I am so glad you are getting to experience him.
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Zone1 Islam- Arab Imperialism
- Thread starter rylah
- Start date
Sixties Fan
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Sixties Fan
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Sixties Fan
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BreezeWood
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I am so glad you are getting to experience him.
such are the sinners, without remorse for who next they tempt by their persuasions the same debaucheries as their own. bing.
Sinners by behavior show remorse.such are the sinners, without remorse for who next they tempt by their persuasions the same debaucheries as their own. bing.
BreezeWood
VIP Member
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[...]
speaking of a mute - their padded cell must not be qualified for a keyboard ...
BreezeWood
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Sinners by behavior show remorse.
oh no, where oh where - of course, the oil person in texas, what remorse can there be -
the garden is doing just fine ... the tree-huggers are actually communism disguised as concerned citizens.
Sinners always show remorse one way or another. God is great.oh no, where oh where - of course, the oil person in texas, what remorse can there be -
View attachment 870383
the garden is doing just fine ... the tree-huggers are actually communism disguised as concerned citizens.
BreezeWood
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Sinners always show remorse one way or another. God is great.
what about you - great at what ... persecution and victimization of the innocent. bing the christian.
Sixties Fan
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Nothing special about me whatsoever.what about you - great at what ... persecution and victimization of the innocent. bing the christian.
FDR_Reagan
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BreezeWood
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Sinners always show remorse one way or another. God is great.
what about you - great at what ... persecution and victimization of the innocent. bing the christian.
Nothing special about me whatsoever.
not what was referenced, what is special about you and sinners is by definition they lack remorse for their crimes as they would not commit them had they known better.
... in your case, lacking a rear view mirror for retrospection - as the hallmark of christianity.
I disagree. I have already told you that all sinners express remorse in one way or another.not what was referenced, what is special about you and sinners is by definition they lack remorse for their crimes as they would not commit them had they known better.
... in your case, lacking a rear view mirror for retrospection - as the hallmark of christianity.
BreezeWood
VIP Member
- Oct 26, 2011
- 17,267
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- 85
I disagree. I have already told you that all sinners express remorse in one way or another.
well, not only are you wrong, some sinners will build on their misdeed to sin again and enjoy it even more ...
I disagree. Sinners show their remorse in different ways. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you, God has everything under control.well, not only are you wrong, some sinners will build on their misdeed to sin again and enjoy it even more ...
BreezeWood
VIP Member
- Oct 26, 2011
- 17,267
- 1,394
- 85
I disagree. Sinners show their remorse in different ways. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you, God has everything under control.
so surprising, your belief as a sinner ...
without remorse and the 4th century christian religion since that time to the present - bing - sees no harm, why be remorseful.
- such is the example.
Judge how you wish to be judged.so surprising, your belief as a sinner ...
View attachment 870908
without remorse and the 4th century christian religion since that time to the present - bing - sees no harm, why be remorseful.
- such is the example.
rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 21,957
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- Thread starter
- #540
"They want to take over the world": the amazing story of the Gazan who fled to Israel
Dor Shahar, who was born in Khan Yunis under the name of Ayman Abu Subuh, converted and now lives in Israel, returns to his childhood in the Gaza Strip, to the education he received to hate Jews, to his escape to Israel and to the meeting with his adoptive father, following which he decided to convert.
"There are no citizens in Gaza who would go against Hamas. If necessary, they will kill Jews, Christians and Muslims," says Dor Shahar (46), who was born in Khan Yunis under the name Ayman Abu Subuh, fled to Israel, converted and now lives in Rishon Lezion. According to him, "In Gaza they belong to organizations such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, PLO, Tanzim and the like. All these organizations support the murder of Jews. Several of these organizations entered the Gaza Strip. It's a religious war, they want to take over the whole world." As a child, Shahar learned that the Jews were murderers who took the land of his ancestors and that we had to fight them. "I remember that once Israeli soldiers joined us for a soccer game in the neighborhood, I was maybe 6 years old," he says. "After the game was over, a soldier called me, put something in my palm and closed it. After a few seconds I opened my palm and saw a candy. I opened it and ate it and it was delicious. I took the wrapper to my house and showed it to my father, because I wanted him to buy me such candies. My father asked me where this cover came from and I told him I got it from the Jews, from the soldiers. He got up and out of anger he warned me that next time I won't take it because the soldiers can put poison in it."
At the age of 7, says Shahar, a new teacher came to the class at school. "He said there was a special lesson today and I was happy because I thought he would teach us to be doctors. He started talking and said that Jews are murderers of children, men, women and old people. He said, the Jews took your grandfather's land and you will fight for it and whoever dies will be a martyr and go to heaven. He also said that the Jews were Muslims and became infidels. The thing that caught me in particular was when he said that Jews have three legs." It's a bit frightening to receive such a dose of intimidation at such a young age, and from an authority figure. "Right. At that moment I felt bad. My happiness turned into a nightmare and I told the teacher that I didn't feel well. He slapped me on the cheek and took me to the manager's room. The manager asked me to face the wall, hit me with a rubber whip and it burned. He demanded that my father come with me to school. The next day my father came with me to school and entered the principal's room with me. He beat me and told me that Jews should be killed." It is possible that your father was afraid of the Fatah apparatus, which was in the leadership At that time, or did he really believe with all his heart that this was the way to educate?
"My father worked for 27 years in Israel and yet in our house they glorified the murder of Jews. Even in the school books it is written that you should behave this way because the Jews took the land from the Palestinians. When I got home, I saw that my father had hung a rope from the ceiling and threatened to hang me. He also lit a gas stove there and threatened to burn me. My mother was not allowed to interfere." Despite his father's threats, Shahar did not comply with his demands. "It's like the story of our father Abraham. In retrospect, it's like 'Go away from your country and your homeland and your father's house.' The Jews are endangered. We are all messengers in this world."
The return to Gaza
At the age of 11, Shahar was exposed to the Israelis, when he boarded a bus to Israel without his parents' knowledge. "I was intrigued to see those Jews with three legs. I arrived at 06:30 in the morning and saw in the city of Rishon Lezion a couple taking a morning walk. They passed by me and I looked closely, looking for their third leg," he says. "Towards evening I returned home and saw my father. It was strange because he was supposed to return on Thursday. He asked me where I was and I told him, with the sheep. He He told me: Don't lie! But he didn't punish me but simply told me to go to sleep. He knew I was in Israel because the people on the bus, who knew him, told him. The next day he took me with him to the construction site where he worked. He let me prepare concrete and carry it in buckets, for a long walking distance. It was very heavy, but he was not interested."
When Shahar was 12 years old his father brought him to work with him in a building and when he was 13 years old he ran away from home and did not return to the Gaza Strip until he was 19 and a half years old. He found a job as a security guard at a construction project in Rishon Lezion, where he met Nissim, who would later become his adoptive father (Lashahar has another adoptive family - Gor and Amira Zabar, and he is in contact with both families - AG), about whom he says: "He is an angel. For me, he is My father. You can't find people like him. That's why I said that we are all messengers, and for me, God sent me an angel. Later on, he and his wife taught me to read and write Hebrew, they taught me to love."
After that, Nissim invited him to celebrate the Seder night with him and his family, then Shahar made the decision to become Jewish. "I told him I wanted to be Jewish. He said to me: 'Wait, what did you say?', and I repeated the words. He was surprised by what came out of my mouth. He told me that a Jew remains a Jew, a Muslim remains a Muslim and a Christian remains a Christian, but I didn't accept that.
"Nissim understood my intentions and made an appointment with the rabbinate. The rabbi agreed to convert me but required a letter from the family because I was a minor. I explained to him that I have no contact with the family and if I ask them for such a letter, they will kill me. He instructed me to wait until I was 18. I was disappointed. A year later, when I was 17 years old, a Palestinian murdered a girl named Helena Rapp in Bat Yam and shocked the whole country. The government decided to deport all the Arabs so that there would be no revenge. Every time I saw police I would run away. After three or four months, the government decided to admit workers over the age of 40 and that meant I became an illegal worker.
"At the age of 18 I came to the rabbinical rabbi and told him I was 18 and asked him to convert me. He said that because of the security situation I need a special permit from the state to stay. I returned to live on the construction site. One day a police car stopped there and they caught me, I ran away naked, because I was in the middle of a shower. When they asked why I ran away I told them I was scared. I told them I wanted to be Jewish. They took me back to the construction site and told me to stay there. They gave me their phone and said that if I see illegal Arabs I will report them, that I will cooperate - and I agreed. They emphasized that if another policeman comes then I should say that I am from Kfar Qasim, because they are allowed."
But then the plans went wrong, as Shahar says. "At the age of 19 and a half I injured my leg at the construction site and they took me to the hospital. I had no insurance and the police questioned where I was from. The hospital demanded a high amount for the treatment and I asked the contractor who employed me to pay at least part of the amount, and he finally agreed. He asked for my address and after 40 minutes he called me and told me to come downstairs to get the money. I got off, and some four or five policemen ran in my direction and stopped me. I told them I was from Kfar Qasim. Despite this, they took me for a four-hour interrogation and I asked them to contact my operating officers, and they said they didn't know me at all. They took me to court and there I said that I want to convert and that I have been in Israel for seven years. The judge sentenced me to 45 days in jail and another ten months probation for three years. In the court there were Palestinian Arabs who stood trial and they heard everything I said and I knew exactly what they were going to do to me. They took me to Be'er Sheva prison, to the wing of the Arab prisoners with blood on their hands, people who are human animals, and they crushed me with blows. So the guards took me out to the Jews' cell.
"After 45 days, I was deported to the Erez crossing. They put me there in a small cell and I remember that all the time a person with murder in his eyes entered the cell. After that they took me for interrogation in the Gaza Strip and asked what I did for seven years in Israel and I told them I was a guard. They hung me upside down, cut me, kicked me, splashed hot and cold water on me and then sat me down - and again asked what I had done. That's half a year. Finally they took me to a family in Khan Yunis. For a whole month I walked around Khan Yunis starving and with the same clothes. I entered houses and stole food: bread, onion, tomato, whatever was available. I worked in Gaza, saved some money and ran away again. I went to Egypt and from Egypt to Turkey and from there I arrived in Israel with a Palestinian Authority passport. The police caught me and took me to Erez crossing again. Luckily, the policemen dropped me off just before the crossing, so I ran away, took a taxi, and returned to Rishon Lezion. It was a miracle for me."
So you went back to the starting point and to the construction site in Rishon Lezion?
"I started working as a security guard in Rishon Lezion, in a commercial center. After two months, they broke into the warehouses, where I worked, and I reported the break-in. The police told me all the best and wanted me to testify. The investigator praised me and said I was a good citizen, but she also said I was under arrest and they put handcuffs on me and the next day I was taken to court. The judge asked me to stand and speak, so I stood, spoke and cried. She listened to me, I told her everything, about my childhood until that day. She released me on the bail of the adoptive father."
"Not afraid of revenge"
This was the moment when Shahar's life changed. "After seven years, I received confirmation that I could study Judaism and convert and I studied at a Seder yeshiva. After ten months they sent me for an exam and I didn't know how to answer everything. The rabbi said I would go to the Meir Institute in Jerusalem and the next day I took a bag and went there. I studied with Rabbi Ouri Cherki and after a few months I went through a final conversion process and succeeded. I received an Israeli identity card. I also received a draft order and profile 97 and was destined for the paratroopers. At that time I gave an interview to some newspaper and they asked me what I would do if I was forced as a soldier to evacuate settlers and I said I would refuse, because I only want to maintain the borders of the country. As a result, they decided not to recruit me."
How did Ayman Abu Soboh become Dor Shahar?
"Dor is a name of peace and goodness. And dawn is morning. After the conversion I was called Yitzchak and before that also Amnon." Shahar, who even wrote a book about his life - "From Khan Yunis to Mount Sinai" - and lectures about it, was not surprised by the level of cruelty reached by Hamas terrorists on October 7. "When I was a child and I went to the market with my mother I saw that they cut off the heads and hands of collaborators, and hung them on electric poles, dragged them along the road while attached to cars. I was not surprised at all," he says, adding that there are not many peace-loving people in Gaza. "Most of them no longer live there, but have migrated to other countries. I remember that my grandfather used to tell me, when I was a child, that when I grow up I will have to murder Jews in order to return Jaffa because it is my inheritance. It's a matter of generations that are educated this way."
On a personal level, are you not interested in what is happening with your family?
"If something happened to them then it doesn't bother me. My family is in Israel! Here I was taught to love instead of hate, I was taught to enjoy life and not to die and to be a martyr. There were murderers among them even before the establishment of the state. First they would throw stones, after that there was the Oslo agreement, because we wanted peace with the Palestinians. The weapons they received were directed against Israelis. We disengaged from Gaza and received missiles."
Are you afraid of revenge, that they might search for you?
"I'm not afraid and I'm not counting them."
Are you optimistic about Israeli-Palestinian relations in the future?
"No. In my childhood I saw a lot of violence, scenes that are hard to describe. If this is what they did to their people, then you will understand for yourself."
Dor Shahar, who was born in Khan Yunis under the name of Ayman Abu Subuh, converted and now lives in Israel, returns to his childhood in the Gaza Strip, to the education he received to hate Jews, to his escape to Israel and to the meeting with his adoptive father, following which he decided to convert.
"There are no citizens in Gaza who would go against Hamas. If necessary, they will kill Jews, Christians and Muslims," says Dor Shahar (46), who was born in Khan Yunis under the name Ayman Abu Subuh, fled to Israel, converted and now lives in Rishon Lezion. According to him, "In Gaza they belong to organizations such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, PLO, Tanzim and the like. All these organizations support the murder of Jews. Several of these organizations entered the Gaza Strip. It's a religious war, they want to take over the whole world." As a child, Shahar learned that the Jews were murderers who took the land of his ancestors and that we had to fight them. "I remember that once Israeli soldiers joined us for a soccer game in the neighborhood, I was maybe 6 years old," he says. "After the game was over, a soldier called me, put something in my palm and closed it. After a few seconds I opened my palm and saw a candy. I opened it and ate it and it was delicious. I took the wrapper to my house and showed it to my father, because I wanted him to buy me such candies. My father asked me where this cover came from and I told him I got it from the Jews, from the soldiers. He got up and out of anger he warned me that next time I won't take it because the soldiers can put poison in it."
At the age of 7, says Shahar, a new teacher came to the class at school. "He said there was a special lesson today and I was happy because I thought he would teach us to be doctors. He started talking and said that Jews are murderers of children, men, women and old people. He said, the Jews took your grandfather's land and you will fight for it and whoever dies will be a martyr and go to heaven. He also said that the Jews were Muslims and became infidels. The thing that caught me in particular was when he said that Jews have three legs." It's a bit frightening to receive such a dose of intimidation at such a young age, and from an authority figure. "Right. At that moment I felt bad. My happiness turned into a nightmare and I told the teacher that I didn't feel well. He slapped me on the cheek and took me to the manager's room. The manager asked me to face the wall, hit me with a rubber whip and it burned. He demanded that my father come with me to school. The next day my father came with me to school and entered the principal's room with me. He beat me and told me that Jews should be killed." It is possible that your father was afraid of the Fatah apparatus, which was in the leadership At that time, or did he really believe with all his heart that this was the way to educate?
"My father worked for 27 years in Israel and yet in our house they glorified the murder of Jews. Even in the school books it is written that you should behave this way because the Jews took the land from the Palestinians. When I got home, I saw that my father had hung a rope from the ceiling and threatened to hang me. He also lit a gas stove there and threatened to burn me. My mother was not allowed to interfere." Despite his father's threats, Shahar did not comply with his demands. "It's like the story of our father Abraham. In retrospect, it's like 'Go away from your country and your homeland and your father's house.' The Jews are endangered. We are all messengers in this world."
The return to Gaza
At the age of 11, Shahar was exposed to the Israelis, when he boarded a bus to Israel without his parents' knowledge. "I was intrigued to see those Jews with three legs. I arrived at 06:30 in the morning and saw in the city of Rishon Lezion a couple taking a morning walk. They passed by me and I looked closely, looking for their third leg," he says. "Towards evening I returned home and saw my father. It was strange because he was supposed to return on Thursday. He asked me where I was and I told him, with the sheep. He He told me: Don't lie! But he didn't punish me but simply told me to go to sleep. He knew I was in Israel because the people on the bus, who knew him, told him. The next day he took me with him to the construction site where he worked. He let me prepare concrete and carry it in buckets, for a long walking distance. It was very heavy, but he was not interested."
When Shahar was 12 years old his father brought him to work with him in a building and when he was 13 years old he ran away from home and did not return to the Gaza Strip until he was 19 and a half years old. He found a job as a security guard at a construction project in Rishon Lezion, where he met Nissim, who would later become his adoptive father (Lashahar has another adoptive family - Gor and Amira Zabar, and he is in contact with both families - AG), about whom he says: "He is an angel. For me, he is My father. You can't find people like him. That's why I said that we are all messengers, and for me, God sent me an angel. Later on, he and his wife taught me to read and write Hebrew, they taught me to love."
After that, Nissim invited him to celebrate the Seder night with him and his family, then Shahar made the decision to become Jewish. "I told him I wanted to be Jewish. He said to me: 'Wait, what did you say?', and I repeated the words. He was surprised by what came out of my mouth. He told me that a Jew remains a Jew, a Muslim remains a Muslim and a Christian remains a Christian, but I didn't accept that.
"Nissim understood my intentions and made an appointment with the rabbinate. The rabbi agreed to convert me but required a letter from the family because I was a minor. I explained to him that I have no contact with the family and if I ask them for such a letter, they will kill me. He instructed me to wait until I was 18. I was disappointed. A year later, when I was 17 years old, a Palestinian murdered a girl named Helena Rapp in Bat Yam and shocked the whole country. The government decided to deport all the Arabs so that there would be no revenge. Every time I saw police I would run away. After three or four months, the government decided to admit workers over the age of 40 and that meant I became an illegal worker.
"At the age of 18 I came to the rabbinical rabbi and told him I was 18 and asked him to convert me. He said that because of the security situation I need a special permit from the state to stay. I returned to live on the construction site. One day a police car stopped there and they caught me, I ran away naked, because I was in the middle of a shower. When they asked why I ran away I told them I was scared. I told them I wanted to be Jewish. They took me back to the construction site and told me to stay there. They gave me their phone and said that if I see illegal Arabs I will report them, that I will cooperate - and I agreed. They emphasized that if another policeman comes then I should say that I am from Kfar Qasim, because they are allowed."
But then the plans went wrong, as Shahar says. "At the age of 19 and a half I injured my leg at the construction site and they took me to the hospital. I had no insurance and the police questioned where I was from. The hospital demanded a high amount for the treatment and I asked the contractor who employed me to pay at least part of the amount, and he finally agreed. He asked for my address and after 40 minutes he called me and told me to come downstairs to get the money. I got off, and some four or five policemen ran in my direction and stopped me. I told them I was from Kfar Qasim. Despite this, they took me for a four-hour interrogation and I asked them to contact my operating officers, and they said they didn't know me at all. They took me to court and there I said that I want to convert and that I have been in Israel for seven years. The judge sentenced me to 45 days in jail and another ten months probation for three years. In the court there were Palestinian Arabs who stood trial and they heard everything I said and I knew exactly what they were going to do to me. They took me to Be'er Sheva prison, to the wing of the Arab prisoners with blood on their hands, people who are human animals, and they crushed me with blows. So the guards took me out to the Jews' cell.
"After 45 days, I was deported to the Erez crossing. They put me there in a small cell and I remember that all the time a person with murder in his eyes entered the cell. After that they took me for interrogation in the Gaza Strip and asked what I did for seven years in Israel and I told them I was a guard. They hung me upside down, cut me, kicked me, splashed hot and cold water on me and then sat me down - and again asked what I had done. That's half a year. Finally they took me to a family in Khan Yunis. For a whole month I walked around Khan Yunis starving and with the same clothes. I entered houses and stole food: bread, onion, tomato, whatever was available. I worked in Gaza, saved some money and ran away again. I went to Egypt and from Egypt to Turkey and from there I arrived in Israel with a Palestinian Authority passport. The police caught me and took me to Erez crossing again. Luckily, the policemen dropped me off just before the crossing, so I ran away, took a taxi, and returned to Rishon Lezion. It was a miracle for me."
So you went back to the starting point and to the construction site in Rishon Lezion?
"I started working as a security guard in Rishon Lezion, in a commercial center. After two months, they broke into the warehouses, where I worked, and I reported the break-in. The police told me all the best and wanted me to testify. The investigator praised me and said I was a good citizen, but she also said I was under arrest and they put handcuffs on me and the next day I was taken to court. The judge asked me to stand and speak, so I stood, spoke and cried. She listened to me, I told her everything, about my childhood until that day. She released me on the bail of the adoptive father."
"Not afraid of revenge"
This was the moment when Shahar's life changed. "After seven years, I received confirmation that I could study Judaism and convert and I studied at a Seder yeshiva. After ten months they sent me for an exam and I didn't know how to answer everything. The rabbi said I would go to the Meir Institute in Jerusalem and the next day I took a bag and went there. I studied with Rabbi Ouri Cherki and after a few months I went through a final conversion process and succeeded. I received an Israeli identity card. I also received a draft order and profile 97 and was destined for the paratroopers. At that time I gave an interview to some newspaper and they asked me what I would do if I was forced as a soldier to evacuate settlers and I said I would refuse, because I only want to maintain the borders of the country. As a result, they decided not to recruit me."
How did Ayman Abu Soboh become Dor Shahar?
"Dor is a name of peace and goodness. And dawn is morning. After the conversion I was called Yitzchak and before that also Amnon." Shahar, who even wrote a book about his life - "From Khan Yunis to Mount Sinai" - and lectures about it, was not surprised by the level of cruelty reached by Hamas terrorists on October 7. "When I was a child and I went to the market with my mother I saw that they cut off the heads and hands of collaborators, and hung them on electric poles, dragged them along the road while attached to cars. I was not surprised at all," he says, adding that there are not many peace-loving people in Gaza. "Most of them no longer live there, but have migrated to other countries. I remember that my grandfather used to tell me, when I was a child, that when I grow up I will have to murder Jews in order to return Jaffa because it is my inheritance. It's a matter of generations that are educated this way."
On a personal level, are you not interested in what is happening with your family?
"If something happened to them then it doesn't bother me. My family is in Israel! Here I was taught to love instead of hate, I was taught to enjoy life and not to die and to be a martyr. There were murderers among them even before the establishment of the state. First they would throw stones, after that there was the Oslo agreement, because we wanted peace with the Palestinians. The weapons they received were directed against Israelis. We disengaged from Gaza and received missiles."
Are you afraid of revenge, that they might search for you?
"I'm not afraid and I'm not counting them."
Are you optimistic about Israeli-Palestinian relations in the future?
"No. In my childhood I saw a lot of violence, scenes that are hard to describe. If this is what they did to their people, then you will understand for yourself."
"הם רוצים להשתלט על העולם": סיפורו המדהים של העזתי שברח לישראל
דור שחר, שנולד בחאן יונס בשם איימן אבו סובוח, התגייר וחי כיום בישראל, חוזר אל ילדותו ברצועת עזה, לחינוך לשנאת יהודים שקיבל, לבריחה לישראל ולמפגש עם אביו המאמץ שבעקבותיו החליט להתגייר
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