Is Home-Schooling a Fundamental Right?

[PoliticalChic]

why is it christians are always so unchristian

Now...why didn't you respond to post #149?

Oh....because you realized that all are scientific beliefs, based on faith.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'm left and I don't support arresting 10 year olds not do I support any religionist.

Uh oh....

"President Obama: ‘I am a Christian By Choice…The Precepts of Jesus Spoke to Me’"
President Obama: ?I am a Christian By Choice?The Precepts of Jesus Spoke to Me? - ABC News



He's gonna be crushed!

Doesn't make him a religionist.

Religionist - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

No wonder you don't agree with me....you don't understand your own link.

Religionist: " a person adhering to a religion;"

 

[boilermaker55]

Well, you can make accusations like this all you want but you show nothing but absolute ignorance , which you do quite regularly in your posting. So keep to your comments that are, and to put it mildly, idiotic and ideologically motivated.
Perhaps you are one of the home schooled that were not home schooled.

Thank you for showing how belligerent you always are commenting.

Home schooling is a very complicated subject to debate.
Is homeschooling credible? Certainly it is when it is done in a correct manner and if it is diligently performed by those in charge.
If it is done in a half-hearten manner the ones that suffer are, of course the children.
Who holds the Homeschooling Association to credentials? Do you feel it is necessary to make them be accountable for the education of their children?
Public educators are held to a standard, so why should not the home educators.

You certainly have proven that you are clueless about the subject.

1. Example: "Public educators are held to a standard,.."

"NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — It’s an education bombshell.

Nearly 80 percent of New York City high school graduates need to relearn basic skills before they can enter the City University’s community college system.

The number of kids behind the 8-ball is the highest in years, CBS 2′s Marcia Kramer reported Thursday."
Officials: NYC High School Students Entering CUNY Need Remedial Help « CBS New York



2. "Do you feel it is necessary to make them be accountable for the education of their children?"
Do you comprehend the last two words in your quote?

The Supreme Court has determined that there is not a government right to determine the education of children.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have no problem with mandatory requirements for basic education for all of America's school children. I have no problem with testing the kids to be sure they can read, can do basic math, and have a reasonable understanding of English, science, history, and geography as age appropriate.

I have a HUGE problem with government having the sole legal ability to provide this education.

And certainly the record is very clear, no matter who is doing the evaluation, that children who are educated best are much more likely to be:

First: Homeschooled
Second: Private schooled
Thirdly: Parochial schooled
And lastly: Government schooled

Also, homeschooled kids are far less likely to get involved in illegal substances, get in trouble with the law, have severe emotional or social problems, and are far more likely to obtain a highschool diploma and go on to college than are government schooled kids.

 

[boilermaker55]

Evidence of your claim please.

I have no problem with mandatory requirements for basic education for all of America's school children. I have no problem with testing the kids to be sure they can read, can do basic math, and have a reasonable understanding of English, science, history, and geography as age appropriate.

I have a HUGE problem with government having the sole legal ability to provide this education.

And certainly the record is very clear, no matter who is doing the evaluation, that children who are educated best are much more likely to be:

First: Homeschooled
Second: Private schooled
Thirdly: Parochial schooled
And lastly: Government schooled

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well, you can make accusations like this all you want but you show nothing but absolute ignorance , which you do quite regularly in your posting. So keep to your comments that are, and to put it mildly, idiotic and ideologically motivated.
Perhaps you are one of the home schooled that were not home schooled.

Thank you for showing how belligerent you always are commenting.

Home schooling is a very complicated subject to debate.
Is homeschooling credible? Certainly it is when it is done in a correct manner and if it is diligently performed by those in charge.
If it is done in a half-hearten manner the ones that suffer are, of course the children.
Who holds the Homeschooling Association to credentials? Do you feel it is necessary to make them be accountable for the education of their children?
Public educators are held to a standard, so why should not the home educators.

You certainly have proven that you are clueless about the subject.

1. Example: "Public educators are held to a standard,.."

"NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — It’s an education bombshell.

Nearly 80 percent of New York City high school graduates need to relearn basic skills before they can enter the City University’s community college system.

The number of kids behind the 8-ball is the highest in years, CBS 2′s Marcia Kramer reported Thursday."
Officials: NYC High School Students Entering CUNY Need Remedial Help « CBS New York



2. "Do you feel it is necessary to make them be accountable for the education of their children?"
Do you comprehend the last two words in your quote?

The Supreme Court has determined that there is not a government right to determine the education of children.

"Thank you for showing how belligerent you always are commenting."

There's no grain in that silo.



This is not public school.
You don't get a pat on the head for evincing stupidity.

And, you are correct: I don't suffer fools lightly.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Nobody is insulting Germany or slapping them in the face. Perhaps you don't know the purpose of political asylum? It is to provide safe haven for those who face arrest or other severe persecution from oppressive laws. If we in the United States believe in unalienable rights, one of which is the right to educate our children ourselves, then we have to believe it is wrong to deny that right to others also.

It's an insult to Germany. Not allowing home school in lieu of public school is not oppressive. By giving political asylum for such an issue we are telling Germany that we think they're oppressive assholes. In the US it's a right to home school, but to believe that our rights extend to every other country is a new level of arrogance. America does not know what's best for the rest of the world.

What is so terrible about a productive German couple being given asylum who want nothing from us other than the right to remove their children from an anti-Christian environment?

First, I would like to know what they felt was anti-christian. Was it just because god wasn't sprinkled into every lesson, or because the school was teaching kids to be against god? But even then, if that's what they believe they can move. Apply for citizenship to another country and move. Or they can supplement their kid's education after school to reinforce their christian values. But breaking their country's law, which is almost 300 years old, then acting like the victim when the inevitable repercussions happen shows that they are either idiots, or were planning on being given asylum as a way to speed up leaving the country.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Evidence of your claim please.

I have no problem with mandatory requirements for basic education for all of America's school children. I have no problem with testing the kids to be sure they can read, can do basic math, and have a reasonable understanding of English, science, history, and geography as age appropriate.

I have a HUGE problem with government having the sole legal ability to provide this education.

And certainly the record is very clear, no matter who is doing the evaluation, that children who are educated best are much more likely to be:

First: Homeschooled
Second: Private schooled
Thirdly: Parochial schooled
And lastly: Government schooled

Urban parochial schools were serving a growing share of disadvantaged and frequently non-Catholic youngsters. In a study published in 1990, for example, the Rand Corporation found that, of the Catholic school students in these Catholic high schools in New York City, 75 to 90 percent were black or Hispanic.

i. Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction;

ii. The Catholic high schools graduated 95 percent of their students each year, while the public schools graduated slightly more 50 percent of their senior class;

iii. The Catholic school students achieved an average combined SAT score of 803, while the public school students' average combined SAT score was 642;

iv. 60 percent of the Catholic school black students scored above the national average for black students on the SAT, and over 70 percent of public school black students scored below the same national average.
 More recent studies confirm these observations.
Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-CityChildren

 

[theHawk]

Why cant you face NOT everyone is going to be a christian?

why do you ask more of others than you are willing to do yourself?

Why can't you face that NOT everyone wants their children taught by government run schools?


And who asks more of others than they do of themselves? Do liberals not ask others to pay higher taxes than they do all the time?

Why are you so against people having a CHOICE in how to educate their own children?

 

[boilermaker55]

Seeing as you like to dwell on insulting, let me say this in finality to you, you must "And, you are correct: I don't suffer fools lightly" you must because you certainly do within yourself.

Well, you can make accusations like this all you want but you show nothing but absolute ignorance , which you do quite regularly in your posting. So keep to your comments that are, and to put it mildly, idiotic and ideologically motivated.
Perhaps you are one of the home schooled that were not home schooled.

Thank you for showing how belligerent you always are commenting.

You certainly have proven that you are clueless about the subject.

1. Example: "Public educators are held to a standard,.."

"NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — It’s an education bombshell.

Nearly 80 percent of New York City high school graduates need to relearn basic skills before they can enter the City University’s community college system.

The number of kids behind the 8-ball is the highest in years, CBS 2′s Marcia Kramer reported Thursday."
Officials: NYC High School Students Entering CUNY Need Remedial Help « CBS New York



2. "Do you feel it is necessary to make them be accountable for the education of their children?"
Do you comprehend the last two words in your quote?

The Supreme Court has determined that there is not a government right to determine the education of children.

"Thank you for showing how belligerent you always are commenting."

There's no grain in that silo.



This is not public school.
You don't get a pat on the head for evincing stupidity.

And, you are correct: I don't suffer fools lightly.

 

[bodecea]

1. "Barack Obama’s Department of Justice ...considers a German homeschooling family a threat to America’s future.AG Eric Holder’s DOJ is arguing against providing asylum for Uwe and Hannelore Romeike, German parents who fled from Germany after they were threatened with jail, fines and the forcible removal of their children from their home. What was their crime? They were homeschooling their children!




2. The Germany family was initially granted asylum, but then the Obama Administration appealed the case to the Board of Immigration Appeals.

3. This case will not only impact this German home schooling family, but ... the right of parents to bring up their children without government intrusion.




4. The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere – including the U.S. The DOJ is also claiming that there is no such thing as an “individual right” to religious liberty and conscience.

5. AG Eric Holder and his gang of thugs at the DOJ believe that there are only “group” rights. If you belong to a group, you’re protected; if you don’t, you can’t expect any legal protection.

6. “The United States Supreme Court has made it very clear in the past that religious freedom is an individual right. Yet our current government does not seem to understand this. They only think of us as members of groups and factions. It is an extreme form of identity politics that directly threatens any understanding of individual liberty.”




7. ...the Obama DOJ is rejecting the fundamental principles of our Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which clearly deal with individual rights of religious liberty and conscience.

8. This isn’t surprising, given the collectivist mentality of Obama and his minions running the White House and the U.S. Senate. They are totalitarians – and they will do whatever they can to undermine our fundamental individual rights."
Obama ?Justice? Department Seeks To Block Asylum For German Homeschooling Family




I feel certain that even our Liberal friends will see this attack on individual liberty is a line that no democracy should cross.

Wait...aren't German schools frequently held up as being better than U.S. schools in educating students? Now they are bad?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

BO and his marxist minions are against homeschooling because they believe the STATE should be the only "approved" source of all knowledge.....AND because they are against individual and religious freedom.....

this is serious ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL and pro-socialism stuff.....

The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere – including the U.S. The DOJ is also claiming that there is no such thing as an “individual right” to religious liberty and conscience. AG Eric Holder and his gang of thugs at the DOJ believe that there are only “group” rights. If you belong to a group, you’re protected; if you don’t, you can’t expect any legal protection.

 

[Foxfyre]

Evidence of your claim please.

I have no problem with mandatory requirements for basic education for all of America's school children. I have no problem with testing the kids to be sure they can read, can do basic math, and have a reasonable understanding of English, science, history, and geography as age appropriate.

I have a HUGE problem with government having the sole legal ability to provide this education.

And certainly the record is very clear, no matter who is doing the evaluation, that children who are educated best are much more likely to be:

First: Homeschooled
Second: Private schooled
Thirdly: Parochial schooled
And lastly: Government schooled

Here ya go:

Almost all schools in America were private from colonial days until the second half of the 19th century.

Children learned through a variety of means including homeschool, tutors, apprenticeships, and at town schools funded voluntarily by parents and charities. Only rarely and in small amounts were public funds used.

Young children often learned in dame schools where a woman in the community would teach them in her home while she cooked and did housework. Older children sometimes attended prep school. Children of every economic status had access to some form of schooling.
Private schooling delivered widespread literacy during this period despite the fact that many children had to work to support their families. . . .

. . . . Since the government takeover, literacy has declined. For example, in 1840 2% of adults in Massachusetts were illiterate. In 1995, 19% were functionally illiterate and another 25% were below the level of literacy envisioned for high school graduates by the state Department of Education. . . .

Maybe We Would Be Amazed

The statistics on the difference between home school students and their public counter parts are revealing! According to Home School Legal Defense Association home school students out ranked public school students on their SAT scores in every area tested! The gap widen as the grade level of the students increased. If you want to stay up at night and worry take a few hours and read the government report recently published by the Institute for Education Statistics this publication is available for anyone who is interested in the statistical data about education today.

One of the aspects of the reports that I found interesting was that home school students ranked higher with total disregard of race or religion. Public school students showed a gap in ranking especially where race was identified. Otherwise, white students were receiving a better education but still falling behind their home school counterparts.
Home School vs Public School Statistics

It's true that controlling for socioeconomic status (SES) eliminates most of the public-school/private-school differences in achievement-test scores in math, reading, science and history. But even after you control for SES, Catholic schools run by holy orders (not those overseen by the local bishop) turned out to perform better than other schools studied. True, as the study says, there are only a small number of religious-order schools. But the data suggests that the type of school a kid attends does affect how well he will do — and that we could learn something from how holy orders run their schools. The Center on Education Policy, however, is an advocacy group for public schools, so it didn't look into why holy-order schools are succeeding where others fail.

The center also downplays another finding: While controlling for SES eliminated most public school/private-school differences in achievement test scores, it did not eliminate differences in the most widely used test of developed abilities, the SAT. (As I explained more fully here, developed abilities are those nurtured through schoolwork, reading, engaging a piece of art, and any other activities that spark critical thinking. Developed abilities aren't inborn traits but honed competencies, more akin to athletic skill gained through practice rather than raw IQ. By contrast, achievement tests measure the amount of material students have committed to memory in any particular field.) Combined with high-school grades, SAT scores are the best predictor of how kids will do in their freshman year of college. And the data in the new study shows that private-school students outperform public-school students on the SAT.

Read more: Are Private Schools Really Better? - TIME

Some statistics on homeschooled kids:
Homeschool World - News - Some Fascinating Facts About Homeschool vs Public School

More than 2 million U.S. students in grades K-12 were home-schooled in 2010, accounting for nearly 4 percent of all school-aged children, according to the National Home Education Research Institute. Studies suggest that those who go on to college will outperform their peers.

Students coming from a home school graduated college at a higher rate than their peers*—66.7 percent compared to 57.5 percent—and earned higher grade point averages along the way, according to a study that compared students at one doctoral university from 2004-2009.
Home-Schooled Teens Ripe for College - US News and World Report

 

[bodecea]

BO and his marxist minions are against homeschooling because they believe the STATE should be the only "approved" source of all knowledge.....AND because they are against individual and religious freedom.....

this is serious ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL and pro-socialism stuff.....

The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere – including the U.S. The DOJ is also claiming that there is no such thing as an “individual right” to religious liberty and conscience. AG Eric Holder and his gang of thugs at the DOJ believe that there are only “group” rights. If you belong to a group, you’re protected; if you don’t, you can’t expect any legal protection.

In Germany?

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. "Barack Obama’s Department of Justice ...considers a German homeschooling family a threat to America’s future.AG Eric Holder’s DOJ is arguing against providing asylum for Uwe and Hannelore Romeike, German parents who fled from Germany after they were threatened with jail, fines and the forcible removal of their children from their home. What was their crime? They were homeschooling their children!




2. The Germany family was initially granted asylum, but then the Obama Administration appealed the case to the Board of Immigration Appeals.

3. This case will not only impact this German home schooling family, but ... the right of parents to bring up their children without government intrusion.




4. The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere – including the U.S. The DOJ is also claiming that there is no such thing as an “individual right” to religious liberty and conscience.

5. AG Eric Holder and his gang of thugs at the DOJ believe that there are only “group” rights. If you belong to a group, you’re protected; if you don’t, you can’t expect any legal protection.

6. “The United States Supreme Court has made it very clear in the past that religious freedom is an individual right. Yet our current government does not seem to understand this. They only think of us as members of groups and factions. It is an extreme form of identity politics that directly threatens any understanding of individual liberty.”




7. ...the Obama DOJ is rejecting the fundamental principles of our Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which clearly deal with individual rights of religious liberty and conscience.

8. This isn’t surprising, given the collectivist mentality of Obama and his minions running the White House and the U.S. Senate. They are totalitarians – and they will do whatever they can to undermine our fundamental individual rights."
Obama ?Justice? Department Seeks To Block Asylum For German Homeschooling Family




I feel certain that even our Liberal friends will see this attack on individual liberty is a line that no democracy should cross.

Wait...aren't German schools frequently held up as being better than U.S. schools in educating students? Now they are bad?

Wait...."Vanilla is the most popular ice cream flavor, with 29 percent liking it the best. Chocolate is liked the best by only 8 percent!"
Do more people in the world like chocolate ice cream or vanilla ice cream? | ChaCha

You must believe that the government should mandate that only vanilla be sold.


What do you have against individual rights?

 

[theHawk]

1. "Barack Obama’s Department of Justice ...considers a German homeschooling family a threat to America’s future.AG Eric Holder’s DOJ is arguing against providing asylum for Uwe and Hannelore Romeike, German parents who fled from Germany after they were threatened with jail, fines and the forcible removal of their children from their home. What was their crime? They were homeschooling their children!




2. The Germany family was initially granted asylum, but then the Obama Administration appealed the case to the Board of Immigration Appeals.

3. This case will not only impact this German home schooling family, but ... the right of parents to bring up their children without government intrusion.




4. The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere – including the U.S. The DOJ is also claiming that there is no such thing as an “individual right” to religious liberty and conscience.

5. AG Eric Holder and his gang of thugs at the DOJ believe that there are only “group” rights. If you belong to a group, you’re protected; if you don’t, you can’t expect any legal protection.

6. “The United States Supreme Court has made it very clear in the past that religious freedom is an individual right. Yet our current government does not seem to understand this. They only think of us as members of groups and factions. It is an extreme form of identity politics that directly threatens any understanding of individual liberty.”




7. ...the Obama DOJ is rejecting the fundamental principles of our Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which clearly deal with individual rights of religious liberty and conscience.

8. This isn’t surprising, given the collectivist mentality of Obama and his minions running the White House and the U.S. Senate. They are totalitarians – and they will do whatever they can to undermine our fundamental individual rights."
Obama ?Justice? Department Seeks To Block Asylum For German Homeschooling Family




I feel certain that even our Liberal friends will see this attack on individual liberty is a line that no democracy should cross.

Wait...aren't German schools frequently held up as being better than U.S. schools in educating students? Now they are bad?

I'm sure German schools are better than US schools. That's not saying much considering how abysmal US public schools are.

This has nothing to do with how good or bad German schools are. The issue is the parents should have the right to choose their children's education.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Conservative Books and DVD's

all you everr seem to quote is right wing christain propaganda.

Now there is no proof god exsists so to believe in him is unscientific.


My son perfers science to myths

Religious experience doesn't count, I guess.

If you can't smack it with a hammer, it doesn't exist.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

BO and his marxist minions are against homeschooling because they believe the STATE should be the only "approved" source of all knowledge.....AND because they are against individual and religious freedom.....

this is serious ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL and pro-socialism stuff.....

The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere – including the U.S. The DOJ is also claiming that there is no such thing as an “individual right” to religious liberty and conscience. AG Eric Holder and his gang of thugs at the DOJ believe that there are only “group” rights. If you belong to a group, you’re protected; if you don’t, you can’t expect any legal protection.

In Germany?

wtf are you talking about....? the Germans came to the U.S. requesting asylum because they didn't want to go to jail, be fined, and lose their children for homeschooling them....they came to the USA seeking FREEDOM....(something you lefties don't seem to grasp...)

BO is using this to further his socialistic agenda....

 

[BlindBoo]

Uh oh....

"President Obama: ‘I am a Christian By Choice…The Precepts of Jesus Spoke to Me’"
President Obama: ?I am a Christian By Choice?The Precepts of Jesus Spoke to Me? - ABC News



He's gonna be crushed!

Doesn't make him a religionist.

Religionist - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

No wonder you don't agree with me....you don't understand your own link.

Religionist: " a person adhering to a religion;"

"especially : a religious zealot " (Which of course, the president is not.)

Why did you post only half of Websters?

Zealous Conservative who posts half-sies?

 

[Crackerjaxon]

are you going to change your bullying ways and quit accusing anyone who talks about what they believe and happen not to be christian of being ANTI christian?

It's obvious from your posts that you are a fundie atheist materialist who doesn't believe in God because you can't call him on the phone.