Is obama a socilist, or a fascist?

[Polk]

Sort of how Obama Merged GM with the government and fired their CEO?

No. That's not a merger. That actually is an example of a (temporary) government takeover. Same thing happened in the UK with Northern Rock. If you want an example of "the merger of state and corporate power", I provided one earlier in this thread: the use of the military to break up coal miner strikes in the late 1800s.

So using the military to support business interests isn't an example of "merg[ing] state and corporate power"?

 

[Polk]

Since you guys are claiming the Nazis are left-wing, which parties did constitute the German right during the Weimar Republic?

You want us to explain why Left wing dictators act like dictators????? Read Obamas book maybe that will help give you a look in the mind of socialist dictators.

I see you didn't answer the question. I wonder why...

 

[thanatos144]

Since you guys are claiming the Nazis are left-wing, which parties did constitute the German right during the Weimar Republic?

You want us to explain why Left wing dictators act like dictators????? Read Obamas book maybe that will help give you a look in the mind of socialist dictators.

I see you didn't answer the question. I wonder why...

Cause it is asinine for me to try and explain why socialist dictators act like dictators...Are only you liberals boggled by power hungry assholes taking more power form anyone anywhere anytime they can?????

 

[Polk]

I find it very interesting that you're so committed to your beliefs that you don't think anyone could espouse similar ideas for wicked ends. The reason you didn't answer the question is because the answer torpedoes your argument. The best example of a party on the German right during the Weimar period is the German National People's Party. Pointing to them doesn't help you though, because they had an alliance with the Nazis (Harzburg Front). The strongest supports of the National People's Party was an organization called Der Stahlhelm, the veteran's organization.

 

[thanatos144]

I find it very interesting that you're so committed to your beliefs that you don't think anyone could espouse similar ideas for wicked ends. The reason you didn't answer the question is because the answer torpedoes your argument. The best example of a party on the German right during the Weimar period is the German National People's Party. Pointing to them doesn't help you though, because they had an alliance with the Nazis (Harzburg Front). The strongest supports of the National People's Party was an organization called Der Stahlhelm, the veteran's organization.

And none of this has anything to do with Nazi being socialists LOL

 

[Polk]

Yes, it does. Unless you think all of these people on the German right had some hidden socialist agenda.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The wacks, Polk, whether far left or far right weirdos, are committed to ideology before facts and narrative. They twist the facts and the narrative to their ideology while throwing out anything that does not fit.

That is exactly what the far right weirdies are doing here.

Hitler was not a socialist: he killed socialists.

Hitler was the champion of German capitalists: they supported him.

Hitler did not nationalize industry.

Millions of Germans from the right voted for him, bitterly opposed by millions of centrists and leftists.

bigrebnc and other weirdos who have tried to redefine these political and historical and narrative terms, if they had tried this in a college history class, they would have failed.

Rightfully so.

 

[Foxfyre]

yeah, that scrubbed it all clean now, didn't it?

The Nazi regime either commanded the complete loyalty and compliance of the business owners or those business owners were quietly removed and loyal supporters were installed in their stead. If that wasn't feasible, the government took over and ran the business. And of course the complete and total power as well as the intent and motives of the Nazi regime were kept from the people who were being promised their own glorious "new deal" and were being fooled into believing it was for their benefit and via their consent. And so they showed up by the tens of thousands to wave the flag of the Third Reich and to hail Hitler as their deliverer, benefactor, and champion.

Of course by the time they realized that he was none of that, it was too late.

And I wonder if there are any Americans willing to learn from the lessons of history?

Your theory only works in the Nazis somehow magically appeared in power and then started throwing their weight around. You're missing the whole part where they won elections.

They never won a majority even after threatening to execute all the communist leaders, after replacing all the police with their own people who would become the Gestapo, and after picking up substantial Catholic vote from rural people who feared an Atheist Communist government might be installed. The Nazis also controlled the media. But perhaps you can show me any case that a dictator has ever lost an election even when such were allowed?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Nazi regime either commanded the complete loyalty and compliance of the business owners or those business owners were quietly removed and loyal supporters were installed in their stead. If that wasn't feasible, the government took over and ran the business. And of course the complete and total power as well as the intent and motives of the Nazi regime were kept from the people who were being promised their own glorious "new deal" and were being fooled into believing it was for their benefit and via their consent. And so they showed up by the tens of thousands to wave the flag of the Third Reich and to hail Hitler as their deliverer, benefactor, and champion.

Of course by the time they realized that he was none of that, it was too late.

And I wonder if there are any Americans willing to learn from the lessons of history?

Your theory only works in the Nazis somehow magically appeared in power and then started throwing their weight around. You're missing the whole part where they won elections.

They never won a majority even after threatening to execute all the communist leaders, after replacing all the police with their own people who would become the Gestapo, and after picking up substantial Catholic vote from rural people who feared an Atheist Communist government might be installed. The Nazis also controlled the media. But perhaps you can show me any case that a dictator has ever lost an election even when such were allowed?

He was not a dictator until he succeeded to Chancellor and then the Reichstag gave him dictatorial power.

 

[Foxfyre]

Your theory only works in the Nazis somehow magically appeared in power and then started throwing their weight around. You're missing the whole part where they won elections.

They never won a majority even after threatening to execute all the communist leaders, after replacing all the police with their own people who would become the Gestapo, and after picking up substantial Catholic vote from rural people who feared an Atheist Communist government might be installed. The Nazis also controlled the media. But perhaps you can show me any case that a dictator has ever lost an election even when such were allowed?

He was not a dictator until he succeeded to Chancellor and then the Reichstag gave him dictatorial power.

He got 33% of the vote in that election. Goering made sure Hitler was seated as Chancellor though and then made damn sure nobody would unseat him.

 

[JakeStarkey]

They never won a majority even after threatening to execute all the communist leaders, after replacing all the police with their own people who would become the Gestapo, and after picking up substantial Catholic vote from rural people who feared an Atheist Communist government might be installed. The Nazis also controlled the media. But perhaps you can show me any case that a dictator has ever lost an election even when such were allowed?

He was not a dictator until he succeeded to Chancellor and then the Reichstag gave him dictatorial power.

He got 33% of the vote in that election. Goering made sure Hitler was seated as Chancellor though and then made damn sure nobody would unseat him.

Yup. The Chancellor in power when Hitler picked up millions of right wing votes appointed Hitler to the position of Vice Chancellor. When the chancellor died, Goering, leading a coalition of Nazi and right wing parties, abnegated the national legislative power and made Hitler a dictator.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

He was not a dictator until he succeeded to Chancellor and then the Reichstag gave him dictatorial power.

He got 33% of the vote in that election. Goering made sure Hitler was seated as Chancellor though and then made damn sure nobody would unseat him.

Yup. The Chancellor in power when Hitler picked up millions of right wing votes appointed Hitler to the position of Vice Chancellor. When the chancellor died, Goering, leading a coalition of Nazi and right wing parties, abnegated the national legislative power and made Hitler a dictator.

It's to bad that the left wing picked up Hitler's socialist agenda.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The wacks, Polk, whether far left or far right weirdos, are committed to ideology before facts and narrative. They twist the facts and the narrative to their ideology while throwing out anything that does not fit.

That is exactly what the far right weirdies are doing here.

Hitler was not a socialist: he killed socialists.

Hitler was the champion of German capitalists: they supported him.

Hitler did not nationalize industry.

Millions of Germans from the right voted for him, bitterly opposed by millions of centrists and leftists.

bigrebnc and other weirdos who have tried to redefine these political and historical and narrative terms, if they had tried this in a college history class, they would have failed.

Rightfully so.

shut the fuck up flake

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Since you guys are claiming the Nazis are left-wing, which parties did constitute the German right during the Weimar Republic?

You want us to explain why Left wing dictators act like dictators????? Read Obamas book maybe that will help give you a look in the mind of socialist dictators.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's been good that we have cleaned up the far right nonsense about Hitler not being a right winger. This has been an excellent discussion.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It's been good that we have cleaned up the far right nonsense about Hitler not being a right winger. This has been an excellent discussion.

Flaky is about too have a meltdown

 

[Polk]

They never won a majority even after threatening to execute all the communist leaders, after replacing all the police with their own people who would become the Gestapo, and after picking up substantial Catholic vote from rural people who feared an Atheist Communist government might be installed. The Nazis also controlled the media. But perhaps you can show me any case that a dictator has ever lost an election even when such were allowed?

He was not a dictator until he succeeded to Chancellor and then the Reichstag gave him dictatorial power.

He got 33% of the vote in that election. Goering made sure Hitler was seated as Chancellor though and then made damn sure nobody would unseat him.

He was seated as Chancellor because von Hindenburg's shell games were coming increasingly unpopular. In the last open election of the Weimar Republican, the Nazis plus their coalition partner (DNVP) won a majority of the vote and seats.

 

[Polk]

Also, if the Nazis were on the left, von Schleicher's strategy of chipping away the more moderate elements of the party and combining them with labor unions to freeze Hitler out seems like an odd strategy. Why would labor unions be opposed to the socialists?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Also, if the Nazis were on the left, von Schleicher's strategy of chipping away the more moderate elements of the party and combining them with labor unions to freeze Hitler out seems like an odd strategy. Why would labor unions be opposed to the socialists?

It's not that the nazi were left, it's the left who took up the nazi's social agenda.

 

[clevergirl]

My point was to look carefully at the sources.

Hitler was considered the savior of Western civilization and capitalism. No nationalization of industry happened. The uber capitalists were very happy with Herr Hitler.

And he had his SS murdered the homosexual leadership of the SA, where the seeds of socialism had existed. Not only did Hitler have SA socialists murdered, he had them and communists and all opponents murdered.

The "uber" capitalists were happy with Hitler, as were numerous people opposed to the growing threat of Marxism, until they understood more about his regime. Hitler was a mad man Jake- He murdered people for the color of their skin or the ancestry of their birth. AGAIN, your point?

I refuse to believe Jake is as clueless as his posts. I still believe he plays devil's advocate here, but damn that must get really tedious after awhile.

Pure socialism takes complete control of the economy, generally through totalitarian means.

Facism, of which Hitler's Third Reich embraced, controlled the corporations by installing or controlling the CEO's/owners of those businesses. While the owners could still profit fro their businesses, they were required to use their property and production in the 'national interest' as dictated by the government authorities. Those who resisted were appropriated and run by the State. Pure socialism replaces the free market with a governent run economy. Facism gives the illusion of a free market capitalistic system but is setting and enforcing all prices and wages behind the scenes.

I don't recall which thread, but I responded to a "Hitler got rid of unions just like conservatives want to"...as if~

Here is a great link that shoots the implication that Hitler was anything other than a fascist megalomaniac Hitler Didn