“I hate that thug music.”

[Montrovant]

I'd have to disagree with your contention you are not confused. You first wondered why rap was considered poetry set to music and other music forms were not. Then you claimed you could hear me being pretentious. Since you can neither hear me nor was I trying to impress you I can only surmise you are indeed confused.

If you understand there is a difference between rapping and singing then you are halfway there. Rap involves primarily the same form as poetry and the focus is on the words as well. With singing the focus is on the music and the singers ability to hit notes, runs, etc. You can sing without uttering an intelligible word or even having a message. Try that doing that with rap and you start to understand.

What I actually said is that the description poetry set to music could be used for any kind of music with lyrics. That continues to be true, unless you contend that lyrics which are sung rather than rapped are not poetry.

I said your post was pretentious-sounding. If you don't understand how I was using that phrase, I don't know what to tell you. Obviously I don't mean that I am listening to your voice. I mean that what you wrote had a pretentious tone to it. Rather than answer my question, you gave a 'ask someone who does it and you'll know' answer, which implies that I can't understand on my own and wouldn't understand any explanation you gave me, and also assumes I am not a traditional singer who cannot rap or vice versa.

What is or is not the focus of singing is entirely up to the singer/band. There is no rule that the focus must be on the music and the ability to hit notes. Singers can focus on the words, that is not something exclusive to rap.

What does 'rap has primarily the same form as poetry' mean? There are various kinds of poetry. Often poetry has no true rules or forms at all and is a free-flowing thing. What is the huge difference in rap lyrics and sung lyrics that makes rap more poetry (which is still something you have yet to explain, what is 'more' poetry?)? Is it not possible for rap lyrics to be sung traditionally, or lyrics from traditionally sung songs to be rapped?

I would say that the main difference between rapping and singing is not whether one is poetry and the other not, or one being 'more' poetry than the other, but simply the presentation of the lyrics. Those lyrics could be exactly the same. There is no need for poetry to be spoken, rapped or sung before it becomes poetry. All lyrics can be seen as poetry set to music.

To your original question I gave this answer.

Rap is more so poetry than most other forms of music specifically because their is very little singing done by the rapper. Its straight verses set to music. The interplay of words and figurative meanings are the focal point.

You wanted to dissect that further and I told you to:

Ask any rapper that cannot sing or any singer that cannot rap and you will know why.

I write poetry and rap lyrics. They are very similar in structure in that they usually convey a profound message in a figurative fashion. Rap has the added difficulty of using words that rhyme or sound like they rhyme when rapping. The talent of rapping is something a lot of singers do not have and the reverse could be said of rappers. Since rapping hinges on the words being more figurative than literal just like poetry then its closer to poetry than singing. Thats the difference.

Here's what I don't understand. Why are any lyrics only 'close' to poetry? They ARE poetry.

Singing usually has the added difficulty of using words that rhyme or sound like they rhyme when singing.

Can you not have rap songs based on the literal? Are songs that are sung never figurative?

I think you are creating an artificial difference between rap lyrics and traditionally sung lyrics.

As I've said, someone could use the exact same words and rap or sing if they wanted to.

If you could give an example of rap lyrics that could not be sung, maybe I'd see this difference you are speaking of.

 

[Asclepias]

What I actually said is that the description poetry set to music could be used for any kind of music with lyrics. That continues to be true, unless you contend that lyrics which are sung rather than rapped are not poetry.

I said your post was pretentious-sounding. If you don't understand how I was using that phrase, I don't know what to tell you. Obviously I don't mean that I am listening to your voice. I mean that what you wrote had a pretentious tone to it. Rather than answer my question, you gave a 'ask someone who does it and you'll know' answer, which implies that I can't understand on my own and wouldn't understand any explanation you gave me, and also assumes I am not a traditional singer who cannot rap or vice versa.

What is or is not the focus of singing is entirely up to the singer/band. There is no rule that the focus must be on the music and the ability to hit notes. Singers can focus on the words, that is not something exclusive to rap.

What does 'rap has primarily the same form as poetry' mean? There are various kinds of poetry. Often poetry has no true rules or forms at all and is a free-flowing thing. What is the huge difference in rap lyrics and sung lyrics that makes rap more poetry (which is still something you have yet to explain, what is 'more' poetry?)? Is it not possible for rap lyrics to be sung traditionally, or lyrics from traditionally sung songs to be rapped?

I would say that the main difference between rapping and singing is not whether one is poetry and the other not, or one being 'more' poetry than the other, but simply the presentation of the lyrics. Those lyrics could be exactly the same. There is no need for poetry to be spoken, rapped or sung before it becomes poetry. All lyrics can be seen as poetry set to music.

To your original question I gave this answer.



You wanted to dissect that further and I told you to:

Ask any rapper that cannot sing or any singer that cannot rap and you will know why.

I write poetry and rap lyrics. They are very similar in structure in that they usually convey a profound message in a figurative fashion. Rap has the added difficulty of using words that rhyme or sound like they rhyme when rapping. The talent of rapping is something a lot of singers do not have and the reverse could be said of rappers. Since rapping hinges on the words being more figurative than literal just like poetry then its closer to poetry than singing. Thats the difference.

Here's what I don't understand. Why are any lyrics only 'close' to poetry? They ARE poetry.

Singing usually has the added difficulty of using words that rhyme or sound like they rhyme when singing.

Can you not have rap songs based on the literal? Are songs that are sung never figurative?

I think you are creating an artificial difference between rap lyrics and traditionally sung lyrics.

As I've said, someone could use the exact same words and rap or sing if they wanted to.

If you could give an example of rap lyrics that could not be sung, maybe I'd see this difference you are speaking of.

I think you are asking the wrong question. You can attempt to rap or sing anything both ways. However, making it work is entirely another issue. The differences are not artificial and that's why one is called singing and the other rapping. In rapping the emphasis is on the words and in singing it is on the voice of the singer and music.

Here is a neutral view point

The difference lies in the way that these subjects are presented because rapping is usually meant to enliven and excite a party so it is more pumped up and uses more profound language. It uses wordplay that can also be found in poetry. It also involves a lot of rhyming techniques because rhyming and rhythm are two of the basic components of rapping in addition to the flow or interaction between the pitch, timbre, and volume of the delivery of the rapped words.

Read more: Difference Between Rapping and Singing | Difference Between | Rapping vs Singing http://www.differencebetween.net/mi...ce-between-rapping-and-singing/#ixzz2tEg0MD4A
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[Montrovant]

To your original question I gave this answer.



You wanted to dissect that further and I told you to:

I write poetry and rap lyrics. They are very similar in structure in that they usually convey a profound message in a figurative fashion. Rap has the added difficulty of using words that rhyme or sound like they rhyme when rapping. The talent of rapping is something a lot of singers do not have and the reverse could be said of rappers. Since rapping hinges on the words being more figurative than literal just like poetry then its closer to poetry than singing. Thats the difference.

Here's what I don't understand. Why are any lyrics only 'close' to poetry? They ARE poetry.

Singing usually has the added difficulty of using words that rhyme or sound like they rhyme when singing.

Can you not have rap songs based on the literal? Are songs that are sung never figurative?

I think you are creating an artificial difference between rap lyrics and traditionally sung lyrics.

As I've said, someone could use the exact same words and rap or sing if they wanted to.

If you could give an example of rap lyrics that could not be sung, maybe I'd see this difference you are speaking of.

I think you are asking the wrong question. You can attempt to rap or sing anything both ways. However, making it work is entirely another issue. The differences are not artificial and that's why one is called singing and the other rapping. In rapping the emphasis is on the words and in singing it is on the voice of the singer and music

That is entirely dependent on both the singer/band and the listener. I find the words very important in some songs, almost irrelevant in others.

My point, however, is that I can see no reason that rap lyrics are more poetry than traditionally sung lyrics, or even what their being more poetry means. In both cases they are poetry, the difference is in the presentation. If you write the words to a rap song, you will be writing a poem. If you write the words to a traditionally sung song, you will be writing a poem.

 

[bodecea]

'Thug music' is just that. It appeals to the lowest form of human being. Is it any wonder why the entire Black race across the globe is abhorred?
If it's not stealing your Grandma's pension money or fucking your 11 year old cousin or sucker-punching a little old White woman b/c "you're bored" life isn't 'fun'. The other races in the world are very fast reaching the point where it's time to stop this sub-human behavior. Once it starts there will be a global war against those you are apparently genetically not capable of living in a civilized peaceful world. It will never end until every man woman and child can walk on any street safely anywhere on the planet at any time day or night.

Why are the consumers of thug music 75% white? Are you calling your own ethnicity sub-human?

Apparently you do not have an IQ high enough to comprehend that 'Thug music' is puked out by pretty much 100% Blacks. Blacks comprise about 13% of the population.
Try very hard to comprehend this exampleI'll go really slow) Say there are 13 people making something and offering it to a total of 100 other people. Are you capable of understanding that the potential number of consumers far out weights the demand from the 13?
You make the same inane argument that "Whites commit more crime than Blacks". NOT BASED ON PERCENT OF POPULATION! Given this very simple to understand fact Blacks commit far more crimes than Whites.
Anyway, sorry to have asked you to use up todays quota into intelligent thought. You may take a rest now.

Wait....you just said there are no white rappers?

 

[S.J.]

I think we can all agree on one thing. Rap is for people who can't sing.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

'Thug music' is just that. It appeals to the lowest form of human being. Is it any wonder why the entire Black race across the globe is abhorred?
If it's not stealing your Grandma's pension money or fucking your 11 year old cousin or sucker-punching a little old White woman b/c "you're bored" life isn't 'fun'. The other races in the world are very fast reaching the point where it's time to stop this sub-human behavior. Once it starts there will be a global war against those you are apparently genetically not capable of living in a civilized peaceful world. It will never end until every manz woman and child can walk on any street safely anywhere on the planet at any time day or night.

Why are the consumers of thug music 75% white? Are you calling your own ethnicity sub-human?

No, just the ones that buy the crap.

 

[daws101]

I think we can all agree on one thing. Rap is for people who can't sing.

like with everything else you've said on this thread, that would be wrong.

 

[BillyZane]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzSjtuMGOQ]Bone Thugs n Harmony - Thuggish Ruggish Bone - YouTube[/ame]

 

[daws101]

'Thug music' is just that. It appeals to the lowest form of human being. Is it any wonder why the entire Black race across the globe is abhorred?
If it's not stealing your Grandma's pension money or fucking your 11 year old cousin or sucker-punching a little old White woman b/c "you're bored" life isn't 'fun'. The other races in the world are very fast reaching the point where it's time to stop this sub-human behavior. Once it starts there will be a global war against those you are apparently genetically not capable of living in a civilized peaceful world. It will never end until every manz woman and child can walk on any street safely anywhere on the planet at any time day or night.

Why are the consumers of thug music 75% white? Are you calling your own ethnicity sub-human?

No, just the ones that buy the crap.

the same thing could be said about most all music.

 

[Asclepias]

Here's what I don't understand. Why are any lyrics only 'close' to poetry? They ARE poetry.

Singing usually has the added difficulty of using words that rhyme or sound like they rhyme when singing.

Can you not have rap songs based on the literal? Are songs that are sung never figurative?

I think you are creating an artificial difference between rap lyrics and traditionally sung lyrics.

As I've said, someone could use the exact same words and rap or sing if they wanted to.

If you could give an example of rap lyrics that could not be sung, maybe I'd see this difference you are speaking of.

I think you are asking the wrong question. You can attempt to rap or sing anything both ways. However, making it work is entirely another issue. The differences are not artificial and that's why one is called singing and the other rapping. In rapping the emphasis is on the words and in singing it is on the voice of the singer and music

That is entirely dependent on both the singer/band and the listener. I find the words very important in some songs, almost irrelevant in others.

My point, however, is that I can see no reason that rap lyrics are more poetry than traditionally sung lyrics, or even what their being more poetry means. In both cases they are poetry, the difference is in the presentation. If you write the words to a rap song, you will be writing a poem. If you write the words to a traditionally sung song, you will be writing a poem.

I highlighted something profound in your post. The words in rap are very relevant. There is nothing else holding up the rap song except the words. Its the same with poetry. You have to have words and they have to have meaning. I disagree that song lyrics are always poetry. I've never heard a rap song that wasn't poetry. However that might hinge on what you and I think poetry consists of.

 

[S.J.]

I think we can all agree on one thing. Rap is for people who can't sing.

like with everything else you've said on this thread, that would be wrong.

Yeah, then why don't they sing?

 

[Asclepias]

I think we can all agree on one thing. Rap is for people who can't sing.

like with everything else you've said on this thread, that would be wrong.

Yeah, then why don't they sing?

Ever heard of Lauryn Hill? She does both.

 

[J.E.D]

A knife isn't the same as a gun, but the same kind of person who carries a knife would also be inclined to carry a gun. Dunn said he saw a shotgun and the cops did not bother to look for one. That's negligence on their part and it raises reasonable doubt for a conviction. If there IS a conviction it will most likely be overturned on appeal. I'll donate to his defense fund.

It was negligence on the part of police that they didn't look for a gun that they didn't know existed because the shooter fled the scene and never reported the incident? That's some backwards logic if I ever did see it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

White people fully support this music. What does that say about them?

Only the kids do, as rap is a immature simple form of African tribal "music"

I love it when people who know jack shit about music,art, and show bizz in general spew ignorance...
you did know that all the nonsense you're calling fact, was said about rock, jazz, country, even classical music at one time or another.
in the 1950's rock and roll was "the devils music"....
you can take pride in the fact that your ignorance has a long and colorful history.

And Tank's ignorance in general is consistent with the fact that he's a racist.

 

[Montrovant]

I think you are asking the wrong question. You can attempt to rap or sing anything both ways. However, making it work is entirely another issue. The differences are not artificial and that's why one is called singing and the other rapping. In rapping the emphasis is on the words and in singing it is on the voice of the singer and music

That is entirely dependent on both the singer/band and the listener. I find the words very important in some songs, almost irrelevant in others.

My point, however, is that I can see no reason that rap lyrics are more poetry than traditionally sung lyrics, or even what their being more poetry means. In both cases they are poetry, the difference is in the presentation. If you write the words to a rap song, you will be writing a poem. If you write the words to a traditionally sung song, you will be writing a poem.

I highlighted something profound in your post. The words in rap are very relevant. There is nothing else holding up the rap song except the words. Its the same with poetry. You have to have words and they have to have meaning. I disagree that song lyrics are always poetry. I've never heard a rap song that wasn't poetry. However that might hinge on what you and I think poetry consists of.

I think a lot of songs, rap or traditionally sung, are BAD poetry, but poetry nonetheless.

Oh, and I imagine there are people who enjoy various rap songs for the music, the tone of voice, etc. and not the content of the lyrics. It may be more common for singing than rapping, but I don't think it's necessary for someone to focus on rap's lyrics. For example, I can go listen to some RunDMC I remember from my youth and not even catch half the lyrics. Does that mean I can't enjoy the songs?

 

[daws101]

I think we can all agree on one thing. Rap is for people who can't sing.

like with everything else you've said on this thread, that would be wrong.

Yeah, then why don't they sing?

lol it's called style something you know nothing about. obviously...
could somebody open a window the willful ignorance is thick in here...

 

[Montrovant]

I think we can all agree on one thing. Rap is for people who can't sing.

like with everything else you've said on this thread, that would be wrong.

Wrong, but it WAS funny.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

'Thug music' is just that. It appeals to the lowest form of human being. Is it any wonder why the entire Black race across the globe is abhorred?
If it's not stealing your Grandma's pension money or fucking your 11 year old cousin or sucker-punching a little old White woman b/c "you're bored" life isn't 'fun'. The other races in the world are very fast reaching the point where it's time to stop this sub-human behavior. Once it starts there will be a global war against those you are apparently genetically not capable of living in a civilized peaceful world. It will never end until every man woman and child can walk on any street safely anywhere on the planet at any time day or night.

And another ignorant, hateful racist chimes in.

 

[Asclepias]

That is entirely dependent on both the singer/band and the listener. I find the words very important in some songs, almost irrelevant in others.

My point, however, is that I can see no reason that rap lyrics are more poetry than traditionally sung lyrics, or even what their being more poetry means. In both cases they are poetry, the difference is in the presentation. If you write the words to a rap song, you will be writing a poem. If you write the words to a traditionally sung song, you will be writing a poem.

I highlighted something profound in your post. The words in rap are very relevant. There is nothing else holding up the rap song except the words. Its the same with poetry. You have to have words and they have to have meaning. I disagree that song lyrics are always poetry. I've never heard a rap song that wasn't poetry. However that might hinge on what you and I think poetry consists of.

I think a lot of songs, rap or traditionally sung, are BAD poetry, but poetry nonetheless.

Oh, and I imagine there are people who enjoy various rap songs for the music, the tone of voice, etc. and not the content of the lyrics. It may be more common for singing than rapping, but I don't think it's necessary for someone to focus on rap's lyrics. For example, I can go listen to some RunDMC I remember from my youth and not even catch half the lyrics. Does that mean I can't enjoy the songs?

From your post it sound more to me like you dont know what rap music really is. I never had any problem catching any lyrics in rap. I don't consider bad poetry to be poetry. i call that attempted poetry. Just like bad rap is attempted rap or bad singing is attempted singing. I agree that you can just listen to a beat but then thats really all it is and cannot be considered rap if thats all you get out of it.

 

[Montrovant]

I highlighted something profound in your post. The words in rap are very relevant. There is nothing else holding up the rap song except the words. Its the same with poetry. You have to have words and they have to have meaning. I disagree that song lyrics are always poetry. I've never heard a rap song that wasn't poetry. However that might hinge on what you and I think poetry consists of.

I think a lot of songs, rap or traditionally sung, are BAD poetry, but poetry nonetheless.

Oh, and I imagine there are people who enjoy various rap songs for the music, the tone of voice, etc. and not the content of the lyrics. It may be more common for singing than rapping, but I don't think it's necessary for someone to focus on rap's lyrics. For example, I can go listen to some RunDMC I remember from my youth and not even catch half the lyrics. Does that mean I can't enjoy the songs?

From your post it sound more to me like you dont know what rap music really is. I never had any problem catching any lyrics in rap. I don't consider bad poetry to be poetry. i call that attempted poetry. Just like bad rap is attempted rap or bad singing is attempted singing. I agree that you can just listen to a beat but then thats really all it is and cannot be considered rap if thats all you get out of it.

Well if you are going to have a discussion but use your own personal definitions for things, it's probably best if you lead with that.