Iraq is imploding. Should we lend air support or wash our hands?

[SmedlyButler]

P.S. Last I heard there were about 17,000 people in the Green Zone. I hope you've all included that number in your calculus of consequences.

 

[Synthaholic]

Price of oil and gas under the USA rises.

Drill baby, drill....

Samson, do we export Oil that came from the USA soil/oceans, or do we use it ALL here in the USA? I've wondered? I think it's time we use ALL of American oil in the USA, if we are not already.

Like any commodity, it doesn't matter where oil comes from: It is sold to the highest bidder.

For example: A barrel of oil in the USA is for sale. If you are in Australia, you could buy it, but then you'd have to pay the high freight cost to ship it; Thus, Aussies do not buy much oil from the USA. Instead, they buy it from Indonesia. But the price for the barrel in Indonesia in set by WORLD-WIDE DEMAND. The barrel in Indonesia costs about the same as the barrel in the USA.

Since we already have oil in the USA, transportation cost is minimized, and the USA has used almost all it produces. Recently, the USA was able to begin exporting small volumes of excess oil, but proportionally this is almost nothing. Much of this export goes to Europe, where they have no domestic resource, and must pay the transportation costs.

Oil exports aren't the issue. We are exporting huge amounts of refined gasoline. Because everyone wants gasoline from the USA because we have an EPA which set the highest standards in the world.

Because of our record exports of gasoline, our price at the pump will not go down, and is only going to continue to rise.

 

[Synthaholic]

Especially the five permanent members of the UNSC who are doing so much to slow global arms sales.

In January of 2013 the world spent about $1 trillion on arms sales, and I don't think it has decreased any since then.

The Arms Trade is Big Business ? Global Issues

If only there were some leader committed to hope and change.....

Bernie Sanders for president? It?s the longest of long shots, but that doesn?t mean he won?t do it. - The Washington Post

If you don't vote for Bernie Sanders you must be an anti-semite.

 

[Synthaholic]

We should parachute drop Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Ried, and Holder right down town. Let them sort it out.

Blaming Iraq on Obama is like blaming your hangover on the person making you breakfast.

Send Rumsfeld, he can yell at ISIS; Bush II would wet his pants at the sound of gunfire, a shoe scared him. Boehner won't put down the bottle long enough to go, McConnell is in hiding.

...in his shell.

 

[SmedlyButler]

Way back I used to post on a political discussion forum much like this one. In the run-up to the Iraq war and for a while after shock and awe. Cons, maybe even some of the same as here were singing a different song back then. It was all "endless war on terror", "make the world safe for democracy", "to the ends of the earth". We libs were cowards and anti-American for warning about kicking over the hornet's nest. So fuck you, you broke it you don't want to fix it, fine by me. I know America can't fix it, unlike you guys who thought America could fix the whole friggin' world back then. I know what you're going to say, "It's Obama's fault". No it isn't, it's your fault for swallowing the neocon kool-aid and beating the jingoistic jungle drums for them. Haven't heard many cons apologize for passing around the poison and I don't expect you crazies to man up either. So keep singing your fucked up song, even though you've changed the words it's still the same looney tune.

There is enough blame to go around on all sides, when you get right down to it.

But that doesn't mean the blame is evenly distributed.

There is no equivalency between the Bushies/NeoCons who pushed for and prosecuted the war with Democrats who voted to give the Commander In Chief the authority to invade as a last resort.

None.

In my post 2 min. ago but was afraid I was getting too long winded. You're right on the money.

 

[SmedlyButler]

We could mop up those jihad A-holes in a day or two but the US has lost it's way under the "leadership" of a community activist. The strategy has always been to rely on the propaganda arm of the mainstream media to camouflage and divert attention from crisis and scandal after scandal until it seems as if it all blew over.

It'd be a "cakewalk."

 

[Peach]

We could mop up those jihad A-holes in a day or two but the US has lost it's way under the "leadership" of a community activist. The strategy has always been to rely on the propaganda arm of the mainstream media to camouflage and divert attention from crisis and scandal after scandal until it seems as if it all blew over.

It'd be a "cakewalk."

Yes, and there won't be any casualties, it'll be "worth it".

 

[Kosh]

The far left would much rather see the world burn than admit they are wrong.

 

[Peach]

The far left would much rather see the world burn than admit they are wrong.

Bush was far left, since when?

 

[SmedlyButler]

We could mop up those jihad A-holes in a day or two but the US has lost it's way under the "leadership" of a community activist. The strategy has always been to rely on the propaganda arm of the mainstream media to camouflage and divert attention from crisis and scandal after scandal until it seems as if it all blew over.

It'd be a "cakewalk."

Yes, and there won't be any casualties, it'll be "worth it".

He's the dumbest...but I know he isn't quite considering guys like tank and nouveaustephanne.

I was just looking at your sig-lines. Funny I was just a couple hours ago reading a bit about Douglas's involvement with the women's suffrage movement. I wasn't aware of the actual depth of that involvement. Not to be a downer but just to recognize the times as they were I found it a little funny that some women thought they should get the vote first and Douglas thought Black men should get there first. I haven't gotten far enough to find out if he had no hope for black women getting the vote.

 

[Peach]

It'd be a "cakewalk."

Yes, and there won't be any casualties, it'll be "worth it".

He's the dumbest...but I know he isn't quite considering guys like tank and nouveaustephanne.

I was just looking at your sig-lines. Funny I was just a couple hours ago reading a bit about Douglas's involvement with the women's suffrage movement. I wasn't aware of the actual depth of that involvement. Not to be a downer but just to recognize the times as they were I found it a little funny that some women thought they should get the vote first and Douglas thought Black men should get there first. I haven't gotten far enough to find out if he had no hope for black women getting the vote.

He remained active in the women's rights movement tough; humans may differ in priorities, but remain committed to liberties. Frederick Douglass was a remarkable man.

 

[paulitician]

Turkey does not share your opinion. Free Kurdistan would be at war with Turkey within hours of becoming an independent state.

That is true. Turkey would invade immediately. But i think it's time for the Kurds to have their Homeland. They've suffered enough. The Arabs, Turks, and Persians have tormented them for Centuries. I'd like to see em finally prosper.

I have Turkish friends who would gleefully see every Kurd wiped out. To them, the Kurds are just murderous thugs who kill women and children with as much joy as they kill male fighters.

They should make peace and allow the Kurds a Homeland. The Kurds have suffered enough. The World has forsaken them. They've been butchered by the Arabs, Persians, and Turks for Centuries. If any good can come from the Iraq War, it would be the Kurds finally getting a Homeland. They're a good honorable people. And they've been good trustworthy friends to us. I really am rooting for em.

 

[Kosh]

Wow this thread changed quickly to "Women's Rights" which the far left is against.

The far left hates women.

 

[paulitician]

Turkey does not share your opinion. Free Kurdistan would be at war with Turkey within hours of becoming an independent state.

That is true. Turkey would invade immediately. But i think it's time for the Kurds to have their Homeland. They've suffered enough. The Arabs, Turks, and Persians have tormented them for Centuries. I'd like to see em finally prosper.

I agree with your perspective on the Kurds.

It's just that such nation-erecting commentary takes me by surprise, coming from a Paulite.

I've always operated under the (mistaken?) impression that ya'll are fairly insistent isolationist types, except on the highest macro level(s).

But, an independent Kurdish State may be an idea whose time has come.

It would mean some existing country(ies) or another (Turkey, mostly, I seem to recall) giving-up some land, and it would probably involve some population-transfers from and to various regions, and could probably only be done peaceably via the UN, but it would be an interesting exercise in political creativity.

But nations (Turkey, or anyone else) don't give-up large tracts of land without a whole lot of convincing, and getting them (and others?) to agree might prove... well, let's say... problematic.

The Kurds have proven to be brave honorable allies. And they've endured Centuries of abuse. I guess i have a soft spot for em. It is time for them to finally prosper. It really would be the only positive to come from the Iraq War. Just my opinion anyway.

 

[Synthaholic]

We could mop up those jihad A-holes in a day or two but the US has lost it's way under the "leadership" of a community activist. The strategy has always been to rely on the propaganda arm of the mainstream media to camouflage and divert attention from crisis and scandal after scandal until it seems as if it all blew over.

It'd be a "cakewalk."

Yes, and there won't be any casualties, it'll be "worth it".

Oil revenue will pay for it!

 

[Peach]

That is true. Turkey would invade immediately. But i think it's time for the Kurds to have their Homeland. They've suffered enough. The Arabs, Turks, and Persians have tormented them for Centuries. I'd like to see em finally prosper.

I have Turkish friends who would gleefully see every Kurd wiped out. To them, the Kurds are just murderous thugs who kill women and children with as much joy as they kill male fighters.

They should make peace and allow the Kurds a Homeland. The Kurds have suffered enough. The World has forsaken them. They've been butchered by the Arabs, Persians, and Turks for Centuries. If any good can come from the Iraq War, it would be the Kurds finally getting a Homeland. They're a good honorable people. And they've been good trustworthy friends to us. I really am rooting for em.

The only friend the US has in the contrived nation, yes. And the only group in the nation that can accept those of differing faiths.

 

[paulitician]

Yes, the Kurds got screwed in Paris and the Sunnis and Shiites were put there by the British over oil. However, it can't just be undone like that now.

This is a big reason why the US shouldn't be there. Let them all waste each other until they find lines themselves they can live with.

Yeah, the Kurds have been brutalized by their neighbors on all sides for centuries. It's time for them to have a Homeland. Probably the only positive to come out of the Iraq War. However, it won't come without a hefty cost. Turkey will likely invade if the Kurds declare Independence. So unfortunately, the Kurds have a ways to go. They'll likely suffer a bit more before gaining complete Independence. But i think it's gonna happen. It's time.

I agree with you that the Kurds should have a homeland. However, you're not suggesting it's the job of the United States to create it, are you?

No, the Kurds are capable of handling their own business. They've just seized the oil-rich city of Kirkuk. They're a very formidable fighting force.

 

[Kondor3]

Yeah, the Kurds have been brutalized by their neighbors on all sides for centuries. It's time for them to have a Homeland. Probably the only positive to come out of the Iraq War. However, it won't come without a hefty cost. Turkey will likely invade if the Kurds declare Independence. So unfortunately, the Kurds have a ways to go. They'll likely suffer a bit more before gaining complete Independence. But i think it's gonna happen. It's time.

I agree with you that the Kurds should have a homeland. However, you're not suggesting it's the job of the United States to create it, are you?

No, the Kurds are capable of handling their own business. They've just seized the oil-rich city of Kirkuk. They're a very formidable fighting force.

Against the Iraqis or ISIS, you're probably right.

Against the Iranians, or, more likely, the Turks, not so much.

 

[paulitician]

Iraq is imploding. Should we lend air support or wash our hands?

Wash our hands.

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. s.

It is truly amazing.

AL Qaeda is the US' friend in Syria and the administration militarily and financially assists it because they are fighting to defeat Bashar al-Assad .

But once they cross the border into Iraq they become "terrorists".

You don't know you ass frokm a hole in the ground.

.

Yes, a huge blunder committed by Obama. He shouldn't have funded & armed the Al Qaeda-linked Rebels in Syria. These groups are now wreaking havoc in both countries. He was so ill-advised on that. Putin warned him. Assad was the safer play. These groups are led by brutal Terrorist animals. Hey, it's a real mess. Nothing more can be said.

 

[georgephillip]

If only there were some leader committed to hope and change.....

Bernie Sanders for president? It?s the longest of long shots, but that doesn?t mean he won?t do it. - The Washington Post

Obama still has 3 years....

Unless he's impeached