Is Home-Schooling a Fundamental Right?

[bendog]

So Germany forcing perhaps the best secular educ available in the West is persecution? Is that your final answer?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I don't think their homeschooling really has anything to do with it. They are German. It's almost impossible for anybody from Europe to immigrate here unless they marry and American citizen. If they were from Mexico or some country in Africa or even Russia, our government would be pushing to get them here.

yet BO and his lapdog DOJ are taking it up in order to cancel that individual/religious right here in America....

You are operating under a misconception. Fundamental Rights are granted non-citizens here legally, except for voting.

http://scholarship.law.georgetown.e... rights available non citizens united states"

However, the only due process due in an immigration proceeding is the due process due in an administrative hearing, which is basically a hearing, representation by yourself or a private attorney, and equal treatment for all people, ie no arbitrary and capricious descions. Thus, unless the Germans can show they are "persecuted" they have right to be here, and they have no fundamental right to educate their kids here (at some expense to us, btw)

A previous poster hypothesized if they were from mexico or africa the admin would have a different tune. Setting aside the racism inherent in that view, considering there's a history of persecuting christians in some latin american and african countries, comparing germany to the third world is ignorant.

But, the bottom line is unless you think Germany is "persecuting" these people by forcing secular education and allowing them to practice the religion of their choice privately ... Obama should deport them.

if you decided to homeschool your kids and the feds came and hauled your kids away.....wouldn't you consider that persecution....?

....this is why BO and his lapdog DOJ are trying to take away our rights to homeschooling...because then they can say nobody is being 'persecuted'.....(except maybe the children for getting a good education at home...)

 

[bodecea]

The question is whether a German citizen in violation of German law can claim asylum for being 'persecuted'.

Homeschooling is illegal in Germany. Does the sovereign nation of Germany have the right to outlaw homeschooling?

Can Germans who don't happen to like that German law claim 'persecution' sufficient to qualify for asylum?

At first glance I'd say no. Someone convince me otherwise.

Let's look at the unforeseen consequences. If this family is allowed asylum because they don't like their educational choices in their home country....that sets the precedent for ANYBODY declaring asylum because they don't like the educational choices in their home country.....do we want to go there?

 

[bendog]

yet BO and his lapdog DOJ are taking it up in order to cancel that individual/religious right here in America....

You are operating under a misconception. Fundamental Rights are granted non-citizens here legally, except for voting.

http://scholarship.law.georgetown.e... rights available non citizens united states"

However, the only due process due in an immigration proceeding is the due process due in an administrative hearing, which is basically a hearing, representation by yourself or a private attorney, and equal treatment for all people, ie no arbitrary and capricious descions. Thus, unless the Germans can show they are "persecuted" they have right to be here, and they have no fundamental right to educate their kids here (at some expense to us, btw)

A previous poster hypothesized if they were from mexico or africa the admin would have a different tune. Setting aside the racism inherent in that view, considering there's a history of persecuting christians in some latin american and african countries, comparing germany to the third world is ignorant.

But, the bottom line is unless you think Germany is "persecuting" these people by forcing secular education and allowing them to practice the religion of their choice privately ... Obama should deport them.

if you decided to homeschool your kids and the feds came and hauled your kids away.....wouldn't you consider that persecution....?

....this is why BO and his lapdog DOJ are trying to take away our rights to homeschooling...because then they can say nobody is being 'persecuted'.....(except maybe the children for getting a good education at home...)

If I did, I would because I AM AN AMERICAN AND HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO HOMESCHOOL

The question I posed to you is whether Germany persecutes it's own ciitizens by saying they can't homeschool. And given the history of the 20th century, I have three really good reasons they say that.

I think you may believe that any infringement upon your rights to practice your religion in any way you wish is a fundamental right given to any person on the planet by their creator. But, I'm trying to not put words in your mouth, and just ask a civil question. But, I will point out that even in the US we don't consider the practice of religion so "liberally," as the US Supreme Court has held otherwise with both polygamy and native americans.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Interesting that you bring in the USSR...a perfect example of indoctrination in our schools:

1. The federally funded “National History Standards” for elementary schools were released in 1994, cemented a revisionist view of American Communism for schoolteachers, as the guide mentions McCarthy over twenty times, while Edison and the Wright Brothers got no mention. “It …repeatedly condemns McCarthyism as an unmitigated evil…[but] the Hiss-Chambers and Rosenberg cases, the two dominant controversies of the anticommunist era, are described with bland, neutral language crafted to keep from implying guilt while not being quite so foolhardy as to actually assert innocence..’National Standards’…implies that the cases are part and parcel of the McCartyite horror.”
From “In Denial,” by Haynes and Klehr, pg. 151


2. Revisionist views are found, for example, in the work of Ellen Wolf Schrecker, Ph.D., a professor of American history at Yeshiva University, who states “ whatever threat to the United States such espionage [by US citizens working for Soviet intelligence] may have posed, it was gone by the time the main justification for the McCarthy-era purges.” The revisionists claim that the greater sin was not the betrayal of the country by American Communists, but anticommunists using that betrayal as “a rationalization for the most widespread and the longest-lasting episode of political repression in our nation’s history.”


3. The Professor’s view is based on the relatively small number of prosecutions and convictions, but this overlooks the objectives of the FBI, which weighed exposing sources vs. prosecutions. The aim in counterespionage is always to disrupt the cells and prosecutions are secondary. The ongoing decryption of the Venona cables severely damaged and disruptions of Soviet espionage rings (over 300 Soviet agents active in the US Government during WWII and thereafter) in the last half of the ‘40’s and ‘50’s, and, while only a few spies were prosecuted, scores of others were identified, removed from their government posts and neutralized.

Others who functioned as support personnel for Soviet espionage networks (couriers, recruiters, hosts of safe houses, and providers of false identities and sham jobs) were identified, questioned and frightened into inactivity. The Cold War and Korea reduced government and public toleration for Communists and Communist sympathizers. Truman’s legal assault on communism, including the Smith Act, prosecuted leaders and included removing security risks from government. (see “In Denial,” Haynes and Klehr)


This is the nature and method of 'public school' indoctrination.

Let me point out you are indoctrinating here with a reactionary Mises-like interp.

There is no question that right wing and left wing are battling for the public ed. The Texas school book battle is one of the classic examples.

You may certainly "point out" whatsoever you wish, but the point-er would be the operative consideration.

And, as usual, you would be wrong.

You may leave when ever you wish, read what you wish, disagree as you wish....and not have a grade in "USMB."

The same is not true of those enrolled in public school.

I'm not surprised that you fail to recognize the difference.

Quit being goofy, PoliticalChic, because, yes, almost every time you post you are engaged in the Mises art of indoctrination. And a grade is not required (this is one of your more silly statements).

Verb Teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically: "broadcasting was a vehicle for indoctrinating the masses". https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugex...494,d.aWM&fp=374bd532ebfbf920&biw=561&bih=331

Nice try but fail.

 

[boilermaker55]

You also read more into the post than was there. I am not against home schooling , unless it is not done period. There is no way you can say that all children being home schooled are being schooled.
Personally, I know a few couples that home school their children, which is fine, and they do a very wonderful job. It is those that use home schooling for another means.
Who do you suppose is responsible for the drop outs. You need to read the statutes on the books in your community and then check to see how much influence the school district and the legal system has in making sure students go to school.
Then get back to me.

Home schooling is a very complicated subject to debate.
Is homeschooling credible? Certainly it is when it is done in a correct manner and if it is diligently performed by those in charge.
If it is done in a half-hearten manner the ones that suffer are, of course the children.
Who holds the Homeschooling Association to credentials? Do you feel it is necessary to make them be accountable for the education of their children?
Public educators are held to a standard, so why should not the home educators.

All things are credible, if they are done in a correct manner and diligently performed.

To be held to a standard, the people who fail to meet the standard must be held accountable. Who is being held accountable in the public schools? Who is being held accountable for 40% drop out rates in some public schools? What happens to the education of those dropouts?

Address your concerns to the real problems and leave other parents alone to decide what is the best course for their children.

In Alaska, a good percentage of children receive their lessons through radio, TV, or the internet, and are tutored by their parents. Year after year, these students score higher on the end of year tests than their counterparts who attend public schools. Parents are not the problem.

 

[Againsheila]

I don't think their homeschooling really has anything to do with it. They are German. It's almost impossible for anybody from Europe to immigrate here unless they marry and American citizen. If they were from Mexico or some country in Africa or even Russia, our government would be pushing to get them here.

yet BO and his lapdog DOJ are taking it up in order to cancel that individual/religious right here in America....

You are operating under a misconception. Fundamental Rights are granted non-citizens here legally, except for voting.

http://scholarship.law.georgetown.e... rights available non citizens united states"

However, the only due process due in an immigration proceeding is the due process due in an administrative hearing, which is basically a hearing, representation by yourself or a private attorney, and equal treatment for all people, ie no arbitrary and capricious descions. Thus, unless the Germans can show they are "persecuted" they have right to be here, and they have no fundamental right to educate their kids here (at some expense to us, btw)

A previous poster hypothesized if they were from mexico or africa the admin would have a different tune. Setting aside the racism inherent in that view, considering there's a history of persecuting christians in some latin american and african countries, comparing germany to the third world is ignorant.

But, the bottom line is unless you think Germany is "persecuting" these people by forcing secular education and allowing them to practice the religion of their choice privately ... Obama should deport them.

I also said Russia, I noticed you left that out because you wanted to get that "racist" accusation in while you could. And comparing Germany to the 3rd world in this case is appropriate since it is changes in our immigration laws which have made it almost impossible for people to immigrate here from 1st world nations while making it much easier to immigrate here from 3rd world nations.

Again, the biggest problem is not that these people home school, it's that they are from Europe. Had they been from any country in Africa, South America, or Asia <and I am including Russian here since Russia makes up a big part of Asia although many people seem to forget that these days>, they would almost be a sure thing on immigrating here.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The question is whether a German citizen in violation of German law can claim asylum for being 'persecuted'.

Homeschooling is illegal in Germany. Does the sovereign nation of Germany have the right to outlaw homeschooling?

Can Germans who don't happen to like that German law claim 'persecution' sufficient to qualify for asylum?

At first glance I'd say no. Someone convince me otherwise.

Asylum eligibility has three basic requirements.

First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution. met

[2] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, and social group. met

Third, an applicant must establish that the government is either involved in the persecution, or unable to control the conduct of private actors. met

Asylum in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So any woman in a country where abortion is illegal can claim persecution and thus asylum in the US. And can't be denied?

 

[bendog]

yet BO and his lapdog DOJ are taking it up in order to cancel that individual/religious right here in America....

You are operating under a misconception. Fundamental Rights are granted non-citizens here legally, except for voting.

http://scholarship.law.georgetown.e... rights available non citizens united states"

However, the only due process due in an immigration proceeding is the due process due in an administrative hearing, which is basically a hearing, representation by yourself or a private attorney, and equal treatment for all people, ie no arbitrary and capricious descions. Thus, unless the Germans can show they are "persecuted" they have right to be here, and they have no fundamental right to educate their kids here (at some expense to us, btw)

A previous poster hypothesized if they were from mexico or africa the admin would have a different tune. Setting aside the racism inherent in that view, considering there's a history of persecuting christians in some latin american and african countries, comparing germany to the third world is ignorant.

But, the bottom line is unless you think Germany is "persecuting" these people by forcing secular education and allowing them to practice the religion of their choice privately ... Obama should deport them.

I also said Russia, I noticed you left that out because you wanted to get that "racist" accusation in while you could. And comparing Germany to the 3rd world in this case is appropriate since it is changes in our immigration laws which have made it almost impossible for people to immigrate here from 1st world nations while making it much easier to immigrate here from 3rd world nations.

Again, the biggest problem is not that these people home school, it's that they are from Europe. Had they been from any country in Africa, South America, or Asia <and I am including Russian here since Russia makes up a big part of Asia although many people seem to forget that these days>, they would almost be a sure thing on immigrating here.

Racist may be unfair, but it it is it's because your post was mistaken about immigration. Immigration is different from allowing someon "to jump a head in line because they're persecuted." Immigration is letting people in because they have skills and/or kin here.

Below the immigration figures in Table 3
Immigrants in the United States, 2010: A Profile of America's Foreign-Born Population | Center for Immigration Studies

I have no idea why anyone would expect otherwise. We have a latin american increase because we need young, realitively unnskilled workers, and we have a lot of folks from Asia. The EU doesn't have an excess of unskilled workers or people leaving for education.

As for Russians, they're in the West Bank. I'm not really aware that Russia currently persecutes Christians, but perhaps I'm wrong. But I'm sure Germany does not, while El Salvador certainly did and Nigeria continues the practice today ... and they're especially intolerant of gays.

But you may view any restriction on christian religious practices as fundamental right violation in any country on the earth. As a matter of fact, that would be incorrect, but as an American that would be your right.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Germany allows private religious schools.

The family isn't being singled out for persecution; they're being expected to obey a law that applies to all Germans. No homeschooling.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The question is whether a German citizen in violation of German law can claim asylum for being 'persecuted'.

Homeschooling is illegal in Germany. Does the sovereign nation of Germany have the right to outlaw homeschooling?

Can Germans who don't happen to like that German law claim 'persecution' sufficient to qualify for asylum?

At first glance I'd say no. Someone convince me otherwise.

They don't have to claim persecution, they can get a visitor's visa, come to the USA, and just stay here. Then, you liberal/socialists would go to war to insist they have a right to be here. You just don't like the idea that they are trying to do it the legal way.

I'm an isolationist; I'm not too keen on much of any sort of immigration. You're talking to the wrong person.

 

[Unkotare]

It's almost impossible for anybody from Europe to immigrate here unless they marry and American citizen. .

About 12% of all immigrants to the US each year come from Europe.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's almost impossible for anybody from Europe to immigrate here unless they marry and American citizen. .

About 12% of all immigrants to the US each year come from Europe.

^^^

 

[Unkotare]

changes in our immigration laws which have made it almost impossible for people to immigrate here from 1st world nations .

That is just not true.

 

[JakeStarkey]

AgainSheila, you are wrong about Europeans not being able to immigrate here. Nearly 1 out of 7 or 8 annually come from Europe.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Germany bars home schooling because there are still plenty of Nazi sympathizers there.

Is that a violation of individual rights? Of course it is. However, given the 20th century history of the squarehead element, fuck their individual rights- home schooling probably shouldn't be allowed in Germany for another generation or two.

As Americans it is our right to home school our children. The state has the power if not the moral right to require periodic testing to ensure specific competencies.

If it is true that fake liberals intend to try to ban home schooling, then nutballs can be sure of some big electoral gains in the following year or two.

Not really a lot more to it than that.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

You are operating under a misconception. Fundamental Rights are granted non-citizens here legally, except for voting.

http://scholarship.law.georgetown.e... rights available non citizens united states"

However, the only due process due in an immigration proceeding is the due process due in an administrative hearing, which is basically a hearing, representation by yourself or a private attorney, and equal treatment for all people, ie no arbitrary and capricious descions. Thus, unless the Germans can show they are "persecuted" they have right to be here, and they have no fundamental right to educate their kids here (at some expense to us, btw)

A previous poster hypothesized if they were from mexico or africa the admin would have a different tune. Setting aside the racism inherent in that view, considering there's a history of persecuting christians in some latin american and african countries, comparing germany to the third world is ignorant.

But, the bottom line is unless you think Germany is "persecuting" these people by forcing secular education and allowing them to practice the religion of their choice privately ... Obama should deport them.

if you decided to homeschool your kids and the feds came and hauled your kids away.....wouldn't you consider that persecution....?

....this is why BO and his lapdog DOJ are trying to take away our rights to homeschooling...because then they can say nobody is being 'persecuted'.....(except maybe the children for getting a good education at home...)

If I did, I would because I AM AN AMERICAN AND HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO HOMESCHOOL

The question I posed to you is whether Germany persecutes it's own ciitizens by saying they can't homeschool. And given the history of the 20th century, I have three really good reasons they say that.

I think you may believe that any infringement upon your rights to practice your religion in any way you wish is a fundamental right given to any person on the planet by their creator. But, I'm trying to not put words in your mouth, and just ask a civil question. But, I will point out that even in the US we don't consider the practice of religion so "liberally," as the US Supreme Court has held otherwise with both polygamy and native americans.

you can't serve two masters....saying that banning homeschooling in Germany is OK is to undermine your argument that it is not OK here in the USA.....that's like saying it's OK to kill gays in other countries just because they are in another country....

the standard we go by here in the U.S. is the U.S. Constitution...freedom of the individual and freedom of religion...

by U.S. standards the German family is being persecuted....jail, fines, and taking away your kids for homeschooling is plainly persecution.....so i say let them come here if they fit within our quotas...i'd rather have them here than some bozo mexican carrying tuberculosis sneaking across the border...

it is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING to see the marxist BO and his lapdog DOJ try to rule that homeschooling is not an American right....and watch liberals support them.....

 

[JakeStarkey]

Screaming Eagle would make an excellent Marxist minion of BHO. He can't think, so he would fit right in.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Screaming Eagle would make an excellent Marxist minion of BHO. He can't think, so he would fit right in.

Flakey Jake even has to steal my words to make his insults...

but i did notice you inserted the HUSSEIN initial.....couldn't quite bring yourself to say 'BO' could ya.....?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Screaming Eagle would make an excellent Marxist minion of BHO. He can't think, so he would fit right in.

Flakey Jake even has to steal my words to make his insults...

but i did notice you inserted the HUSSEIN initial.....couldn't quite bring yourself to say 'BO' could ya.....?

You prove my point, my menial minded minion.

Now define Marxism and give us absolute, solid evidence how your buddy Barak Hussein Obama is a Marxist.