"I Had an Abortion"

[Neotrotsky]

Avoiding it does make it a straw man

Considering that I have posted that I tend to be more Libertarian than not
I will answer your question



But, it is only correct and proper to answer my first
Should that state require abortions in cases where the birth defects would
be too costly to the state, in the long run?
(imagine a question on abortion in a abortion thread)

thanks

 

[JoeB131]

Avoiding it does make it a straw man

Considering that I have posted that I tend to be more Libertarian than not
I will answer your question



But, it is only correct and proper to answer my first
Should that state require abortions in cases where the birth defects would
be too costly to the state, in the long run?
(imagine a question on abortion in a abortion thread)

thanks

No, it should not. That decision should be up to the woman and her doctor.

I will go even further. We should have single payer health insurance and if a woman chooses to keep her child, the government should provide for its medical care.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Thanks for the answer

I agree that the decision for any medical decision should
be between a person and their doctor without the state
determining the allocation of resources. Sadly, the left's insistence
on gov't intrusion in the market will necessitate the gov't making such
decisions on death and birth. Most on the left choose to hide from that reality or
are comfortable with the likes of the idiots who planned the Papa Obamacare website making
decisions for us.

To answer your question
As a Libertarian I believe most things should be legal for adults
abortion, drugs, gambling etc. It is your god-given right to go
to hell. I really don't care. However, I should not have to pay for it nor
would I advocate for one to do them. I personally find the procedure
of abortion, in most cases(not rape incest etc), outside saving the life of a mother to be morally reprehensible


By the way, for the left to be legally consistent a non-married man
should have the legal right to not pay for a child if they are willing to give up
all legal claim to the minor and assets of the minor. Since the man
has no choice in her aborting or not, they should not be indebted to their decision.
Just like the Left would not want a man, even if married, making the decision for
a women. After all why should he be "punished" with a child or for just having sex.
Why should we push our morality on them.

With abortion, like the majority of Americans,
I agree in limits on late term abortions where the fetus is healthy
and there is no danger to the mother.

I do not choose the radical view of groups on the left like
planned parenthood

 

[Zoom-boing]

[qu

Jesus, you don't find anything wrong with a 43 year old having sex with a 13 year old? What a sick bastard. Guess you missed where she also said this: "Geimer testified that Polanski provided champagne that they shared as well as part of a quaalude,[15] and despite her protests, he performed oral, vaginal, and anal sex acts upon her,[16][17] each time after being told 'no' and being asked to stop."; "Geimer has insisted that the sex was non-consensual"; "Geimer sued Polanski in 1988, alleging sexual assault, intentional infliction of emotional distress and seduction"; "In a 2003 interview,[13] Samantha Geimer said, "Straight up, what he did to me was wrong."; "decades of publicity as well as the prosecutor's focus on lurid details continues to traumatize her and her family."

He raped her.

When the 13 year old's m other is pimping her out, no, I don't think that's a big deal.

The mother def had a screw loose and should have been shot for allowing her 13 year old to be alone with Polanski. I mean really, wtf?? That aside -- a 43 year old man drugged and sexually assaulted and sodomized a 13 year old child. No matter how that 13 year old 'feels' about it, he raped her (she even says this in interviews as an adult.)

And not one peep from you about the complete and total wrongness of what he did.

Sick.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Polanski
was a scum

The left is always making excuses for these perverts
like Polanski and Woody Allen

 

[Vox]

Actually, surviability at 20 weeks is ZERO.

Surviability at 21 weeks is ZERO.

At 23 weeks, it's 17%.

the insanity that you are going to cut a fetus out of a woman to make her watch it die anyway is really the kind of mad science Dr. Mengele would have liked.

so?
what has survivability at 20 weeks to do with the baby feeling excruciating pain in utero when being cut to pieces?
c-section spares that pain. and there is never a dire need to perform an abortion at 20 weeks and not to wait to 25 or even 30 to perform a c-section and give a baby higher chances for survival.

if one is not dr. mengele, obviously, one understands that there is absolutely no reason to torture the baby to pieces in utero instead of delivering the baby via c-section

Frankly, you haven't demonstrated to me that a fetus feels pain at 20 weeks.

This is a decision that should be made by a woman and her doctor...

NOT a bunch of religious idiots trying to impose their bronze age superstitions on the rest of us.

frankly if you just LIE that something has not been demonstrated and it has been - it is possible only to prove it when you can be shoveled back in time to 20 weeks gestational age in your mothers womb and get in there with the utensils - and cut few of your toes - then you might get the proof under your skin - because lying idiots like you feel only when it gets to you.

it is NOT a matter between the doctor and a woman - it is a murder and a torturous one and if there is anything suddenly going wrong at 18-20 weeks ( which medically wise can happen only to the baby - the midgestation is not the most risky time for the mother) the preterm labor should be considered, not the abortion.
abortion should never happen, but if there is any real risk to the mothers life - after 18 weeks of gestation the delivering of the baby can be done by c-section - in order to prevent the torturous death of the baby. the baby won't survive at 18-20 weeks, but at least it won't be tortured.

If you are human, not dr. mengele

 

[JoeB131]

[qu

Jesus, you don't find anything wrong with a 43 year old having sex with a 13 year old? What a sick bastard. Guess you missed where she also said this: "Geimer testified that Polanski provided champagne that they shared as well as part of a quaalude,[15] and despite her protests, he performed oral, vaginal, and anal sex acts upon her,[16][17] each time after being told 'no' and being asked to stop."; "Geimer has insisted that the sex was non-consensual"; "Geimer sued Polanski in 1988, alleging sexual assault, intentional infliction of emotional distress and seduction"; "In a 2003 interview,[13] Samantha Geimer said, "Straight up, what he did to me was wrong."; "decades of publicity as well as the prosecutor's focus on lurid details continues to traumatize her and her family."

He raped her.

When the 13 year old's m other is pimping her out, no, I don't think that's a big deal.

The mother def had a screw loose and should have been shot for allowing her 13 year old to be alone with Polanski. I mean really, wtf?? That aside -- a 43 year old man drugged and sexually assaulted and sodomized a 13 year old child. No matter how that 13 year old 'feels' about it, he raped her (she even says this in interviews as an adult.)

And not one peep from you about the complete and total wrongness of what he did.

Sick.

Here's the thing. This was not the girl's first time having sex.

Too young? Absolutely. But it was really a different time.

 

[JoeB131]

[

frankly if you just LIE that something has not been demonstrated and it has been - it is possible only to prove it when you can be shoveled back in time to 20 weeks gestational age in your mothers womb and get in there with the utensils - and cut few of your toes - then you might get the proof under your skin - because lying idiots like you feel only when it gets to you.

it is NOT a matter between the doctor and a woman - it is a murder and a torturous one and if there is anything suddenly going wrong at 18-20 weeks ( which medically wise can happen only to the baby - the midgestation is not the most risky time for the mother) the preterm labor should be considered, not the abortion.
abortion should never happen, but if there is any real risk to the mothers life - after 18 weeks of gestation the delivering of the baby can be done by c-section - in order to prevent the torturous death of the baby. the baby won't survive at 18-20 weeks, but at least it won't be tortured.

If you are human, not dr. mengele

Again, forcing a woman to have a deformed baby to please your invisible sky man, and then slicing her open to get it out.

That's just crazy talk.

Again- only two people who should be involved- a woman and her doctor.

Period.

 

[Vox]

[

frankly if you just LIE that something has not been demonstrated and it has been - it is possible only to prove it when you can be shoveled back in time to 20 weeks gestational age in your mothers womb and get in there with the utensils - and cut few of your toes - then you might get the proof under your skin - because lying idiots like you feel only when it gets to you.

it is NOT a matter between the doctor and a woman - it is a murder and a torturous one and if there is anything suddenly going wrong at 18-20 weeks ( which medically wise can happen only to the baby - the midgestation is not the most risky time for the mother) the preterm labor should be considered, not the abortion.
abortion should never happen, but if there is any real risk to the mothers life - after 18 weeks of gestation the delivering of the baby can be done by c-section - in order to prevent the torturous death of the baby. the baby won't survive at 18-20 weeks, but at least it won't be tortured.

If you are human, not dr. mengele

Again, forcing a woman to have a deformed baby to please your invisible sky man, and then slicing her open to get it out.

That's just crazy talk.

Again- only two people who should be involved- a woman and her doctor.

Period.

don't invent things.
a woman can deliver a baby, deformed, or not, via c-section, not inflict terrible pain on that innocent baby just because she does not want to see her.

incredible selfishness which you have demonstrated all over this thread is not the reason to torture an innocent human being for your convenience.
If the woman decides to terminate pregnancy after 18 week - a poven gestational age when the baby feels the pain 100% - she can do it through preterm labor or c-section.

No abortion or torture of the innocent baby at this gestational age. a doctor has nothing to do here - it should be the law. and it will be, as it is everywhere else, except this barbaric ( in this dimension) country.

PERIOD.

 

[JoeB131]

[

don't invent things.
a woman can deliver a baby, deformed, or not, via c-section, not inflict terrible pain on that innocent baby just because she does not want to see her.

incredible selfishness which you have demonstrated all over this thread is not the reason to torture an innocent human being for your convenience.
If the woman decides to terminate pregnancy after 18 week - a poven gestational age when the baby feels the pain 100% - she can do it through preterm labor or c-section.

No abortion or torture of the innocent baby at this gestational age. a doctor has nothing to do here - it should be the law. and it will be, as it is everywhere else, except this barbaric ( in this dimension) country.

PERIOD.

FETUSES ARE NOT BABIES!!!!!

Done.

 

[Neotrotsky]

even at 8 months 29 days?

 

[JoeB131]

even at 8 months 29 days?

wouldn't know.

No one has an abortion at that point, do they?

Actually, very few women have abortions at 20 weeks, for all Vox's whining, and the ones who do have DAMNED GOOD REASONS.

Much like the pro-Choice side going on about Rape, (Less than 1% of all abortions performed), the Pro-Life side going on about late abortions because they almost look like babies if you ignore scale, the reality is, most abortions are performed on women between 8-12 weeks who happily spread their legs to concieve.

Now, if you really want to see less of that, there's ways to do that. Better sex education, better availability of contraception, better support of workers rights and paid family and medical leave.

That would involve more government, although not as much government as you would need to force a woman to have c-section to deliver a deformed baby she didn't want...

 

[Neotrotsky]

so 8 months then

 

[JoeB131]

so 8 months then

Again- what the woman and her doctor thinks is appropriate...

 

[Neotrotsky]

Well the question is based on your statement
"FETUSES ARE NOT BABIES!!!!!"

is it first breath
first day at school
when does the fetus become a human being for you?

 

[Vox]

[

don't invent things.
a woman can deliver a baby, deformed, or not, via c-section, not inflict terrible pain on that innocent baby just because she does not want to see her.

incredible selfishness which you have demonstrated all over this thread is not the reason to torture an innocent human being for your convenience.
If the woman decides to terminate pregnancy after 18 week - a poven gestational age when the baby feels the pain 100% - she can do it through preterm labor or c-section.

No abortion or torture of the innocent baby at this gestational age. a doctor has nothing to do here - it should be the law. and it will be, as it is everywhere else, except this barbaric ( in this dimension) country.

PERIOD.

FETUSES ARE NOT BABIES!!!!![/SIZE]

Done.

YES, THEY ARE - FETUSES AND EMBRYOS ARE HUMAN BABIES AT DIFFERENT STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT.

period.

 

[Vox]

so 8 months then

Again- what the woman and her doctor thinks is appropriate...

no, it is NOT.

at 8 months whatever woman thinks is IRRELEVANT - the doctor is OBLIGED by the Hippocratic oath to deliver the baby - via usual birth or c-section

 

[thanatos144]

Somewhere in the country is a woman with self respect hurry liberals you must now abuse her of this and tell her she is only a vagina and the only choice she has is to kill her babies

 

[Noomi]

YES, THEY ARE - FETUSES AND EMBRYOS ARE HUMAN BABIES AT DIFFERENT STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT.

period.

Show us the law where it states that a fetus is a person.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

[

frankly if you just LIE that something has not been demonstrated and it has been - it is possible only to prove it when you can be shoveled back in time to 20 weeks gestational age in your mothers womb and get in there with the utensils - and cut few of your toes - then you might get the proof under your skin - because lying idiots like you feel only when it gets to you.

it is NOT a matter between the doctor and a woman - it is a murder and a torturous one and if there is anything suddenly going wrong at 18-20 weeks ( which medically wise can happen only to the baby - the midgestation is not the most risky time for the mother) the preterm labor should be considered, not the abortion.
abortion should never happen, but if there is any real risk to the mothers life - after 18 weeks of gestation the delivering of the baby can be done by c-section - in order to prevent the torturous death of the baby. the baby won't survive at 18-20 weeks, but at least it won't be tortured.

If you are human, not dr. mengele

Again, forcing a woman to have a deformed baby to please your invisible sky man, and then slicing her open to get it out.

That's just crazy talk.

Again- only two people who should be involved- a woman and her doctor.

Period.

don't invent things.
a woman can deliver a baby, deformed, or not, via c-section, not inflict terrible pain on that innocent baby just because she does not want to see her.

incredible selfishness which you have demonstrated all over this thread is not the reason to torture an innocent human being for your convenience.
If the woman decides to terminate pregnancy after 18 week - a poven gestational age when the baby feels the pain 100% - she can do it through preterm labor or c-section.

No abortion or torture of the innocent baby at this gestational age. a doctor has nothing to do here - it should be the law. and it will be, as it is everywhere else, except this barbaric ( in this dimension) country.

PERIOD.

Ridiculous.

‘Banning’ abortion is the least effective way to end the practice.

Abortion is a complex, difficult problem that can’t be solved at the ballot box or in the courts.

If you want to see abortion continue and likely spread underground, unregulated and unchecked, then ‘ban’ it.