Im ready to curb gun murders. Lets work together

[Rustic]

Here we go, comparing two developed nations. With handguns and military style semi-automatics effectively banned, (stronger controls and regulations) and a firearm licence requiring a gun safety course, firearm ownership in NZ is about 20% of that of the US and firearm homicide rate is about 5% of that of the US. Yes, yes, the US is unique, no other counties' experience is applicable, it's all the blacks' fault. Heard it all before.

Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population per year

Country..Total.Homicides..Suicides..Unintent..Undetermine..Guns 100 hab

US.........10.54....3.43...........6.69.........0.18.........0.08...............112.6

NZ..........1.07......0.18...........0.84.........0.05.........0.00.................22.6

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

Firearm related deaths are a non-issue in this country… because the source of the problem is people kill people not firearms.

 

[Rustic]

Lets get to the bottom of the pandemic of suicides and gang violence with guns.
I am ready to solve this issue!
We obviously cant stop suicides. We could take their gun, but it will still happen. But we could take the gun, and they can use a knife and slit their throat. Or throw themselves in front of a bus. Maybe that's better? So there goes the number one cause of gun murder.
Gang violence. Most of them use illegal guns. So how do we curb that?
I don't want to hear no bullshit about background checks on private transactions or limited magazines or the same worn out clichés the gun grabbers use on a daily basis. Id like to work on ACTUAL solutions instead of reducing liberties for the majority of the country.
Lets work and ACTUALLY figure out a solution!
Whos with me?

As I've been yammering since literally the day I got here right between Jovan Belcher/Bob Costas and Sandy Hook --- it takes cultural change.

Throw laws at the problem and people who want to will go around those laws. Doesn't work. That's treating the symptom and ignoring the disease.

We hear of a Sandy Hook and we claim to be horrified. If that were true, if we truly were horrified, we wouldn't be living in a place where it would even occur to the Lanzas and the Klebolds and the Loughners and the Holmses to go out in public and emulate what they see on TV every night, what they see in every movie house, what they played with as kids. Because those would be horrifying too. We should be unable to watch a scene like that and then simply go to sleep as if nothing happened. We are a culture that worships guns and death and destruction and carnage, and that, the first step is to understand and acknowledge, is the disease.

You can never stop gun murder altogether. You can never stop cigarette smoking altogether either. But we drove the latter WAY down, not by throwing laws at it but by making it socially uncool. That's the direct approach.

I agree with that, except that until guns are not in every kitchen drawer and pocket, that approach is not going to work either. Along with making cigarettes uncool, we made them much more expensive, raised the legal age to buy them, and severely restricted where people can smoke in public. There was also a MASSIVE, concerted campaign to make it uncool at the same time. It still took decades. When the courts decided that the media needs to be free to spread such violent garbage to all and sundry, including children, under the guise of "freedom of speech," we lost all hope of making violence uncool. Censorship is too frightening a word in this country. We are basically anarchists at heart and I think we are going to have to try to approach the concept of social responsibility before we can even approach the influences of violence on our culture.

Violence was on this earth long before the firearm...

 

[Flash]

[Q

The Swedes should thank the American population as well. The only thing standing between an oligarchic global police state and Swedish liberty is American willingness to keep freedom alive by owning guns and keeping their government accountable.

If you want to compare Sweden with anyone, compare them to Georgia. Sweden and Georgia are roughly comparable. Governing someplace as small and homogeneous like that is easy compared to providing the world an environment where Sweden has the freedom to experiment with liberty and freedom.

32

Georgia 496,180
33

Sweden 492,618
Comparison between U.S. states and countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia

The price for Swedish liberty and their nanny state is American willingness to own guns and die in domestic gun deaths in order to ensure we remain ever vigilant, never forget that.

Just transplant all those welfare Blacks from inner city Atlanta and Macon to Sweden and see how fucked up Sweden gets to be pretty damn fast.

Not only will the crime skyrocket but the country will go broke providing welfare to the assholes.

 

[Rustic]

You are a liar. Or really dumb.

But you just can't say why?

Read my whole post!

I did and carefully stripped out every part that has nothing to do with disputing that there is no absolute right to gun ownership and handling.

Government has a right to regulate guns and they SHOULD regulate them and there is no reason to think that can't be part of the solution.

How is regulating guns going to solve the problem with illegal guns? Goddamn WHY DO I HAVE TO KEEP ASKING THAT?
Because you are all regurgitating hacks!
How is regulating guns going to stop suicide by gun? Make a gun harder to get, but they still kill themselves.
Throwing themselves in front of buses must be better than blowing their brains out.
GENIUS
READ THE OP AND THINK

We have states that regulate guns and we have states where you can walk into a store, buy a gun no questions asked, and then go back to your regulated state. You really don't see any problem some Federal regulation can't fix?

See Im ready to curb gun murders. Lets work together

You're stupid in the head, to go into a store and buy a firearm you have to fill out a background check.

 

[cnm]

Have you noticed the pattern on this thread? The proble is the inner-city, single moms. David Duke is probably covering his ears, there's so much dog-whistling going on here.

Even I can hear it and I miss a lot of it.

 

[TNHarley]

Nothing but tired ass clichés.
You statist assholes don't want to fix shit. That is fucking OBVIOUS.
You clicked on this thread and left logic in the hallway
"banning guns and regulations will stop suicide and illegal guns DDDDEEEEEERRRRR"

LMFAO.

When my kid was 14, he argued that way. "But you didn't convince me why I shouldn't play video games 14 hours a day! You just keep repeating the same old arguments!"

I'm pleased to say he's grown out of that.

then how will gun regulations curb suicide by gun and gang violence?

Gang guns don't just magically appear. Some are stolen, and some are bought through private transactions. Background checks for private transactions would cut down on those.

I honestly don't care about suicide. It's not murder.

By the way, you're framing the argument completely away from mass murderers, in which a sick or evil person inflicts death on several innocents in an short amount of time. I don't think there's as many innocent victims in gang violence. Generally it's bad people shooting at other bad people. Not that I want it to continue, but I think there are other victims more worth protecting.

And most are shipped in.I have read THOUSANDS are shipped in EVERY DAY. That's a lot of illegal guns that we couldn't legislate away. Food for thought.
Most mass murders are done by illegal guns. At least the big ones. MOST mass shootings are ALSO done by gang members. You just don't hear about them as much.

 

[TNHarley]

Lets get to the bottom of the pandemic of suicides and gang violence with guns.
I am ready to solve this issue!
We obviously cant stop suicides. We could take their gun, but it will still happen. But we could take the gun, and they can use a knife and slit their throat. Or throw themselves in front of a bus. Maybe that's better? So there goes the number one cause of gun murder.
Gang violence. Most of them use illegal guns. So how do we curb that?
I don't want to hear no bullshit about background checks on private transactions or limited magazines or the same worn out clichés the gun grabbers use on a daily basis. Id like to work on ACTUAL solutions instead of reducing liberties for the majority of the country.
Lets work and ACTUALLY figure out a solution!
Whos with me?

As I've been yammering since literally the day I got here right between Jovan Belcher/Bob Costas and Sandy Hook --- it takes cultural change.

Throw laws at the problem and people who want to will go around those laws. Doesn't work. That's treating the symptom and ignoring the disease.

We hear of a Sandy Hook and we claim to be horrified. If that were true, if we truly were horrified, we wouldn't be living in a place where it would even occur to the Lanzas and the Klebolds and the Loughners and the Holmses to go out in public and emulate what they see on TV every night, what they see in every movie house, what they played with as kids. Because those would be horrifying too. We should be unable to watch a scene like that and then simply go to sleep as if nothing happened. We are a culture that worships guns and death and destruction and carnage, and that, the first step is to understand and acknowledge, is the disease.

You can never stop gun murder altogether. You can never stop cigarette smoking altogether either. But we drove the latter WAY down, not by throwing laws at it but by making it socially uncool. That's the direct approach.

I agree with that, except that until guns are not in every kitchen drawer and pocket, that approach is not going to work either. Along with making cigarettes uncool, we made them much more expensive, raised the legal age to buy them, and severely restricted where people can smoke in public. There was also a MASSIVE, concerted campaign to make it uncool at the same time. It still took decades. When the courts decided that the media needs to be free to spread such violent garbage to all and sundry, including children, under the guise of "freedom of speech," we lost all hope of making violence uncool. Censorship is too frightening a word in this country. We are basically anarchists at heart and I think we are going to have to try to approach the concept of social responsibility before we can even approach the influences of violence on our culture.

but cigs aren't a constitutional right.

 

[TNHarley]

Lets get to the bottom of the pandemic of suicides and gang violence with guns.
I am ready to solve this issue!
We obviously cant stop suicides. We could take their gun, but it will still happen. But we could take the gun, and they can use a knife and slit their throat. Or throw themselves in front of a bus. Maybe that's better? So there goes the number one cause of gun murder.
Gang violence. Most of them use illegal guns. So how do we curb that?
I don't want to hear no bullshit about background checks on private transactions or limited magazines or the same worn out clichés the gun grabbers use on a daily basis. Id like to work on ACTUAL solutions instead of reducing liberties for the majority of the country.
Lets work and ACTUALLY figure out a solution!
Whos with me?

#1) Keep kids in school. The more education you have, the less likely you are to get into legal trouble and/or die of gun violence. I recently had a conversation with a public defender. I asked him how many of the people he defends are college graduates. He said none. I asked him how many are High School graduates. He said a few.
#2) - see #1
#3) - curb legal immigration over time and focus on filling those jobs with people who are now out of work, and we need the minority communities to step up and expect more of their youth. We should have the goal if filling engineering and similar professional jobs with children who are now living in poverty and who are on track to be criminals.

You make an excellent point!
strollingbones

 

[cnm]

More frivolous gun laws will not save a single person, and firearm registration is absolutely insane. Fact

That is hardly a germane response to a suggestion to effectively ban handguns and military style semi-automatics. Effectively ban means severely curtail private sales, buy back, then confiscate.

 

[Rustic]

Read my whole post!

I did and carefully stripped out every part that has nothing to do with disputing that there is no absolute right to gun ownership and handling.

Government has a right to regulate guns and they SHOULD regulate them and there is no reason to think that can't be part of the solution.

How is regulating guns going to solve the problem with illegal guns? Goddamn WHY DO I HAVE TO KEEP ASKING THAT?
Because you are all regurgitating hacks!
How is regulating guns going to stop suicide by gun? Make a gun harder to get, but they still kill themselves.
Throwing themselves in front of buses must be better than blowing their brains out.
GENIUS
READ THE OP AND THINK

We have states that regulate guns and we have states where you can walk into a store, buy a gun no questions asked, and then go back to your regulated state. You really don't see any problem some Federal regulation can't fix?

See Im ready to curb gun murders. Lets work together

So how is regulating guns going to curb suicide and gang violence?
That's the last fucking time I asking you that question.

Suicide gets more complicated, a lot less certain and even slightly less romantic without an easy to grab gun. I don't think there is any doubt less people will die of suicide if guns are slightly tougher to obtain, especially if you have a known mental health problem. Slicing your own veins is very different from just pulling a trigger.

Gang violence - if guns from other states are tougher to obtain they can get a lot more expensive and less likely to be acquired and used.

There are common sense laws that we can pass that will make it easier to contain the spread of illegal guns. Common sense laws that will prevent quick-and-easy gun access without a background check.

Dumbass frivolous laws won't do anything to stop that you motherfucker.
Criminals use stolen guns to do crimes...

 

[Rustic]

They include those in with the stats.

They don't include suicides in firearms homicide rates. Firearms homicide or gun murder means fucking firearms homicides or gun murder.

2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

 

[AntonToo]

Yeah they do, read the Constitution.

It is the only thing that will guarantee the government doesn't eventually turn into a tyranny. We are already living in a soft police state. Apparently you haven't been paying attention in these latter days.

Did you see who your over-lords decided to give you as a "choice" for president in the last election?

What a fucking joke.

"It is the only thing that will guarantee the government doesn't eventually turn into a tyranny."

That theory has obviously been proven false, your founders were wrong about that. Inverted totalitarianism is exactly where america is now.

Hmm strange, I don't feel particularly oppressed.

There ya go.

Thank the one in three Americans that own a gun.

Yea otherwise we'd end up like Sweedes

The Swedes should thank the American population as well. The only thing standing between an oligarchic global police state and Swedish liberty is American willingness to keep freedom alive by owning guns and keeping their government accountable.

ROFL

Way to go full-retard Mister

 

[cnm]

Firearm related deaths are a non-issue in this country… because the source of the problem is people kill people not firearms

Yeah right. Nukes don't kill people, people kill people, not nukes. Ffs.

 

[Rustic]

More frivolous gun laws will not save a single person, and firearm registration is absolutely insane. Fact

That is hardly a germane response to a suggestion to effectively ban handguns and military style semi-automatics. Effectively ban means severely curtail private sales, buy back, then confiscate.

The problem is people like you don't understand what a military grade firearm is. And most if not all violent crime is committed by people using stolen firearms…

 

[cnm]

We are not other nations, and we have much bigger fish to fry... frivolous gun laws are absolutely unnecessary and firearm registration is absolutely unacceptable....

So another one happy to accept the US firearms homicide rate as the price of easy access to firearms. Fair enough.

 

[Rustic]

Firearm related deaths are a non-issue in this country… because the source of the problem is people kill people not firearms

Yeah right. Nukes don't kill people, people kill people, not nukes. Ffs.

2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

 

[AntonToo]

The federal government is not a solution to anything you dumbass motherfucker… LOL

So lets disband it then, we'll be doing awesome at that point....right?

 

[Rustic]

We are not other nations, and we have much bigger fish to fry... frivolous gun laws are absolutely unnecessary and firearm registration is absolutely unacceptable....

So another one happy to accept the US firearms homicide rate as the price of easy access to firearms. Fair enough.

Snowflakes like yourself should move to other countries…

 

[Rustic]

They include those in with the stats. How else did we accomplish 35K murders in one year when only 13K involved more than one person?

Ffs.

Assault or Homicide
2013
FastStats

All homicides

• Number of deaths: 15,809
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.0

Firearm homicides

• Number of deaths: 10,945
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.4

2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

 

[cnm]

The problem is people like you don't understand what a military grade firearm is. And most if not all violent crime is committed by people using stolen firearms…

Ffs. I haven't mentioned stolen guns. You have no idea of my firearms experience. Bet I've spent more time on rifle ranges and trap grounds than you, not to mention having slaughtered thousands more animals than you with rifle and shotgun.