If Hobby Lobby wins...

[Avatar4321]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

All of that is true too but more to the point of the religious leanings; what if you get divorced and the owner decides that it is anti-Christian to get divorced? If you exercise your right to terminate a pregnancy...is that grounds for dismissal? If you have side-effects from the procedure, can they argue they shouldn't have to pay your medical bills through insurance or sick time?

It's why they'll lose. No way the three female justices opens this door in my view.

Except this case isnt about an employer forcing an employee to do something. It's about the government forcing an employer to do something. The fact that your employer doesn't pay for your contraceptive does not at all impede your ability to get contraceptive. The fact that an employer doesn't pay for your abortion doesn't stop you from obtaining an abortion.

You really think employers go around asking their employees whether they use contraception or not? do you really think they care? Do you really think they could prevent anyone if they could? How do you think they are going to prove an employee is using contraception?

This is why you guys will lose. You can't even be honest with yourselves about what the issues are. You have to pretend it's some other issue. You win an argument when you don't understand it to begin with.

 

[Avatar4321]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

New York is already trying to control your diet - like restricting the selling of large sodas.

And it was progressives who did that one.

 

[Redfish]

They are not party to it.

That's the point.

Are they party to the sins adulterers if they allow adulterers to work for them?

Are they party to homosexual sins if a gay couple comes in to buy stuff for their home?

What if a gay adulterer comes in to buy a gift for his or her bisexual lover who is also cheating on his or her spouse who happens to be an employee?

That must be especially sinful

They would be party to the sins if they bought the hotel room for the affair.

But they are not. Nor are they buying anything the insurance policy covers.

Employees also pay for part of their insurance so it can be argues that the employees are paying for the "sinful" coverage.

so if the employee is paying 30% of the cost, she only gets to abort 30% of her unborn child? are you really as stupid as your last few posts?

 

[RKMBrown]

NO one at Hobby Lobby wants to ban all BC from being covered by their insurance. Their only issue is that they do not want to pay for abortion causing drugs.

you should not discuss something you know nothing about.

Abortion can be covered under insurance as well. so it can't be just the morning after pill now can it?

They do not want to buy insurance for their employees that covers abortions of any kind---physical or chemical.

The are willing to have the insurance cover all kinds or birth control, but not baby killing. why is that so hard for you libs to comprehend?

Cause the libs goal is to despoil everything they touch. Forcing innocents to participate in sin gives libs orgasmic relief. That and Satan approves.

 

[Spiderman]

Well in that case since I think gay marriage is stupid it should not be allowed. Right?

Maybe you can explain to me how someone uses the excuse that the actions of another person makes it a sin on your part.

If you bake a cake for 2 gay people how are you committing a sin?

If you provide insurance and someone uses that insurance to buy birth control how are you committing a sin?

And if serving people who sin or employing people who sin is a sin in itself then prove to me that you never sin and you live your life 100% in accordance with whatever religious text you claim to be the word of god then maybe I'll believe your religious excuse to be valid.

I am not for anyone being forced to buy insurance but I still do not see how the actions third party constitute a personal sin

No one has refused to bake a cake for gay people. They have refused to bake a wedding cake that would carry the message that the baker approves of gay marriage.

No one has refused to provide insurance that covers birth control. Birth control is covered. Abortion is not.

No one cares who is committing a sin, as long as they aren't forced into committing that sin personally.

So if the baker bakes a cake for a child born out of wedlock is he not sending a message that he approves of adultery?

What if he baked a cake for a murderer who just got out of prison is he sending a message that he believes killing is OK?

The whole argument falls apart when you apply it across the board.

 

[Avatar4321]

Ok, if you want to split hairs then technically they're merely asking them to go work for someone else if they want insurance that covers contraception.

Utterly false.

Hobby Lobby insurance covers contraception, including the pill and Norplant.

They simply have declined to pay for abortions and the use of abortificants.

How would they even know if one of their employees had an abortion?

Clearly they have private investigators stationed at every abortion clinic in the nation monitoring if one of their employees comes for an abortion. Then they have those investigators investigated to ensure they don't either.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I think Obamacare is absurd, and the absurdity is only outweighed the intolerant "Christian" RW, but consider for a moment that the Dems are getting killed. But, contraceptive coverage is an issue for a large % of female voters. I swear on the body of the Christos, these folks are conservatism's worst enemy.

NO one at Hobby Lobby wants to ban all BC from being covered by their insurance. Their only issue is that they do not want to pay for abortion causing drugs.

you should not discuss something you know nothing about.

I say it again, its not about abortion causing drugs its about what they BELIEVE are abortion causing drugs IN SPITE OF FACTS that say they are not.

Basically we have to all play along that their imagination is reality. If thats fine then there really is no rules. Anyone can call anything ANYTHING (as long as they are an employer)

 

[Spiderman]

They would be party to the sins if they bought the hotel room for the affair.

But they are not. Nor are they buying anything the insurance policy covers.

Employees also pay for part of their insurance so it can be argues that the employees are paying for the "sinful" coverage.

so if the employee is paying 30% of the cost, she only gets to abort 30% of her unborn child? are you really as stupid as your last few posts?

No all you have to do is see what part of the insurance that covers the sins costs and apply the total employee contribution to that part.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Trying to rationalize with these sycophants is pointless, I'm out of here.

 

[pioneerpete]

They are not party to it.

That's the point.

Are they party to the sins adulterers if they allow adulterers to work for them?

Are they party to homosexual sins if a gay couple comes in to buy stuff for their home?

What if a gay adulterer comes in to buy a gift for his or her bisexual lover who is also cheating on his or her spouse who happens to be an employee?

That must be especially sinful

They would be party to the sins if they bought the hotel room for the affair.

But they are not. Nor are they buying anything the insurance policy covers.

Employees also pay for part of their insurance so it can be argues that the employees are paying for the "sinful" coverage.

Is that not the purpose of the case? To decide whether they have to provide "the hotel room"? If someone asks me for $100 to pay for $200 worth of something wouldn't I be a contributor?

 

[Edgetho]

I think Obamacare is absurd, and the absurdity is only outweighed the intolerant "Christian" RW, but consider for a moment that the Dems are getting killed. But, contraceptive coverage is an issue for a large % of female voters. I swear on the body of the Christos, these folks are conservatism's worst enemy.

NO one at Hobby Lobby wants to ban all BC from being covered by their insurance. Their only issue is that they do not want to pay for abortion causing drugs.

you should not discuss something you know nothing about.

I say it again, its not about abortion causing drugs its about what they BELIEVE are abortion causing drugs IN SPITE OF FACTS that say they are not.

Basically we have to all play along that their imagination is reality. If thats fine then there really is no rules. Anyone can call anything ANYTHING (as long as they are an employer)

You've said that at least five times.

You have yet to provide any evidence to back you up.

Methinks you're a lying dirtbag

 

[Spiderman]

Trying to rationalize with these sycophants is pointless, I'm out of here.

Hey I disagree with obamacare across the board. the "sin" argument just doesn't hold up.

 

[Avatar4321]

Lefties just can't stand the thought of someone having the FREEDOM to exercise CHOICE. Ironic huh?

Nothing Ironic about it. It's pretty much their goals to eliminate the choices of others.

Well no..do try to educate yourself

Well, if that's not your goal, you sure as heck do a good job accomplishing it.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Edge I've posted the evidence at least twice. Here you go again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/h...ion-science-suggests.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Based on the belief that a fertilized egg is a person, some religious groups and conservative politicians say disrupting a fertilized egg’s ability to attach to the uterus is abortion, “the moral equivalent of homicide,” as Dr. Donna Harrison, who directs research for the American Association of Pro-life Obstetricians and Gynecologists, put it. Mitt Romney recently called emergency contraceptives “abortive pills.” And two former Republican presidential candidates, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum, have made similar statements.

But an examination by The New York Times has found that the federally approved labels and medical Web sites do not reflect what the science shows. Studies have not established that emergency contraceptive pills prevent fertilized eggs from implanting in the womb, leading scientists say. Rather, the pills delay ovulation, the release of eggs from ovaries that occurs before eggs are fertilized, and some pills also thicken cervical mucus so sperm have trouble swimming.

Now if you want to discuss the facts fine. Do it with someone else because someone told me never to argue with a fool

 

[Spiderman]

They would be party to the sins if they bought the hotel room for the affair.

But they are not. Nor are they buying anything the insurance policy covers.

Employees also pay for part of their insurance so it can be argues that the employees are paying for the "sinful" coverage.

Is that not the purpose of the case? To decide whether they have to provide "the hotel room"? If someone asks me for $100 to pay for $200 worth of something wouldn't I be a contributor?

They are not providing the hotel room.

How much of the premium actually pays for the "sinful" coverage?

I am willing to bet that if you itemized each line of coverage that the "sinful" parts are a mere fraction of the entire cost of the insurance.

The employee contribution to the premium most likely more than covers the itemized cost of the "sinful" coverage therefore the employees are paying for their own hotel room

 

[Little-Acorn]

NO one at Hobby Lobby wants to ban all BC from being covered by their insurance. Their only issue is that they do not want to pay for abortion causing drugs.

you should not discuss something you know nothing about.

I say it again, its not about abortion causing drugs its about what they BELIEVE are abortion causing drugs IN SPITE OF FACTS that say they are not.

Basically we have to all play along that their imagination is reality. If thats fine then there really is no rules. Anyone can call anything ANYTHING (as long as they are an employer)

You've said that at least five times.

You have yet to provide any evidence to back you up.

Methinks you're a lying dirtbag

Forget it, edge. All he ever does is post an article from another leftist blog (the New York Times) saying the same thing he says, which also doesn't provide any actual scientific evidence.

He seems to be hoping that repeating a lie often enough, makes it the truth.

 

[Edgetho]

Trying to rationalize with these sycophants is pointless, I'm out of here.

Hey I disagree with obamacare across the board. the "sin" argument just doesn't hold up.

It isn't about sin.

It's about the Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

 

[Spiderman]

Trying to rationalize with these sycophants is pointless, I'm out of here.

Hey I disagree with obamacare across the board. the "sin" argument just doesn't hold up.

It isn't about sin.

It's about the Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

No it's about religion and arguments based on religious beliefs don't hold up.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Trying to rationalize with these sycophants is pointless, I'm out of here.

Hey I disagree with obamacare across the board. the "sin" argument just doesn't hold up.

gramps cant go to his bag of liberal insults on you so he started shedding nervously and had to leave

 

[Avorysuds]

No one can force beliefs on employees because no one is obligated to become the employee of someone else.

Heres the rub tho. What if more employers start imposing more "beliefs"? And a few turn to hundreds? The rule still applies that no one HAS to work there but many will have to work somewhere which means some will be exposed to it.

Does the worker lose their right to the CEO's belief?

And to think, before Obama, Dems and people like you forced an unconstitutional "law" (OC is one of the only laws where the President just keeps adding and taking away from years after it's passage based on his mood that day) this was all a non issue.

You wanted to re-write the constitution, so it begins. Looks like you started with no more personal freedom...