Incompetent United Air Lines Physically Drags Passenger Off Plane For Their (Airline) Mistake

[Divine Wind]

That you think he's a Liberal only serves to demonstrate what a crazy nut you are.

Oh I am well aware of what he claims to be, in fact over the years I have probably agreed with him on a Conservative issue or two, but in regards to this issue, he has the logic of a Liberal. Based on both of your opinions / logic, UA should have just cancelled the flight and removed all of the passengers because Dao wouldn't follow their request?

It's their plane, their airline, their business and they have every right to do as they want as long as they don't break the law and they didn't. Again, you believe Dao should be rewarded for this. The real effect is the majority of air travelers will pay the price for this, want to bet?

The officers should have handled it better, no doubt, but in today's society we continue to abuse the boundaries and this is a perfect example, you have to be deaf, dumb and blind to challenge a LEO and that's exactly what Dao did.

The CEO is doing damage control, nothing more...

Agreed, but IMHO, you're wasting your time trying to explain it to him. Faun has a peculiar posting style when people disagree with him:

Now you're being disingenuous.

You're as insane as ever

Moron.... those weren't LEO's. Yet more nonsense exposing your ignorance on the matter.

That you think he's a Liberal only serves to demonstrate what a crazy nut you are.

You poor, schmuck.

 

[Pogo]

That you think he's a Liberal only serves to demonstrate what a crazy nut you are.

Oh I am well aware of what he claims to be, in fact over the years I have probably agreed with him on a Conservative issue or two, but in regards to this issue, he has the logic of a Liberal. Based on both of your opinions / logic, UA should have just cancelled the flight and removed all of the passengers because Dao wouldn't follow their request?

It's their plane, their airline, their business and they have every right to do as they want as long as they don't break the law and they didn't.

Once AGAIN --- what they broke was their own Contract of Carriage, which they entered into when they sold Dao (and everyone else) a ticket.

That's exactly why I posted that Contract and challenged you or anybody else to find United an "out" in it. You can't do it. Because it isn't there. PERIOD.

 

[Divine Wind]

All the jailhouse lawyers are playing on the semantics of "denied boarding". I'm fine with letting real lawyers and judges figure it out.

In the end, as the link below details, airline CoC are written in their favor and have stood up in court since every passenger agrees to it by purchasing a ticket. That said, will airline lawyers and PR specialists be rewriting their CoCs and reviewing their procedures? Probably so, but 99% will be window dressing. The Republic case could have been avoided by 1) Using better trained security such as real Chicago cops and 2) deplaning all of the passengers before getting physical with a stowaway, belligerant passenger, someone too drunk or mentally unstable to fly, etc.

United fiasco shows airlines' power over passengers — and how it might change
“The airlines are going to write the contracts in their favor and give themselves as much leeway as possible and the customer as little leeway as possible,” said Douglas Kidd, executive director of the National Assn. of Airline Passengers.

The majority of consumers “don’t realize that airlines have absolute authority to cancel a ticket when they see the need to,” he said.

 

[airplanemechanic]

No, they don't have that right. People have a right to get to their destination. The airlines accepted payment to provide that service. They are obligated to fulfill that service.

No they're not. Since when? Since when does a company HAVE to do anything for you because you buy a fucking ticket? 20 years ago I bought a ticket to an airshow. It got cancelled because the previous day one of the performers crashed and died. I lost my money, I didn't get an airshow out of it. Should I have DEMANDED an airshow because, by golly, I bought a ticket?

If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, and he decides not to fix your car and offers you FOUR TIMES what you paid him to go elsewhere, he has more than fulfilled any obligation to you. Turning down that offer doesn't obligate him to fix your car. He can easily give you back only what you paid him and he'd have met his financial obligation to you.

Airlines are under no obligation to do anything. They can take an entire airplane full of people, deplane them, give them their money back and say "good luck" and that's not a violation of any laws. They can't do that AND keep the money but if they give you your money back, that's all they have to do. They offered 800 dollars, or 1000 or something and he turned it down.

His problem, not theirs.

 

[Faun]

That you think he's a Liberal only serves to demonstrate what a crazy nut you are.

Oh I am well aware of what he claims to be, in fact over the years I have probably agreed with him on a Conservative issue or two, but in regards to this issue, he has the logic of a Liberal. Based on both of your opinions / logic, UA should have just cancelled the flight and removed all of the passengers because Dao wouldn't follow their request?

It's their plane, their airline, their business and they have every right to do as they want as long as they don't break the law and they didn't. Again, you believe Dao should be rewarded for this. The real effect is the majority of air travelers will pay the price for this, want to bet?

The officers should have handled it better, no doubt, but in today's society we continue to abuse the boundaries and this is a perfect example, you have to be deaf, dumb and blind to challenge a LEO and that's exactly what Dao did.

The CEO is doing damage control, nothing more...

Agreed, but IMHO, you're wasting your time trying to explain it to him. Faun has a peculiar posting style when people disagree with him:

Now you're being disingenuous.

You're as insane as ever

Moron.... those weren't LEO's. Yet more nonsense exposing your ignorance on the matter.

That you think he's a Liberal only serves to demonstrate what a crazy nut you are.

You poor, schmuck.

LOL

Which of those do not apply?

 

[PredFan]

 

[Faun]

No, they don't have that right. People have a right to get to their destination. The airlines accepted payment to provide that service. They are obligated to fulfill that service.

No they're not. Since when? Since when does a company HAVE to do anything for you because you buy a fucking ticket? 20 years ago I bought a ticket to an airshow. It got cancelled because the previous day one of the performers crashed and died. I lost my money, I didn't get an airshow out of it. Should I have DEMANDED an airshow because, by golly, I bought a ticket?

If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, and he decides not to fix your car and offers you FOUR TIMES what you paid him to go elsewhere, he has more than fulfilled any obligation to you. Turning down that offer doesn't obligate him to fix your car. He can easily give you back only what you paid him and he'd have met his financial obligation to you.

Airlines are under no obligation to do anything. They can take an entire airplane full of people, deplane them, give them their money back and say "good luck" and that's not a violation of any laws. They can't do that AND keep the money but if they give you your money back, that's all they have to do. They offered 800 dollars, or 1000 or something and he turned it down.

His problem, not theirs.

I can't help you don't understand English. I was quite clear that there are reasonable excuses for why an airline can cancel or delay a flight, cancel someone's ticket, or remove them from a flight.

But now none of those reasons, which are in writing, apply to Dao's circumstances.

United's CEO even said so. Unfuckingbelievably, you have to ignore their own CEO in order to maintain your ignorance.

 

[Divine Wind]

View attachment 122360

LOL. Good one!

 

[Divine Wind]

No, they don't have that right. People have a right to get to their destination. The airlines accepted payment to provide that service. They are obligated to fulfill that service.

No they're not. Since when? Since when does a company HAVE to do anything for you because you buy a fucking ticket? 20 years ago I bought a ticket to an airshow. It got cancelled because the previous day one of the performers crashed and died. I lost my money, I didn't get an airshow out of it. Should I have DEMANDED an airshow because, by golly, I bought a ticket?

If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, and he decides not to fix your car and offers you FOUR TIMES what you paid him to go elsewhere, he has more than fulfilled any obligation to you. Turning down that offer doesn't obligate him to fix your car. He can easily give you back only what you paid him and he'd have met his financial obligation to you.

Airlines are under no obligation to do anything. They can take an entire airplane full of people, deplane them, give them their money back and say "good luck" and that's not a violation of any laws. They can't do that AND keep the money but if they give you your money back, that's all they have to do. They offered 800 dollars, or 1000 or something and he turned it down.

His problem, not theirs.

You nailed it AMX. Don't expect anyone who is blindly supporting Dao to understand reality.

They won't even accept it after the FAA doesn't do anything to United. They'll just complain, "It's corporate butt-lickers". As for Dao. His life just changed forever, and, sadly, probably for the worse. Sure, United may be spineless enough to throw some bucks at him even though the real culprit is Mayor Rahm's Aviation Department, but Dao's antics were not only illegal, but revealed him to be a selfish, mentally unstable asshole.

 

[Faun]

No, they don't have that right. People have a right to get to their destination. The airlines accepted payment to provide that service. They are obligated to fulfill that service.

No they're not. Since when? Since when does a company HAVE to do anything for you because you buy a fucking ticket? 20 years ago I bought a ticket to an airshow. It got cancelled because the previous day one of the performers crashed and died. I lost my money, I didn't get an airshow out of it. Should I have DEMANDED an airshow because, by golly, I bought a ticket?

If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, and he decides not to fix your car and offers you FOUR TIMES what you paid him to go elsewhere, he has more than fulfilled any obligation to you. Turning down that offer doesn't obligate him to fix your car. He can easily give you back only what you paid him and he'd have met his financial obligation to you.

Airlines are under no obligation to do anything. They can take an entire airplane full of people, deplane them, give them their money back and say "good luck" and that's not a violation of any laws. They can't do that AND keep the money but if they give you your money back, that's all they have to do. They offered 800 dollars, or 1000 or something and he turned it down.

His problem, not theirs.

You nailed it AMX. Don't expect anyone who is blindly supporting Dao to understand reality.

They won't even accept it after the FAA doesn't do anything to United. They'll just complain, "It's corporate butt-lickers". As for Dao. His life just changed forever, and, sadly, probably for the worse. Sure, United may be spineless enough to throw some bucks at him even though the real culprit is Mayor Rahm's Aviation Department, but Dao's antics were not only illegal, but revealed him to be a selfish, mentally unstable asshole.

Yeah, Dao sure is gonna suffer with all the millions he's going to collect.

 

[Faun]

More changes coming to United thanks to David Dao...

United will no longer use law enforcement officers to remove seated passengers from its planes. In addition, the airline will now require crew members to book their flights at least 60 minutes prior to departure.​

 

[Pogo]

No, they don't have that right. People have a right to get to their destination. The airlines accepted payment to provide that service. They are obligated to fulfill that service.

No they're not. Since when? Since when does a company HAVE to do anything for you because you buy a fucking ticket? 20 years ago I bought a ticket to an airshow. It got cancelled because the previous day one of the performers crashed and died. I lost my money, I didn't get an airshow out of it. Should I have DEMANDED an airshow because, by golly, I bought a ticket?

If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, and he decides not to fix your car and offers you FOUR TIMES what you paid him to go elsewhere, he has more than fulfilled any obligation to you. Turning down that offer doesn't obligate him to fix your car. He can easily give you back only what you paid him and he'd have met his financial obligation to you.

Airlines are under no obligation to do anything. They can take an entire airplane full of people, deplane them, give them their money back and say "good luck" and that's not a violation of any laws. They can't do that AND keep the money but if they give you your money back, that's all they have to do. They offered 800 dollars, or 1000 or something and he turned it down.

His problem, not theirs.

You nailed it AMX. Don't expect anyone who is blindly supporting Dao to understand reality.

They won't even accept it after the FAA doesn't do anything to United. They'll just complain, "It's corporate butt-lickers". As for Dao. His life just changed forever, and, sadly, probably for the worse. Sure, United may be spineless enough to throw some bucks at him even though the real culprit is Mayor Rahm's Aviation Department, but Dao's antics were not only illegal, but revealed him to be a selfish, mentally unstable asshole.

Once AGAIN (a) ---- we're not aware of United breaking FAA rules. You keep trying to bring FAA into it as some kind of smokescreen to avoid the Almighty Company's breach of its own Contract. Breach of contract is a civil matter and assault a criminal one --- FAA won't give a flying fuck.

And once AGAIN (b) --- the goons on the plane.......... and that's exactly what they are........... arrived at the behest of United Airlines. That makes the goons United's servants. And that makes them both culpable in the assault. Which is one reason why the Almighty Company (praised be its holey name) pledged never to send such goons in again in any similar situation.. that is, one instigated by the Almighty Company Itself (domini domini) and not by an innocent victim whose crime amounts to paying for his ticket.

I know it must absolutely kill you to not have an avenue to blame the victim but ------------ you don't.

 

[Faun]

In truth, airlines do indeed “bump” passengers from oversold flights, but the process by which they do so is to “deny boarding” to ticketed passengers who have otherwise complied with the boarding requirements. However, Dao was not denied boarding. Dao was granted boarding, and then subsequently involuntarily deplaned, which is not the same thing.

To understand the difference, it is important to review the facts of the case. This summary is drawn from press reports in major newspapers.

It appears that Dao had a valid ticket. He presented his ticket to the gate agent, who accepted the ticket, scanned it and granted him access to the causeway and the airplane. Because he was granted boarding, Dao walked onto the aircraft and took his seat.

Only later, after he and the other passengers were in their seats, did a representative come onto the plane and explain that four seats would need to be surrendered to make room for four United Airlines employees who needed to get to Louisville.

After no passengers accepted financial incentives to voluntarily relinquish seats, four seated passengers—including Dao—were told to leave. Dao refused.

Like all airlines, United has a very specific (and lengthy!) contract for carriage outlining the contractual relationship between the airline and the passenger. It includes a familiar set of provisions for when a passenger may be denied boarding (Rule 25: “Denied Boarding Compensation”).

When a flight is oversold, UA can deny boarding to some passengers, who then receive compensation under specific guidelines. However, Dao was not denied boarding. He was granted boarding and then involuntarily removed from the airplane. What does the contract say about that?

It turns out that the contract has a specific rule regarding “Refusal of Transport” (Rule 21), which lays out the conditions under which a passenger can be removed and refused transport on the aircraft. This includes situations where passengers act in a “disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent” manner, refuse to comply with the smoking policy, are barefoot or “not properly clothed,” as well as many other situations.

There is absolutely no provision for deplaning a seated passenger because the flight is oversold.

An added complication here is that the flight wasn’t even oversold. The contract defines an oversold flight as “a flight where there are more Passengers holding valid confirmed Tickets that check-in for the flight within the prescribed check-in time than there are available seats.”

In this case, the airline attempted to remove seated passengers to make room for airline staff requiring transport to another airport, not because it had sold more tickets than there were seats available.

more...

 

[danielpalos]

No, they don't have that right. People have a right to get to their destination. The airlines accepted payment to provide that service. They are obligated to fulfill that service.

No they're not. Since when? Since when does a company HAVE to do anything for you because you buy a fucking ticket? 20 years ago I bought a ticket to an airshow. It got cancelled because the previous day one of the performers crashed and died. I lost my money, I didn't get an airshow out of it. Should I have DEMANDED an airshow because, by golly, I bought a ticket?

If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, and he decides not to fix your car and offers you FOUR TIMES what you paid him to go elsewhere, he has more than fulfilled any obligation to you. Turning down that offer doesn't obligate him to fix your car. He can easily give you back only what you paid him and he'd have met his financial obligation to you.

Airlines are under no obligation to do anything. They can take an entire airplane full of people, deplane them, give them their money back and say "good luck" and that's not a violation of any laws. They can't do that AND keep the money but if they give you your money back, that's all they have to do. They offered 800 dollars, or 1000 or something and he turned it down.

His problem, not theirs.

You nailed it AMX. Don't expect anyone who is blindly supporting Dao to understand reality.

They won't even accept it after the FAA doesn't do anything to United. They'll just complain, "It's corporate butt-lickers". As for Dao. His life just changed forever, and, sadly, probably for the worse. Sure, United may be spineless enough to throw some bucks at him even though the real culprit is Mayor Rahm's Aviation Department, but Dao's antics were not only illegal, but revealed him to be a selfish, mentally unstable asshole.

Force majeure is specifically denied and disparaged as a recourse, for only and merely, the bottom line.

 

[Pogo]

No, they don't have that right. People have a right to get to their destination. The airlines accepted payment to provide that service. They are obligated to fulfill that service.

No they're not. Since when? Since when does a company HAVE to do anything for you because you buy a fucking ticket? 20 years ago I bought a ticket to an airshow. It got cancelled because the previous day one of the performers crashed and died. I lost my money, I didn't get an airshow out of it. Should I have DEMANDED an airshow because, by golly, I bought a ticket?

If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, and he decides not to fix your car and offers you FOUR TIMES what you paid him to go elsewhere, he has more than fulfilled any obligation to you. Turning down that offer doesn't obligate him to fix your car. He can easily give you back only what you paid him and he'd have met his financial obligation to you.

Airlines are under no obligation to do anything. They can take an entire airplane full of people, deplane them, give them their money back and say "good luck" and that's not a violation of any laws. They can't do that AND keep the money but if they give you your money back, that's all they have to do. They offered 800 dollars, or 1000 or something and he turned it down.

His problem, not theirs.

You nailed it AMX. Don't expect anyone who is blindly supporting Dao to understand reality.

They won't even accept it after the FAA doesn't do anything to United. They'll just complain, "It's corporate butt-lickers". As for Dao. His life just changed forever, and, sadly, probably for the worse. Sure, United may be spineless enough to throw some bucks at him even though the real culprit is Mayor Rahm's Aviation Department, but Dao's antics were not only illegal, but revealed him to be a selfish, mentally unstable asshole.

Yeah, Dao sure is gonna suffer with all the millions he's going to collect.

 

[Pogo]

​

Sorry the original United response is too small to read. I believe it says:

"The beatings will continue until customer morale improves".

 

[Pogo]

I'll admit the guy threw a bit of an immature tantrum - though if the reports coming out are right he's only allowed to practice medicine one day a week according to his license, and if that's the case that his /only/ day to treat patients was the next day then he has a /strong/ argument against being deplaned by lottery (also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but he was flying with his wife and she /wasn't/ deplaned?)

I'm willing to admit I'd have a fucking tantrum too, I don't think I'd take it to the point of wailing and getting knocked out simply because I have "some" pride, but damn straight everyone on that plane would know exactly how pissed I was by United's crappy decision.

I'm not clear about whether they separated them or kicked them both off. There is an image of (what looks like from behind maybe) his wife running after the body being dragged but she'd be doing that anyway regardless whether she was evicted or not.

But I do know United didn't bother to deplane their bags. They sent them on to Louisville without their owners. Sent them to the medical office instead of the residence in fact.

OK EverCurious -- here's an account from inside the plane confirming that you are correct, United evicted Dao but not his wife, separating them. They were returning from vacation in California.

>> John Fuller of Fairfax, Va., described a chaotic — and bloody — scene as aviation security officers tried to remove Dao from the plane.

Fuller said he and the other passengers — a military family with a young child, members of a high school lacrosse team and business travelers — were seated and buckled when a United employee came aboard and said that four people would have to leave the plane.

“She was very terse,” Fuller said. “She said ‘Four people need to get off this plane or we’re not going anywhere.’ ”

When no one budged, Fuller said the woman left and returned with a list. She marched down the aisle. First she told a young couple they would have to leave and then a woman. Then she approached Dao, who was sitting in an aisle seat. Dao refused. Fuller said Dao’s wife was not picked to leave.

Security was called and three officers boarded the plane. Millions of people worldwide have seen the video of what followed. “One person yanked him out of his seat and then I saw them starting to drag Dao,” Fuller said. A woman ran to the front of the plane shouting, “What are you doing to my husband?”​

[this would be the woman I referred to seen in the video]

>> “She kept shouting,” Fuller said. “The police kept telling her she needed to come out or they were going to arrest her. She finally stepped outside.”

But it wasn’t over, Fuller said. Dao returned. But now he was bleeding.

“There was blood spurting out of his mouth,” Fuller said. “He had an agitated … look. “He went by me and kept saying ‘I have to get home. I have to get home.’ ”

Fuller watched Dao stumble back to his seat.

The security officers returned, but refused to restrain Dao because he was injured and bleeding, Fuller said.

Two paramedics boarded the plane.

“I saw a paramedic escorting Mr. Dao from behind,” Fuller said. “He’d stuffed [paper] towels in [Dao’s] mouth.”

Fuller, a retired Marine who works for the U.S. Veterans Affairs Department, then watched in horror as Dao collapsed next to his seat, lunged forward, spitting out the paper towels. They were covered in blood, Fuller said.

“The paramedic then turns to the captain of the plane and says, ‘Can you get me more towels?’ ”

Fuller said that’s when several passengers got up and left the plane. There was blood on the seats and on the floor, Fuller said. Eventually, a United official boarded the plane and told those remaining they’d have to leave.

Fuller said he was appalled by United’s cavalier attitude toward the cleanup. He said as far as he could tell, no hazmat team was called to clean the blood and no effort was made to protect passengers when Dao returned to the plane, bleeding.

About 45 minutes later, the passengers were allowed to reboard, Fuller said. When the four uniformed crew members boarded, passengers booed. One shouted, ‘You should be ashamed to work for this airline,’ ” Fuller said. <<

​

Doncha love that language? "Four people need to get off this plane" ------- not "the airline needs to arrange its own affairs because it was too incompetent to plan ahead" but ........... "four people need to get off". "We fucked up, and it's your fault. You people who pay our salaires NEED to fix our fuckup". Damn, the unbridled naked arrogance.

 

[rightwinger]

No, they don't have that right. People have a right to get to their destination. The airlines accepted payment to provide that service. They are obligated to fulfill that service.

No they're not. Since when? Since when does a company HAVE to do anything for you because you buy a fucking ticket? 20 years ago I bought a ticket to an airshow. It got cancelled because the previous day one of the performers crashed and died. I lost my money, I didn't get an airshow out of it. Should I have DEMANDED an airshow because, by golly, I bought a ticket?

If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, and he decides not to fix your car and offers you FOUR TIMES what you paid him to go elsewhere, he has more than fulfilled any obligation to you. Turning down that offer doesn't obligate him to fix your car. He can easily give you back only what you paid him and he'd have met his financial obligation to you.

Airlines are under no obligation to do anything. They can take an entire airplane full of people, deplane them, give them their money back and say "good luck" and that's not a violation of any laws. They can't do that AND keep the money but if they give you your money back, that's all they have to do. They offered 800 dollars, or 1000 or something and he turned it down.

His problem, not theirs.

You don't get it

You bought tickets to an air show. After you arrive, someone taps you on the shoulder and says the air show is full and you have to leave because someone else is offering more money to see the show

 

[airplanemechanic]

No lawsuit yet, why not?

 

[Dr Grump]

It's their plane, they can do with as they see fit, the CEO is doing damage control...

Dao is an idiot, society (morons like you) want to reward him for this, you're part of the problem and I hate paying for idiots like you. This will be covered in their next fair increase, Dao sucks at negotiating 101, hard to believe his is Vietnamese...

How will there be a fare increase? That aside, total utter BS. The CEO SHOULD be in damage control. Of course Dao should be rewarded. The airline was incompetent. What sort of business is successful when it sells a faulty product? None. If you board an airline, pay the fare, and behave yourself, you expect to be taken to a destination. Not treated like cattle and chucked off the plane. A ticket isn't a $1.99 special - they cost hundreds or even thousands of dollars. To give their staff jump seats is their problem. Hire a small Cessna - or a lear jet - to get their staff to their destination. Why does it become the customer's problem? That's like me ordering a new OLED TV and they send through an LCD for the same price, and say "oh well, tough luck". Get lost. The airline was in the wrong any way you look at it. Just because they had the foresight to cover themselves in legalese (which no, normal, average person would 1) know about 2) or expect to be part of a 'contract') doesn't make them right. I know you black and white types like to live life by rules, but sometimes rules suck. Just ask those who repealed prohibition and slavery. Dumb rules, struck down...