If you're working for minimum wage your financial problems are yours alone

[kaz]

It wouldn't matter. Many places can't get Americans to work for the minimum wage now.

Well then NOT "many-places" in America are currently employing around 8-10 million people that make under $9 an hour, how does that change the discussion?

And there are a lot of places that can't find Americans to work for that money. How many fast food restaurants do you see without a HELP WANTED sign inside and even outside of a building?

social services is paying around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. rational choice theory always applies.

You pay people not worth $7.25 an hour $14 an hour and let's see where "rational choice" leads you

Keep in mind we're not talking about a lot of people making minimum wage. Only about 4% of all hourly paid workers, including full and part time are paid minimum wage or less. I have never heard of a serious proposal to take minimum wage directly from $7 to $14. It is usually implemented in steps by states over a period of years. It has a minimal impact on the economy as well the workforce. By the time the federal government raises the federal minimum wage most states have already raised their minimum wage and most workers are making well above both state and federal minimum wage. We spend way too much time arguing over it.

So if people get fired more slowly that is better? If you want them to lose their jobs, why not just rip off the band aid and do it now?

Also, not only are a small portion of workers earning minimum wage, but the ones on minimum wage rarely stay there. How does preventing the lowest skilled workers who need the jobs the most from getting any job a cause of giving yourself a smug, self congratulatory, leftist pat on the back for something you spent none of your own money on?

 

[danielpalos]

Except we do nothing to prevent them anyway.

In a way I consider myself fortunate due to my upbringing. I was raised in your typical two parent family household, went to church on Sunday, went to a Catholic school most of my life, had a stay at home mother in case I got into trouble, a situation many of us had years ago as children.

My father played the major role in teaching me how to work. He was a bricklayer and I started working with him at the age of 11 years old. During the summer evenings and all weekend, I would carry clamps of bricks to my father, mix cement, fetch necessary tools to keep the job going, and coming home a filthy mess from head to toe. He paid me one dollar per hour.

My father had a full time job as a bricklayer which is why I mostly worked with him in the evenings when he got home, had dinner, and we headed to a side job of his. As I got older, I was able to produce more work and got raises from my father, but very little raises at that. My parents seldom just handed over money. You had to do something for it in exchange.

Kids raised in single-parent households didn't have such upbringing. Yet who besides Republicans promote two parent families? In the black community, the out-of-wedlock birth rate is over 70%. Nobody seems to want to do anything about it. So of course those kids know nothing about working until they quit school or graduate and get their very first job.

If most of the failures we have been discussing had your family background, they would not be failures. Solving the problems of education, drugs, crime, mental health, unemployment, dependency, and economic growth all starts with the child and the family. Fix that and you fix it all. Unfortunately, solving social problems are the most difficult problems a nation faces. Our social welfare system is not geared to fix the problems, just maintain the status quo. The Left and Right are so far apart there really isn't much hope at the present time.

I disagree. I want to take you back to the Republican debates for the presidential nomination involving Newt Gingrich. Newt understood that not all people are college material. Our education system should teach children about manual labor--especially those who were brought up in families I just mentioned.

He was heavily criticized by the left for expressing the opinion that kids should work. They brought up slave labor, child labor, working for next to nothing, the whole ball of wax. I agreed with Newt because when I was a kid in school, we had such a program. Instead of sitting in useless study halls and gym, we were allowed to work at the various schools in the area and actually earn our first paycheck. I had to wake up extra early, go to a school, empty out trash cans, raise the US flag, burn the trash I collected, sweep the halls and so on.

Yes, kids should work and kids should study and parents should not expect their kid making C's and D's to go to college but all this does not address the underlying problems. Unless we address the underlying problems, nothing will change.

If kids are to do well in school, the first requirement is self esteem. They have to believe they can or they won't try and they need encouragement from parents or those that fill the roll of parents. Parenting classes for single mother should be a requirement for any financial support. 50% of the childcare between the ages of 2 and 8 consist of caging the children in cribs, playrooms or planting them in front of TV for most of the day. These years are the most important years for developing self esteem, learning the basic skills needed for school, and developing social skills. Fix the young kids and we'll fix most of America's problems. Ignore them, and problems will get worse.

Raising self esteem has been tried, i.e. the "everyone gets a trophy" method of teaching/parenting, and we see what that has gotten us. Precious snowflakes that can't deal with contrary opinions, or criticism, or anything else in the real world.

That's dumb. No praise at all is better than giving kids praise for doing nothing or failing. People seem to think self esteem can only be build by the parent but the fact is anyone who cares for the child can do it, parent, neighbor, teacher, or babysitter. The steps are simple but like real childcare it takes time.

• Give children choices
• Don't do everything for them
• Don't gush or offer insincere praise; kids can detect insincerity.
• Assign age-appropriate chores.
• Don't draw comparisons between children.
• Don't call children names and never use sarcasm to make a point.
• Spend one-on-one time with the child.

It sounds simple but it can take the patience of Jove. It's worth the time because it can make a huge difference in the future of the child.

If Only, we could all be as Good, as master Yoda.

Do or do not; there is no try.

 

[Skull Pilot]

the minimum wage is not the problem. it is the lack of an employ or die ethic on the part of capitalists that is a problem for labor who may have a work ethic from the Age of Iron.

it's not employ or die
it's work or die whether you work for someone else or yourself you have to find some way to finance your lifestyle on your own

 

[danielpalos]

Well then NOT "many-places" in America are currently employing around 8-10 million people that make under $9 an hour, how does that change the discussion?

And there are a lot of places that can't find Americans to work for that money. How many fast food restaurants do you see without a HELP WANTED sign inside and even outside of a building?

social services is paying around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. rational choice theory always applies.

You pay people not worth $7.25 an hour $14 an hour and let's see where "rational choice" leads you

Keep in mind we're not talking about a lot of people making minimum wage. Only about 4% of all hourly paid workers, including full and part time are paid minimum wage or less. I have never heard of a serious proposal to take minimum wage directly from $7 to $14. It is usually implemented in steps by states over a period of years. It has a minimal impact on the economy as well the workforce. By the time the federal government raises the federal minimum wage most states have already raised their minimum wage and most workers are making well above both state and federal minimum wage. We spend way too much time arguing over it.

So if people get fired more slowly that is better? If you want them to lose their jobs, why not just rip off the band aid and do it now?

Also, not only are a small portion of workers earning minimum wage, but the ones on minimum wage rarely stay there. How does preventing the lowest skilled workers who need the jobs the most from getting any job a cause of giving yourself a smug, self congratulatory, leftist pat on the back for something you spent none of your own money on?

Because, some on the left believe in actually solving our social dilemmas instead of merely paying for wars on them, for generations at a time.

Unemployment compensation at fourteen dollars an hour solves that social concern; it merely requires a moral of Goodwill toward men. And, a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage. It could be that simple, with social morals for free.

 

[danielpalos]

the minimum wage is not the problem. it is the lack of an employ or die ethic on the part of capitalists that is a problem for labor who may have a work ethic from the Age of Iron.

it's not employ or die
it's work or die whether you work for someone else or yourself you have to find some way to finance your lifestyle on your own

no equality and the right has no problem with it; i got it. capital based morals under our form of Capitalism. thanks, right wing.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

For minimum wage employers don't expect productivity...so its fair. Low productivity low wage. One works as hard as they get paid.

That's not entirely true. Depending on the job/employer pay isn't always based on productivity. There are some that any raises given are given to everyone based on a pay scale for the type of position held and length of employment.

I believe in govt assistance for anyone working 40 hours per week for minimum wage. One cannot survive on that or pay a bill.

Usually minimum wage jobs don't offer 40 hours per week anymore. Most are only part-time.

You have no idea what I would give to have a part time job for a month or two right now.
my hours for the last 3 months have been 65 to 75 hours a week, I have been working 7 days a week this entire 3 month period, I am typing this right now at 1:48am from my desk at work. Why you ask? because we are having a hard time finding people to fill the spots that we have empty right now for staff. The work is out there, the problem is that people are too picky. Yes I need to work and yes I want to work, but God forbid that the hours are on a midshift, or they include weekends, you dont expect people to give up their weekends just to have a $43.00 an hour job do you? that wouldn't be fair at all. So these positions go unfilled and people like me get screwed with having to fill in the hours.. on the bright side, thats roughly 30 hours a week of overtime. My complaints are fairly silent on payday.
I dont like these hours but the thought of being unemployed right now is not a thought that I entertain with much glee.

there are no unfilled positions; only positions that don't pay enough. please stop with the wealth, chauvinism.

there are no positions that do not pay enough, only people that are too greedy and conceited to accept that they are not worth what they think they are. And I dont care how many advanced degrees you have, if you are flipping a burger you deserve minimum wage to perform that task.
So stop with the employers can afford anything attitude.

 

[Skull Pilot]

the minimum wage is not the problem. it is the lack of an employ or die ethic on the part of capitalists that is a problem for labor who may have a work ethic from the Age of Iron.

it's not employ or die
it's work or die whether you work for someone else or yourself you have to find some way to finance your lifestyle on your own

no equality and the right has no problem with it; i got it. capital based morals under our form of Capitalism. thanks, right wing.

that's 100% equality

you work to pay for yourself, I work to pay for myself

I don't work to support you or any of your lazy friends you don't work to support me

 

[initforme]

d worker is trained in a wanted field...and sticks it to his or her employers every chance he or she gets by leaving when needed most. Loyalty is a TERRIBLE trait these days.....no smart worker is loyal to anyone but him or her self. To hell with your employer if they don't step up and give in.

 

[danielpalos]

For minimum wage employers don't expect productivity...so its fair. Low productivity low wage. One works as hard as they get paid.

That's not entirely true. Depending on the job/employer pay isn't always based on productivity. There are some that any raises given are given to everyone based on a pay scale for the type of position held and length of employment.

I believe in govt assistance for anyone working 40 hours per week for minimum wage. One cannot survive on that or pay a bill.

Usually minimum wage jobs don't offer 40 hours per week anymore. Most are only part-time.

You have no idea what I would give to have a part time job for a month or two right now.
my hours for the last 3 months have been 65 to 75 hours a week, I have been working 7 days a week this entire 3 month period, I am typing this right now at 1:48am from my desk at work. Why you ask? because we are having a hard time finding people to fill the spots that we have empty right now for staff. The work is out there, the problem is that people are too picky. Yes I need to work and yes I want to work, but God forbid that the hours are on a midshift, or they include weekends, you dont expect people to give up their weekends just to have a $43.00 an hour job do you? that wouldn't be fair at all. So these positions go unfilled and people like me get screwed with having to fill in the hours.. on the bright side, thats roughly 30 hours a week of overtime. My complaints are fairly silent on payday.
I dont like these hours but the thought of being unemployed right now is not a thought that I entertain with much glee.

there are no unfilled positions; only positions that don't pay enough. please stop with the wealth, chauvinism.

there are no positions that do not pay enough, only people that are too greedy and conceited to accept that they are not worth what they think they are. And I dont care how many advanced degrees you have, if you are flipping a burger you deserve minimum wage to perform that task.
So stop with the employers can afford anything attitude.

it is employers who are the greedy ones; they are not working for a minimum wage.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

For minimum wage employers don't expect productivity...so its fair. Low productivity low wage. One works as hard as they get paid.

That's not entirely true. Depending on the job/employer pay isn't always based on productivity. There are some that any raises given are given to everyone based on a pay scale for the type of position held and length of employment.

I believe in govt assistance for anyone working 40 hours per week for minimum wage. One cannot survive on that or pay a bill.

Usually minimum wage jobs don't offer 40 hours per week anymore. Most are only part-time.

You have no idea what I would give to have a part time job for a month or two right now.
my hours for the last 3 months have been 65 to 75 hours a week, I have been working 7 days a week this entire 3 month period, I am typing this right now at 1:48am from my desk at work. Why you ask? because we are having a hard time finding people to fill the spots that we have empty right now for staff. The work is out there, the problem is that people are too picky. Yes I need to work and yes I want to work, but God forbid that the hours are on a midshift, or they include weekends, you dont expect people to give up their weekends just to have a $43.00 an hour job do you? that wouldn't be fair at all. So these positions go unfilled and people like me get screwed with having to fill in the hours.. on the bright side, thats roughly 30 hours a week of overtime. My complaints are fairly silent on payday.
I dont like these hours but the thought of being unemployed right now is not a thought that I entertain with much glee.

there are no unfilled positions; only positions that don't pay enough. please stop with the wealth, chauvinism.

there are no positions that do not pay enough, only people that are too greedy and conceited to accept that they are not worth what they think they are. And I dont care how many advanced degrees you have, if you are flipping a burger you deserve minimum wage to perform that task.
So stop with the employers can afford anything attitude.

it is employers who are the greedy ones; they are not working for a minimum wage.

Then the solution is simple: be an employer yourself and then you can pay your workers whatever you want.

 

[initforme]

Don't work for minimum wage...those employers are bastards who hate people. Screw you if you disagree....for that a worker is not very productive. If you disagree cmon....

 

[Maryland Patriot]

For minimum wage employers don't expect productivity...so its fair. Low productivity low wage. One works as hard as they get paid.

That's not entirely true. Depending on the job/employer pay isn't always based on productivity. There are some that any raises given are given to everyone based on a pay scale for the type of position held and length of employment.

I believe in govt assistance for anyone working 40 hours per week for minimum wage. One cannot survive on that or pay a bill.

Usually minimum wage jobs don't offer 40 hours per week anymore. Most are only part-time.

You have no idea what I would give to have a part time job for a month or two right now.
my hours for the last 3 months have been 65 to 75 hours a week, I have been working 7 days a week this entire 3 month period, I am typing this right now at 1:48am from my desk at work. Why you ask? because we are having a hard time finding people to fill the spots that we have empty right now for staff. The work is out there, the problem is that people are too picky. Yes I need to work and yes I want to work, but God forbid that the hours are on a midshift, or they include weekends, you dont expect people to give up their weekends just to have a $43.00 an hour job do you? that wouldn't be fair at all. So these positions go unfilled and people like me get screwed with having to fill in the hours.. on the bright side, thats roughly 30 hours a week of overtime. My complaints are fairly silent on payday.
I dont like these hours but the thought of being unemployed right now is not a thought that I entertain with much glee.

there are no unfilled positions; only positions that don't pay enough. please stop with the wealth, chauvinism.

there are no positions that do not pay enough, only people that are too greedy and conceited to accept that they are not worth what they think they are. And I dont care how many advanced degrees you have, if you are flipping a burger you deserve minimum wage to perform that task.
So stop with the employers can afford anything attitude.

it is employers who are the greedy ones; they are not working for a minimum wage.

why should they work for minimum wage? they are the ones taking all of the risk. Should they be compensated for the risk they are exposing themselves to in order to employ others and stimulate the economy?
Im sure if you owned a major corporation, or you were the CEO, you would limit you pay to the same as what the guy sweeping the floor is paid.

 

[initforme]

God its fun denigrating....

 

[initforme]

Ceos are lazy and underworked...overpaid for sitting on their asses....case closed....

 

[initforme]

When I owned my own company ...construction, my starting wage was 25.25 per hour plus bennies...only union. They took pride in their work unlike non union slobs.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Keep in mind we're not talking about a lot of people making minimum wage. Only about 4% of all hourly paid workers, including full and part time are paid minimum wage or less. I have never heard of a serious proposal to take minimum wage directly from $7 to $14. It is usually implemented in steps by states over a period of years. It has a minimal impact on the economy as well the workforce.

It does?

Recently the city of Cleveland (all liberal Democrats) proposed to vote on a $15.00 minimum wage. It was voted down. Why? Because they knew that industry would pack their bags and move to the suburbs.

So then they had the bright idea of addressing the county and asking that the county implement a $15.00 minimum wage. They shot it down. Why? Because then industry would move out of the county.

It does not have a minimal effect, it has a huge effect. That's because industry will always try to produce close to their customers the cheapest way they can.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Keep in mind we're not talking about a lot of people making minimum wage. Only about 4% of all hourly paid workers, including full and part time are paid minimum wage or less. I have never heard of a serious proposal to take minimum wage directly from $7 to $14. It is usually implemented in steps by states over a period of years. It has a minimal impact on the economy as well the workforce.

It does?

Recently the city of Cleveland (all liberal Democrats) proposed to vote on a $15.00 minimum wage. It was voted down. Why? Because they knew that industry would pack their bags and move to the suburbs.

So then they had the bright idea of addressing the county and asking that the county implement a $15.00 minimum wage. They shot it down. Why? Because then industry would move out of the county.

It does not have a minimal effect, it has a huge effect. That's because industry will always try to produce close to their customers the cheapest way they can.

but its only because the greedy business owners think they have a right to eat and feed their families too.

 

[initforme]

Ray you are right. But I hope those jobs are left unfilled. I advocate for nobody filling them. Leave em unfilled. That would be a great sign.

 

[initforme]

Business owners are not fond of their workers. Fools believe otherwise. It should be an adversarial relationship.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I believe in govt assistance for anyone working 40 hours per week for minimum wage. One cannot survive on that or pay a bill.

Exactly! The goddam rich Republicans are the only ones who even give it a thought. I'd like to see how that bunch or elitist horse's asses would make it on what they pay their drivers or gardeners. They'd more than likely load up a .38 and blow their fuckin' brains out......if they could hit their heads.

Your comment takes me back to something my father told me when I was a kid.

If you give a poor person a million dollars, chances are, they will be poor in just a few years. But if you take all the money away from a millionaire, he will become a millionaire once again because he knows how he did it the first time.

Wealth is not for everybody. In fact, books have been written on how lottery winnings actually ruined people's lives.

maybe, maybe not, in modern times. what if, everyone who gets a million dollars also gets an appointment with a financial planner? that is the Only problem with EBT cards; they cannot be used with financial planners.

Noooooo, the problem with EBT cards is that they can't be used to create wealth. Only cash that's invested can create wealth. Any self-made millionaire already are their own financial planner. But if people who get money dumped into their laps spend it irresponsibly, even the best financial planner can't talk them out of it.