I was wrong... the health of the mother is not valid for an abortion.

[Coyote]

The law does not establish a date it simply says a fetus can be aborted. Show me specific language that changes the "fetus" to non "fetus" status in Illinois.

Not my job - YOU are the one that brought up Illinois. I'm guessing you think that bill is the ONLY law on abortion in Illinois.

I'll help you out.

illinois-abortion-laws.html

 

[Coyote]

The simple fact remains that at 20 weeks a "fetus" is a viable baby. Not seven months.

20 weeks or a heartbeat, whichever comes first.

Still not viable.

 

[Asclepias]

Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions

No one cares what you think is valid or not. Heres a tip. Dont have an abortion. Maybe you have enough influence to change the law by setting the example but you damn sure dont have the influence necessary to determine if its valid for anyone but yourself.

 

[MarathonMike]

The simple fact remains that at 20 weeks a "fetus" is a viable baby. Not seven months.

20 weeks or a heartbeat, whichever comes first.

Still not viable.

How do you know?

 

[Coyote]

The simple fact remains that at 20 weeks a "fetus" is a viable baby. Not seven months.

20 weeks or a heartbeat, whichever comes first.

Still not viable.

How do you know?

Google it. I posted a link earlier in the thread. 24 weeks is the extreme limit.

 

[MarathonMike]

Are you a male or female, I bet a male.

I was originally ok with abortions in case of mother's health, rape or incest, based on the statistics, the murder of a person
that was NOT going to affect a woman's health is wrong.
Then I find out that really DUMB women who already had a 2nd or 3rd abortion?
That is shear murder because the women couldn't say NO!
It was evidently OK for a few moments of pleasure to terminate an especially innocent baby.
That makes my sex irrelevant.
But what is more relevant is you approve of dumb women who have already had abortions? That is shear stupidity on theirs and your part!

To me a fertilized egg is not yet a human being, any more than a blueprint is a house. A baby at birth is a person and has the right to live. Somewhere between those two extremes is a line where abortions (except in very rare cases) should be banned. I'm not sure where that line is but it is our brains that make us different from any other animal, a heart is just not the same. Once that brain truly begins to function, that is a person. IMHO of course.

As I've heard, a baby isn't viable until the 7th month when a chemical is release into the lungs so they can expand upon birth. That's the line in my opinion. Third trimester is off limits. The baby can survive on its own and is viable.

7 months? So premature babies born at 6 months aren't "viable"? What is your definition of "viable"? Should premature babies be killed?

I'm not speaking of premature births. Don't be a fucking idiot on purpose. I"m speaking of purposefully removing the fetus from the womb in a procedure which is called abortion.

You fucking people are stupid. Seriously. You think that kind of response is going to even begin to fly? Wake the fuck up.

The simple fact remains that at 20 weeks a "fetus" is a viable baby. Not seven months.

20 weeks or a heartbeat, whichever comes first.

Still not viable.

How do you know?

Google it. I posted a link earlier in the thread. 24 weeks is the extreme limit.

I'll go with the heartbeat over Google.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions

No. That is likely 61 Million worthless shits NOT competing for our resources.

I give not 1 single rat fuck about saving another's worthless spawn. Most people aborting are unfit. Let natural selection (their stupid choices) take care of it.

.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The simple fact remains that at 20 weeks a "fetus" is a viable baby. Not seven months.

20 weeks or a heartbeat, whichever comes first.

Still not viable.

How do you know?

Google it. I posted a link earlier in the thread. 24 weeks is the extreme limit.

24 weeks is too short. Needs to be 144 weeks.

.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions

Are you a male or female, I bet a male.

I was originally ok with abortions in case of mother's health, rape or incest, based on the statistics, the murder of a person
that was NOT going to affect a woman's health is wrong.
Then I find out that really DUMB women who already had a 2nd or 3rd abortion?
That is shear murder because the women couldn't say NO!
It was evidently OK for a few moments of pleasure to terminate an especially innocent baby.
That makes my sex irrelevant.
But what is more relevant is you approve of dumb women who have already had abortions? That is shear stupidity on theirs and your part!

To me a fertilized egg is not yet a human being, any more than a blueprint is a house. A baby at birth is a person and has the right to live. Somewhere between those two extremes is a line where abortions (except in very rare cases) should be banned. I'm not sure where that line is but it is our brains that make us different from any other animal, a heart is just not the same. Once that brain truly begins to function, that is a person. IMHO of course.

Only problem with that is a blueprint will never be a house. But a fertilized egg will be a child in as little as 6 months.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions

Never too late to take the red pill.

Welcome to reality!

It’s a little weird, but the truth shall set you free!

I am happy for you.

 

[Lysistrata]

Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions

That abortion has become such a big issue is due only to the hatred of women and the perception of us as some kind of lower farm animal meant only for sex and breeding, that must be controlled. Meanwhile the country is full of sophisticated weaponry and hatred, with the people responsible for creating a climate of fear, loathing, racism, misogyny, homophobia, refusal to help anyone in need, wanting people to die in the desert of dehydration, as they themselves kiss their guns and bless mass shootings, screaming "baby killers," "murder most foul!" "whores and sluts," "God haters!" if a zygote or fetus with no developed brain or other necessary organs is aborted.

Look at the language in this article about women not being "responsible enough" and there being no "excuse" for people having more than one abortion, even if the 46% figure were true, which I doubt seriously. It grows out of an outright hatred of female sexuality and a sick desire to control it and punish it with the threat of unwanted pregnancy for the "immoral" woman (men are never "immoral," no matter what they do).

Look at the hatred directed at Planned Parenthood, which has done more to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and, thus, abortions, than any other organization or institution. If PP (a non-profit) was part of some "abortion industry" that "exploits women," why would it provide so many people with birth control, thereby taking profits away from the "industry"? How does the availability of abortion "exploit women," anyway? PP doesn't grab people off the street; they come to PP on their own, like most of the residents of my dorm, decades ago when I was as student at a religiously-run university. They, and their boyfriends and sometimes future husbands, managed to graduate without a hitch.

The anti-abortion movement is a misogynist hoax and a dirty movement. I'm not used to using the word "fucking," I'm too old for this to be comfortable, but now that our language is more free, I will use it. The anti-abortion movement is aimed at punishing women for fucking unless they are being fucked by their master who controls the vagina in question and controls the fucking. The anti-abortion movement is aimed at punishing women who conduct their sex lives according to their own decisions, which men have been doing all along.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The simple fact remains that at 20 weeks a "fetus" is a viable baby. Not seven months.

20 weeks or a heartbeat, whichever comes first.

Still not viable.

24 weeks then there should NEVER be an abortion after that except for the health of the mother and it needs to be attested to by a NON abortion doctor as being in threat.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

That abortion has become such a big issue is due only to the hatred of women and the perception of us as some kind of lower farm animal meant only for sex and breeding, that must be controlled.

Well, first, the mass dismemberment of babies should always have been an issue. Saying it's about a hated of women not only erroneously takes the dismembering of children out of the equation, but also is totally baseless. It's like if someone broke into another person's house, ripped a person limb from limb, stuffed them into the fridge, then when people react to this with hostility, you screech "REEEEE, YOU'RE NOT OKAY WITH THIS CUZ I'M A WOMAN!", how about you either stop being such a dishonest reprobate and/or start thinking critically instead of making baseless claims about your opposition?

Secondly, if you in any way support the existence of a state ruling over you, then you have no room at all to whine and complain about people wanting to control you, if that were even the issue here.

Meanwhile the country is full of sophisticated weaponry and hatred, with the people responsible for creating a climate of fear, loathing, racism, misogyny, homophobia, refusal to help anyone in need, wanting people to die in the desert of dehydration, as they themselves kiss their guns and bless mass shootings,

Oh, you're changing the subject entirely here. I guess you were just hoping that your post length would keep people from responding or get them lost in the weeds? Fine, I'm bored enough to play your childish game, old lady.

First, you have no place to complain about a climate of fear, while making statements about people "kissing their guns", or "blessing mass shootings", you're doing exactly that, and trying to use the attempted fear as an excuse to attempt to use the lying sociopaths who rule over you to steal other people's property just because you find it scary. Meanwhile, the state which you apparently see as omnipotent can only track guns which people allow them to, and strangely enough, people who intend to commit real crimes don't want them to. All stealing people's guns through Government violence would do is create more victims. Oh, and those Road Pirates in blue that are supposed to be protecting you are under no obligation to do so, while being held to a ticket quota, so their job is to steal from you, not protect you.
Warren v. District of Columbia - Wikipedia Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales - Wikipedia DeShaney v. Winnebago County - Wikipedia Maksim Gelman stabbing spree - Wikipedia
The Government admits it in these court cases here that you won't bother reading.

So, yeah, stealing people's guns, which are property by the way, not only won't solve mass shootings, but would actually make them more frequent. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that the theft of property is completely unethical, not that people like you give a single solitary damn about ethics.

screaming "baby killers," "murder most foul!" "whores and sluts," "God haters!" if a zygote or fetus with no developed brain or other necessary organs is aborted.

Well, first, a brain isn't what makes someone human, that's a completely arbitrary standard that you're attempting to impose, despite knowing full well that it's dishonest to do so. The child is a human at every stage of life. Don't believe me? What species is it?

Now that its species being human is established, you can stop attempting to dehumanize it by calling it a "zygote" or "fetus". The second thing is "necessary organs". Now claiming that it needs those organs for it not to be totally cool to murder it in cold blood is pretty arbitrary, too, since specific organs ALSO aren't what makes it human, and saying "WELL, IT CAN'T SURVIVE OUTSIDE THE BODY YET" is pretty meaningless as an argument. That's like me saying that if I launched you through the atmosphere, you wouldn't survive in the vacuum of space, so it's totally cool to dismember you. Yeah, no, murder doesn't work that way. The moment you intentionally stick something or someone into an environment in which you know it would die, you've just killed that person or thing. In the case of people, yes, that is murder.

Now, with those completely arbitrary standards out of the way, you did heavily imply earlier that it's about autonomy. Nobody denies a person autonomy over their body, except the Government. All of the legislative fiat, regulation or otherwise, denies people their autonomy, but I'm sure you have no problem with those. You can't support regulations, but be against the dismemberment of babies being illegal, that's not logically consistent. Ignoring that, though, nothing gives a person dominion over the autonomy of another self-owning agent, which the child is, since it's a completely separate and unique DNA sequence. Yeah, no, it's not your body, and it never has been. The "it's my body, it's my choice!" argument is arguing against something nobody ever asserted and completely ignores the issue being raised.

Look at the language in this article about women not being "responsible enough" and there being no "excuse" for people having more than one abortion, even if the 46% figure were true, which I doubt seriously. It grows out of an outright hatred of female sexuality and a sick desire to control it and punish it with the threat of unwanted pregnancy for the "immoral" woman (men are never "immoral," no matter what they do).

Not wanting you to dismember a child has nothing to do with your sexual activity, the child is something a person imposes on themselves by being careless. Secondly, any number of child dismemberment is not okay, so I don't really care about the "more than one" figure.

Oh, and nobody cares about what you do in your off time. You're WELL past that age, but go be a prostitute for all I care. Just don't dismember children as a result of that, it's unethical.

Look at the hatred directed at Planned Parenthood, which has done more to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and, thus, abortions, than any other organization or institution. If PP (a non-profit) was part of some "abortion industry" that "exploits women," why would it provide so many people with birth control, thereby taking profits away from the "industry"? How does the availability of abortion "exploit women," anyway? PP doesn't grab people off the street; they come to PP on their own, like most of the residents of my dorm, decades ago when I was as student at a religiously-run university. They, and their boyfriends and sometimes future husbands, managed to graduate without a hitch.

Planned parenthood is given stolen money by the Government on the regular, and is a part of the whole child dismembering thing, there's plenty of reason to hate it. That's like being totally confused that someone's angry that you've stolen their money to buy a grenade, then used that grenade to blow up a preschool.

The anti-abortion movement is a misogynist hoax and a dirty movement. I'm not used to using the word "fucking," I'm too old for this to be comfortable, but now that our language is more free, I will use it. The anti-abortion movement is aimed at punishing women for fucking unless they are being fucked by their master who controls the vagina in question and controls the fucking. The anti-abortion movement is aimed at punishing women who conduct their sex lives according to their own decisions, which men have been doing all along.

"Anti-Abortion" is pretty weak, I prefer being called "Anti-Murder", at least using that term would alert people to the fact that you don't care that children are being dismembered, instead of putting up this facade in which you pretend not to know how sadistic you are.

Oh, and that whole "punishing women for lewds" thing completely ignores that protection exists. I guess while you were worrying about the prospect of OTHER people not being able to dismember children, since you're WAY beyond that age, you forgot that protection exists and people generally only end up pregnant by using it wrong or forgetting it. Oops.

One more thing; The child in question that you're wanting dismembered is not a vagina, that's not how anatomy works. I just figured I'd let you know since you seem really confused.

 

[Chuz Life]

To me a fertilized egg is not yet a human being, any more than a blueprint is a house. A baby at birth is a person and has the right to live. Somewhere between those two extremes is a line where abortions (except in very rare cases) should be banned. I'm not sure where that line is but it is our brains that make us different from any other animal, a heart is just not the same. Once that brain truly begins to function, that is a person. IMHO of course.

Many of us (Myself included) are not going to let your ignorance of biological facts go unchallenged.

 

[Chuz Life]

the scope of the discussion is when is it moral to murder an innocent child,,,

I leave morals out of it.

The Constitution is the law of the land.

Therefore the debate should be more about what abortions (if any) can be defended Constitutionally. Or not.

That's my take on it, anyway. I'm not butthurt about it when others disagree.

 

[Chuz Life]

If somebody has an abortion it’s none of your damn business. Worry about your own life and stay out of others.

Do you have that same attitude towards any of the other forms of child molestation?

 

[Gracie]

I have always been pro choice. But I used to be a democrat too, lol. I have not changed my stance on abortion....BUT...I call it murder now if they fetus is killed just prior to birth or after being born because "mom" decided she didn't want the hassle. This includes women that were raped. Common sense is...if you were raped, then you would automatically check yourself to make sure you don't wind up pregnant and do something way way WAY before it gets beyond the size of a kidney bean.

Yet, women are waiting much too long, then having it aborted. Planned parenthood was busted recently by being recorded as discussing the sale of fetus heads and hearts. For what purpose? I have no clue. What the fuck do they want with a fetus head???? One woman said fetuses can't scream when they are cut up...because their vocal cords are not developed enough yet, plus she makes sure they can't make noise by "snipping" that area. One woman said she was told to cut the face off the fetus head. Yes, the face. WTF is this shit??? What the fuck is wrong with people who could do such a thing and discuss it over lunch and worse, what kind of person would do that to the fetus when it is almost fully formed or already formed? That is just wrong on so many levels.

So....sure. Abort it. But do it when its the size of a pea. Otherwise, you are scum and a murderer.

Investigative Footage – The Center for Medical Progress

Abortionist: Babies can’t scream while I abort them because I cut their cords first

 

[Chuz Life]

QUESTION for all. . .

Does the Constitution say that

1. "all persons" have a right to their life and to the EQUAL protections of our laws?

Or,

2. does the Constitution say that only "VIABLE" persons have those rights?

How many leftards will answer honestly?

HINT: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person (citizen or not) of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."-14th Amendment

 

[Chuz Life]

BUMP.

Can someone please answer the question?

 

[there4eyeM]

All persons born...
As this is, by definition, a situation only women face, it is only logical that the woman decide.
Any militant opposition to women having choice about the issue should concern itself with attempting to educate about a view, not seek to impose it with repression and law.