Is homeschooling a good solution?

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Kids dont have the capability to make decisions. That's why we don't hold them responsible for their mistakes. My RWNJ parents ruled with an iron hsnd. We were told that having our own opinions came with the ability and willingness to support ourselves. Until tben we had no opinions of our own.

I am "right wing" but I like asking my kids their opinions and what THEY think is the best option etc. I prefer to guide them instead of DICTATING to them. I have expectations that were well known when they were VERY young and they have been repeated so they know what we expect. So far no reason to force anything on them....odd how kids usually make the RIGHT choice when allowed to do it themselves I am more strict with their clothing options than anything else lol

You have to realize - liberals play a bunch of misinformation cards (like your children will lack social skills, or they will be "brainwashed") because homeschooling is one of those things that scares the living hell out of them. Indoctrination is the only thing they have going for them. An objective person, when provided the facts, will choose conservatism every time. If the American people start moving towards homeschooling, the dependent class will have no way of convincing the young and impressionable why failed liberal socialism is the way to go.

BINGO!

That's also the reason they hate vouchers. When parents can choose their schools, they don't have to put their kid in a school where he will be pumped full of leftwing propaganda.

Every person in this country has school choice. Move to the area that has the best schools. I did it every time I moved in the military for my kids. If you can't, that is your choice!

Bullshit. They don't have a choice about paying for the failed government schools.

Failed? That word gets tossed around so much it has no meaning. I doubt you could quantify what constitutes a "failed" school.

 

[P@triot]

Education 3.36
Foreign Language 3.34
English 3.33
Music 3.30
Religion 3.22
Biology 3.02
Psychology 2.98
Economics 2.95
Engineering 2.90
Math 2.90
Chemistry 2.78
What's the Average College GPA? By Major?

Education has the highest because it's the easiest. Your numbers only confirm that education majors are dumb. Engineering is one of the hardest majors, which is why the aver GPA is much lower.

Eh, it depends on the person...some barley pass engineering, while others ace it..I still had to finish the real operation of designs that engineers put on paper, and make them work..The engineer didn't know how to..

Very few students ace engineering. Engineering school is as competitive as medical school. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Electronic engineering at Univ of Arkanass...yes I do...I've also had to train architects...Nobody comes out of college knowing everything that is done in the real...

'Woooo! Pig Sooie!'

 

[bripat9643]

I am "right wing" but I like asking my kids their opinions and what THEY think is the best option etc. I prefer to guide them instead of DICTATING to them. I have expectations that were well known when they were VERY young and they have been repeated so they know what we expect. So far no reason to force anything on them....odd how kids usually make the RIGHT choice when allowed to do it themselves I am more strict with their clothing options than anything else lol

You have to realize - liberals play a bunch of misinformation cards (like your children will lack social skills, or they will be "brainwashed") because homeschooling is one of those things that scares the living hell out of them. Indoctrination is the only thing they have going for them. An objective person, when provided the facts, will choose conservatism every time. If the American people start moving towards homeschooling, the dependent class will have no way of convincing the young and impressionable why failed liberal socialism is the way to go.

BINGO!

That's also the reason they hate vouchers. When parents can choose their schools, they don't have to put their kid in a school where he will be pumped full of leftwing propaganda.

Every person in this country has school choice. Move to the area that has the best schools. I did it every time I moved in the military for my kids. If you can't, that is your choice!

Bullshit. They don't have a choice about paying for the failed government schools.

Failed? That word gets tossed around so much it has no meaning. I doubt you could quantify what constitutes a "failed" school.

A failed school system is one that graduates students who are illiterate. How about that definition?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Teachers hardly do any work? Step in and do it then. Forego a decent salary and be a great teacher and be a part of the solution. This is your chance. You can teach how great america is.... Indoctrinate and create little patriots.

Education majors have the lowest entry scores of any major. If they could do my job, they would be doing it. I make more money precisely because not that many people can do what I do. Virtually anyone can teach kids to read, on the other hand.

 

[Moonglow]

Education 3.36
Foreign Language 3.34
English 3.33
Music 3.30
Religion 3.22
Biology 3.02
Psychology 2.98
Economics 2.95
Engineering 2.90
Math 2.90
Chemistry 2.78
What's the Average College GPA? By Major?

Education has the highest because it's the easiest. Your numbers only confirm that education majors are dumb. Engineering is one of the hardest majors, which is why the aver GPA is much lower.

Eh, it depends on the person...some barley pass engineering, while others ace it..I still had to finish the real operation of designs that engineers put on paper, and make them work..The engineer didn't know how to..

Very few students ace engineering. Engineering school is as competitive as medical school. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Electronic engineering at Univ of Arkanass...yes I do...I've also had to train architects...Nobody comes out of college knowing everything that is done in the real...

'Woooo! Pig Sooie!'

They suck, I much preferred OU,, Sooners..

 

[initforme]

He got his degree and was actually hired before he graduated. Engineers are a dime a dozen. Lots of em out there.

 

[P@triot]

Education 3.36
Foreign Language 3.34
English 3.33
Music 3.30
Religion 3.22
Biology 3.02
Psychology 2.98
Economics 2.95
Engineering 2.90
Math 2.90
Chemistry 2.78
What's the Average College GPA? By Major?

Education has the highest because it's the easiest. Your numbers only confirm that education majors are dumb. Engineering is one of the hardest majors, which is why the aver GPA is much lower.

Eh, it depends on the person...some barley pass engineering, while others ace it..I still had to finish the real operation of designs that engineers put on paper, and make them work..The engineer didn't know how to..

Very few students ace engineering. Engineering school is as competitive as medical school. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Electronic engineering at Univ of Arkanass...yes I do...I've also had to train architects...Nobody comes out of college knowing everything that is done in the real...

'Woooo! Pig Sooie!'

Houston Nutt
Ryan Mallet
Darren McFadden
Felix Jones

Love me some SEC football!

 

[P@triot]

Education has the highest because it's the easiest. Your numbers only confirm that education majors are dumb. Engineering is one of the hardest majors, which is why the aver GPA is much lower.

Eh, it depends on the person...some barley pass engineering, while others ace it..I still had to finish the real operation of designs that engineers put on paper, and make them work..The engineer didn't know how to..

Very few students ace engineering. Engineering school is as competitive as medical school. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Electronic engineering at Univ of Arkanass...yes I do...I've also had to train architects...Nobody comes out of college knowing everything that is done in the real...

'Woooo! Pig Sooie!'

They suck, I much preferred OU,, Sooners..

Well they suck now - but only because of Brett Beilema

Incidentally - I love OU as well. I've even seen a game there in Memorial Stadium!

 

[Moonglow]

He got his degree and was actually hired before he graduated. Engineers are a dime a dozen. Lots of em out there.

That is because they kept telling people it was a good area to get a degree in...I should have done civil or manufacturing engineering, more jobs available..I was never crazy about chemical..

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You have to realize - liberals play a bunch of misinformation cards (like your children will lack social skills, or they will be "brainwashed") because homeschooling is one of those things that scares the living hell out of them. Indoctrination is the only thing they have going for them. An objective person, when provided the facts, will choose conservatism every time. If the American people start moving towards homeschooling, the dependent class will have no way of convincing the young and impressionable why failed liberal socialism is the way to go.

BINGO!

That's also the reason they hate vouchers. When parents can choose their schools, they don't have to put their kid in a school where he will be pumped full of leftwing propaganda.

Every person in this country has school choice. Move to the area that has the best schools. I did it every time I moved in the military for my kids. If you can't, that is your choice!

Bullshit. They don't have a choice about paying for the failed government schools.

Failed? That word gets tossed around so much it has no meaning. I doubt you could quantify what constitutes a "failed" school.

A failed school system is one that graduates students who are illiterate. How about that definition?

Which ones would that be? The high school where I teach graduates about 95%of our students. None are illiterate.

Many states require competency tests to demonstrate what they have learned. How do you explain those people?

 

[Moonglow]

Eh, it depends on the person...some barley pass engineering, while others ace it..I still had to finish the real operation of designs that engineers put on paper, and make them work..The engineer didn't know how to..

Very few students ace engineering. Engineering school is as competitive as medical school. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Electronic engineering at Univ of Arkanass...yes I do...I've also had to train architects...Nobody comes out of college knowing everything that is done in the real...

'Woooo! Pig Sooie!'

They suck, I much preferred OU,, Sooners..

Well they suck now - but only because of Brett Beilema

Incidentally - I love OU as well. I've even seen a game there in Memorial Stadium!

I grew up in Moore..So we had an easy ride to the stadium..

 

[Never3ndr]

Seriously? Okay prove me wrong. Point to the 1st world nation that doesn't offer any public schooling that is outperforming the US.

You think that they are teaching modern feminist theory or something in high school...you do realize that those kids are just learning to bare basics of knowledge in our world right? Nobody is going to be asking them to stain a sample of microorganisms, code an elaborate application, or further economic theory or research. These kids are learning basic crap like calculus, (basic) chemistry, and English literature.

Again, if your world view is so fragile as to be defeated by a BASIC education, then your world view is probably weak.

Again - since liberals have gotten more involved with education and since they have moved more and more control over it to the federal government, we have seen performance plummet. That is just a simple fact.

I don't understand your question above because it completely supports what I said. Just about every other nation is outperforming our public school systems. Which is exactly why so many parents are turning to homeschooling. And the results are astounding. Homeschooled children are crushing public school children in every metric.

Just about every nation is outperforming our public schools...I'm not actually doubting that. What I am pointing out is HOW MANY OF THEM DO NOT HAVE PUBLIC SCHOOLS? Do you think that all of their children are homeschooled or something? Also, you do realize that most of those nations (except maybe China off the top of my head) has actually MORE liberal views / education than our own nation. If anything, the fact that you point towards other nations as being better only leads to the conclusion that you would like to mirror their systems, which enforces FAR more liberal views than our own.

I don't actually doubt that homeschooled children crush public schooled children. I'd agree with that. The issue is that homeschooling is not a realistic answer on a broad basis for our population. It is a great answer if the kid's parents are already well-educated and financially well off or if the kid is an exceptional academic star. However, looking towards homeschooling as a broad stroked answer to our nation's educational problems brings us BACKWARDS rather than forwards. Do you really want for half of the working population with families to quit their jobs in order to educate their children? Do you realize what you would be calling upon in order for this to happen?

The clear answer is to encourage a BETTER public education rather than encouraging our work force to quit their jobs to haphazardly educate their children in a manner they deem best.

First of all - this is a very narrow view of the entire issue. And I'll address that as I go.

Second - I'm not advocating either chose. I happen to LOVE homeschooling. However, I'm not trying to force that on society. If a parent wants to send their child to public school - great. I'm a Constitutional conservative. Ergo, I'm all about freedom and choice. I would never support placing a gun to a parents head and forcing them to homeschool.

Third - as far as families arranging for homeschooling, this is where you have an extremely narrow view. For starters, I would advocate that parents do whatever is in their children's best interest. If that means one of the parents quitting their jobs and living in a smaller house or whatever, so be it. Isn't your children more important than a career or material items? I know mine are to me. Furthermore, no parent has to quit their job to homeschool. There are enough hours after work and on the weekends to home school. A child might have to "attend" school from 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m., but it's easily doable. Also, there are retired grandparents that can handle it. I had a manager whose wife homeschooled their grandchildren. There are endless options.

My understanding was that the individuals defending homeschooling were looking towards it as a broad based "solution" to the perceived "liberal" education that was being provided by our public schools. If that is not your position then i apologize for misunderstanding. I agree that homeschooling should remain an option, and, in some cases, should even be encouraged. However, I would like to re-iterate that, implemented on a broad basis, I believe this to be highly detrimental to the American economy rather than beneficial.

I agree that parents should do what is in their child's best interest. It is with that in mind that I am actually advising AGAINST homeschooling (again, on a broad basis). How many individuals do you know that are educated enough, financially stable enough, dedicated enough, and experienced enough to provide a similar educational experience to the one provided by our public schools? I'll be honest, myself included, I know of nobody (not even teacher friends in the public school system). Why? Well, I'll be damned if I can say that I remember and can aptly teach the subject I learned...from biology to physics to latin (yeah, I choose a horrible foreign language) to even some of the later mathematics or nuanced points of English...I'd be either arrogant or delusional to say I'm as qualified as the individuals in our school system. I feel like if a parent REALLY wants to help their child be educated they will encourage them to study and engage with them (supplement their education) rather than try to teach them everything themselves.

Well for what's its worth - if you scroll above you'll see I address this already. Nobody is qualified to teach every subject. However, there are a slew of resources available to alleviate that problem.

We live in the technology age - we're far beyond brick and mortar schools at this point. There are tutors, there is state provided materials, there is online schooling, there is the internet, there are public libraries. Anybody can learn anything for free if they are determined enough.

Did you know that one of the Ivy League schools (I want to say Harvard, but please don't hold me to that) put their entire curriculum online for free? You can take every single course that Ivy League offers free of charge.

I personally believe that homeschooling is the broad-based solution for improving education. However, I would never force that on anyone. I fully support any parent who believe a public school education is the best option for their child. Likewise, I fully support any parent who believes that a private school or catholic school education is the best option. At the end of the day, we need to restore freedom to America and let the parent decide what they feel is in the best interest of their child(ren).

I agree that there are a slew of online resources to educate yourself. In fact, when I have time I like to continue / further educate myself using these resources (I've used everything from Khan Academy to edx to even going to Yale which had published a basic course online on the Bible that I was interested). I actually think that the future of education lays in utilizing these online settings more rather than the sit-down and lecture style of class that your or I attended. With all that said, I have to point out that I seriously doubt that these online resources can match the knowledge base of the collection of teachers in our nation...at least at this current point in time. I would be far more comfortable with my children learning chemistry from a teacher, in class, than from an online presentation...especially when you remember the fun projects that you would do in school that you would likely not really know too much about as a parent. Remember, these people literally do teaching as a full time job. You would have to be absurdly arrogant to think that you could even begin to teach their subject as well as they could (even a basic subject like arithmetic). Now, there are bad teachers where this wouldn't be the case, and, of course, this is when parent involvement is most needed. However, again, acting as a supplement to an education is far different from acting as a foundation.

With that said, I believe that, in the future, there will be enough online resources to be able to aptly educate your children online (in fact, I am going to start getting online tutoring in a foreign language I wish to learn starting next month). However, I do not believe the online resources, at this point in time, to be competitive enough with the vast knowledge base and experience that our public schools offer. I believe that we should work on bettering our education system rather than forsaking it.

 

[initforme]

They hate education.

 

[Dale Smith]

Knowing what I do now? There is no fucking way I would send my kids to the indoctrination centers that are trying to pass themselves off as public education. They don't teach kids HOW to think insomuch as they teach them what to think. They don't want generations of free thinkers...they want obedient workers that will never question authority which is so ironic since the teaching profession is thick with liberals that made it their business to question the status quo...that is, until they became the authority. I can't even begin to express my utter hatred for what passes as "liberals" today....they have been nothing but useful idiots to the same oligarchs that they proclaim to be against. They don't have the sense that God saw fit to give a goat......un-friggin'-real.

This is the problem with some Homeschoolers... What kind of education would Dale give a child...

Lets make it very clear... Dale's children would have rights, they have the right to be educated properly despite Dale trying to restrict this right...

The thing is Children have rights too...

So the question is: Does the rights of the child outweigh to wishes of the parents?

Knowing what I do now? There is no fucking way I would send my kids to the indoctrination centers that are trying to pass themselves off as public education. They don't teach kids HOW to think insomuch as they teach them what to think. They don't want generations of free thinkers...they want obedient workers that will never question authority which is so ironic since the teaching profession is thick with liberals that made it their business to question the status quo...that is, until they became the authority. I can't even begin to express my utter hatred for what passes as "liberals" today....they have been nothing but useful idiots to the same oligarchs that they proclaim to be against. They don't have the sense that God saw fit to give a goat......un-friggin'-real.

This is the problem with some Homeschoolers... What kind of education would Dale give a child...

Lets make it very clear... Dale's children would have rights, they have the right to be educated properly despite Dale trying to restrict this right...

The thing is Children have rights too...

So the question is: Does the rights of the child outweigh to wishes of the parents?

As long as my child is my responsibility and their welfare is of my concern AND as long as I am not violating any acts, statutes or codes of this corporate entity that is trying to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body? It's none of their fucking business...none, nada....zilch. I can promise this one thing, they will learn to read, write (and in cursive) learn to add, subtract, multiply and divide. They would learn about our REAL history...not the bullshit that was shoved down our throats about how we are a democracy now when we were once a Republic. My children know about all of this stuff and how the financial system actually works....you know...the shit that public school indoctrination neglects to teach or inform them about. In other words, I will and have taught them how things really are...not the whitewashed version of what "da gubermint" thinks they need to know in order to insure that they are good, subservient and compliant slaves...hope this helps.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

ITT I see a lot of people who lack a basic education wishing to pass on their lack of a basic education to their children rather than giving their children the chance to be educated, form their own opinions, and succeed in life.

If your world view is so fragile as to be defeated by basic education...it may mean that your world view is wrong...not that basic education is wrong.

Or it may be that the more liberals have gotten involved in education, the more it has failed. Since Jimmy Carter created the Department of Education, we have seen national scores plummet. So the "lack of basic education" I see is from people like you who have no idea what they are talking about, are mindless little minions to the system, refuse to question their masters, and are too lazy to take responsibility for their children - preferring instead to have the government raise them.

Really? Which scores? What is your metric for making that determination? What has the Department of Education done to cause this so-called plummet?

They've unconstitutionally involved themselves in an issue that they have no business involving themselves in and which they are not designed to over see.

So what have they done? Well, they've illegally passed out federal dollars to get schools systems hooked (like crack cocaine) and then threatened to withhold those dollars in the future if the school systems did not incorporate their curriculum.

Do you have any idea why the Department of Education was formed in response to?

States who refused to institute the changes needed to improve their state's educational programs. Congress wanted oversight to keep these states in line. As time has gone by, improvement has been made and their influence has waned.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things we probably could do away with the Department of education, but using them as a scapegoat is just disingenuous.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I don't believe liberal parents should be forced to make their children attend conservative public schools in red states and vice versa.

I agree. People should be allowed to tend to the educate of their children as they see fit. How does the US Department of Education advance this notion?

The U.S. Education Department was little to no impact s home schooling is a state issue.

But what does US DE do for school choice?

You have school choice in where your children attend school by where you live. They have no impact whatsoever.

That's like saying if the government passed a law forcing you to shop at Walmart, you still have the choice of moving to where there's a Walmart you like.

Try again. There was no real thought put into that post.

 

[Dale Smith]

I agree. People should be allowed to tend to the educate of their children as they see fit. How does the US Department of Education advance this notion?

The U.S. Education Department was little to no impact s home schooling is a state issue.

But what does US DE do for school choice?

You have school choice in where your children attend school by where you live. They have no impact whatsoever.

That's like saying if the government passed a law forcing you to shop at Walmart, you still have the choice of moving to where there's a Walmart you like.

Try again. Those was no real thought put into that post.

 

[P@triot]

Very few students ace engineering. Engineering school is as competitive as medical school. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Electronic engineering at Univ of Arkanass...yes I do...I've also had to train architects...Nobody comes out of college knowing everything that is done in the real...

'Woooo! Pig Sooie!'

They suck, I much preferred OU,, Sooners..

Well they suck now - but only because of Brett Beilema

Incidentally - I love OU as well. I've even seen a game there in Memorial Stadium!

I grew up in Moore..So we had an easy ride to the stadium..

Nice! I had to fly half way across the country. Well worth it though. It's my passion - I've seem games all around the nation.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes, I spend all day long indoctrinating my students in the wonders of socialist Algebra, which sounds like it should be a terrorist group.

Most parents cannot teach their way out of a wet paper bag because they never learned it themselves.

If that is not the case, I say home school to your little hearts content! My own granddaughter is being home schooled.

I just get pissed off when people try to use bogus statistics to back up their arguments. Anyone with a knowledge of statistics would know that their data is flawed.

For starters, there is nothing "flawed" about the data.

Now, as for the rest of this, you are simply completely misunderstanding. I don't know of a parent who can't homeschool their children through grade school. I mean, guess who taught my children to speak? My wife and I. Guess who taught them their colors?? My wife and I. Guess who taught them to count? My wife and I. Teaching small children the basics is so easy, anybody can do it. Anybody.

Now, once they get into middle school and high school and the material gets a little more challenging, it's still not that big of deal. For starters, the state provides material for each lesson that the parent goes over which shows how to teach the lesson. If that's not enough (and in many cases, it's probably not), the internet wields endless volumes of information - including videos on YouTube which have visual aids. If that's still not enough, many parents hire tutors who specialize in that subject for that grade. Finally, not all home schooling is done by parents or tutors. Many states actually offer online learning. So the student is still learning from a government educator, but from their home. Their are a multitude of options.

We live in the technology era my friend. Learning extends far beyond brick and mortar buildings these days.

Nothing flawed about the data? Look at some of the writings by Gerald Bracey on how educational statistics are manipulated Home schooling advocates are some of the most guilty.

You are speaking from your own experience and that is NOT the norm. Far too many states leave just about everything up to the home schoolers because they have been brow beaten into submission by lobbyists and the courts.

Ok - lets say that's true. Lets say you're a right. Let me ask you an honest question (I'm truly not being sarcastic here): so what? Lets say that the states have been "brow beaten into submission" - isn't that the will of the people winning? Why should the government have control over my child? The people are supposed to control their own lives in America. That's why this nation was founded and that's how this nation was founded. So where do you, or a Democrat, or anyone derive the power to dictate to me how and when my child should be educated? If I want to homeschool them and I don't do a good job with it at all, how is that any of your business or the governments business? Shouldn't we err on the side of freedom?

Let me leave you with one of my favorite quotes about this issue from Thomas Jefferson:

“It is better to tolerate the rare instance of a parent refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings and ideas by the forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of the father.”

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on this if you are willing to have a serious and honest discussion.

Winning? That is the result of a few whackos getting their way, not the will of the majority.

Why should the government have control over your child? How about it is in the public interest to ensure your child has a satisfactory education so they will not become a ward of the state?

Thomas Jefferson was an elitist hypocrite when it came to education. Nothing more needs to said about that misguided statement.

So there you go - typical left-wing communism. Your child needs to serve the state. Three major flaws with your view:

1.) It violates everything that the U.S. was built on (freedom and choice)

2.) You people created the "ward of the state". Stop the socialism, and you won't have to worry about future generations needing it. If it doesn't exist, it's not a problem.

3.) Anyone can be educated. Once a child turns 18, they are officially and adult and free to make their own decisions. If I, as a parent, didn't educate them properly, why don't you public school educators allow them to attend public school starting at 18 and educate them on any and all curriculum that was missed at home?

Simple solutions to simple problems. But you know why you're not interested in any of this? Because it's not about education for the left. It's about power and control. The fact that you dismiss one of the greatest founders of America, one of the greatest minds to ever step foot on this planet, and someone who experienced oppression first hand just goes to show that you're not the least bit interested in solutions based on freedom and the free-market. You're simply interested in imposing your will on others.

I'm sorry, but your post just reeks with the ignorance you are basing it on.

You really want people to be free to not educate their children? We will be overrun with morons in less than a generation. The Democrats will have no problem filling their voting rolls with intellectually challenged individuals. Don't we have enough already?

I have no idea what you are yapping about. I created? No. You are spitballing answers.

We already have programs for people who didn't receive an education. It is called a GED. I am sure you have heard of them as you probably possess one or have lots of friends who do.

I am about as far left as Rush Limbaugh. What you see as liberalism is because you have been taught that any criticism of education that is opposed by anyone, they must be a liberal. That's far from the truth I am afraid to say. Liberals and conservatives are both to blame for the problems in education. I just happen to have a front-row seat and the education on the topic to understand it far better than anyone else.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I don't believe liberal parents should be forced to make their children attend conservative public schools in red states and vice versa.

Home schooling is great if you want to raise a child with no exposure to any other ideas than your own,

It's also great if you want the opposite. The key is, it's great for parents who want more control over how their children are educated.

So you want morons to be free to raise another generation of morons?