Islam forbids

[Kalam]

Yawn.

It may be that Allah will bring about friendship between you and those of them whom you hold as enemies. And Allah is Powerful; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Allah forbids you not respecting those who fight you not for religion, nor drive you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly. Surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

Allah forbids you only respecting those who fight you for religion, and drive you forth from your homes and help in your expulsion, that you make friends of them; and whoever makes friends of them, these are the wrongdoers. - 60:7-9​

 

[Ceasaro]

“It has been demonstrated for you that inequitable treatment of others is forbidden by Islam.”

Kalam, our favorite fake muslim is at it again. OK, so if your above statement is true, then why are women in islam so badly treated? Why don’t the men wear a niqab too? And get stoned for getting raped...

“My non-Mu'tazili friends (essentially all of my Muslim friends) don't have a problem with my beliefs. They are capable of disagreeing with me respectfully, as my non-Muslim friends are.”

But they still know you’re not a real muslim. You probably don't even have a big bushy beard.

 

[JW Frogen]

See, I really don’t get religious fundamentalism of any kind? Islam or otherwise.

If we are going to go all fundamental rather than evolutional why not just ask what the first ape who (it) climbed down from the trees and cleaved his fellow ape with a rock thinks?

Or we can go with the apes that want to walk away from all that?

Just a thought.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Yawn.

It may be that Allah will bring about friendship between you and those of them whom you hold as enemies. And Allah is Powerful; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Allah forbids you not respecting those who fight you not for religion, nor drive you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly. Surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

Allah forbids you only respecting those who fight you for religion, and drive you forth from your homes and help in your expulsion, that you make friends of them; and whoever makes friends of them, these are the wrongdoers. - 60:7-9​

That would be great if that were the final statement in the Quran ,It is not,
If you want to say you have non muslims friends, feel to to say so.
Sura 60
The Noble Quran

is abrogated by sura 9 and 5

The Noble Quran : Surat 9
The Noble Quran : Surat 5

We have proven that disbelief is an act of rebellion against allah, whose injustice must be dealt with by muslims, true believers.
We have proven you fail to make rational scripture based interpretations
This is a good time to introduce :
the Treaty of Hudaybiyya, which states .
3. If any Makkan accepts Islam and seeks sanctuary with the Muslims in Medina, they would extradite him to Makkah. But if a Muslim, fleeing from Medina, seeks sanctuary with the pagans in Makkah, they would not extradite him.
As history shows
Umm Kulthum, joined the muslims in Medina, and her two brothers came to claim her as provided in the treaty, Muhammad refused to return her,claim she was a women and not a man so the treaty did not apply, thus began the Islamic practice of hairsplitting .Eventually Mohammad starting taking men from mecca as well. truly breaking the treaty.

 

[mal]

“It has been demonstrated for you that inequitable treatment of others is forbidden by Islam.”

Kalam, our favorite fake muslim is at it again. OK, so if your above statement is true, then why are women in islam so badly treated? Why don’t the men wear a niqab too? And get stoned for getting raped...

“My non-Mu'tazili friends (essentially all of my Muslim friends) don't have a problem with my beliefs. They are capable of disagreeing with me respectfully, as my non-Muslim friends are.”

But they still know you’re not a real muslim. You probably don't even have a big bushy beard.

You don't Expect an Answer to that, do you?...



peace...

 

[Fatality]

"Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me? Then Moses said: Be not wroth with me that I forgot, and be not hard upon me for my fault, and then they proceeded further and found a boy playing with other boys. Al-Khadir took hold of the boy's head from the top and plucked it out with his hands (i.e. decapitated him). Moses said, "Have you killed an innocent soul who has killed none."

al khidar's response for the murder of the child:

"As for the boy, his parents are believers, and we were afraid lest he should impose on them with his insolence and disbelief"

Tell me, what act of "hostility" did the child commit, or would have committed according to al khidar? I mean its pretty clear but let’s let you blurt it out.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for some one to prove unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent.

 

[Wize Owl]

it would be easier and shorter to list what Islam DOES allow. Not much from what I can tell.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

[http://www.usmessageboard.com/1388843-post692.html.

That is just hystirical your sources for the scripture are incomplete excepts from Sir William Muir ,compiled and weaved into a story?
Here is the complete Muir comments concerning the satanic verses.
It says something vastly different then MM Ali's paraphrasing.

The life of Mahomet and history of ... - Google Books[/QUOTE]

I think it bears repeating that "kalam's" proof consists mainly of a commentary whose main thrust that has been lifted in part, leaving out the entire main part of Muir's argument and the scriptural evidence.
Paraphrasing some moot question about Mohammad and Islam as if that were Muir's position,
Simply shameful and should bring into question the intellectual and academic power and honesty of muslims in general and of the mutz cult in particular.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1388843-post692.html
Handcrafting history for political purposes

BUSTED
I do not attack anyones religion, I only ask for real proof that non muslims are innocent when one considers the popular sentiment "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people."
This proof must include legal decisions from the ulema, Fatwas that reverse the Quran that states

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

Index of /what-is-islam/quran/noble

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Which abrogate 2:256, which was uttered in 614 AD and abrogated in 627 AD
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u702axfbQao&feature=related]YouTube - Islam: What the West Needs to Know - Pt.2[/ame]

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

As Muslims, our job is to establish once again the "Khilafat ‘Ala Minhaj-e-Risalat" which requires people to follow Allah’s laws. However, those who want to lead this effort must first bring their own lives under the fold of the laws of Allah.

Bazm-e-Tolu-e-Islam
ALLAMA GHULAM AHMAD PARWEZ
the auther of the documents on
http://www.mutazila.com/
Excerpted from the website description:

The purpose of creating this page is to compile and preserve literature of Muslim scholars, who are commonly labeled as Modernist, Rationalist, Quran-only, Reformist, Anti-Hadith, or Mutazila.
Seems to be no contratiction,

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

Index of /what-is-islam/quran/noble

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

As far as ahaadith are concerned, Tolu-e-Islam considers all those ahaadith as true which are in accordance with the Quran or which do not stain the character of the Prophet (P) or his companions (R).
Bazm-e-Tolu-e-Islam

Not what I call a critical standard for truth.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

The Noble Quran : Surat 68
Clearly allah swears on a "Pen" that mohammad is not a mad man.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I for one never doubted your intent, Theft, Imprisonment, Torture, Rape, and Murder, for all that offend your ego. Totalitarianism for beginners. You and your translation are pathetic. You have no place in civilization. Live by the sword, die by it.

Who are you talking to?

 

[Sunni Man]

I for one never doubted your intent, Theft, Imprisonment, Torture, Rape, and Murder, for all that offend your ego. Totalitarianism for beginners. You and your translation are pathetic. You have no place in civilization. Live by the sword, die by it.

Who are you talking to?

Most likely to himself

 

[Kalam]

Tolu-e-Islam is not a Mu'tazili group; they are a distinct movement that happens to share our belief in Qur'anic primacy. G. A. Parwez isn't the author of the website, fool, he's been dead for over 20 years. The site simply provides links to some of his works.

Abrogation was disproved, and you have done nothing to refute the argument I provided concerning it. I'll now leave you to talk to yourself and wallow in your stupidity.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Tolu-e-Islam is not a Mu'tazili group; they are a distinct movement that happens to share our belief in Qur'anic primacy. G. A. Parwez isn't the author of the website, fool, he's been dead for over 20 years. The site simply provides links to some of his works.

About quran.com is directly involved with promoting GA Parwez it is at the bottom of pretty much every page at
Quran: The Constitution for Humanity

Quran: The Constitution for Humanity

edit Description

Excerpted from the website description:

The purpose of creating this page is to compile and preserve literature of Muslim scholars, who are commonly labeled as Modernist, Rationalist, Quran-only, Reformist, Anti-Hadith, or Mutazila.
Aboutquran.com - AboutUs Wiki Page

Related Domains

Parvez-Video.com.

Who is the author of the site you link to?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Abrogation was disproved, and you have done nothing to refute the argument I provided concerning it.

Since you brought it up.


An example of the abrogation: there are 124 versus that call for tolerance and patience which have been canceled and replaced by this one single verse:

9.5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quran, there are only 43 Surahs that were not affected by this concept.

This doctrine is based on the Quran, where Allah allegedly says in Surah 2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allâh is able to do all things?

Also, in Surah
16101. And when We change a Verse [of the Qur'ân, i.e. cancel (abrogate) its order] in place of another, and Allâh knows the best of what He sends down, they (the disbelievers) say: "You (O Muhammad SAW) are but a Muftari! (forger, liar)." Nay, but most of them know not.
The Noble Quran : Surat 16

The Abrogator and the Abrogated
In their attempt to polish Islam's image, Muslim activists usually quote the Meccan passages of the Quran that call for love, peace and patience. The deliberately hid the Medenan passages that call for killing, decapitating, and maiming.

Muslim activists also fail to reveal to people in the West a major doctrine in Islam called "al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh" (the Abrogator and the Abrogated). This simply means that when a recent verse in the Quran gives a contradictory view to another verse that preceded it (chronologically), the recent verse abrogates (cancels and replaces) the old verse and renders it null and void.

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir


[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say,“if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah,(2) nor in the Last Day,(3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad),(4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29]

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219


Islam Question and Answer - There is no compulsion to accept Islam

Refuted.

 

[Kalam]

An example of the abrogation: there are 124 versus that call for tolerance and patience which have been canceled and replaced by this one single verse:

9.5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Your argument once again falls flat because it depends on 9:5 being removed from its proper context. Specific guidelines are detailed in the ayat close to the passage in question; namely, that the mushrikuun being slain must be those who are guilty of all of the following:

A. Refusing to reach an agreement with Muslims (9:1, 9:4, 9:7)
B. Breaking their promises to and treaties with Muslims (9:8, 9:10, 9:12 9:13)
C. Reviling Islam (9:12)
C. Initiating hostilities with Muslims. (9:13)

Ayat cited, emphasis mine:

A declaration of immunity from Allah and His Messenger to those of the Idolaters with whom you made an agreement. - 9:1

Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you; so fulfil their agreement to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves those who keep their duty. - 9:4

How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with his Messenger, except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them. Surely Allah loves those who keep their duty. - 9:7

How (can it be)? And if they prevail against you, they respect neither ties of relationship nor covenant in your case. They would please you with their mouths while their hearts refuse; and most of them are transgressors. - 9:8

They respect neither ties of relationship nor covenant, in the case of a believer. And these are they who go beyond the limits. - 9:10

And if they break their oaths after their agreement and revile your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief -- surely their oaths are nothing -- so that they may desist. - 9:12

Will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Messenger, and they attacked you first? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right than you should fear Him, if you are believers. - 9:13​

Basically, abiding by the half-brained beliefs you support requires ignoring the entire remainder of the Surah at-Tawba's beginning section.

Quran, there are only 43 Surahs that were not affected by this concept.

False. We've now established that 9:5 does not bear the significance you mistakenly assumed it did.

This doctrine is based on the Quran, where Allah allegedly says in Surah 2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allâh is able to do all things?

Already addressed in the argument you clearly still have yet to read.

The other verse which is supposed to lend support to the theory runs thus: "Whatever message we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or one like it" (2:106). A reference to the context will show that the Jews or the followers of previous revelations are here addressed. Of these it is said: "they say: We believe in that which was revealed to us; and they deny what is besides that" (2:91). So they were told that if a certain revelation was abrogated, it was only to give place to a better one. And there is mention not only of abrogation but also of something that was forgotten. The words "or cause to be forgotten" cannot refer to the Qur'an at all because no portion of it could be said to have been forgotten so as to require a new revelation in its place. There is no point in supposing that God should make the Prophet forget a verse and then reveal a new one in its place. Why not, if he really had forgotten a verse, remind him of the one forgotten? But even if it is supposed that his memory ever failed in retaining (which really never happened), that verse was quite safely preserved in writing, and the mere failure of memory could not necessitate a new revelation. That the Prophet never forgot what was recited to him is plainly stated in the Qur'an: "We shall make the recite, so thou shalt not forget" (87:6). History also bears out the fact that he never forgot any portion of the Qur'anic revelation. Sometimes the whole of a very long chapter would be revealed to him in one portion, as in the case of the sixth chapter which extends over twenty sections, but he would cause it to be written without delay, and make his companions learn it by heart, and recite it in public prayers, and that without the change of even a letter, notwithstanding the fact that he himself could not read from a written copy, nor did the written copies, as a rule, remain in his possession. It was a miracle indeed that he never forgot any portion of the Qur'an, though other things he might forget, and it is to his forgetfulness in other things that the words except what Allah pleases, in the next verse (87:7), refer. On the other hand, it is a fact that parts of the older revelations had been utterly lost and forgotten, and thus the Qur'an was needed to take the place of that which was abrogated, and that which had been forgotten by the world.

Also, in Surah
16101.

That's addressed in the same argument, Copernicus:

That certain verses of the Qur'an are abrogated by others is now an exploded theory. The two passages on which it was supposed to rest, refer, really, to the abrogation, not of the Qur'an but of the previous revelations whose place the Holy Book had taken. The first verse is contained in the sixteenth chapter (al-Nahl) - a Makkah revelation - and runs thus: "And when We change a message for a message, - and Allah knows best what He reveals - they say: Thou art only a forger" (16:101). It is a fact that details of the Islamic law were revealed at Madinah and it is in relation to these details that the theory of abrogation has been broached. Therefore, a Makkah revelation would not speak of abrogation. But the reference in the above verse is to the abrogation, not of the Qur'anic verses but of the previous Divine messages or revelations, consequent upon revelation of the Qur'an. The context shows this clearly to be the case, for the opponents are here made to say that the Prophet was a forger. He was so accused by the opponents not because he announced the abrogation of certain verses in the Qur'an but because he claimed that the Qur'an was a divine revelation which had taken the place of previous revelations. They argued that it was not a revelation at all: "Only a mortal teaches him" (16:103). According to them the whole of the Qur'an, and not merely a particular verse of it, was a forgery. The theory of abrogation, therefore, cannot be based on this verse which speaks only of one revelation or one law taking the place of another.

The Abrogator and the Abrogated
In their attempt to polish Islam's image, Muslim activists usually quote the Meccan passages of the Quran that call for love, peace and patience. The deliberately hid the Medenan passages that call for killing, decapitating, and maiming.

Muslim activists also fail to reveal to people in the West a major doctrine in Islam called "al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh" (the Abrogator and the Abrogated). This simply means that when a recent verse in the Quran gives a contradictory view to another verse that preceded it (chronologically), the recent verse abrogates (cancels and replaces) the old verse and renders it null and void.

I just checked, sir; I'm afraid your argument is still false. Please try another.

Refuted.

LMAO




(Bracing for new batch of copy-pasted inanities...)

 

[Kalam]

Tolu-e-Islam is not a Mu'tazili group; they are a distinct movement that happens to share our belief in Qur'anic primacy. G. A. Parwez isn't the author of the website, fool, he's been dead for over 20 years. The site simply provides links to some of his works.

About quran.com is directly involved with promoting GA Parwez it is at the bottom of pretty much every page at
Quran: The Constitution for Humanity

Quran: The Constitution for Humanity

edit Description

Excerpted from the website description:

The purpose of creating this page is to compile and preserve literature of Muslim scholars, who are commonly labeled as Modernist, Rationalist, Quran-only, Reformist, Anti-Hadith, or Mutazila.
Aboutquran.com - AboutUs Wiki Page

Related Domains

Parvez-Video.com.

Who is the author of the site you link to?

Dunno. Email him/her and ask.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

yak yak yak

That is one interpretation.
I do not find it has any merit.
It does not conform with the harmony of the Quran, nor does it reflect the character of Mohammad.
The traditional understanding is thus.

Existing Peace Treaties remained valid until the End of Their Term

This is an exception regulating the longest extent of time for those who have a general treaty - with out time mentioned - to four months.

They would have four months to travel the lands in search of sanctuary for themselves wherever they wish. Those whose treaty mentioned a specifec limited term, then the longest it would extend was to the point of its agreed upon termination date.

Hadiths in this regard preceeded. So anyone who had a treaty with Allah's Messenger , it lasted until its specific termination date. However, those in this category were required to refrain from breaking the terms of the agreement with Muslims and from helping non-Muslims against Muslims. This is the type whose peace agreement with Muslims was carried out to its end. Allah encouraged honoring such peace treaties, saying,



(Surely, Allah loves those who have Taqwa) ﴿9:4﴾, who keep their promises.)



(5. So when the Sacred Months have passed, then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform the Salah, and give the Zakah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

This is the Ayah of the Sword


Mujahid, `Amr bin Shu`ayb, Muhammad bin Ishaq, Qatadah, As-Suddi and `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said that the four months mentioned in this Ayah are the four-month grace period mentioned in the earlier Ayah,


(So travel freely for four months throughout the land.) Allah said next,

(So when the Sacred Months have passed...), meaning, `Upon the end of the four months during which We prohibited you from fighting the idolators, and which is the grace period We gave them, then fight and kill the idolators wherever you may find them.' Allah's statement next,


(then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them), means, on the earth in general, except for the Sacred Area, for Allah said,

(And fight not with them at Al-Masjid Al-Haram, unless they fight you there. But if they attack you, then fight them. )﴿2:191﴾ Allah said here,

(and capture them), executing some and keeping some as prisoners,

(and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush), do not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam,


Who performs Salah, and gives Zakah?

Only muslims

Conforming with the harmony of the Quran.
8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

Index of /what-is-islam/quran/noble

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir