Is the US a democracy?

[bigrebnc1775]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJvAZUtiI1M&feature=related]A More Perfect Union Part 4 of 8 mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”Thomas Jefferson

Too bad that you have never really READ Jefferson. Washington, Jefferson, Madison... You might want to take a sabatical and actually READ what these men had to say about our nation, our system of government, and why GOVERNMENT is the most dangerous thing to freedom than ANYTHING else in this world.

Course, if you absolutely LOVE Barry and Democrats, what Jefferson has to say that even YOU quoted has to be discounted. Facts have NEVER been one of your strong suits...

 

[Dragon]

[Dragon] doesn't KNOW that you may peek at an ignored member's post.

Of course I know that. I simply refuse.

And Liability will come off ignore when he demonstrates that his mother taught him any manners. So far, he's reliably demonstrating to the contrary.

 

[Full-Auto]

[Dragon] doesn't KNOW that you may peek at an ignored member's post.

Of course I know that. I simply refuse.

And Liability will come off ignore when he demonstrates that his mother taught him any manners. So far, he's reliably demonstrating to the contrary.

So you are a pussy, afraid to read others posts.

 

[Truthmatters]

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”Thomas Jefferson

Too bad that you have never really READ Jefferson. Washington, Jefferson, Madison... You might want to take a sabatical and actually READ what these men had to say about our nation, our system of government, and why GOVERNMENT is the most dangerous thing to freedom than ANYTHING else in this world.

Course, if you absolutely LOVE Barry and Democrats, what Jefferson has to say that even YOU quoted has to be discounted. Facts have NEVER been one of your strong suits...

Now go get the paragraph that quote is in?


Do you even know the context in which he said it?

 

[naturegirl]

Why do you keep refusing all the dictionary and encylcopedia defintions ?

Why is it so important to the right to hate the word democracy?


What do you think you will gain from such stupidity?

Why are you refusing to admit the United States is not a democracy??

ThisNation.com--Is the United States a democracy?

It is important to keep in mind the difference between a Democracy and a Republic, as dissimilar forms of government. Understanding the difference is essential to comprehension of the fundamentals involved. It should be noted, in passing, that use of the word Democracy as meaning merely the popular type of government--that is, featuring genuinely free elections by the people periodically--is not helpful in discussing, as here, the difference between alternative and dissimilar forms of a popular government: a Democracy versus a Republic. This double meaning of Democracy--a popular-type government in general, as well as a specific form of popular government--needs to be made clear in any discussion, or writing, regarding this subject, for the sake of sound understanding.

These two forms of government: Democracy and Republic, are not only dissimilar but antithetical, reflecting the sharp contrast between (a) The Majority Unlimited, in a Democracy, lacking any legal safeguard of the rights of The Individual and The Minority, and (b) The Majority Limited, in a Republic under a written Constitution safeguarding the rights of The Individual and The Minority; as we shall now see.

An Important Distinction: Democracy versus Republic


Dang TM, open your mind. You can wish it all you want but it isn't so. How about you look up the definition of Republic:

republic
[ri-puhb-lik]   Origin
re·pub·lic
   [ri-puhb-lik] Show IPA
noun
1.
a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.

Republic | Define Republic at Dictionary.com

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why do you keep refusing all the dictionary and encylcopedia defintions ?

Why is it so important to the right to hate the word democracy?


What do you think you will gain from such stupidity?

Are we bound by the Constitution or by a dictionary definition?

Article 4 section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

 

[Dragon]

Intense, "federalism" isn't in conflict with "democracy" anymore than "republic" is.

Naturegirl: beware of taking quotes out of context. Any government can violate the rights of individuals. That's why we have the Bill of Rights. We had the Bill of Rights before we were a democracy, and now that we are one, we still have it. Two separate issues that should not be confused.

Actually it is more specific. We constitute more than Democratic Principles, in a Federal Republic. Decentralization of Powers is a Critical component. Checks and Balances. Rule of Law, preferable to the influential sway of the flavor of the day, which results in misinformed Mob Rule. What good is a Bill of Rights that can be pulled out from under you in a day with 50.0001% majority? We are Hybrid and Unique in what we are. We incorporate Human Rights Principles, Unalienable Rights Principles, Democratic Principles, Republican Principles, and Federalist Principles. Much more complex than a simple Majority Rule.

But NONE of that has any bearing on whether or not we are a democracy.

A federal system is one in which the central government is established by powers ceded by regional governments. This is in contrast, not to democracy, but to unitary government in which regional governments are considered to be units of or arms of the central government. France has a unitary government. The U.S. and Germany both have federal systems. All three are democracies.

Protection of civil liberties and limitations on government power are also completely separate from the question of democracy. Democracy does not mean unlimited or unchecked government, it just means government in which the majority rules, as opposed to decisions being made by a privileged minority (aristocracy) or by a single person (monarchy). Any of those may be checked by restraints on the government -- or not. The British monarchy from the time of King John and the Magna Carta until some time in the 18th or maybe 19th century was a constitutional monarchy in which the king made most of the decisions, but was restrained by provisions to protect the people's rights. Do you see that this nonetheless was neither a republic nor a democracy?

What's happening here is that features of governance are being attributed to the concept of "republic" which are really independent of it.

There are in the end only three types of government: monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy. A "republic" may be either of the second two, but is generally regarded as incompatible with monarchy. So those who say that the U.S. is a republic, but NOT a democracy, are implicitly calling for an ARISTOCRATIC republic -- a republic in which only the rich and powerful have a voice in government.

That is not what we're supposed to be.

 

[Intense]

Why do you keep refusing all the dictionary and encylcopedia defintions ?

Why is it so important to the right to hate the word democracy?


What do you think you will gain from such stupidity?

You are projecting TM. Understandable, in that you have such difficulty with compound thought. Let's go for a walk. Go find your leash.

 

[Claudette]

tell us why you believe it is or is not.

how many times do you have to go through this same pointless exercise?

even a white rat learns.

Just curious what your take on it is.

TDM's a moron.

Thats my take on it.

 

[Dragon]

Article 4 section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government

I suspect we're all familiar with that language. The mistake you're making is to suppose there is any conflict between having a "republican form of government" and democracy.

The only form of government that can't be a republic is a monarchy. So really, all this passage is doing is guaranteeing that none of the states will suffer a monarchy.

 

[Truthmatters]

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”Thomas Jefferson

Too bad that you have never really READ Jefferson. Washington, Jefferson, Madison... You might want to take a sabatical and actually READ what these men had to say about our nation, our system of government, and why GOVERNMENT is the most dangerous thing to freedom than ANYTHING else in this world.

Course, if you absolutely LOVE Barry and Democrats, what Jefferson has to say that even YOU quoted has to be discounted. Facts have NEVER been one of your strong suits...

Now go get the paragraph that quote is in?


Do you even know the context in which he said it?

Earliest known appearance in print: 1986[1][2]

Earliest known appearance in print, attributed to Jefferson: See above.

Other attributions: None known.

Status: This exact quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It bears a very vague resemblance to Jefferson's comment in a prospectus for his translation of Destutt de Tracy's Treatise on Political Economy: "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, -€˜the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it.'"[3]





My mistake, he never said it.

I thought he was talking about England taking the wealth from the colonies.


The democracy will cease to exist... (Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson

 

[Dragon]

So you are a pussy, afraid to read others posts.

Afraid? No. I simply don't derive anything of value from reading the posts of childish, rude assholes. I'm here for fun, and that's not fun.

 

[Katzndogz]

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”Thomas Jefferson

Too bad that you have never really READ Jefferson. Washington, Jefferson, Madison... You might want to take a sabatical and actually READ what these men had to say about our nation, our system of government, and why GOVERNMENT is the most dangerous thing to freedom than ANYTHING else in this world.

Course, if you absolutely LOVE Barry and Democrats, what Jefferson has to say that even YOU quoted has to be discounted. Facts have NEVER been one of your strong suits...

Liberals believe they have read the words of the Founders. They are spoon fed select phrases in a controlled context which they regurgitate on command. That's all they know.

 

[Truthmatters]

Democracy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



de·moc·ra·cy
noun \di-ˈmä-krə-sē\
pluralde·moc·ra·cies








Definition of DEMOCRACY



1

a: government by the people; especially: rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

 

[Truthmatters]

Search the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia

 

[Truthmatters]

Search the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia

Thomas Jefferson Collection | Jeffersonian Encyclopedia homepage
University of Virginia Library

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


7270. REPRESENTATION, Democratic. --


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7270. REPRESENTATION, Democratic. --
View page | View section
The full experiment of a government democratical, but representative, was and is still reserved for us. The idea (taken, indeed, from the little specimen formerly existing in the English constitution, but now lost) has been carried by us, more or less, into all our legislative and executive departments; but it has not yet, by any of us, been pushed into all the ramifications of the system, so far as to leave no authority existing not responsible to the people; whose rights, however, to the exercise and fruits of their own industry, can never be protected against the selfishness of rulers not subject to their control at short periods. The introduction of this new principle of representative democracy has rendered useless almost everything written before on the structure of government; and, in a great measure, relieves our regret, if the political writings of Aristotle, or of any other ancient, have been lost, or are unfaithfully rendered or explained to us. --

TITLE: To Isaac H. Tiffany.
EDITION: Washington ed. vii, 32.
PLACE: Monticello
DATE: 1816

 

[naturegirl]

Democracy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



de·moc·ra·cy
noun \di-ˈmä-krə-sē\
pluralde·moc·ra·cies








Definition of DEMOCRACY



1

a: government by the people; especially: rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

The majority doesn't always rule, but surely you know that. What if we let the majority rule when it came to Emacipation, Civil Rights and women voting?? In a democracy those things would have never happened. The majority was against them.

A true democracy doesn't listen to minorities. They govern by mob rule. But you know that don't you??

 

[Truthmatters]

You are confusing Direct or pure Democracy with the word DEMOCRACY.


It just makes you look like fools or liars

 

[Intense]

Intense, "federalism" isn't in conflict with "democracy" anymore than "republic" is.

Naturegirl: beware of taking quotes out of context. Any government can violate the rights of individuals. That's why we have the Bill of Rights. We had the Bill of Rights before we were a democracy, and now that we are one, we still have it. Two separate issues that should not be confused.

Actually it is more specific. We constitute more than Democratic Principles, in a Federal Republic. Decentralization of Powers is a Critical component. Checks and Balances. Rule of Law, preferable to the influential sway of the flavor of the day, which results in misinformed Mob Rule. What good is a Bill of Rights that can be pulled out from under you in a day with 50.0001% majority? We are Hybrid and Unique in what we are. We incorporate Human Rights Principles, Unalienable Rights Principles, Democratic Principles, Republican Principles, and Federalist Principles. Much more complex than a simple Majority Rule.

But NONE of that has any bearing on whether or not we are a democracy.

A federal system is one in which the central government is established by powers ceded by regional governments. This is in contrast, not to democracy, but to unitary government in which regional governments are considered to be units of or arms of the central government. France has a unitary government. The U.S. and Germany both have federal systems. All three are democracies.

Protection of civil liberties and limitations on government power are also completely separate from the question of democracy. Democracy does not mean unlimited or unchecked government, it just means government in which the majority rules, as opposed to decisions being made by a privileged minority (aristocracy) or by a single person (monarchy). Any of those may be checked by restraints on the government -- or not. The British monarchy from the time of King John and the Magna Carta until some time in the 18th or maybe 19th century was a constitutional monarchy in which the king made most of the decisions, but was restrained by provisions to protect the people's rights. Do you see that this nonetheless was neither a republic nor a democracy?

What's happening here is that features of governance are being attributed to the concept of "republic" which are really independent of it.

There are in the end only three types of government: monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy. A "republic" may be either of the second two, but is generally regarded as incompatible with monarchy. So those who say that the U.S. is a republic, but NOT a democracy, are implicitly calling for an ARISTOCRATIC republic -- a republic in which only the rich and powerful have a voice in government.

That is not what we're supposed to be.

Majority does not Rule here. Rule of Law does. In most cases, it takes much more than a Majority to change existing Law, and Rightly so. The Purpose of Good Government in part, is to Establish, maintain, preserve, and expand on Justice and Liberty. That is not always popular, is it? When the Court expresses a position, Rightly or Wrongly, at the highest levels, it is adhered to. Short of Constitutional Amendment or a Reversal of decision, regardless of what the Majority thinks, it remains Law. You may be confusing my position with others. My position Is that Good Government Establishes Justice through Reason and Force of Law, within It's Power, not outside of it. My position is that We as a Nation are a Federalist Constitutional Republic, governed by Rule of Law, not any Angry Mob, and that Yes We ascribe to certain Democratic Principles, in General. When you apply reason, more specifically, you will find that we incorporate some Democratic Principles while rejecting others. It is not my side of the argument that is rejecting fact here, We are just deeper into our reasoning. Our system of Government incorporates many Principles. Life, Liberty, Property, the Pursuit of Happiness, Justice, are matters of Principle, not Mob Rule.