Is homeschooling a good solution?

[P@triot]

ITT I see a lot of people who lack a basic education wishing to pass on their lack of a basic education to their children rather than giving their children the chance to be educated, form their own opinions, and succeed in life.

If your world view is so fragile as to be defeated by basic education...it may mean that your world view is wrong...not that basic education is wrong.

Or it may be that the more liberals have gotten involved in education, the more it has failed. Since Jimmy Carter created the Department of Education, we have seen national scores plummet. So the "lack of basic education" I see is from people like you who have no idea what they are talking about, are mindless little minions to the system, refuse to question their masters, and are too lazy to take responsibility for their children - preferring instead to have the government raise them.

Really? Which scores? What is your metric for making that determination? What has the Department of Education done to cause this so-called plummet?

They've unconstitutionally involved themselves in an issue that they have no business involving themselves in and which they are not designed to over see.

So what have they done? Well, they've illegally passed out federal dollars to get schools systems hooked (like crack cocaine) and then threatened to withhold those dollars in the future if the school systems did not incorporate their curriculum.

Do you have any idea why the Department of Education was formed in response to?

States who refused to institute the changes needed to improve their state's educational programs. Congress wanted oversight to keep these states in line. As time has gone by, improvement has been made and their influence has waned.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things we probably could do away with the Department of education, but using them as a scapegoat is just disingenuous.

Well that is completely nonsensical. The federal government has zero authority to (and I quote) "keep these state in line". The federal government is granted 18 specific enumerated powers in the Constitution and education is not one of them.

Furthermore, you're completely making this shit up as Congress wasn't even involved in the creation of the Department of Education. It was created by Jimmy Carter himself.

The fact that you're not even aware of how it was created - and worse - that you have no idea that the federal government is not legally authorized to dictate to states to "improve their educational programs" just goes to show that you're not qualified to be involved in this discussion.

It doesn't matter what liberals want or demand. The U.S. Constitution is the law. And until such time as it is amended, anything beyond those 18 enumerated powers that the federal government engages in is 100% illegal. It's amazing the criminal activity that you engage in and support. Shameful. And to think you are tasked with education our youth. No wonder so many people are turning to home schooling.

 

[Dale Smith]

For starters, there is nothing "flawed" about the data.

Now, as for the rest of this, you are simply completely misunderstanding. I don't know of a parent who can't homeschool their children through grade school. I mean, guess who taught my children to speak? My wife and I. Guess who taught them their colors?? My wife and I. Guess who taught them to count? My wife and I. Teaching small children the basics is so easy, anybody can do it. Anybody.

Now, once they get into middle school and high school and the material gets a little more challenging, it's still not that big of deal. For starters, the state provides material for each lesson that the parent goes over which shows how to teach the lesson. If that's not enough (and in many cases, it's probably not), the internet wields endless volumes of information - including videos on YouTube which have visual aids. If that's still not enough, many parents hire tutors who specialize in that subject for that grade. Finally, not all home schooling is done by parents or tutors. Many states actually offer online learning. So the student is still learning from a government educator, but from their home. Their are a multitude of options.

We live in the technology era my friend. Learning extends far beyond brick and mortar buildings these days.

Nothing flawed about the data? Look at some of the writings by Gerald Bracey on how educational statistics are manipulated Home schooling advocates are some of the most guilty.

You are speaking from your own experience and that is NOT the norm. Far too many states leave just about everything up to the home schoolers because they have been brow beaten into submission by lobbyists and the courts.

Ok - lets say that's true. Lets say you're a right. Let me ask you an honest question (I'm truly not being sarcastic here): so what? Lets say that the states have been "brow beaten into submission" - isn't that the will of the people winning? Why should the government have control over my child? The people are supposed to control their own lives in America. That's why this nation was founded and that's how this nation was founded. So where do you, or a Democrat, or anyone derive the power to dictate to me how and when my child should be educated? If I want to homeschool them and I don't do a good job with it at all, how is that any of your business or the governments business? Shouldn't we err on the side of freedom?

Let me leave you with one of my favorite quotes about this issue from Thomas Jefferson:

“It is better to tolerate the rare instance of a parent refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings and ideas by the forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of the father.”

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on this if you are willing to have a serious and honest discussion.

Winning? That is the result of a few whackos getting their way, not the will of the majority.

Why should the government have control over your child? How about it is in the public interest to ensure your child has a satisfactory education so they will not become a ward of the state?

Thomas Jefferson was an elitist hypocrite when it came to education. Nothing more needs to said about that misguided statement.

So there you go - typical left-wing communism. Your child needs to serve the state. Three major flaws with your view:

1.) It violates everything that the U.S. was built on (freedom and choice)

2.) You people created the "ward of the state". Stop the socialism, and you won't have to worry about future generations needing it. If it doesn't exist, it's not a problem.

3.) Anyone can be educated. Once a child turns 18, they are officially and adult and free to make their own decisions. If I, as a parent, didn't educate them properly, why don't you public school educators allow them to attend public school starting at 18 and educate them on any and all curriculum that was missed at home?

Simple solutions to simple problems. But you know why you're not interested in any of this? Because it's not about education for the left. It's about power and control. The fact that you dismiss one of the greatest founders of America, one of the greatest minds to ever step foot on this planet, and someone who experienced oppression first hand just goes to show that you're not the least bit interested in solutions based on freedom and the free-market. You're simply interested in imposing your will on others.

I'm sorry, but your post just reeks with the ignorance you are basing it on.

You really want people to be free to not educate their children? We will be overrun with morons in less than a generation. The Democrats will have no problem filling their voting rolls with intellectually challenged individuals. don't we have enough already?

I have no idea what you are yapping about. I created? No. You are spitballing answers.

We already have programs for people who didn't receive an education. It is called a GED. I am sure you have heard of them as you probably possess one or have lots of friends who do.

I am about as far left as Rush Limbaugh. What you see as liberalism is because you have been taught that any criticism of education that is opposed by anyone, they must be a liberal. That's far from the truth i am afraid to say. Liberals and conservatives are both to blame for the problems in education. I just happen to have a front-row seat and the education on the topic to understand it far better than anyone else.[/QUOTE

We are already overrun with morons and they went through the public school system. Mark Dice does these incredibly sad videos where he questions college aged kids about basic shit that every kid should know by heart....like which countries were the Axis powers during WWII.......the stupidity of these "college" students made me sick to my stomach.

 

[Dale Smith]

ITT I see a lot of people who lack a basic education wishing to pass on their lack of a basic education to their children rather than giving their children the chance to be educated, form their own opinions, and succeed in life.

If your world view is so fragile as to be defeated by basic education...it may mean that your world view is wrong...not that basic education is wrong.

Or it may be that the more liberals have gotten involved in education, the more it has failed. Since Jimmy Carter created the Department of Education, we have seen national scores plummet. So the "lack of basic education" I see is from people like you who have no idea what they are talking about, are mindless little minions to the system, refuse to question their masters, and are too lazy to take responsibility for their children - preferring instead to have the government raise them.

Really? Which scores? What is your metric for making that determination? What has the Department of Education done to cause this so-called plummet?

They've unconstitutionally involved themselves in an issue that they have no business involving themselves in and which they are not designed to over see.

So what have they done? Well, they've illegally passed out federal dollars to get schools systems hooked (like crack cocaine) and then threatened to withhold those dollars in the future if the school systems did not incorporate their curriculum.

Do you have any idea why the Department of Education was formed in response to?

States who refused to institute the changes needed to improve their state's educational programs. Congress wanted oversight to keep these states in line. As time has gone by, improvement has been made and their influence has waned.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things we probably could do away with the Department of education, but using them as a scapegoat is just disingenuous.

Well that is completely nonsensical. The federal government has zero authority to (and I quote) "keep these state in line". The federal government is granted 18 specific enumerated powers in the Constitution and education is not one of them.

Furthermore, you're completely making this shit up as Congress wasn't even involved in the creation of the Department of Education. It was created by Jimmy Carter himself.

The fact that you're not even aware of how it was created - and worse - that you have no idea that the federal government is not legally authorized to dictate to states to "improve their educational programs" just goes to show that you're not qualified to be involved in this discussion.

It doesn't matter what liberals want or demand. The U.S. Constitution is the law. And until such time as it is amended, anything beyond those 18 enumerated powers that the federal government engages in is 100% illegal. It's amazing the criminal activity that you engage in and support. Shameful. And to think you are tasked with education our youth. No wonder so many people are turning to home schooling.

Ouch............damn, you just bitch slapped him across the entire world wide web.........

 

[P@triot]

Or it may be that the more liberals have gotten involved in education, the more it has failed. Since Jimmy Carter created the Department of Education, we have seen national scores plummet. So the "lack of basic education" I see is from people like you who have no idea what they are talking about, are mindless little minions to the system, refuse to question their masters, and are too lazy to take responsibility for their children - preferring instead to have the government raise them.

Really? Which scores? What is your metric for making that determination? What has the Department of Education done to cause this so-called plummet?

They've unconstitutionally involved themselves in an issue that they have no business involving themselves in and which they are not designed to over see.

So what have they done? Well, they've illegally passed out federal dollars to get schools systems hooked (like crack cocaine) and then threatened to withhold those dollars in the future if the school systems did not incorporate their curriculum.

Do you have any idea why the Department of Education was formed in response to?

States who refused to institute the changes needed to improve their state's educational programs. Congress wanted oversight to keep these states in line. As time has gone by, improvement has been made and their influence has waned.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things we probably could do away with the Department of education, but using them as a scapegoat is just disingenuous.

Well that is completely nonsensical. The federal government has zero authority to (and I quote) "keep these state in line". The federal government is granted 18 specific enumerated powers in the Constitution and education is not one of them.

Furthermore, you're completely making this shit up as Congress wasn't even involved in the creation of the Department of Education. It was created by Jimmy Carter himself.

The fact that you're not even aware of how it was created - and worse - that you have no idea that the federal government is not legally authorized to dictate to states to "improve their educational programs" just goes to show that you're not qualified to be involved in this discussion.

It doesn't matter what liberals want or demand. The U.S. Constitution is the law. And until such time as it is amended, anything beyond those 18 enumerated powers that the federal government engages in is 100% illegal. It's amazing the criminal activity that you engage in and support. Shameful. And to think you are tasked with education our youth. No wonder so many people are turning to home schooling.

Ouch............damn, you just bitch slapped him across the entire world wide web.........

Considering how completely uneducated the left is about history, the U.S. Constitution, and government, well...it's not terribly difficult to do.

How sad though when you think about. Millions of men and women have died to give us this great nation, our freedom, and that amazing document granting us all of our rights. And the left is not only to lazy to learn about all of it, they actually have contempt for it and look for ways to circumvent it. My heart breaks for all of those people who gave their lives for these ungrateful liberals.

 

[Dale Smith]

Really? Which scores? What is your metric for making that determination? What has the Department of Education done to cause this so-called plummet?

They've unconstitutionally involved themselves in an issue that they have no business involving themselves in and which they are not designed to over see.

So what have they done? Well, they've illegally passed out federal dollars to get schools systems hooked (like crack cocaine) and then threatened to withhold those dollars in the future if the school systems did not incorporate their curriculum.

Do you have any idea why the Department of Education was formed in response to?

States who refused to institute the changes needed to improve their state's educational programs. Congress wanted oversight to keep these states in line. As time has gone by, improvement has been made and their influence has waned.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things we probably could do away with the Department of education, but using them as a scapegoat is just disingenuous.

Well that is completely nonsensical. The federal government has zero authority to (and I quote) "keep these state in line". The federal government is granted 18 specific enumerated powers in the Constitution and education is not one of them.

Furthermore, you're completely making this shit up as Congress wasn't even involved in the creation of the Department of Education. It was created by Jimmy Carter himself.

The fact that you're not even aware of how it was created - and worse - that you have no idea that the federal government is not legally authorized to dictate to states to "improve their educational programs" just goes to show that you're not qualified to be involved in this discussion.

It doesn't matter what liberals want or demand. The U.S. Constitution is the law. And until such time as it is amended, anything beyond those 18 enumerated powers that the federal government engages in is 100% illegal. It's amazing the criminal activity that you engage in and support. Shameful. And to think you are tasked with education our youth. No wonder so many people are turning to home schooling.

Ouch............damn, you just bitch slapped him across the entire world wide web.........

Considering how completely uneducated the left is about history, the U.S. Constitution, and government, well...it's not terribly difficult to do.

How sad though when you think about. Millions of men and women have died to give us this great nation, our freedom, and that amazing document granting us all of our rights. And the left is not only to lazy to learn about all of it, they actually have contempt for it and look for ways to circumvent it. My heart breaks for all of those people who gave their lives for these ungrateful liberals.

I hear ya....the global elites that have hijacked what was once a great nation that stood for something hasn't had a better useful idiot than the left/liberals. The liberals and leftards have railed against the very elites that they claimed to be fighting against while being instrumental in helping them get to the place that we are now. Make no mistake, I have no love for the neocons that have hijacked the rightwing because at the end of the day, they work hand in glove....but the globalists started using the left like a crack whore starting during the days of FDR.....seriously, sometimes I wish I didn't know the things that I know.......much happier when I was deaf, dumb and blind.,...

 

[bripat9643]

BINGO!

That's also the reason they hate vouchers. When parents can choose their schools, they don't have to put their kid in a school where he will be pumped full of leftwing propaganda.

Every person in this country has school choice. Move to the area that has the best schools. I did it every time I moved in the military for my kids. If you can't, that is your choice!

Bullshit. They don't have a choice about paying for the failed government schools.

Failed? That word gets tossed around so much it has no meaning. I doubt you could quantify what constitutes a "failed" school.

A failed school system is one that graduates students who are illiterate. How about that definition?

Which ones would that be? The high school where I teach graduates about 95%of our students. None are illiterate.

Many states require competency tests to demonstrate what they have learned. How do you explain those people?

How do you explain inner city schools that fail 60% of their students? Why shouldn't parents of children in these schools have the option of sending their kids elsewhere? The don't have the option of moving to some tony suburb where the real estate prices are in the stratosphere.

 

[bripat9643]

I agree. People should be allowed to tend to the educate of their children as they see fit. How does the US Department of Education advance this notion?

The U.S. Education Department was little to no impact s home schooling is a state issue.

But what does US DE do for school choice?

You have school choice in where your children attend school by where you live. They have no impact whatsoever.

That's like saying if the government passed a law forcing you to shop at Walmart, you still have the choice of moving to where there's a Walmart you like.

Try again. There was no real thought put into that post.

Nope. That analogy is exact. With government schooling, everywhere you go, the same company is providing the service.

 

[Unkotare]

I could not teach in today's world. Not for the pittance they are paid for putting up with today's entitled youth. I would never forego my earning potential to do that. Why anyone does is bizarre. Its so much easier to make double in the private sector for half the effort.

"pittance?" They hardly do any work. They have a 6 hour work day and they only work about 180 days out of the year. They get paid far more than they are worth, if you ask me.

Utterly ignorant. ^^^

 

[Unkotare]

Teachers hardly do any work? Step in and do it then. Forego a decent salary and be a great teacher and be a part of the solution. This is your chance. You can teach how great america is.... Indoctrinate and create little patriots.

Education majors have the lowest entry scores of any major. If they could do my job, they would be doing it. I make more money precisely because not that many people can do what I do. Virtually anyone can teach kids to read, on the other hand.

Full of shit ^^^^^^

 

[frigidweirdo]

ITT I see a lot of people who lack a basic education wishing to pass on their lack of a basic education to their children rather than giving their children the chance to be educated, form their own opinions, and succeed in life.

If your world view is so fragile as to be defeated by basic education...it may mean that your world view is wrong...not that basic education is wrong.

Or it may be that the more liberals have gotten involved in education, the more it has failed. Since Jimmy Carter created the Department of Education, we have seen national scores plummet. So the "lack of basic education" I see is from people like you who have no idea what they are talking about, are mindless little minions to the system, refuse to question their masters, and are too lazy to take responsibility for their children - preferring instead to have the government raise them.

Really? Which scores? What is your metric for making that determination? What has the Department of Education done to cause this so-called plummet?

They've unconstitutionally involved themselves in an issue that they have no business involving themselves in and which they are not designed to over see.

So what have they done? Well, they've illegally passed out federal dollars to get schools systems hooked (like crack cocaine) and then threatened to withhold those dollars in the future if the school systems did not incorporate their curriculum.

Do you have any idea why the Department of Education was formed in response to?

States who refused to institute the changes needed to improve their state's educational programs. Congress wanted oversight to keep these states in line. As time has gone by, improvement has been made and their influence has waned.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things we probably could do away with the Department of education, but using them as a scapegoat is just disingenuous.

Well that is completely nonsensical. The federal government has zero authority to (and I quote) "keep these state in line". The federal government is granted 18 specific enumerated powers in the Constitution and education is not one of them.

Furthermore, you're completely making this shit up as Congress wasn't even involved in the creation of the Department of Education. It was created by Jimmy Carter himself.

The fact that you're not even aware of how it was created - and worse - that you have no idea that the federal government is not legally authorized to dictate to states to "improve their educational programs" just goes to show that you're not qualified to be involved in this discussion.

It doesn't matter what liberals want or demand. The U.S. Constitution is the law. And until such time as it is amended, anything beyond those 18 enumerated powers that the federal government engages in is 100% illegal. It's amazing the criminal activity that you engage in and support. Shameful. And to think you are tasked with education our youth. No wonder so many people are turning to home schooling.

The feds shouldn't be telling the states what to do at all. However what they should be doing is pooling resources together so that they can give the states the ability to choose educational options that will make their education better.

 

[Unkotare]

The antagonism and defending of forts here is entirely unnecessary.

 

[Unkotare]

My son is an engineer. He didn't have a hard time getting his degree.

Must have gone to a mediocre engineering school.

Which one did you go to?

 

[CowboyTed]

Knowing what I do now? There is no fucking way I would send my kids to the indoctrination centers that are trying to pass themselves off as public education. They don't teach kids HOW to think insomuch as they teach them what to think. They don't want generations of free thinkers...they want obedient workers that will never question authority which is so ironic since the teaching profession is thick with liberals that made it their business to question the status quo...that is, until they became the authority. I can't even begin to express my utter hatred for what passes as "liberals" today....they have been nothing but useful idiots to the same oligarchs that they proclaim to be against. They don't have the sense that God saw fit to give a goat......un-friggin'-real.

This is the problem with some Homeschoolers... What kind of education would Dale give a child...

Lets make it very clear... Dale's children would have rights, they have the right to be educated properly despite Dale trying to restrict this right...

The thing is Children have rights too...

So the question is: Does the rights of the child outweigh to wishes of the parents?

Children have rights? Really? Tell me more. Do they have the right to vote? I know I do. So please tell me that children have the right to vote (I missed that somewhere) and then document that right to vote for me so I can verify independently.

Rottweiler,

I have no problem with homeschooling when done to good standard and a rounded education is achieved(and this achieve with some great success). I had a problem with Dale's comments on why he would be homeschooling, it seemed more about indoctrination than concern for the child.
I presume you agree with me that the child's rights of getting an education is paramount in either environment.

 

[CowboyTed]

Every person in this country has school choice. Move to the area that has the best schools. I did it every time I moved in the military for my kids. If you can't, that is your choice!

Bullshit. They don't have a choice about paying for the failed government schools.

Failed? That word gets tossed around so much it has no meaning. I doubt you could quantify what constitutes a "failed" school.

A failed school system is one that graduates students who are illiterate. How about that definition?

Which ones would that be? The high school where I teach graduates about 95%of our students. None are illiterate.

Many states require competency tests to demonstrate what they have learned. How do you explain those people?

How do you explain inner city schools that fail 60% of their students? Why shouldn't parents of children in these schools have the option of sending their kids elsewhere? The don't have the option of moving to some tony suburb where the real estate prices are in the stratosphere.

And you think the problem is the education system... Do you think they would do better with homeschooling...

The education system isn't a magic wand to solve everything... resources have to spent there... There is great examples internationally of proper investment in socially deprived area and the results achieved.

 

[Searcher44]

Might produce good grades for some but the real world isn't at home with mom.

ANd yet homeschooled kids kick ass in the real world. Like becoming Justices of the Supreme Court.

That link got me nothing. Which Justice are you referring to. Was it lately? Did he take the Bar. Law School?

 

[bripat9643]

Bullshit. They don't have a choice about paying for the failed government schools.

Failed? That word gets tossed around so much it has no meaning. I doubt you could quantify what constitutes a "failed" school.

A failed school system is one that graduates students who are illiterate. How about that definition?

Which ones would that be? The high school where I teach graduates about 95%of our students. None are illiterate.

Many states require competency tests to demonstrate what they have learned. How do you explain those people?

How do you explain inner city schools that fail 60% of their students? Why shouldn't parents of children in these schools have the option of sending their kids elsewhere? The don't have the option of moving to some tony suburb where the real estate prices are in the stratosphere.

And you think the problem is the education system... Do you think they would do better with homeschooling...

The education system isn't a magic wand to solve everything... resources have to spent there... There is great examples internationally of proper investment in socially deprived area and the results achieved.

Then explain why these same kids do much better when they get a voucher and go to a private school?

 

[Wilbur Right]

My kids enjoy school and it just takes a very involved parent like me and my wife to pay attention to what kids are learning or being taught and to correct the mistakes and or outright lies and keep them from garbage like going to a n!gger museum for some white guilt which we did a few months ago. I was home schooled for a year

Nothing will turn your kid into an anti social loser faster than home schooling.

Odium was home schooled. He was taught to be a racist. Lucky for the rest of us. The world needs more racists. And bigots too. Home school is best for racists and homophobes.

 

[Wilbur Right]

The real research on home schooling is astounding. I think more than anything is that parents of homeschooled children are heavily involved. And other research has shown that nothing impacts a child's education more than the level of involvement by the parents.

I known what you mean. My nieces three boys are homeschooled.

Her (my nieces) big bull dyke "husband" does some of the teaching. What subjects I do not know.


Is that what you mean about parents being involved in home schooling.

It's also nice that their gay friends are homeschooling. Gives their kids playmates who don't worry about two mommies.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well said, Tory. What most parents can do, and most do not do, is make sure that their children are actually learning. Get them out of the video games, cell phones, and TV, and go to museums, National Parks, and other areas with learning opportunities. There is a vast and wonderful world out there that all too many children never get to see because their parents are too lazy to take the interest in their children's education that they should.

 

[The Rabbi]

Might produce good grades for some but the real world isn't at home with mom.

ANd yet homeschooled kids kick ass in the real world. Like becoming Justices of the Supreme Court.

That link got me nothing. Which Justice are you referring to. Was it lately? Did he take the Bar. Law School?

It was Sandra Day O'Connor. Although there were probably others.