If Gays Are Allowed to Target and Discriminate Against Christian Businesses. . . .

[Rustic]

Because in your world, religious people don't have freedoms, right? Since you probably dont believe the way they do, you feel they shouldn't have any protections under the law.

That is a gross misrepresentation of what I believe . I do indeed believe that religious beliefs and practices should have protection. However I do not believe that religion should be used as a weapon against those that the so called Christians like you disapprove of for political purposes

Lol, most people call me a conservative...I'm not, I'm more of a constitutionalist and I can understand how some would call me a Christian, after reading my posts here. Let's say that im still in the category of trying to figure out where my faith stands.

My point in this thread is that, in this instance, you can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's. The Baker felt lending his creativeness to the occasion would have been a contradiction to his faith. It was a religious observance, not discrimination. The Baker offered to sell them any cake already prepared, but he wouldn't, in his estimation, be a part of the event by making a product especially for the event.

You can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's? That is only true if you consider discrimination in the name of religious freedom a "liberty" Your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins.

Frivolous gun control laws trample all over peoples rights...

You mean the right to get shot with an assault weapon legally purchased by a known schizophrenic while peacefully attending a concert.?

AR15s are not assault rifles, they are just sporting rifles...

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

That is a gross misrepresentation of what I believe . I do indeed believe that religious beliefs and practices should have protection. However I do not believe that religion should be used as a weapon against those that the so called Christians like you disapprove of for political purposes

Lol, most people call me a conservative...I'm not, I'm more of a constitutionalist and I can understand how some would call me a Christian, after reading my posts here. Let's say that im still in the category of trying to figure out where my faith stands.

My point in this thread is that, in this instance, you can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's. The Baker felt lending his creativeness to the occasion would have been a contradiction to his faith. It was a religious observance, not discrimination. The Baker offered to sell them any cake already prepared, but he wouldn't, in his estimation, be a part of the event by making a product especially for the event.

You can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's? That is only true if you consider discrimination in the name of religious freedom a "liberty" Your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins.

Frivolous gun control laws trample all over peoples rights...

You mean the right to get shot with an assault weapon legally purchased by a known schizophrenic while peacefully attending a concert.?

AR15s are not assault rifles, they are just sporting rifles...

And get on topic

 

[Rustic]

Lol, most people call me a conservative...I'm not, I'm more of a constitutionalist and I can understand how some would call me a Christian, after reading my posts here. Let's say that im still in the category of trying to figure out where my faith stands.

My point in this thread is that, in this instance, you can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's. The Baker felt lending his creativeness to the occasion would have been a contradiction to his faith. It was a religious observance, not discrimination. The Baker offered to sell them any cake already prepared, but he wouldn't, in his estimation, be a part of the event by making a product especially for the event.

You can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's? That is only true if you consider discrimination in the name of religious freedom a "liberty" Your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins.

Frivolous gun control laws trample all over peoples rights...

You mean the right to get shot with an assault weapon legally purchased by a known schizophrenic while peacefully attending a concert.?

AR15s are not assault rifles, they are just sporting rifles...

View attachment 200368

And get on topic

 

[Slyhunter]

Ok then, so then we can have gay owned businesses making cakes with anti gay Bible verses, Muslim butchers processing pork products

Do you have any idea how stupid that is? I'm sure that you don't . The gay guys who wanted a cake just wanted a fucking cake. They did not ask for any pro gay message on it.

But the Muslim butcher is the epitome of idiocy. Muslim butchers do not provide pork to anyone so it is not discrimination . That is like saying that a sushi restaurant could be sued for not serving Italian food. Is it remotely possible that you are so fucking out to lunch that you can't understand that?

Bullshit, the baker said he would've sold them a cake. He's sell anyone a cake. He just wouldn't decorate it to their instructions.

Christian baker being sued over refusal to make Bert and Ernie-themed gay marriage cake says she 'knew in her heart' she couldn't complete the order

• The owner of a Christian bakery refused to make a pro-gay marriage cake

• He refused to make a gay cake, he did not refuse to sell a gay a cake.

Really? What exactly were their instructions?

He said, on Fox, that he would sell a cake to anyone who wants to buy it, but he's not going to design a cake for a gay wedding.

What was the design and how does it impinge on his religious freedom?

It doesn't matter, if it goes against his artistic integrity that is good enough for me. For me it isn't about religious freedom it's about freedom period. I'm Agnostic.
You know very well they don't detail what they homos wanted on their cake. I just know the baker said they could buy a cake, he just wouldn't decorate it for them special for their wedding.

 

[Slyhunter]

Not talking about a butcher who runs a meat market, in taking about a butcher that processes animals for people who bring them in. Under your stance, if I bring in 20 hogs and 50 live lobsters, they must process them for me.

No quite true.

If the business does not "process" hogs or lobsters for ANYONE, then there is not issue. However if the shop processed hogs for black people but refuse to provide the same service to white people, they would be in violation of the law.

If a baker doesn't sell wedding cakes to anyone, they are not inviolation of the law. However if they sell wedding cakes to white people but refuse to sell them to an interracial couple because of race, they would be in violation of the law.


Public Accommodation laws do not mandate what goods and services must be supplied, only that if the shop owner doe include them in their business model that goods and services can't be refused based on certain characteristics of the customer.



.>>>>

But can they make him put an interracial couple on the cake as decoration?

 

[Slyhunter]

The gay couple were served. The baker was not willing to do what they wanted. Big difference.

No they weren't, the couple was refused service when they went for an appointment to order a wedding cake. There was never any discussion of design.


.>>>>

The baker said they could buy a cake. He just wouldn't design one for them.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The gay couple were served. The baker was not willing to do what they wanted. Big difference.

No they weren't, the couple was refused service when they went for an appointment to order a wedding cake. There was never any discussion of design.


.>>>>

The baker said they could buy a cake. He just wouldn't design one for them.

"The Baker" needs to grow the fuck up and learn that he can't have everything his way all of the time. He needs to learn that other people have feelings and that it is not all about him. Most of all he, and the rest of you need to understand the real and true meaning of religious freedom. Hint- it is not about what other do and how they live.

Bottom line- he refused service based on sexual orientation. Fuck him.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The baker said they could buy a cake. He just wouldn't design one for them.

Not quite true, he wouldn't have sold them a wedding cake from his already designed catalog either.


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

But can they make him put an interracial couple on the cake as decoration?

Don't know. There was never any discussion about design. The baker refused as soon as he learned it was a gay couple (or same-sex couple if you want to be more exact).

You do know that many wedding cake designs (even from his own website) don't have old fashioned topper figurines right?


.>>>>

 

[ThisIsMe]

Ok then, so then we can have gay owned businesses making cakes with anti gay Bible verses, Muslim butchers processing pork products

Do you have any idea how stupid that is? I'm sure that you don't . The gay guys who wanted a cake just wanted a fucking cake. They did not ask for any pro gay message on it.

But the Muslim butcher is the epitome of idiocy. Muslim butchers do not provide pork to anyone so it is not discrimination . That is like saying that a sushi restaurant could be sued for not serving Italian food. Is it remotely possible that you are so fucking out to lunch that you can't understand that?

Not talking about a butcher who runs a meat market, in taking about a butcher that processes animals for people who bring them in. Under your stance, if I bring in 20 hogs and 50 live lobsters, they must process them for me.

Bullshit! Same stupidity, different day. You're just trying to dig your way out of the hole that you dug for yourself. Not working. It's the same thing.

I'm not in a hole. Just trying to figure out how it's not a similar situation. Christian Baker is wrong, but Muslim meat processing ok?

 

[ThisIsMe]

Because in your world, religious people don't have freedoms, right? Since you probably dont believe the way they do, you feel they shouldn't have any protections under the law.

That is a gross misrepresentation of what I believe . I do indeed believe that religious beliefs and practices should have protection. However I do not believe that religion should be used as a weapon against those that the so called Christians like you disapprove of for political purposes

Lol, most people call me a conservative...I'm not, I'm more of a constitutionalist and I can understand how some would call me a Christian, after reading my posts here. Let's say that im still in the category of trying to figure out where my faith stands.

My point in this thread is that, in this instance, you can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's. The Baker felt lending his creativeness to the occasion would have been a contradiction to his faith. It was a religious observance, not discrimination. The Baker offered to sell them any cake already prepared, but he wouldn't, in his estimation, be a part of the event by making a product especially for the event.

You can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's? That is only true if you consider discrimination in the name of religious freedom a "liberty" Your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins.

But it wasn't discrimination. It was a religious observance. He didn't say he wasnt going to make the cake because he doesn't like gays, he said he didn't want to because it was against his beliefs. Theres a difference.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Ok then, so then we can have gay owned businesses making cakes with anti gay Bible verses, Muslim butchers processing pork products

Do you have any idea how stupid that is? I'm sure that you don't . The gay guys who wanted a cake just wanted a fucking cake. They did not ask for any pro gay message on it.

But the Muslim butcher is the epitome of idiocy. Muslim butchers do not provide pork to anyone so it is not discrimination . That is like saying that a sushi restaurant could be sued for not serving Italian food. Is it remotely possible that you are so fucking out to lunch that you can't understand that?

Bullshit, the baker said he would've sold them a cake. He's sell anyone a cake. He just wouldn't decorate it to their instructions.

Christian baker being sued over refusal to make Bert and Ernie-themed gay marriage cake says she 'knew in her heart' she couldn't complete the order

• The owner of a Christian bakery refused to make a pro-gay marriage cake

• He refused to make a gay cake, he did not refuse to sell a gay a cake.

Really? What exactly were their instructions?

He said, on Fox, that he would sell a cake to anyone who wants to buy it, but he's not going to design a cake for a gay wedding.

What was the design and how does it impinge on his religious freedom?

Doesn't matter what the design was. Could have been a plain sheet cake. The point is, he felt he was participating in the ceremony by using his creative skills in support of the event.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Ok then, so then we can have gay owned businesses making cakes with anti gay Bible verses, Muslim butchers processing pork products

Do you have any idea how stupid that is? I'm sure that you don't . The gay guys who wanted a cake just wanted a fucking cake. They did not ask for any pro gay message on it.

But the Muslim butcher is the epitome of idiocy. Muslim butchers do not provide pork to anyone so it is not discrimination . That is like saying that a sushi restaurant could be sued for not serving Italian food. Is it remotely possible that you are so fucking out to lunch that you can't understand that?

Not talking about a butcher who runs a meat market, in taking about a butcher that processes animals for people who bring them in. Under your stance, if I bring in 20 hogs and 50 live lobsters, they must process them for me.

Bullshit! Same stupidity, different day. You're just trying to dig your way out of the hole that you dug for yourself. Not working. It's the same thing.

I'm not in a hole. Just trying to figure out how it's not a similar situation. Christian Baker is wrong, but Muslim meat processing ok?

If you can't figure out why it's idiotic. After I explained why it's idiotic. YOU are an idiot.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Do you have any idea how stupid that is? I'm sure that you don't . The gay guys who wanted a cake just wanted a fucking cake. They did not ask for any pro gay message on it.

But the Muslim butcher is the epitome of idiocy. Muslim butchers do not provide pork to anyone so it is not discrimination . That is like saying that a sushi restaurant could be sued for not serving Italian food. Is it remotely possible that you are so fucking out to lunch that you can't understand that?

Bullshit, the baker said he would've sold them a cake. He's sell anyone a cake. He just wouldn't decorate it to their instructions.

Christian baker being sued over refusal to make Bert and Ernie-themed gay marriage cake says she 'knew in her heart' she couldn't complete the order

• The owner of a Christian bakery refused to make a pro-gay marriage cake

• He refused to make a gay cake, he did not refuse to sell a gay a cake.

Really? What exactly were their instructions?

He said, on Fox, that he would sell a cake to anyone who wants to buy it, but he's not going to design a cake for a gay wedding.

What was the design and how does it impinge on his religious freedom?

Doesn't matter what the design was. Could have been a plain sheet cake. The point is, he felt he was participating in the ceremony by using his creative skills in support of the event.

Too damned bad. he refused services in a place of public accommodation

 

[ThisIsMe]

Not talking about a butcher who runs a meat market, in taking about a butcher that processes animals for people who bring them in. Under your stance, if I bring in 20 hogs and 50 live lobsters, they must process them for me.

No quite true.

If the business does not "process" hogs or lobsters for ANYONE, then there is not issue. However if the shop processed hogs for black people but refuse to provide the same service to white people, they would be in violation of the law.

If a baker doesn't sell wedding cakes to anyone, they are not inviolation of the law. However if they sell wedding cakes to white people but refuse to sell them to an interracial couple because of race, they would be in violation of the law.


Public Accommodation laws do not mandate what goods and services must be supplied, only that if the shop owner doe include them in their business model that goods and services can't be refused based on certain characteristics of the customer.



.>>>>

You're right, and the public accomodation law is wrong because it infringes on religious freedom (which is NOT discrimination because the reasons were based on his religious beliefs, not personal beliefs)

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Because in your world, religious people don't have freedoms, right? Since you probably dont believe the way they do, you feel they shouldn't have any protections under the law.

That is a gross misrepresentation of what I believe . I do indeed believe that religious beliefs and practices should have protection. However I do not believe that religion should be used as a weapon against those that the so called Christians like you disapprove of for political purposes

Lol, most people call me a conservative...I'm not, I'm more of a constitutionalist and I can understand how some would call me a Christian, after reading my posts here. Let's say that im still in the category of trying to figure out where my faith stands.

My point in this thread is that, in this instance, you can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's. The Baker felt lending his creativeness to the occasion would have been a contradiction to his faith. It was a religious observance, not discrimination. The Baker offered to sell them any cake already prepared, but he wouldn't, in his estimation, be a part of the event by making a product especially for the event.

You can't protect one person's liberties without trampling on someone else's? That is only true if you consider discrimination in the name of religious freedom a "liberty" Your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins.

But it wasn't discrimination. It was a religious observance. He didn't say he wasnt going to make the cake because he doesn't like gays, he said he didn't want to because it was against his beliefs. Theres a difference.

He didn't bake the cake BECAUSE they are gay. It doesn't matter whether he " likes " them or not. It is still discrimination. You can repeat bullshit as many times as you can without turning blue but it is still BULLSHIT

 

[ThisIsMe]

Not talking about a butcher who runs a meat market, in taking about a butcher that processes animals for people who bring them in. Under your stance, if I bring in 20 hogs and 50 live lobsters, they must process them for me.

No quite true.

If the business does not "process" hogs or lobsters for ANYONE, then there is not issue. However if the shop processed hogs for black people but refuse to provide the same service to white people, they would be in violation of the law.

If a baker doesn't sell wedding cakes to anyone, they are not inviolation of the law. However if they sell wedding cakes to white people but refuse to sell them to an interracial couple because of race, they would be in violation of the law.


Public Accommodation laws do not mandate what goods and services must be supplied, only that if the shop owner doe include them in their business model that goods and services can't be refused based on certain characteristics of the customer.



.>>>>

Ok, you're right, but her is a bad example.

How about this, I go to a Muslim baker and ask him to bake me a cake that states there is only one God, the God of Abraham.

There, that satisfies the situation almost verbatim.

 

[kaz]

Not talking about a butcher who runs a meat market, in taking about a butcher that processes animals for people who bring them in. Under your stance, if I bring in 20 hogs and 50 live lobsters, they must process them for me.

No quite true.

If the business does not "process" hogs or lobsters for ANYONE, then there is not issue. However if the shop processed hogs for black people but refuse to provide the same service to white people, they would be in violation of the law.

If a baker doesn't sell wedding cakes to anyone, they are not inviolation of the law. However if they sell wedding cakes to white people but refuse to sell them to an interracial couple because of race, they would be in violation of the law.


Public Accommodation laws do not mandate what goods and services must be supplied, only that if the shop owner doe include them in their business model that goods and services can't be refused based on certain characteristics of the customer.



.>>>>

Ok, you're right, but her is a bad example.

How about this, I go to a Muslim baker and ask him to bake me a cake that states there is only one God, the God of Abraham.

There, that satisfies the situation almost verbatim.

I understand what you're trying to say, but your knowledge of religions is kind of sad.

Just so you know, Islam recognizes Abraham as a prophet

 

[ThisIsMe]

The gay couple were served. The baker was not willing to do what they wanted. Big difference.

No they weren't, the couple was refused service when they went for an appointment to order a wedding cake. There was never any discussion of design.


.>>>>

The baker said they could buy a cake. He just wouldn't design one for them.

"The Baker" needs to grow the fuck up and learn that he can't have everything his way all of the time. He needs to learn that other people have feelings and that it is not all about him. Most of all he, and the rest of you need to understand the real and true meaning of religious freedom. Hint- it is not about what other do and how they live.

Bottom line- he refused service based on sexual orientation. Fuck him.

You almost got this statement correct. All you need to do is remove the word "baker" and replace it with "gay couple", and you are there!

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Not talking about a butcher who runs a meat market, in taking about a butcher that processes animals for people who bring them in. Under your stance, if I bring in 20 hogs and 50 live lobsters, they must process them for me.

No quite true.

If the business does not "process" hogs or lobsters for ANYONE, then there is not issue. However if the shop processed hogs for black people but refuse to provide the same service to white people, they would be in violation of the law.

If a baker doesn't sell wedding cakes to anyone, they are not inviolation of the law. However if they sell wedding cakes to white people but refuse to sell them to an interracial couple because of race, they would be in violation of the law.


Public Accommodation laws do not mandate what goods and services must be supplied, only that if the shop owner doe include them in their business model that goods and services can't be refused based on certain characteristics of the customer.



.>>>>

Ok, you're right, but her is a bad example.

How about this, I go to a Muslim baker and ask him to bake me a cake that states there is only one God, the God of Abraham.

There, that satisfies the situation almost verbatim.

I'm not really into religion but I think that Islam is one of the religions of Abraham

An Abrahamic religion is a religion whose followers believe in prophet Abraham and his descendants to hold an important role in human spiritual development. The best known Abrahamic religions are Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
Abrahamic religion - Simple English Wikipedia, the free ...
simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religion