In normal world, this is known as "fraud".

[WEATHER53]

The problem continues to be that the word “fraud” has requirements to meet the definition of fraud and libs continue to ignore that.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The problem continues to be that the word “fraud” has requirements to meet the definition of fraud and libs continue to ignore that.

No, you did not listen to Dan Bongino for 5 minutes and outsmart the judge, the prosecutors, and the code of law. Sorry.

 

[Foxfyre]

You pretend to know more law than the judge.

No. But those who know a lot of law and are blindly partisan and unethtical know how to abuse and misuse it. And there are those who are blindly partisan and unethical who approve of them doing just that.

I don't.

 

[BackAgain]

Criminal law vs. Civil Law.

This case against the Trump Crime Family, is under Civil law, and the Civil rule of law is different from the criminal law on fraud.

Nonsense. In civil fraud the requirement still exists that someone has to be the “victim” of the fraud.

Because the Trump Family can not be imprisoned for committing fraud under civil law, the burden of proof and other legal measures is not as high in a civil court proceeding.

No shit.

As example the 400 times Trump answered the deposing questions under oath in a criminal trial can not be used against the defendant, however in civil cases Trump pleading the fifth 400 times, can and usually does mean he is lying or guilty etc and can infer such which can be used against the defendant in this civil trial.

You’re not being informative.

Attend to the actual question: Does there need to be a “victim” of civil fraud? The correct answer remains “yes.”

Elements of Fraud: To prove fraud in New York, the following elements must be present:

1. Material Misrepresentation: The first element of fraud is material misrepresentation. This means that the party accused of fraud made a false statement or concealed a material fact.
2. Knowledge of Falsity: The second element of fraud is knowledge of falsity. This means that the party accused of fraud knew that the statement was false or made it recklessly without knowing whether it was true or false.
3. Intent to Deceive: The third element of fraud is intent to deceive. This means that the party accused of fraud made the false statement with the intention of deceiving the other party.
4. Justifiable Reliance: The fourth element of fraud is justifiable reliance. This means that the other party relied on the false statement or concealment of material fact in making a decision that resulted in harm.
5. Damages: The fifth element of fraud is damages. This means that the other party suffered harm as a result of the false statement or concealment of material fact.

The Elements of Fraud in New York: A Guide

Fraud is a serious offense that can cause significant harm to businesses. It occurs when one party intentionally deceives another party in order to gain

www.pitcofflawgroup.com

Or, see:

New York Civil Common Law Fraudulent Misrepresentation

1. the defendant made an intentional material false representation;
2. the plaintiff reasonably relied upon the defendant’s fraudulent misrepresentation; and
3. the plaintiff suffered damage as a result of their reliance on the fraudulent misrepresentation.

Proving Civil Fraud In NY | Locally Connected - Globally Experienced Int'l Law Firm

The burden of proving the elements of fraudulent misrepresentations is by "clear and convincing evidence" which is a substantially greater burden of proof than the normal "preponderance of the evidence" standard.

www.thenewyorklawblog.com

In short, even civil plaintiffs need to establish “damages.” If there was no one injured by an attempted act of fraud by the defendant, there is no liability.

Fraud requires a victim. It’s not even a question. It’s a legal statement of fact.

 

[BackAgain]

No, you did not listen to Dan Bongino for 5 minutes and outsmart the judge, the prosecutors, and the code of law. Sorry.

You don’t grasp any part of the law.

But you certainly are “sorry.”

 

[WEATHER53]

You don’t grasp any part of the law.

But you certainly are “sorry.”

More liberal”what if” as opposed to the Reality of”what is”

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No. But those who know a lot of law and are blindly partisan and unethtical know how to abuse and misuse it. And there are those who are blindly partisan and unethical who approve of them doing just that.

I don't.

Hahahaha

So it can't be that you are a uneducated slob with no education or experience in any related field and thus do not understand any of this.

It has to be that the judges and prosecutors and grand juries are all corrupt criminals.

It makes a lot of sense, if you don't think about it.

 

[Foxfyre]

Hahahaha

So it can't be that you are a uneducated slob with no education or experience in any related field and thus do not understand any of this.

It has to be that the judges and prosecutors and grand juries are all corrupt criminals.

It makes a lot of sense, if you don't think about it.

So another blindly partisan soul bites the dust. Those, especially the more juvenile and clueless ones, go immediately to ad hominem and personal insults when they have absolutely nothing intelligent to use for a debate. And by so doing declare me the winner.

And on we go.

 

[Care4all]

Nonsense. In civil fraud the requirement still exists that someone has to be the “victim” of the fraud

No, it doesn't. Read the Judgement Summary, which went over the issue.

Has to do with the rules being equal and fair and HONEST in the business market place...when one can break rules for themselves to take advantage for themself, while other businesses follow the rules and norms, and don't have the same advantage given as the other business fraudulently lying, makes the business market unfair and unstable..... The judge explained it a heck of a lot better than I just did....

The judgement summary is a PDF document and I do not know how to copy and paste that part.....?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So another blindly partisan soul bites the dust. Those, especially the more juvenile and clueless ones, go immediately to ad hominem and personal insults when they have absolutely nothing intelligent to use for a debate. And by so doing declare me the winner.

And on we go.

"Immediately"

You seem confused. You have been getting your ass handed to you on this for a while.

And you avoided my point. Because you have to avoid it. You know how ridiculous it makes you look.

 

[BackAgain]

It was funny that NY State Supreme Court Justice Engoron pronounced, early in the Trump “trial,” that he “knew” the meaning of “fraud.”

He certainly doesn’t seem to.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It was funny that NY State Supreme Court Justice Engoron pronounced, early in the Trump “trial,” that he “knew” the meaning of “fraud.”

He certainly doesn’t seem to.

Oh look, another uneducated slob listened to Hannity for 5 minutes and thinks he outsmarted the judge, the prosecutor, and the code of law.

Amazing.

 

[WEATHER53]

No, it doesn't. Read the Judgement Summary, which went over the issue.

Has to do with the rules being equal and fair in the business market realm....when one can break rules for themselves to take advantage for themself, while other businesses follow the rules and norms, and don't have the same advantage given as the other business fraudulently lying, makes the business market unfair and unstable..... The judge explained it a heck of a lot better than I just did....

The judgement summary is a PDF document and I do not know how to copy and paste that part.....?

There is no unlawfulness inherent to seeking business advantage
That’s just weepiness frim those who won’t compete to gain an advantage. Participation trophy stuff.

 

[BackAgain]

No, it doesn't. Read the Judgement Summary, which went over the issue.

Yes. It does. Judgment summaries don’t constitute the actual law. They sometimes purport to do so. In this case, however, like you do, it misstates the law.

Has to do with the rules being equal and fair in the business market realm....when one can break rules for themselves to take advantage for themself, while other businesses follow the rules and norms, and don't have the same advantage given as the other business fraudulently lying, makes the business market unfair and unstable..... The judge explained it a heck of a lot better than I just did....

Sorry. But the judge is bound by the law not his creative writing.

The judgement summary is a PDF document and I do not know how to copy and paste that part.....

Doesn’t matter. I’ve read the judge’s partial summary judgment decision. And he is clearly wrong.

Maybe his biased law secretary should have whispered in the judge’s ear:

“No victim; no fraud.”

Rather than relying on that judge’s alleged “legal reasoning,” you would be better served by remembering that judges are also subject to getting their opinions and decisions overruled on appeal.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no unlawfulness inherent to seeking business advantage

These idiotic strawmen can be ignored.

 

[BackAgain]

Oh look, another uneducated slob listened to Hannity for 5 minutes and thinks he outsmarted the judge, the prosecutor, and the code of law.

Amazing.

I’ve already posted more definitive information on this topic than a simpleton like Farty is able or willing to try to comprehend.

Accordingly, Farty simply makes up shit and cowers away.

 

[BackAgain]

These idiotic strawmen can be ignored.

You’re an idiot and should be ignored.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

In Normal World, when you overstate the value of your holdings on official documents for the purpose of obtaining loans, that's known as "fraud". When you VASTLY overstate them, that's known as "another day in TrumpWorld™".

Defrauding people is "bad" It's "dishonest". People who commit fraud are "lying".

Here are just a few examples of how Trump commits fraud on financial documents to MAKE IT SEEM that he has a LOT more money than he does.

Trump Tower Triplex
Trump's claim: 30,000 sq ft
Actual appraisal: 10,996 sq ft

Seven Springs Estate Value
Trump's claim: $291 million
Actual appraisal: $30 million

40 Wall Street
Trump's claim: $527 million
Actual appraisal: $220 million

Mar-A-Lago
Trump's claim: $612 million
Actual value: $27.6 million

TNGC Briarcliff and TNGC LA
Trump's claim: $73 million
Actual value: $16 million

============

So I guess the question is, why are his followers so willing to overlook blatant fraud like this? Would any of you like to answer that question?

Let the deflection and personal attacks begin!

Source: Page 21 and beyond, DocumentCloud

One of the most hilarious events in all of this occurred when Trump, in front of a camera outside the courthouse, declared there was a disclaimer in all the financial statements that read, "All of this might be false". And that this disclaimer protected him to allow him to lie on the statements.

The orange moron didn't realize that the disclaimer didn't actually say that and was there to protect the financial firms from his felonies.

The dumbass literally stood there and confessed to his crimes, in front of a camera, outside the courthouse, while his trial was happening.

 

[Mac1958]

One of the most hilarious events in all of this occurred when Trump, in front of a camera outside the courthouse, declared there was a disclaimer in all rhe financial statements that read, "All of this might be false". And that this disclaimer protected him to allow him to lie on the statements.

The orange moron didn't realize that the disclaimer didn't actually say that and was there to protect the financial firms from his felonies.

The dumbass Literally stood there and confessed to his crimes, in front of a camera, outside the courthouse, while his trial was happening.

I don't know how a lawyer can represent this person.

 

[Care4all]

There is no unlawfulness inherent to seeking business advantage
That’s just weepiness frim those who won’t compete to gain an advantage. Participation trophy stuff.

Lying, and certifying special conditions that were knowingly lies, is fraud, under NY Executive Law 63 (12).