Is homeschooling a good solution?

[Eaglewings]

Might produce good grades for some but the real world isn't at home with mom.

ANd yet homeschooled kids kick ass in the real world. Like becoming Justices of the Supreme Court.

I have seen some very smart home schooled kids struggle emotionally at college at first and then they take off and do very well.
Many home schooled spend hours with other kids doing art, or other special projects.

It takes someone that is organized, and on it...I could never have done it, I am way too social.

.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I am "right wing" but I like asking my kids their opinions and what THEY think is the best option etc. I prefer to guide them instead of DICTATING to them. I have expectations that were well known when they were VERY young and they have been repeated so they know what we expect. So far no reason to force anything on them....odd how kids usually make the RIGHT choice when allowed to do it themselves I am more strict with their clothing options than anything else lol

You have to realize - liberals play a bunch of misinformation cards (like your children will lack social skills, or they will be "brainwashed") because homeschooling is one of those things that scares the living hell out of them. Indoctrination is the only thing they have going for them. An objective person, when provided the facts, will choose conservatism every time. If the American people start moving towards homeschooling, the dependent class will have no way of convincing the young and impressionable why failed liberal socialism is the way to go.

Yes, I spend all day long indoctrinating my students in the wonders of socialist Algebra, which sounds like it should be a terrorist group.

Most parents cannot teach their way out of a wet paper bag because they never learned it themselves.

If that is not the case, I say home school to your little hearts content! My own granddaughter is being home schooled.

I just get pissed off when people try to use bogus statistics to back up their arguments. Anyone with a knowledge of statistics would know that their data is flawed.

For starters, there is nothing "flawed" about the data.

Now, as for the rest of this, you are simply completely misunderstanding. I don't know of a parent who can't homeschool their children through grade school. I mean, guess who taught my children to speak? My wife and I. Guess who taught them their colors?? My wife and I. Guess who taught them to count? My wife and I. Teaching small children the basics is so easy, anybody can do it. Anybody.

Now, once they get into middle school and high school and the material gets a little more challenging, it's still not that big of deal. For starters, the state provides material for each lesson that the parent goes over which shows how to teach the lesson. If that's not enough (and in many cases, it's probably not), the internet wields endless volumes of information - including videos on YouTube which have visual aids. If that's still not enough, many parents hire tutors who specialize in that subject for that grade. Finally, not all home schooling is done by parents or tutors. Many states actually offer online learning. So the student is still learning from a government educator, but from their home. Their are a multitude of options.

We live in the technology era my friend. Learning extends far beyond brick and mortar buildings these days.

Nothing flawed about the data? Look at some of the writings by Gerald Bracey on how educational statistics are manipulated Home schooling advocates are some of the most guilty.

You are speaking from your own experience and that is NOT the norm. Far too many states leave just about everything up to the home schoolers because they have been brow beaten into submission by lobbyists and the courts.

Ok - lets say that's true. Lets say you're a right. Let me ask you an honest question (I'm truly not being sarcastic here): so what? Lets say that the states have been "brow beaten into submission" - isn't that the will of the people winning? Why should the government have control over my child? The people are supposed to control their own lives in America. That's why this nation was founded and that's how this nation was founded. So where do you, or a Democrat, or anyone derive the power to dictate to me how and when my child should be educated? If I want to homeschool them and I don't do a good job with it at all, how is that any of your business or the governments business? Shouldn't we err on the side of freedom?

Let me leave you with one of my favorite quotes about this issue from Thomas Jefferson:

“It is better to tolerate the rare instance of a parent refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings and ideas by the forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of the father.”

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on this if you are willing to have a serious and honest discussion.

Winning? That is the result of a few whackos getting their way, not the will of the majority.

Why should the government have control over your child? How about it is in the public interest to ensure your child has a satisfactory education so they will not become a ward of the state?

Thomas Jefferson was an elitist hypocrite when it came to education. Nothing more needs to said about that misguided statement.

 

[P@triot]

ITT I see a lot of people who lack a basic education wishing to pass on their lack of a basic education to their children rather than giving their children the chance to be educated, form their own opinions, and succeed in life.

If your world view is so fragile as to be defeated by basic education...it may mean that your world view is wrong...not that basic education is wrong.

Or it may be that the more liberals have gotten involved in education, the more it has failed. Since Jimmy Carter created the Department of Education, we have seen national scores plummet. So the "lack of basic education" I see is from people like you who have no idea what they are talking about, are mindless little minions to the system, refuse to question their masters, and are too lazy to take responsibility for their children - preferring instead to have the government raise them.

Really? Which scores? What is your metric for making that determination? What has the Department of Education done to cause this so-called plummet?

They've unconstitutionally involved themselves in an issue that they have no business involving themselves in and which they are not designed to over see.

So what have they done? Well, they've illegally passed out federal dollars to get schools systems hooked (like crack cocaine) and then threatened to withhold those dollars in the future if the school systems did not incorporate their curriculum.

 

[bripat9643]

Education 3.36
Foreign Language 3.34
English 3.33
Music 3.30
Religion 3.22
Biology 3.02
Psychology 2.98
Economics 2.95
Engineering 2.90
Math 2.90
Chemistry 2.78
What's the Average College GPA? By Major?

Education has the highest because it's the easiest. Your numbers only confirm that education majors are dumb. Engineering is one of the hardest majors, which is why the aver GPA is much lower.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I don't believe liberal parents should be forced to make their children attend conservative public schools in red states and vice versa.

I agree. People should be allowed to tend to the educate of their children as they see fit. How does the US Department of Education advance this notion?

The U.S. Education Department was little to no impact s home schooling is a state issue.

But what does US DE do for school choice?

You have school choice in where your children attend school by where you live. They have no impact whatsoever.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't believe liberal parents should be forced to make their children attend conservative public schools in red states and vice versa.

I agree. People should be allowed to tend to the educate of their children as they see fit. How does the US Department of Education advance this notion?

The U.S. Education Department was little to no impact s home schooling is a state issue.

But what does US DE do for school choice?

You have school choice in where your children attend school by where you live. They have no impact whatsoever.

That's like saying if the government passed a law forcing you to shop at Walmart, you still have the choice of moving to where there's a Walmart you like.

 

[P@triot]

You have to realize - liberals play a bunch of misinformation cards (like your children will lack social skills, or they will be "brainwashed") because homeschooling is one of those things that scares the living hell out of them. Indoctrination is the only thing they have going for them. An objective person, when provided the facts, will choose conservatism every time. If the American people start moving towards homeschooling, the dependent class will have no way of convincing the young and impressionable why failed liberal socialism is the way to go.

Yes, I spend all day long indoctrinating my students in the wonders of socialist Algebra, which sounds like it should be a terrorist group.

Most parents cannot teach their way out of a wet paper bag because they never learned it themselves.

If that is not the case, I say home school to your little hearts content! My own granddaughter is being home schooled.

I just get pissed off when people try to use bogus statistics to back up their arguments. Anyone with a knowledge of statistics would know that their data is flawed.

For starters, there is nothing "flawed" about the data.

Now, as for the rest of this, you are simply completely misunderstanding. I don't know of a parent who can't homeschool their children through grade school. I mean, guess who taught my children to speak? My wife and I. Guess who taught them their colors?? My wife and I. Guess who taught them to count? My wife and I. Teaching small children the basics is so easy, anybody can do it. Anybody.

Now, once they get into middle school and high school and the material gets a little more challenging, it's still not that big of deal. For starters, the state provides material for each lesson that the parent goes over which shows how to teach the lesson. If that's not enough (and in many cases, it's probably not), the internet wields endless volumes of information - including videos on YouTube which have visual aids. If that's still not enough, many parents hire tutors who specialize in that subject for that grade. Finally, not all home schooling is done by parents or tutors. Many states actually offer online learning. So the student is still learning from a government educator, but from their home. Their are a multitude of options.

We live in the technology era my friend. Learning extends far beyond brick and mortar buildings these days.

Nothing flawed about the data? Look at some of the writings by Gerald Bracey on how educational statistics are manipulated Home schooling advocates are some of the most guilty.

You are speaking from your own experience and that is NOT the norm. Far too many states leave just about everything up to the home schoolers because they have been brow beaten into submission by lobbyists and the courts.

Ok - lets say that's true. Lets say you're a right. Let me ask you an honest question (I'm truly not being sarcastic here): so what? Lets say that the states have been "brow beaten into submission" - isn't that the will of the people winning? Why should the government have control over my child? The people are supposed to control their own lives in America. That's why this nation was founded and that's how this nation was founded. So where do you, or a Democrat, or anyone derive the power to dictate to me how and when my child should be educated? If I want to homeschool them and I don't do a good job with it at all, how is that any of your business or the governments business? Shouldn't we err on the side of freedom?

Let me leave you with one of my favorite quotes about this issue from Thomas Jefferson:

“It is better to tolerate the rare instance of a parent refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings and ideas by the forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of the father.”

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on this if you are willing to have a serious and honest discussion.

Winning? That is the result of a few whackos getting their way, not the will of the majority.

Why should the government have control over your child? How about it is in the public interest to ensure your child has a satisfactory education so they will not become a ward of the state?

Thomas Jefferson was an elitist hypocrite when it came to education. Nothing more needs to said about that misguided statement.

So there you go - typical left-wing communism. Your child needs to serve the state. Three major flaws with your view:

1.) It violates everything that the U.S. was built on (freedom and choice)

2.) You people created the "ward of the state". Stop the socialism, and you won't have to worry about future generations needing it. If it doesn't exist, it's not a problem.

3.) Anyone can be educated. Once a child turns 18, they are officially and adult and free to make their own decisions. If I, as a parent, didn't educate them properly, why don't you public school educators allow them to attend public school starting at 18 and educate them on any and all curriculum that was missed at home?

Simple solutions to simple problems. But you know why you're not interested in any of this? Because it's not about education for the left. It's about power and control. The fact that you dismiss one of the greatest founders of America, one of the greatest minds to ever step foot on this planet, and someone who experienced oppression first hand just goes to show that you're not the least bit interested in solutions based on freedom and the free-market. You're simply interested in imposing your will on others.

 

[Moonglow]

Education 3.36
Foreign Language 3.34
English 3.33
Music 3.30
Religion 3.22
Biology 3.02
Psychology 2.98
Economics 2.95
Engineering 2.90
Math 2.90
Chemistry 2.78
What's the Average College GPA? By Major?

Education has the highest because it's the easiest. Your numbers only confirm that education majors are dumb. Engineering is one of the hardest majors, which is why the aver GPA is much lower.

Eh, it depends on the person...some barley pass engineering, while others ace it..I still had to finish the real operation of designs that engineers put on paper, and make them work..The engineer didn't know how to..

 

[P@triot]

Winning? That is the result of a few whackos getting their way, not the will of the majority.

This is such a typical asinine liberal communist view. They simply can't accept when the will of the people wins in America. If a liberal doesn't get their way, then somehow a "few whacko's" magically overthrew all of society and won. It's such a idiotic statement it's hard to believe that someone would actually say it, much less an educator.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I don't believe liberal parents should be forced to make their children attend conservative public schools in red states and vice versa.

Home schooling is great if you want to raise a child with no exposure to any other ideas than your own,

Most people do not have the capability to home school because their own education is lacking or it is not feasible because of work schedules, etc.

If you can do it, great! If not, don't try to use it as a dodge for mandatory attendance laws or you will just be raising another idiot dependent on social services.

And yet somehow homeschooled kids kick ass on virtually every measure. For the record I homeschooled my older son. All the homeschooled kids I ever met, even where their parents were hardly intellects, were polite and could interact well with adults.

Really? How do they kick ass? Did you bother to test the special education student whose mother decided to home school her child while she was lacking even a high school diploma? Of course not!

Look up self-selection bias.

Home school children do not take standardized tests and have the option to take the ACT and SAT. Many public school students are required to take those tests, whether they ever intend to go to college or not. I have watched students bubble in the sheet randomly and then take a nap.

How well do you think they do, when compared to home school students who take the tests in order to go to college?

blahblahblah spoken like a true educational establlishment drone. Not invented here, therefore no good.
Homeschool students win or come in tops in every contest, from spelling bees to science fairs. They excel in colleges and are highly sought after for that reason.
Public schools are expensive failures whose managers and workers are always looking for excuses for their poor performance.

You call me a drone and you spout that garbage? What does this crap about "not invented here" have to do with anything?

Home schooled students winning those competitions are usually from wealthy immigrant families whose parents who have the time and money to give them everything they need.

For every one of them you can trot out, I can show you students who come to my class from being home schooled for years who read several years below grade-level, cannot add, subtract, multiply or divide, but have to be placed in high school math classes just the same.

 

[initforme]

Most engineers I know make a lot more than they are worth.

 

[initforme]

T Jefferson owned slaves...I cannot put great near his name. He wasn't so bright.

 

[dblack]

I don't believe liberal parents should be forced to make their children attend conservative public schools in red states and vice versa.

Home schooling is great if you want to raise a child with no exposure to any other ideas than your own,

It's also great if you want the opposite. The key is, it's great for parents who want more control over how their children are educated.

 

[P@triot]

Or it may be that the more liberals have gotten involved in education, the more it has failed. Since Jimmy Carter created the Department of Education, we have seen national scores plummet. So the "lack of basic education" I see is from people like you who have no idea what they are talking about, are mindless little minions to the system, refuse to question their masters, and are too lazy to take responsibility for their children - preferring instead to have the government raise them.

Seriously? Okay prove me wrong. Point to the 1st world nation that doesn't offer any public schooling that is outperforming the US.

You think that they are teaching modern feminist theory or something in high school...you do realize that those kids are just learning to bare basics of knowledge in our world right? Nobody is going to be asking them to stain a sample of microorganisms, code an elaborate application, or further economic theory or research. These kids are learning basic crap like calculus, (basic) chemistry, and English literature.

Again, if your world view is so fragile as to be defeated by a BASIC education, then your world view is probably weak.

Again - since liberals have gotten more involved with education and since they have moved more and more control over it to the federal government, we have seen performance plummet. That is just a simple fact.

I don't understand your question above because it completely supports what I said. Just about every other nation is outperforming our public school systems. Which is exactly why so many parents are turning to homeschooling. And the results are astounding. Homeschooled children are crushing public school children in every metric.

Just about every nation is outperforming our public schools...I'm not actually doubting that. What I am pointing out is HOW MANY OF THEM DO NOT HAVE PUBLIC SCHOOLS? Do you think that all of their children are homeschooled or something? Also, you do realize that most of those nations (except maybe China off the top of my head) has actually MORE liberal views / education than our own nation. If anything, the fact that you point towards other nations as being better only leads to the conclusion that you would like to mirror their systems, which enforces FAR more liberal views than our own.

I don't actually doubt that homeschooled children crush public schooled children. I'd agree with that. The issue is that homeschooling is not a realistic answer on a broad basis for our population. It is a great answer if the kid's parents are already well-educated and financially well off or if the kid is an exceptional academic star. However, looking towards homeschooling as a broad stroked answer to our nation's educational problems brings us BACKWARDS rather than forwards. Do you really want for half of the working population with families to quit their jobs in order to educate their children? Do you realize what you would be calling upon in order for this to happen?

The clear answer is to encourage a BETTER public education rather than encouraging our work force to quit their jobs to haphazardly educate their children in a manner they deem best.

First of all - this is a very narrow view of the entire issue. And I'll address that as I go.

Second - I'm not advocating either chose. I happen to LOVE homeschooling. However, I'm not trying to force that on society. If a parent wants to send their child to public school - great. I'm a Constitutional conservative. Ergo, I'm all about freedom and choice. I would never support placing a gun to a parents head and forcing them to homeschool.

Third - as far as families arranging for homeschooling, this is where you have an extremely narrow view. For starters, I would advocate that parents do whatever is in their children's best interest. If that means one of the parents quitting their jobs and living in a smaller house or whatever, so be it. Isn't your children more important than a career or material items? I know mine are to me. Furthermore, no parent has to quit their job to homeschool. There are enough hours after work and on the weekends to home school. A child might have to "attend" school from 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m., but it's easily doable. Also, there are retired grandparents that can handle it. I had a manager whose wife homeschooled their grandchildren. There are endless options.

My understanding was that the individuals defending homeschooling were looking towards it as a broad based "solution" to the perceived "liberal" education that was being provided by our public schools. If that is not your position then i apologize for misunderstanding. I agree that homeschooling should remain an option, and, in some cases, should even be encouraged. However, I would like to re-iterate that, implemented on a broad basis, I believe this to be highly detrimental to the American economy rather than beneficial.

I agree that parents should do what is in their child's best interest. It is with that in mind that I am actually advising AGAINST homeschooling (again, on a broad basis). How many individuals do you know that are educated enough, financially stable enough, dedicated enough, and experienced enough to provide a similar educational experience to the one provided by our public schools? I'll be honest, myself included, I know of nobody (not even teacher friends in the public school system). Why? Well, I'll be damned if I can say that I remember and can aptly teach the subject I learned...from biology to physics to latin (yeah, I choose a horrible foreign language) to even some of the later mathematics or nuanced points of English...I'd be either arrogant or delusional to say I'm as qualified as the individuals in our school system. I feel like if a parent REALLY wants to help their child be educated they will encourage them to study and engage with them (supplement their education) rather than try to teach them everything themselves.

Well for what's its worth - if you scroll above you'll see I address this already. Nobody is qualified to teach every subject. However, there are a slew of resources available to alleviate that problem.

We live in the technology age - we're far beyond brick and mortar schools at this point. There are tutors, there is state provided materials, there is online schooling, there is the internet, there are public libraries. Anybody can learn anything for free if they are determined enough.

Did you know that one of the Ivy League schools (I want to say Harvard, but please don't hold me to that) put their entire curriculum online for free? You can take every single course that Ivy League offers free of charge.

I personally believe that homeschooling is the broad-based solution for improving education. However, I would never force that on anyone. I fully support any parent who believe a public school education is the best option for their child. Likewise, I fully support any parent who believes that a private school or catholic school education is the best option. At the end of the day, we need to restore freedom to America and let the parent decide what they feel is in the best interest of their child(ren).

 

[bripat9643]

Education 3.36
Foreign Language 3.34
English 3.33
Music 3.30
Religion 3.22
Biology 3.02
Psychology 2.98
Economics 2.95
Engineering 2.90
Math 2.90
Chemistry 2.78
What's the Average College GPA? By Major?

Education has the highest because it's the easiest. Your numbers only confirm that education majors are dumb. Engineering is one of the hardest majors, which is why the aver GPA is much lower.

Eh, it depends on the person...some barley pass engineering, while others ace it..I still had to finish the real operation of designs that engineers put on paper, and make them work..The engineer didn't know how to..

Very few students ace engineering. Engineering school is as competitive as medical school. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

 

[Moonglow]

Education 3.36
Foreign Language 3.34
English 3.33
Music 3.30
Religion 3.22
Biology 3.02
Psychology 2.98
Economics 2.95
Engineering 2.90
Math 2.90
Chemistry 2.78
What's the Average College GPA? By Major?

Education has the highest because it's the easiest. Your numbers only confirm that education majors are dumb. Engineering is one of the hardest majors, which is why the aver GPA is much lower.

Eh, it depends on the person...some barley pass engineering, while others ace it..I still had to finish the real operation of designs that engineers put on paper, and make them work..The engineer didn't know how to..

Very few students ace engineering. Engineering school is as competitive as medical school. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Electronic engineering at Univ of Arkanass...yes I do...I've also had to train architects...Nobody comes out of college knowing everything that is done in the real world...

 

[initforme]

My son is an engineer. He didn't have a hard time getting his degree.

 

[P@triot]

T Jefferson owned slaves...I cannot put great near his name. He wasn't so bright.

Once again showcasing astounding ignorance of facts and history.

Thomas Jefferson vehemently opposed slavery. He introduced legislation in the Virginia State Legislature to end slavery even before the U.S. declared independence from Britain. He then fought for it the rest of his life at the federal level in America.

So why did he have slaves? Because in the 1700's and 1800's (before emancipation) it was against the law to free slaves. And Thomas Jefferson was a law abiding citizen. It's the same reason George Washington had slaves despite vehemently opposing slavery. George Washington's slaves were treated so well (none of them were allowed to be hit) that they wept when he passed away.

Seriously man - why don't you do any research before simply spouting off? Do you have any idea what you look like with all of this nonsense you are posting? It's embarrassing for you and you have zero credibility now.

 

[Moonglow]

My son is an engineer. He didn't have a hard time getting his degree.

The hardest part is that you have to wait to get to the core engineering phase of the education..I entered engineer schooling and they would not credit military training in electronics or electrical courses I had already had....5 years is too long for damn degree..

 

[bripat9643]

My son is an engineer. He didn't have a hard time getting his degree.

Must have gone to a mediocre engineering school.