Is evading and cheating on your taxes patriotic?

[boedicca]

It is a truth universally acknowledge that people who whinge about others not paying their Fair Share of Taxes are actually lobbying for the government to mug other people on their behalf.

 

[g5000]

Our manufacturing output is larger than it has ever been. I don't know why people buy into the lie that we don't have much of a manufacturing industry left.

The simple fact is that we have increased efficiency tremendously. There is a concept in economics called growth accounting. On one side of the equation are "inputs" like growth in employment, increases in the education of laborers, and physical capital. On the other side of the equation are increases in the output per unit of input.

America succeeds at the latter better than any other nation on Earth. As a result, our manufacturing output has steadily increased, while the labor needs to meet that output have decreased.

So as labor demands for manufacturing decrease, it is critical to our innovative edge that we educate our laborers for the jobs of tomorrow, not the jobs of yesterday. This is where we are starting to fail.

As for tax codes and businesses moving overseas (oftentimes such moves are done only on paper), you are correct. And if we rid ourselves of the tax expenditure monkey on our back, we could easily reduce corporate tax rates.

Tax expenditures are the crack cocaine of our tax code. We need serious treatment.

What? Where? In my town, there used to be a whole bunch of factories that produced things. Jewelry was a big thing manufactured around here. Well, no more. All of those factories are shut down and abandoned.

I'm sorry, but anecdotes do not negate the truth. In fact, you are actually supporting my point. Jewelry making is no longer cutting edge work. It's low skilled labor. Those types of jobs should go overseas. The high dollar jobs are in hi tech. Hi tech jobs have exploded while your lo tech factory went overseas.

Oh, please provide a link whenever you post a chart. I've known people to make their OWN charts, if you can believe that. Lol!

No problem: The U.S. Is Still the World s Top Manufacturer Seeking Alpha

 

[g5000]

It is a truth universally acknowledge that people who whinge about others not paying their Fair Share of Taxes are actually lobbying for the government to mug other people on their behalf.

Yep.

"Gimme, gimme, gimme and make that guy over there pay for it."

Gimme my mortgage interest deduction, gimme my Obamaphone, gimme my equipment depreciation deduction.

 

[ChrisL]

Our manufacturing output is larger than it has ever been. I don't know why people buy into the lie that we don't have much of a manufacturing industry left.

The simple fact is that we have increased efficiency tremendously. There is a concept in economics called growth accounting. On one side of the equation are "inputs" like growth in employment, increases in the education of laborers, and physical capital. On the other side of the equation are increases in the output per unit of input.

America succeeds at the latter better than any other nation on Earth. As a result, our manufacturing output has steadily increased, while the labor needs to meet that output have decreased.

So as labor demands for manufacturing decrease, it is critical to our innovative edge that we educate our laborers for the jobs of tomorrow, not the jobs of yesterday. This is where we are starting to fail.

As for tax codes and businesses moving overseas (oftentimes such moves are done only on paper), you are correct. And if we rid ourselves of the tax expenditure monkey on our back, we could easily reduce corporate tax rates.

Tax expenditures are the crack cocaine of our tax code. We need serious treatment.

What? Where? In my town, there used to be a whole bunch of factories that produced things. Jewelry was a big thing manufactured around here. Well, no more. All of those factories are shut down and abandoned.

I'm sorry, but anecdotes do not negate the truth. In fact, you are actually supporting my point. Jewelry making is no longer cutting edge work. It's low skilled labor. Those types of jobs should go overseas. The high dollar jobs are in hi tech. Hi tech jobs have exploded while your lo tech factory went overseas.

Oh, please provide a link whenever you post a chart. I've known people to make their OWN charts, if you can believe that. Lol!

No problem: The U.S. Is Still the World s Top Manufacturer Seeking Alpha

Well, I got to read a few sentences of the article before it stopped me and told me I would have to register to finish reading. I did note, however, that the article acknowledges that there has been a HUGE drop in our manufacturing industry.

I would register, but I'm only on a break, and I have to get back to work now.

 

[boedicca]

It is a truth universally acknowledge that people who whinge about others not paying their Fair Share of Taxes are actually lobbying for the government to mug other people on their behalf.

Yep.

"Gimme, gimme, gimme and make that guy over there pay for it."

Gimme my mortgage interest deduction, gimme my Obamaphone, gimme my equipment depreciation deduction.

I would not equate free Obama phones with deductions from Income. The first requires money from others to pay for it. Tax deductions just lower how much money the government takes from the person who earned it.

Morally, quite different things.

 

[kaz]

You have to be more specific, give me an example of a creature being preserved that keeps an economy flourishing. You have presented a very vague scenerio then want a black and white answer.

The best I can give you on it is I would not reject it out of hand. But i would need a lot more to support it than what you gave me.

You don't need more info, it's a hypothetical. It's made up (not really, there are real cases, but for the sake of getting your view this one is made up).

In this hypothetical, the science says the ecosystem crashes if the particular creature is not preserved, and the taxes pay themselves back ten fold.

How are the taxes going to "pay themselves back ten fold?" I still don't understand that.

And you didn't answer my question.

Here's a question for you, so the only solution you can think of to your scenario is government?

The ecosystem sustains the income growth, which is taxed. That's how.

I did answer your question: my solution is the people. Which is the Gov't. I cant think of anyone other than the people to solve it, no.

Government is the people. That's just sick. The people would mean choice. People who can use force on you to impose their will are not "the people." And your scenario is still too vague to give a specific answer.

 

[kaz]

By evasion, I am referring to:

1) Doing legal maneuvers which are designed only to not pay taxes, such as setting up trusts, moving to Canada, lease/buyback deals, that sort of thing. They are legal, but are done only to not pay taxes and for no other reason.

2) Doing grey legal maneuvers which are judgement calls. If you fight the IRS and lose, you are going to pay back taxes and interest, but probably not penalties.

By cheating, I am referring to overtly illegal maneuvers such as not declaring income.

It is very wrong. People who cheat on their taxes are the real moochers in this country.

Keeping what belongs to you is not "mooching," asshole.

Tax exemptions, deductions and credits come out of other people's pockets, so they most certainly are mooching.

Sure, if you believe that all money belongs to the government in the first place. Otherwise no. No they do not come from other peoples pockets.

Yes, g5000 is our little marxist in lambs clothing.

 

[G.T.]

if youre one of those governments are all tyrannical kinda guys, gluck man but we're too far apart for fruitful discussion

its not a diss, its a time saver

 

[kaz]

Tax exemptions, deductions and credits come out of other people's pockets in the form of higher tax rates, so they most certainly are mooching.

Yes, comrade, all money is the people's money, so not taking someone's money is giving them money. LOL, what a dufus.

 

[ChrisL]

if youre one of those governments are all tyrannical kinda guys, gluck man but we're too far apart for fruitful discussion

its not a diss, its a time saver

Who are you talking to?

 

[G.T.]

if youre one of those governments are all tyrannical kinda guys, gluck man but we're too far apart for fruitful discussion

its not a diss, its a time saver

Who are you talking to?

the guy who thinks the gov't is not the people

it is

I have family and friends in govt

they grew up the same way I did

a very good teacher of mine is the mayor, too

 

[RKMBrown]

Do individuals attempt to mitigate the damage from any other type of theft? Of course they do. Selling tax "evasion" as patriotic is as ridiculous as selling paying them as patriotic. It doesn't mean anything to say it.

Taxes are not theft.

As an adult, you are free to leave to another Country. When you stay, you agree to abide by the Law or you are Lawless. Simple as that, and it being YOUR choice makes it the exact opposite of theft. If you think taxes are wrong and you stay, you're giving a gift. Good job. You're quite generous.

Taking someone's labor by force is slavery, indentured servitude at best. Taking a person's assets to give to someone else, esp. against that person's will, is theft.

Taking someone's labor by force?

You mean living in a country voluntarily and not wanting to pay the military with tax money, instead calling that "theft?"

Is their labor FREE? Do you want to take it by FORCE?

Completely ridiculous.

Go live off the grid somewhere if you don't want to contribute to humans coexisting. The Earth is plenty big enough.

What part of taking someone's labor by force is slavery confused you? As for your discombobulated question... "You mean living in a country voluntarily and not wanting to pay the military with tax money, instead calling that "theft?" No I don't mean living in a country voluntarily and not wanting to pay the military with tax money, instead calling that theft. I mean taking someone's labor by force is slavery. Why is that confusing to you?

As to your question, "Is their labor FREE?" My labor is mine, my body, my actions, my liberty, my work, my reward. How much did you pay for the right to my labor? How much did you buy me for? Huh slaver?

As to your question, "do you want to take it by FORCE?" You'll need to be more specific as I'm not proposing to take anything by force, you are.

As to your recommendation for me to "go live off the grid somewhere if you don't want to contribute to humans coexisting." Why should I have to live off the grid I pay for my utilities, ya ass hole. What makes you think I don't want to contribute to humans coexisting? You must be one of those particular types of assholes that only contribute if you are forced to.

Your post doesn't make much sense. It's too incoherent to even discuss. Have a good one.

There goes that white flag again. Must suck to have to try to defend this shit and have to run every time someone turns the light on.

This isn't a "War," weirdo.

Your post had zero to do with the one it quoted, or you were too stuck in your own fantasy land to understand what it said and you made a book of a rant against what it didn't say.

It's safe to say you're not worth having a decent conversation with.

If you think tax is theft, then you do not want a military.

That's retarded because without one, you wouldn't be safe enough to WORK the job you're working genius. That's where your rant falls apart.

And if you DO want one, you seem to want THEIR labor for FREE, since taxes are theft remember?

You don't think too deeply about these things, you just see RED and say GRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrr and declare yourself superior.

Humble the fuck down and share ideas, don't be such a twat.

Yeah cause the only way we can have a military is through income tax. What a dumb ass you are.

 

[kaz]

Sure, if you believe that all money belongs to the government in the first place. Otherwise no. No they do not come from other peoples pockets.

They most certainly do come out of others' pockets. They are paid for by higher tax rates.

Only spending what we can afford just isn't part of your world, is it?

 

[G.T.]

Do individuals attempt to mitigate the damage from any other type of theft? Of course they do. Selling tax "evasion" as patriotic is as ridiculous as selling paying them as patriotic. It doesn't mean anything to say it.

Taxes are not theft.

As an adult, you are free to leave to another Country. When you stay, you agree to abide by the Law or you are Lawless. Simple as that, and it being YOUR choice makes it the exact opposite of theft. If you think taxes are wrong and you stay, you're giving a gift. Good job. You're quite generous.

Taking someone's labor by force is slavery, indentured servitude at best. Taking a person's assets to give to someone else, esp. against that person's will, is theft.

Taking someone's labor by force?

You mean living in a country voluntarily and not wanting to pay the military with tax money, instead calling that "theft?"

Is their labor FREE? Do you want to take it by FORCE?

Completely ridiculous.

Go live off the grid somewhere if you don't want to contribute to humans coexisting. The Earth is plenty big enough.

What part of taking someone's labor by force is slavery confused you? As for your discombobulated question... "You mean living in a country voluntarily and not wanting to pay the military with tax money, instead calling that "theft?" No I don't mean living in a country voluntarily and not wanting to pay the military with tax money, instead calling that theft. I mean taking someone's labor by force is slavery. Why is that confusing to you?

As to your question, "Is their labor FREE?" My labor is mine, my body, my actions, my liberty, my work, my reward. How much did you pay for the right to my labor? How much did you buy me for? Huh slaver?

As to your question, "do you want to take it by FORCE?" You'll need to be more specific as I'm not proposing to take anything by force, you are.

As to your recommendation for me to "go live off the grid somewhere if you don't want to contribute to humans coexisting." Why should I have to live off the grid I pay for my utilities, ya ass hole. What makes you think I don't want to contribute to humans coexisting? You must be one of those particular types of assholes that only contribute if you are forced to.

Your post doesn't make much sense. It's too incoherent to even discuss. Have a good one.

There goes that white flag again. Must suck to have to try to defend this shit and have to run every time someone turns the light on.

This isn't a "War," weirdo.

Your post had zero to do with the one it quoted, or you were too stuck in your own fantasy land to understand what it said and you made a book of a rant against what it didn't say.

It's safe to say you're not worth having a decent conversation with.

If you think tax is theft, then you do not want a military.

That's retarded because without one, you wouldn't be safe enough to WORK the job you're working genius. That's where your rant falls apart.

And if you DO want one, you seem to want THEIR labor for FREE, since taxes are theft remember?

You don't think too deeply about these things, you just see RED and say GRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrr and declare yourself superior.

Humble the fuck down and share ideas, don't be such a twat.

Yeah cause the only way we can have a military is through income tax. What a dumb ass you are.

oh so if they name it something completely different....................

its fine that they forcibly take the money in that case?


and im the retard?

take a break, dude

 

[kaz]

By evasion, I am referring to:

1) Doing legal maneuvers which are designed only to not pay taxes, such as setting up trusts, moving to Canada, lease/buyback deals, that sort of thing. They are legal, but are done only to not pay taxes and for no other reason.

2) Doing grey legal maneuvers which are judgement calls. If you fight the IRS and lose, you are going to pay back taxes and interest, but probably not penalties.

By cheating, I am referring to overtly illegal maneuvers such as not declaring income.

It's nice to see the IRS's posting on the USMB.

I reckon they don't have anything better to do, yes?

No idea what that means

 

[kaz]

if youre one of those governments are all tyrannical kinda guys, gluck man but we're too far apart for fruitful discussion

its not a diss, its a time saver

Who are you talking to?

the guy who thinks the gov't is not the people

it is

I have family and friends in govt

they grew up the same way I did

a very good teacher of mine is the mayor, too

And you ignored my response completely. Government is the people? Why do they need to use force then?

 

[ChrisL]

if youre one of those governments are all tyrannical kinda guys, gluck man but we're too far apart for fruitful discussion

its not a diss, its a time saver

Who are you talking to?

the guy who thinks the gov't is not the people

it is

I have family and friends in govt

they grew up the same way I did

a very good teacher of mine is the mayor, too

Even people who are in and have worked in government will tell you that if a person spends any long amount of time in the political arena, they become corrupted. I wish I could remember who that was because I would post a link, but I remember a congressman had said that. Plenty of corruption going on, too much of it.

 

[RKMBrown]

Strawman, I have no problem paying for the roads. And if I am willing to pay for the roads, that does not mean I am willing to pay for your welfare checks. Don't be a mooch.

Okay good. Quit bitching about paying taxes then.

You libtards are a bunch of mental midgets. The state of tx builds roads all the time and we don't have payroll taxes. You guys are just mentally handicapped.

 

[G.T.]

if youre one of those governments are all tyrannical kinda guys, gluck man but we're too far apart for fruitful discussion

its not a diss, its a time saver

Who are you talking to?

the guy who thinks the gov't is not the people

it is

I have family and friends in govt

they grew up the same way I did

a very good teacher of mine is the mayor, too

And you ignored my response completely. Government is the people? Why do they need to use force then?

because some people disagree with the other people but don't constitute a loud enough voice

are you suggesting that every single person should agree with every single law? cuz that's ridiculous

 

[ChrisL]

oh so if they name it something completely different....................

its fine that they forcibly take the money in that case?


and im the retard?

take a break, dude

Well, the military and other such things used to be funded by other types of taxes before the existence of income tax, but that was a long, long time ago. I don't think other taxes alone could support the costs of having the most powerful military in the world. IMO, that is a GOOD expenditure. I feel good knowing that my country has the most powerful military presence in the world.