else.

What they crave is the "RIGHT" to promote perverse reasoning, which sets FALSITY AS TRUTH.

There is no potential for such a right..., as the concept itself is harmful to the individuals who promote, as well as every individual who is subjected to it.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

If the SCOTUS rules that gay marriage is legal, then so be it. But that will not change my mind about what is right and what is wrong. You members of the gay mafia want to mandate how people think, that is the real danger here. Read Orwell or Rand, you might get it.

And, such a ruling will legally open the door for all kinds of multiple marriages, relative marriages, etc.

Be careful what you wish for.

No one is requiring you to change your mind. However, I think it is the anti-SSM side which wants to mandate how people think. Or at least what people are allowed to express. Happily, that is changing.

Nope, what I want is for society as a whole to decide these societal issues of right and wrong. One judge with an agenda should not decide something that affects all of society.

I am perfectly willing to accept the will of the majority, are you?

No, I'm not. I am willing for the law to be applied in accordance with the Constitution. That is how our society works. We are not based upon mob rule. We are based upon the law.

YES, AND LAWS ARE PASSED BY MAJORITY VOTE, THE CONSTITUTION WAS RATIFIED BY MAJORITY VOTE, OUR LEADERS ARE ELECTED BY MAJORITY VOTE. MAJORITY VOTE IS NOT MOB RULE, ITS DEMOCRACY. MINORITY RIGHTS WERE ESTABLISHED BY MAJORITY VOTE.

MINORITY MANDATE IS TYRANNY.

FORGET THE GAY AGENDA. THIS IS ABOUT HOW OUR SOCIETY DECIDES WHAT IT CONSIDERS RIGHT AND WRONG.

iF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE A MINORITY DECIDES HOW WE LIVE, MOVE TO FRICKEN NORTH KOREA.

I suggest you read the Constitution. That is what this country is based upon. If you want to live in a nation where it isn't, then move somewhere else.

Cite the passages of the USC which require that the minority decides how we live...

And since TRUTH (Reality) requires that such does not exist in the USC... I'll duly note and summarily accept your concession IN ADVANCE!

 

[kaz]

As a conservative

The reason Jim Crow laws were needed were that the businesses didn't want to discriminate. The Montgomery bus system was strongly opposed to forcing their most reliable customers to the back. Bigotry belongs in the open, you don't have to work so hard to justify that. Democrats like PA laws because they support leftist authority over the economy, they don't give a shit about fairness. They oppose fairness because their whole schtick is about division

 

[PratchettFan]

No one is requiring you to change your mind. However, I think it is the anti-SSM side which wants to mandate how people think. Or at least what people are allowed to express. Happily, that is changing.

Nope, what I want is for society as a whole to decide these societal issues of right and wrong. One judge with an agenda should not decide something that affects all of society.

I am perfectly willing to accept the will of the majority, are you?

No, I'm not. I am willing for the law to be applied in accordance with the Constitution. That is how our society works. We are not based upon mob rule. We are based upon the law.

YES, AND LAWS ARE PASSED BY MAJORITY VOTE, THE CONSTITUTION WAS RATIFIED BY MAJORITY VOTE, OUR LEADERS ARE ELECTED BY MAJORITY VOTE. MAJORITY VOTE IS NOT MOB RULE, ITS DEMOCRACY. MINORITY RIGHTS WERE ESTABLISHED BY MAJORITY VOTE.

MINORITY MANDATE IS TYRANNY.

FORGET THE GAY AGENDA. THIS IS ABOUT HOW OUR SOCIETY DECIDES WHAT IT CONSIDERS RIGHT AND WRONG.

iF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE A MINORITY DECIDES HOW WE LIVE, MOVE TO FRICKEN NORTH KOREA.

I suggest you read the Constitution. That is what this country is based upon. If you want to live in a nation where it isn't, then move somewhere else.

Cite the passages of the USC which require that the minority decides how we live...

And since TRUTH (Reality) requires that such does not exist in the USC... I'll duly note and summarily accept your concession IN ADVANCE!

Article 3, Section 2. Seriously, I do wish people would actually read the Constitution if they insist in talking about it.

 

[Foxfyre]

... The problem is how to accommodate one group without trampling on the rights of another....

That's not a problem...

The Sexually Abnormal have the same rights as everyone else.

What they crave is the "RIGHT" to promote perverse reasoning, which sets FALSITY AS TRUTH.

There is no potential for such a right..., as the concept itself is harmful to the individuals who promote, as well as every individual who is subjected to it.

I disagree. What is perverse will be seen and described differently by different individuals. And even if homosexuailty is a deviation from normal--and the jury is still out on that--it does not logical follow that it is perverse any more than any trait any of us have that deviates from what is considered normal.

In liberty we all have the unalienable right to our own beliefs, thoughts, perceptions, and even our prejudices and perversities if that is what we choose.

What the debate must be is whether we have the right to impose our beliefs, thoughts, perceptions, prejudices, perversities, etc. on anybody else no matter how right or noble or positive or just we consider them to be.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I disagree. What is perverse will be seen and described differently by different individuals.

Well, that happens all the time.

But that's what we have dictionaries for; to define concepts, formally, so that we can communicate effectively.

What you're claiming is that words can mean anything to anyone.

But imagine the irony, wherein THAT very position of yours IS a perversion of human reasoning.

Let me help ya through this: Perversion: the alteration of something from its original course, meaning, or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended.

So once again, we find the lowly Progressive, coming to advise the reader, advocating through reasoning which constitutes, irrefutably so... can only produce REGRESSION.

 

[rightwinger]

That the threads that get the most posts are the ones on gays. I guess that issue divides the US like no other issue. There are very strong feelings on both sides, and both sides sometimes make good arguments.

The only way to resolve it is to let the people speak by voting. We need either a national referendum on gay marriage or a constitutional amendment on it. Let the people decide and lets all live by that decision.

Certainly society must accommodate our gay citizens so they are full participants and are free to pursue life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness as all of us are intended to do. There are always a few haters around, but they are in an insignificant minority. The problem is how to accommodate one group without trampling on the rights of another. And when you peel back all the hype, propaganda, partisanship, and self-serving interests, how to accommodate all, straight and gay alike, is what the debate really is all about.

But IMO, the reason that it is so monopolizing message boards and the national attention right now is because liberalism has pretty well run out of ammunition on many its sacred cows and has 'exhausted' itself--see my thread on that in the new Structured Debate Zone. It has lost most of its clout on the economy, healthcare, trade, immigration, etc. as liberalism/progressivism is increasingly losing favor with Americans overall.

The only two riveting issues they really have left are gay rights and women's rights. And that is why they keep pushing those issues to the top of the list for attention.

The next battlefield will be over the Middle Class and who can do the most for them
Gay Marriage is a done deal, all that is left is the whimpering from the right

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

And even if homosexuailty is a deviation from normal--and the jury is still out on that--...

Incontestably, Homosexuality, NOT ONLY DEVIATES from the Human Physiological Sexual Standard... IT DEVIATES AS FAR FROM THE HUMAN PHYSIOLOGICAL STANDARD AS IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

it does not logical follow that it is perverse any more than any trait any of us have that deviates from what is considered normal.

Nonsense... "IT" not only does so, YOU are demonstrating such, by trying to equate abnormality as normality... which is FALSITY, EQUATED TO TRUTH.

And THAT... is a deviation from the standard of human intellectual normalcy, AS IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

In liberty we all have the unalienable right to our own beliefs, thoughts, perceptions, and even our prejudices and perversities if that is what we choose.

Of course you do... what you do not have, is a right to require someone else to accept falsity as truth.

And your entire argument is a long string of falsity, which you're advocating as truth.

If you're bright enough to recognize that, then you're a liar; thus illegitimate, as a citizen.

If you're not bright enough to recognize it, then you're an imbecile... this illegitimate, as a citizen.

Both of which circumstances presenting as a perversion of human reasoning, and the same deviant reasoning from which the craving for sexual gratification with those of your own gender, is spawned.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The next battlefield will be over the Middle Class and who can do the most for them
Gay Marriage is a done deal, all that is left is the whimpering from the right

(The Reader should understand that where a Leftist is speaking of "The Middle Class", they're speaking of The POOR. As, there is no potential for a "Middle Class" for a culture governed by those who are HOSTILE to THOSE WHO ARE NOT POOR and entirely dependent upon THE POOR, for their power.)

 

[Foxfyre]

And even if homosexuailty is a deviation from normal--and the jury is still out on that--...

Incontestably, Homosexuality, NOT ONLY DEVIATES from the Human Physiological Sexual Standard... IT DEVIATES AS FAR FROM THE HUMAN PHYSIOLOGICAL STANDARD AS IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

it does not logical follow that it is perverse any more than any trait any of us have that deviates from what is considered normal.

Nonsense... "IT" not only does so, YOU are demonstrating such, by trying to equate abnormality as normality... which is FALSITY, EQUATED TO TRUTH.

And THAT... is a deviation from the standard of human intellectual normalcy, AS IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

In liberty we all have the unalienable right to our own beliefs, thoughts, perceptions, and even our prejudices and perversities if that is what we choose.

Of course you do... what you do not have, is a right to require someone else to accept falsity as truth.

And your entire argument is a long string of falsity, which you're advocating as truth.

If you're bright enough to recognize that, then you're a liar; thus illegitimate, as a citizen.

If you're not bright enough to recognize it, then you're an imbecile... this illegitimate, as a citizen.

Both of which circumstances presenting as a perversion of human reasoning, and the same deviant reasoning from which the craving for sexual gratification with those of your own gender, is spawned.

Well I guess I'll have to be labeled imbecile by you then. But I'm pretty damn sure I'm more right about this than you are. But it is a free country and, if we believe in liberty, everybody has as much right to be wrong as they have a right to be right.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Gay Marriage is a done deal, all that is left is the whimpering from the right.

Marriage is the joining of one man and one woman.

 

[rightwinger]

Homosexuality has been with us since there has been mankind

You can't stop it, you can only drive it underground like ISIS does

 

[rightwinger]

Gay Marriage is a done deal, all that is left is the whimpering from the right.

Marriage is the joining of one man and one woman.

If that is what you want your marriage to be, you are welcome to it
You just can't force others to accept your definition

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Well I guess I'll have to be labeled imbecile by you then. But I'm pretty damn sure I'm more right about this than you are. But it is a free country and, if we believe in liberty, everybody has as much right to be wrong as they have a right to be right.

Of course you 'have to'... as you've no means to contest the reasoning.

(I should point out that THAT is yet another of the innumerable 'downsides' to advancing of deviant reasoning. It simply cannot compete with sound reasoning. AND I should also point out that you being 'pretty dam' sure' makes your concession, THAT MUCH SWEETER!)

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

 

[Toro]

Well I guess I'll have to be labeled imbecile by you then. But I'm pretty damn sure I'm more right about this than you are. But it is a free country and, if we believe in liberty, everybody has as much right to be wrong as they have a right to be right.

Of course you 'have to'... as you've no means to contest the reasoning.

(I should point out that THAT is yet another of the innumerable 'downsides' to advancing of deviant reasoning. It simply cannot compete with sound reasoning. AND I should also point out that you being 'pretty dam' sure' makes your concession, THAT MUCH SWEETER!)

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

Did Pubes lose another argument?

 

[Foxfyre]

That the threads that get the most posts are the ones on gays. I guess that issue divides the US like no other issue. There are very strong feelings on both sides, and both sides sometimes make good arguments.

The only way to resolve it is to let the people speak by voting. We need either a national referendum on gay marriage or a constitutional amendment on it. Let the people decide and lets all live by that decision.

Certainly society must accommodate our gay citizens so they are full participants and are free to pursue life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness as all of us are intended to do. There are always a few haters around, but they are in an insignificant minority. The problem is how to accommodate one group without trampling on the rights of another. And when you peel back all the hype, propaganda, partisanship, and self-serving interests, how to accommodate all, straight and gay alike, is what the debate really is all about.

But IMO, the reason that it is so monopolizing message boards and the national attention right now is because liberalism has pretty well run out of ammunition on many its sacred cows and has 'exhausted' itself--see my thread on that in the new Structured Debate Zone. It has lost most of its clout on the economy, healthcare, trade, immigration, etc. as liberalism/progressivism is increasingly losing favor with Americans overall.

The only two riveting issues they really have left are gay rights and women's rights. And that is why they keep pushing those issues to the top of the list for attention.

The next battlefield will be over the Middle Class and who can do the most for them
Gay Marriage is a done deal, all that is left is the whimpering from the right

If gay marriage is a 'done deal' then why does it dominate the national conversation more than anything else? As I previously posted, I don't think it will ever be a 'done deal' until the left has a more volative issue to use to retain power. Again, since the left has lost so much ground in favoribility on issues like economics, healthcare, regulatory authority, immigration, national security, foreign relations, etc., the gay marriage/gay rights and abortion/women's rights issues are pretty much all they have left to use for leverage.

And except for a few members here who are as strongly anti-gay as some others are anti-religion, anti-conservative, anti-Republican etc., I see that most are quite sincere that gay people must have the same rights, opportunities, accommodations as anybody else. That is no longer the issue.

The issue is whether others will be forced to give up their rights out of some misguided view that this is necessary to accommodate gay rights.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Homosexuality has been with us since there has been mankind

You can't stop it, you can only drive it underground like ISIS does

I'm not driving 'it' underground... Homosexuals are driving it underground.

But in their defense, that homosexuality is the consequence of Mental Disorder, explains why homosexuals have been locked in the closet for the VAST MAJORITY of human existence... .

Look at what they've done to the US culture in just 20 years.

You 'believe' that 'If we just allowed the poor homosexuals to marry, they'd shut up and go away and we would be a better culture for our tolerance of them.

But of course you're wrong. After the Homosexual will come the polygamists and the over pedophiles... The Homosexuals will demand that ANYTHING which they can claim is set against THEM is a result of BIGOTRY... making further and more ludicrous DEMANDS.

Until they make such a nuisance of themselves that people just get tired of it and go to work culling them from the cultural herd. It's happened TIME and again throughout human history.

LOL! You see, YOU "FEEL" that homosexuals have ALWAYS been discriminated against and that THIS is the FIRST TIME EVER that homosexuals have been accepted as normal citizens.

It's not...

And you can't find the intellectual steam to wonder WHY, given that previous cultures accepted homosexuals that the 1970s showed up with Homosexuals being LOCKED IN THE CLOSET?

I mean you claim that homosexuality is PERFECTLY NORMAL... that such is NOT a function of mental disorder. You claim that such people are GAY!

Yet, the PLANET for ALMOST ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY HAS HAD THEM LOCKED IN THE CLOSET?

If YOU are correct... WHY would people of sound mind, who present a festive, sportive and merry attitude, be LOCKED IN THE CLOSET?