Islam forbids

[Mr.Fitnah]

25. Crooked reasoning.

Do not indulge in absurd reasoning. Present your case with clear arguments, reasons, wisdom and exhortation. (16:125) "Invite people to the way of your Sustainer with wisdom and exhortation; talk to them in an elegant manner, keeping before yourselves the aims and objects of the Divine Laws and of the moral values."

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Another example of quranic abrogation.

Disapproval

4:43. O you who believe! Approach not As Salât (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter, nor when you are in a state of Janâba, (i.e. in a state of sexual impurity and have not yet taken a bath) except when travelling on the road (without enough water, or just passing through a mosque), till you wash your whole body. And if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you comes after answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (by sexual relations) and you find no water, perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands (Tayammum)[]. Truly, Allâh is Ever Oft Pardoning, Oft Forgiving.

Banning

5:90. O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, Al Ansâb[], and Al Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitân's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful[].

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

"Kalam" everyone who has read your post knows you disagree with establish traditional Islamic theory.
Naskh is a fact.

 

[Kalam]

That is one interpretation.

It's the only interpretation that doesn't fail to take all surrounding ayat into account. It's the proper Qur'anic interpretation.

I do not find it has any merit.

Of course you don't; if you were intellectually honest enough to admit that you were wrong, you wouldn't be here.

It does not conform with the harmony of the Quran,

It absolutely does. Injunctions forbidding aggressive warfare are present throughout the book.

nor does it reflect the character of Mohammad.
The traditional understanding is thus.

Ibn Kathir lived 500 years after Hashimi, Ma'mun's cousin, who apparently thought it okay to cite the supposedly "abrogated" ayah 2:256 -

"bring forward all the arguments you wish and say whatever you please and
speak your mind freely. Now that you are safe and free to say whatever you
please appoint some arbitrator who will impartially judge between us and lean
only towards the truth and be free from the empery of passion, and that arbitrator
shall be Reason, whereby God makes us responsible for our own rewards and
punishments. Herein I have dealt justly with you and have given you full security
and am ready to accept whatever decision Reason may give for me or against me.
For "There is no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256) and I have only invited
you to accept our faith willingly and of your own accord and have pointed out the
hideousness of your present belief. Peace be with you and the blessings of God!"

http://www.minaret.org/ifrane.pdf​

Abrogation was the product of a failure to properly understand the Qur'anic message. It was apparently understood in the 9th century, and it is properly understood now. What a shame it is that Ibn Kathir's flawed tafsir gained as much popularity as it did.

(then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them), means, on the earth in general, except for the Sacred Area, for Allah said,

An explanation that utterly fails to consider the relevant ayat I presented.

Conforming with the harmony of the Quran.
8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do

And if thou fear treachery on the part of a people, throw back to them (their treaty) on terms of equality. Surely Allah loves not the treacherous. - 8:58

And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Surely he is the Hearer, the Knower. And if they intend to deceive thee, then surely Allah is sufficient for thee. He it is Who strengthened thee with His help and with the believers. - 8:61-62​

2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. - 2:190​

And, of course:

There is no compulsion in religion -- the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error. So whoever disbelieves in the devil and believes in Allah, he indeed lays hold on the firmest handle which shall never break. And Allah is Hearing, Knowing. - 2:256​

 

[Kalam]

4:43. O you who believe! Approach not As Salât (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state

سُكَٰرَىٰ

"Sukaraa" can be used to refer to any state of confusion and is not specific to intoxication with alcohol.

 

[Kalam]

"Kalam" everyone who has read your post knows you disagree with establish traditional Islamic theory.
Naskh is a fact.

What is traditional is by no means established. It's a poor reflection on the current state of Islam if relying on the Qur'an is considered a break from the status quo.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

No Compulsion in Religion


Allah said,

﴿لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّينِ﴾


(There is no compulsion in religion), meaning, "Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear, and its proofs and evidence are plain and clear. Therefore, there is no need to force anyone to embrace Islam. Rather, whoever Allah directs to Islam, opens his heart for it and enlightens his mind, will embrace Islam with certainty. Whoever Allah blinds his heart and seals his hearing and sight, then he will not benefit from being forced to embrace Islam.''


It was reported that the Ansar were the reason behind revealing this Ayah, although its indication is general in meaning. Ibn Jarir recorded that Ibn `Abbas said ﴿that before Islam﴾, "When (an Ansar) woman would not bear children who would live, she would vow that if she gives birth to a child who remains alive, she would raise him as a Jew. When Banu An-Nadir (the Jewish tribe) were evacuated ﴿from Al-Madinah﴾, some of the children of the Ansar were being raised among them, and the Ansar said, `We will not abandon our children.' Allah revealed,


﴿لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ﴾


(There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path.)''


Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i also recorded this Hadith. As for the Hadith that Imam Ahmad recorded, in which Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said to a man,


«أَسْلِم»


قَالَ: إِنِّي أَجِدُنِي كَارِهًا قَالَ:


«وَإِنْ كُنْتَ كَارِهًا»


("Embrace Islam.'' The man said, "I dislike it.'' The Prophet said, "Even if you dislike it.'')


First, this is an authentic Hadith, with only three narrators between Imam Ahmad and the Prophet . However, it is not relevant to the subject under discussion, for the Prophet did not force that man to become Muslim. The Prophet merely invited this man to become Muslim, and he replied that he does not find himself eager to become Muslim. The Prophet said to the man that even though he dislikes embracing Islam, he should still embrace it, `for Allah will grant you sincerity and true intent.'

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

9:29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

The Order to fight People of the Scriptures until They give the Jizyah

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Paying Jizyah is a Sign of Kufr and Disgrace
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
sounds like compulsion to me.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

"Kalam" everyone who has read your post knows you disagree with establish traditional Islamic theory.
Naskh is a fact.

What is traditional is by no means established. It's a poor reflection on the current state of Islam if relying on the Qur'an is considered a break from the status quo.

Please provide any scholary work that renouncs Ibn kathirs work as lies.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

4:43. O you who believe! Approach not As Salât (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state

سُكَٰرَىٰ

"Sukaraa" can be used to refer to any state of confusion and is not specific to intoxication with alcohol.

Quraan Transliteration
O you who believe! Approach not As Salāt (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of

 

[Fatality]

Islam (obviously) forbids intelligent muslims from posting here.

you mean there is such a thing?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

4:43. O you who believe! Approach not As Salât (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state

سُكَٰرَىٰ

"Sukaraa" can be used to refer to any state of confusion and is not specific to intoxication with alcohol.

Dont torture the Quran.

37– MAKING WRONG INTERPRETATION OF THE QUR’AN
“Tafsir” means informing and discovering. It is the process of informing and explaining. “Tawil” means pulling back or escaping. “Tafsir “ comes to mean giving a meaning.

“Tawil” is selection of one of the meaning among many meanings. It is not permissible (Jaiz) to make “Tafsir” according to one’s own opinion. “Tafsir” is performed according to the rules of transmission (“Riwayat” or “Nakl”). On the other hand, “Tawil” is done according to one’s knowledge and capabilities. In one hadith, Rasulullah, peace be upon him, said, “A person who interprets the Qur’an according to his own opinion is in clear error even if he is right.”

It is not correct to say such and such is the meaning of the speech (Kalam) of Allahu ta’ala without investigating first whether that such and such is in any way commented by Rasulullah, peace be upon him, or by his companions or that whether it conforms to the interpretations

(Tafsirs) of the previous scholars or to the methodology of the knowledge of interpretation, or without knowing the Arabic language that was spoken at the time of Rasulullah, peace be upon him, i.e., the “Quraish” dialect, or without thinking about reality (Haqiqat) and metaphoric (Majaz) aspects of it, or without being able to differentiate whether it is general, personal, concise (Mujmal), or detailed (Mufassal), and without investigating the reason of why that such and such verse (Ayat) was revealed, or whether it is “Nasih” or “Mansuh.” “Tafsir” means one’s being able to understand from the sayings of Allahu ta’ala what Allahu ta’ala meant with that saying.
ETHICS OF ISLAM

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

"Kalam" everyone who has read your post knows you disagree with establish traditional Islamic theory.
Naskh is a fact.

What is traditional is by no means established. It's a poor reflection on the current state of Islam if relying on the Qur'an is considered a break from the status quo.

According to your sig link website it is not Mu'tazilis

By the end of the ninth century, Mu'tazilis were subjected to vehement attacks from the right (the traditionalists) and from the left (the atheists, deists, philosophers, non-Muslim thinkers, etc.).

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

It may, superficially, appear distasteful to copulate with a woman who is not a man's legal wife, but once Shariat makes something lawful, we have to accept it as lawful, whether it appeals to our taste, or not; and whether we know its underlying wisdom or not. It is necessary for a Muslim to be acquainted with the laws of Shariat, but it is not necessary for him to delve into each law in order to find the underlying wisdom of these laws because knowledge of the wisdom of some of the laws may be beyond his puny comprehension. Allah Ta'ala has said in the Holy Quran:“Wa maa ooteetum min al-ilm illaa qaleelan” which means, more or less, that, "You have been given a very small portion of knowledge”. Hence, if a person fails to comprehend the underlying wisdom of any law of Shariat, he cannot regard it as a fault of Shariat (Allah forbid), on the contrary, it is the fault of his own perception and lack of understanding, because no law of Shariat is contradictory to wisdom.

Nevertheless, the wisdom underlying the permission granted by Shariat to copulate with a slave woman is as follows: The LEGAL possession that a Muslim receives over a slave woman from the “Ameerul-Mu'mineen”(the Islamic Head of State) gives him legal credence to have coition with the slave woman in his possession, just as the marriage ceremony gives him legal credence to have coition with his wife. In other words, this LEGAL POSSESSION is, in effect, a SUBSTITUTE of the MARRIAGE CEREMONY. A free woman cannot be 'possessed', bought or sold like other possessions; therefore Shariat instituted a 'marriage ceremony' in which affirmation and consent takes place, which gives a man the right to copulate with her. On the other hand, a slave girl can be possessed and even bought and sold, thus, this right of possession, substituting as a marriage ceremony, entitles the owner to copulate with her. A similar example can be found in the slaughtering of animals; that after a formal slaughtering process, in which the words,“Bismillahi Allahu Akbar” are recited, goats, cows, etc.; become “Halaal” and lawful for consumption, whereas fish becomes “Halaal” merely through 'possession' which substitutes for the slaughtering.

In other words, just as legal possession of a fish that has been fished out of the water, makes it Halaal for human consumption without the initiation of a formal slaughtering process; similarly legal possession of a slave woman made her Halaal for the purpose of coition with her owner without the initiation of a formal marriage ceremony.

In short, permission to have intercourse with a slave woman was not something barbaric or uncivilised; on the contrary, it was almost as good as a marriage ceremony.

Ask-Imam.com > Beliefs and Practices (Aqeedah) > Question 14421 from United States

If there is no Islamic leader of the state no permission is necessary

 

[Sunni Man]

So what ????

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

So what ????

I was always against rape, thats what. Islam sanctifies it and no the OT does not.

 

[gautama]

I am reading some of this convoluted Quaranic bullshit with esoteric names seemingly labelling every thought process from dreaming about boinking one's neighbor's wife, to perhaps an action that is delineated to include such basics as a particular bowel movement.

All this emanating from the pedophile Mohahahahamed, may his name be forgotten as soon as possible, who "married" a six year old Ayesha, and had the moral strength to wait until legally raping her at age 9. I understand that it might have been understandable because Ayesha had great tits and a magnificent ass.

As to the Quaranic BULLSHIT that is inundating the West by some of its spokesmen.....ALL that is covered by "TAQIYAH". Believe it or not, the ACTUAL FACT IS: the Term "TAQIYAH" is an Islamic term for "BULLSHIT" to heap on the infidels to blind them from the true goal of Islam. THE TRUE GOAL OF ISLAM being: to transform the World into the World of Islam by SWORD or BUILLSHIT.

Presently, Islam is PRIMARILY controlled by the Whackjobs called the Wahhabis and the Nutjobs who are the Theological Honchos of Iran. Both of these factions practice IRREFUTABLE ISLAMOFASCIST HORROR on anybody that disagrees with them and/or they can lay their hands on.

Especially Israel which is perhaps 1/10,000 the combined area of these Islamofascist Swine. The Israel area which to some extent has been populated by the human garbage of Islamic countries bordering Israel. I am referring to those Muslim dregs that lived in semi-concentration camps in the Muslim countries bordering Israel and have been deliberately funnelled into Israel as a "poison pill" to cause decades, perhaps a century of turmoil. All that to divert attention from the ABYSMAL RESULTS of tyrannical and despotic rule of the Islamic TYRANTS and Whackjob mullahs.

That just about summarzes SOME of the BULLSHIT that is being spewed about.

BTW, Christianity had, and might have its moments in the future also. It certainly had its BLOODTHIRSTY PAST.

Religion has that aspect of HORROR to it......besides the positive aspects of providing HOPE to those who are desperately in need of it.

I leave the PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION of which is better for Mankind: A world with or without the present religions of Heaven, Hell and Divinity CRAP.....UP TO YOU.

I know this is an impossible dream.

Because the vested interests in the Religions of the World are too entrenched.

But IMO, all this convoluted Religious CRAPPOLA should be replaced with:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

And, if you are not masochistic freaks everything will be honkey-dorey.

 

[Sunni Man]

So what ????

I was always against rape, thats what. Islam sanctifies it and no the OT does not.

Wrong as usual Mr. Fitnuts

The Old Testament talks about Abraham, Jacob, King David, King Soloman, and others having numerous "concubines".

Most were slave women who were forced into being concubines.

 

[Sunni Man]

And gang banging is apparently legal.

I didn't know that?

Please provide evidence

Thank You