Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

[P F Tinmore]

executing actions to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms,

Countries make and trade arms all of the time.

What do you mean illicit?

 

[Hollie]

That is not what the report states.

It looks exactly like the report states.

Gaza could become uninhabitable in less than five years due to ongoing ‘de-development’– UN report​

If you want to talk about it specifically start a thread.

But be prepared to discuss water supply and the condition of aquifers in depth because I've done some research in this.

Then you should know 95% of the water is undrinkable.

"Gaza’s 1.8 million inhabitants rely on coastal aquifers as their main source of freshwater, yet 95 per cent of this water is not safe to drink."​

Maybe tunnel and rocket spending should be re-directed toward clean water?

They can't. Israel will not allow them to import what they need to rebuild their systems.

You need to keep up.

You need to keep up. Islamist terrorism is facilitated by directing UNRWA welfare funds to arms and ammunition for Hamas and other Islamic terrorist franchises.

 

[Coyote]

The entire point of Israel's defense of its border is to defend the border. It's not to control the territory governed by another elected entity.

WHAT?

Then end the blockade! That IS "control of the territory governed by another elected entity"!

Your posts are so contradictory, you are so desperate to defend the actions of Israel you don't really know what you are saying anymore!

There is nothing the slightest bit contradictory about my statements. My statements are so consistent I am repeating myself over and over again.

Declare recognition of Israel.

Stop attacking Israel. No rockets. No suicide attacks. No stabbings. No threatening to rip Israeli hearts out.

Declare an end-of-conflict with Israel with no territorial dispute.

Sign a peace treaty.

Declare independence.


This isn't that hard, you guys.

What does "with no territorial dispute" mean?

 

[Coyote]

I disagree, the INTENT of the blockade was a collective punishment of the Gazan’s for electing Hamas. There was no escalation of violence preceding it and no attempts at talks with the new government. It has gone on for ten years with no inprovement.

How can Gaza declare independence? When the Palestinians sought any sort of U.N. recognition Israel punished those efforts. Israel punishes Palestinians for Unesco move

The intent of the blockade was to prevent a terrorist organization which had just been elected government (!!) and refused peace, recognition or to honour agreements from attacking Israel.

How do you "attempt talks" with a terror organization which has declared these things?

You seem to say "no escalation of violence" demonstrates sufficient good intent I disagree. The cessation of ALL violence is the requisite for peace.

The cessation of ALL violence is the requisite for peace.

That applies to Israel also.

You obviously are oblivious to the fact that it is not Israel with a written Charter calling for the destruction of Arabs-Moslems.

Is it Isrealis who are massing on their border calling to invade Gaza’istan and rip the hearts out of Arabs-Moslems?

It is Israel massing at the border shooting civilians. Are the Palestinians at the border shooting up the Israelis?

You’re not paying attention. A number of the dead Islamics were members of the Islamic terrorist “military wing” of Hamas. It is Israel defending a border from Islamic terrorists.

IDF: At least 10 of the 15 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups

Why do you believe that islamo-rioters with Molotov cocktails and explosives are allowed an entitlement to that behavior?

How cowardly of you to flail your Pom Poms and encourage others to act upon your Jooooooo hatreds while you sit behind a keyboard.

That is debatable at this point. The Israeli Defense Minister made that claim about the murdered journalist - and provided zero substantiation. I'm rather cynical about these claims.

 

[Coyote]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Coyote, et al,

The Joint Egyptian-Israeli blockade started in 2007. That is a year after the Population of Gaza elected HAMAS into power. Two years after the unilateral withdraw in 2005.

View attachment 187928
​

The indiscriminate rocket fire was on the rise in the first three years of the new century; but began a decline, down 100 launches from a high of nearly 300 in 2004 → the year before the unilateral withdraw of 2005. In the two years immediately prior to the tightening of the Israeli Measures to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, their parts, and components and ammunition, owing to the harmful effects of those activities on the security of each State or Region.

Ok...that's a good chart. So rockets increased after Hamas was elected into power. That still does not mean the blockade is NOT collective punishment because it PUNISHES everyone - severely. This in particular impacts the ability of Gazans to access healthcare, including life saving healthcare, adequate food, water and electricity. Most recently, Abbas has joined with Israel in adding pressure to Gaza through withholding aid. Given their economy is in shambles they can not export goods, leave to work, or import goods - most Gazans depend on aid.

Bitter Palestinian rivalry adds to the agony of Gaza’s vulnerable

In Shifa hospital, Gaza, tiny premature babies, some with multiple infections, others with congenital diseases, lie packed together in incubators, struggling for life amid a tangle of tubes as lights flicker. With electricity virtually cut off, their life support is powered by a generator with a variable current.


The health of several of the babies is so poor they should have been transferred out of Gaza to modern intensive care units elsewhere, but permission to leave has been refused.


The decades-long agony of Gaza has moved into a new phase in which the very weakest lives of all are being sacrificed in a political power struggle played out beyond Gaza’s barrier wall.

Nowhere is the new intensified stranglehold more painful to observe than on the wards of Shifa. During the 2014 war, which killed more than 2,300 Palestinians, including about 500 children – leaving 1,000 permanently disabled – the beds were full of the injured. Today the doctors are struggling to save lives not damaged by bombs but by the impact of the blockade.

Kidney dialysis, intensive care and neonatal units are all in crisis. The Palestinian Authority in Ramallah on the West Bank has refused to pay for medicines, which are now critically depleted even for those in most need. Payments due to Israel each time patients are transferred are also being blocked, so that babies in need of critical care as well as cancer patients are refused permits to leave for treatment in the West Bank and Israel. Doctors say 10 cancer patients who have died in the past month could have been saved if they had been transferred.


As emergency cases back up in Gaza’s hospitals, other crises that have built up over the 11 years of siege and conflict are being brought to light. The immediate crisis in cancer care is exacerbated by the steep rise in cancer cases across Gaza, for which medical services were ill-equipped to start with.


According to Dr Khaled Thabet, head of oncology at Shifa, cancer rates in Gaza are rising steeply. He cites 90 cases per 100,000 people in 2016 compared with 65 in 2010. The rates are worryingly high given the unusually young population, with 60% of Gazans under 25. He blames the impact of three consecutive wars on Gaza, which have left poisonous elements in the soil and water, including depleted uranium. Daily use of insecticides by Israel to clear border areas is also blamed. Such is the shortage of clean water there are fears of cholera.​

I disagree, the INTENT of the blockade was a collective punishment of the Gazan’s for electing Hamas.

(COMMENT)

What evidence is there that the Israelis are doing something other than executing actions to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, their parts and components and ammunition, owing to the harmful effects of those activities on the security of each State or Region.

What evidence is there to suggest that Israel is doing something other than strengthening the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those from entering their territory;

(The Imperative to Combat Terrorism in all its forms and Manifestations by all means, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations)

(Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Their Parts and Components and Ammunition, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime)
(The United Nations General Assembly adopted the Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy. The strategy is a unique global instrument to enhance national, regional and international efforts to counter terrorism.) ​

Why are medical supplies in such short supply? Why is food so restricted? Why is clean water restricted? Why is electricity so restricted. None, as far as I know, are part of making arms.

There was no escalation of violence preceding it and no attempts at talks with the new government. It has gone on for ten years with no improvement.

(COMMENT)

As you can see, there was almost a 200% increase in the two years prior to the blockade --- see above (supra).

I agree, the chart was enlightening.

How can Gaza declare independence? When the Palestinians sought any sort of U.N. recognition Israel punished those efforts. Israel punishes Palestinians for Unesco move

(COMMENT)

Gaza is already wrapped-up with the West Bank. They would have to disengage.

It is important to remember that under Customary Law, those that have not already accepted a different citizenship, those that have acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the country of his new nationality are no longer considered a "refugee."

In terms of "Rule 103 - Collective Punishment" - Customary and IHL considers:

• Summary •

However, the prohibition of collective punishments is wider in scope because it does not only apply to criminal sanctions but also to “sanctions and harassment of any sort, administrative, by police action or otherwise”.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

The intent of the blockade was to prevent a terrorist organization which had just been elected government (!!) and refused peace, recognition or to honour agreements from attacking Israel.

How do you "attempt talks" with a terror organization which has declared these things?

You seem to say "no escalation of violence" demonstrates sufficient good intent I disagree. The cessation of ALL violence is the requisite for peace.

The cessation of ALL violence is the requisite for peace.

That applies to Israel also.

You obviously are oblivious to the fact that it is not Israel with a written Charter calling for the destruction of Arabs-Moslems.

Is it Isrealis who are massing on their border calling to invade Gaza’istan and rip the hearts out of Arabs-Moslems?

It is Israel massing at the border shooting civilians. Are the Palestinians at the border shooting up the Israelis?

You’re not paying attention. A number of the dead Islamics were members of the Islamic terrorist “military wing” of Hamas. It is Israel defending a border from Islamic terrorists.

IDF: At least 10 of the 15 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups

Why do you believe that islamo-rioters with Molotov cocktails and explosives are allowed an entitlement to that behavior?

How cowardly of you to flail your Pom Poms and encourage others to act upon your Jooooooo hatreds while you sit behind a keyboard.

That is debatable at this point. The Israeli Defense Minister made that claim about the murdered journalist - and provided zero substantiation. I'm rather cynical about these claims.

Israel has proven more than enough and in detail with videos and photos from Hamas itself, the journalist case is being investigated.
Gazans on the other hand have proven beyond any doubt that the aim of the riot is violence.

The insistence on making this case symbolic of the whole confrontation, is an attempt to dissolve Hamas from any responsibility and water down the extent of violence they initiated at the border.

Again it's either a peaceful festival or a declaration of war - Gazans can't have it both ways, hold ice cream in one hand and throw a granade with the other.

 

[Coyote]

That applies to Israel also.

You obviously are oblivious to the fact that it is not Israel with a written Charter calling for the destruction of Arabs-Moslems.

Is it Isrealis who are massing on their border calling to invade Gaza’istan and rip the hearts out of Arabs-Moslems?

It is Israel massing at the border shooting civilians. Are the Palestinians at the border shooting up the Israelis?

You’re not paying attention. A number of the dead Islamics were members of the Islamic terrorist “military wing” of Hamas. It is Israel defending a border from Islamic terrorists.

IDF: At least 10 of the 15 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups

Why do you believe that islamo-rioters with Molotov cocktails and explosives are allowed an entitlement to that behavior?

How cowardly of you to flail your Pom Poms and encourage others to act upon your Jooooooo hatreds while you sit behind a keyboard.

That is debatable at this point. The Israeli Defense Minister made that claim about the murdered journalist - and provided zero substantiation. I'm rather cynical about these claims.

Israel has proven more than enough and in detail with videos and photos from Hamas itself, the journalist case is being investigated.
Gazans on the other hand have proven beyond any doubt that the aim of the riot is violence.

The insistence on making this case symbolic of the whole confrontation, is an attempt to dissolve Hamas from any responsibility and water down the extent of violence they initiated at the border.

Again it's either a peaceful festival or a declaration of war - Gazans can't have it both ways, hold ice cream in one hand and throw a granade with the other.

I am not absolving Hamas of anything. But journalists are threatened and restricted in many parts of the world. Shooting one, and then possibly LYING about it and smearing his reputation to justify it from as high a level as Defense Minister is crap. It's not just that it's a single case. It's an important one.

 

[rylah]

You obviously are oblivious to the fact that it is not Israel with a written Charter calling for the destruction of Arabs-Moslems.

Is it Isrealis who are massing on their border calling to invade Gaza’istan and rip the hearts out of Arabs-Moslems?

It is Israel massing at the border shooting civilians. Are the Palestinians at the border shooting up the Israelis?

You’re not paying attention. A number of the dead Islamics were members of the Islamic terrorist “military wing” of Hamas. It is Israel defending a border from Islamic terrorists.

IDF: At least 10 of the 15 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups

Why do you believe that islamo-rioters with Molotov cocktails and explosives are allowed an entitlement to that behavior?

How cowardly of you to flail your Pom Poms and encourage others to act upon your Jooooooo hatreds while you sit behind a keyboard.

That is debatable at this point. The Israeli Defense Minister made that claim about the murdered journalist - and provided zero substantiation. I'm rather cynical about these claims.

Israel has proven more than enough and in detail with videos and photos from Hamas itself, the journalist case is being investigated.
Gazans on the other hand have proven beyond any doubt that the aim of the riot is violence.

The insistence on making this case symbolic of the whole confrontation, is an attempt to dissolve Hamas from any responsibility and water down the extent of violence they initiated at the border.

Again it's either a peaceful festival or a declaration of war - Gazans can't have it both ways, hold ice cream in one hand and throw a granade with the other.

I am not absolving Hamas of anything. But journalists are threatened and restricted in many parts of the world. Shooting one, and then possibly LYING about it and smearing his reputation to justify it from as high a level as Defense Minister is crap. It's not just that it's a single case. It's an important one.

Excuse me if it sounds cynical, not my intention - but why is this case so uniquely important in light of what's going on?

You know what's also possible - that Hamas murdered him, and had lots of reasons for, as they began loosing the media war with the Swastikas and shouting "tear their hearts out" .
I haven't seen any proof to the contrary, and You do know that Hamas placed it's own snipers as well do You?

محمود توفيق-غزة on Twitter

There's a video going around Arabic media which claims to show a Gazan shot and a crowd cheering...but the shot sound comes from the crowd. I guess that video will be published soon once it's analyzed.

 

[Coyote]

It is Israel massing at the border shooting civilians. Are the Palestinians at the border shooting up the Israelis?

You’re not paying attention. A number of the dead Islamics were members of the Islamic terrorist “military wing” of Hamas. It is Israel defending a border from Islamic terrorists.

IDF: At least 10 of the 15 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups

Why do you believe that islamo-rioters with Molotov cocktails and explosives are allowed an entitlement to that behavior?

How cowardly of you to flail your Pom Poms and encourage others to act upon your Jooooooo hatreds while you sit behind a keyboard.

That is debatable at this point. The Israeli Defense Minister made that claim about the murdered journalist - and provided zero substantiation. I'm rather cynical about these claims.

Israel has proven more than enough and in detail with videos and photos from Hamas itself, the journalist case is being investigated.
Gazans on the other hand have proven beyond any doubt that the aim of the riot is violence.

The insistence on making this case symbolic of the whole confrontation, is an attempt to dissolve Hamas from any responsibility and water down the extent of violence they initiated at the border.

Again it's either a peaceful festival or a declaration of war - Gazans can't have it both ways, hold ice cream in one hand and throw a granade with the other.

I am not absolving Hamas of anything. But journalists are threatened and restricted in many parts of the world. Shooting one, and then possibly LYING about it and smearing his reputation to justify it from as high a level as Defense Minister is crap. It's not just that it's a single case. It's an important one.

Excuse me if it sounds cynical, not my intention - but why is this case so uniquely important in light of what's going on?

You know what's also possible - that Hamas murdered him, and had lot's of reasons for.
I haven't seen any proof to the contrary, and You do know that Hamas placed it's own snipers as well do You?

محمود توفيق-غزة on Twitter

There's a video going around Arabic media which claims to show a Gazan shot and a crowd cheering...but the shot sound comes from the crowd. I guess that video will be published soon.

Because I value journalists and what they do, and I to see a government actively attempt to smear an innocent person's reputation (if that indeed proves to be the case) - is wrong. I don't hold Hamas to much of any standard - they need to be gone. I would expect more of the Israeli government.

 

[Hollie]

The intent of the blockade was to prevent a terrorist organization which had just been elected government (!!) and refused peace, recognition or to honour agreements from attacking Israel.

How do you "attempt talks" with a terror organization which has declared these things?

You seem to say "no escalation of violence" demonstrates sufficient good intent I disagree. The cessation of ALL violence is the requisite for peace.

The cessation of ALL violence is the requisite for peace.

That applies to Israel also.

You obviously are oblivious to the fact that it is not Israel with a written Charter calling for the destruction of Arabs-Moslems.

Is it Isrealis who are massing on their border calling to invade Gaza’istan and rip the hearts out of Arabs-Moslems?

It is Israel massing at the border shooting civilians. Are the Palestinians at the border shooting up the Israelis?

You’re not paying attention. A number of the dead Islamics were members of the Islamic terrorist “military wing” of Hamas. It is Israel defending a border from Islamic terrorists.

IDF: At least 10 of the 15 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups

Why do you believe that islamo-rioters with Molotov cocktails and explosives are allowed an entitlement to that behavior?

How cowardly of you to flail your Pom Poms and encourage others to act upon your Jooooooo hatreds while you sit behind a keyboard.

That is debatable at this point. The Israeli Defense Minister made that claim about the murdered journalist - and provided zero substantiation. I'm rather cynical about these claims.

Going back to the end of March, Hamas has acknowledged a number of its military wing members were killed at the tire riots.

Hamas admits 5 of its gunmen among 16 Gazans killed in Friday’s border violence

 

[Hollie]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Coyote, et al,

The Joint Egyptian-Israeli blockade started in 2007. That is a year after the Population of Gaza elected HAMAS into power. Two years after the unilateral withdraw in 2005.

View attachment 187928
​

The indiscriminate rocket fire was on the rise in the first three years of the new century; but began a decline, down 100 launches from a high of nearly 300 in 2004 → the year before the unilateral withdraw of 2005. In the two years immediately prior to the tightening of the Israeli Measures to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, their parts, and components and ammunition, owing to the harmful effects of those activities on the security of each State or Region.

Ok...that's a good chart. So rockets increased after Hamas was elected into power. That still does not mean the blockade is NOT collective punishment because it PUNISHES everyone - severely. This in particular impacts the ability of Gazans to access healthcare, including life saving healthcare, adequate food, water and electricity. Most recently, Abbas has joined with Israel in adding pressure to Gaza through withholding aid. Given their economy is in shambles they can not export goods, leave to work, or import goods - most Gazans depend on aid.

Bitter Palestinian rivalry adds to the agony of Gaza’s vulnerable

In Shifa hospital, Gaza, tiny premature babies, some with multiple infections, others with congenital diseases, lie packed together in incubators, struggling for life amid a tangle of tubes as lights flicker. With electricity virtually cut off, their life support is powered by a generator with a variable current.


The health of several of the babies is so poor they should have been transferred out of Gaza to modern intensive care units elsewhere, but permission to leave has been refused.


The decades-long agony of Gaza has moved into a new phase in which the very weakest lives of all are being sacrificed in a political power struggle played out beyond Gaza’s barrier wall.

Nowhere is the new intensified stranglehold more painful to observe than on the wards of Shifa. During the 2014 war, which killed more than 2,300 Palestinians, including about 500 children – leaving 1,000 permanently disabled – the beds were full of the injured. Today the doctors are struggling to save lives not damaged by bombs but by the impact of the blockade.

Kidney dialysis, intensive care and neonatal units are all in crisis. The Palestinian Authority in Ramallah on the West Bank has refused to pay for medicines, which are now critically depleted even for those in most need. Payments due to Israel each time patients are transferred are also being blocked, so that babies in need of critical care as well as cancer patients are refused permits to leave for treatment in the West Bank and Israel. Doctors say 10 cancer patients who have died in the past month could have been saved if they had been transferred.


As emergency cases back up in Gaza’s hospitals, other crises that have built up over the 11 years of siege and conflict are being brought to light. The immediate crisis in cancer care is exacerbated by the steep rise in cancer cases across Gaza, for which medical services were ill-equipped to start with.


According to Dr Khaled Thabet, head of oncology at Shifa, cancer rates in Gaza are rising steeply. He cites 90 cases per 100,000 people in 2016 compared with 65 in 2010. The rates are worryingly high given the unusually young population, with 60% of Gazans under 25. He blames the impact of three consecutive wars on Gaza, which have left poisonous elements in the soil and water, including depleted uranium. Daily use of insecticides by Israel to clear border areas is also blamed. Such is the shortage of clean water there are fears of cholera.​

I disagree, the INTENT of the blockade was a collective punishment of the Gazan’s for electing Hamas.

(COMMENT)

What evidence is there that the Israelis are doing something other than executing actions to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, their parts and components and ammunition, owing to the harmful effects of those activities on the security of each State or Region.

What evidence is there to suggest that Israel is doing something other than strengthening the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those from entering their territory;

(The Imperative to Combat Terrorism in all its forms and Manifestations by all means, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations)

(Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Their Parts and Components and Ammunition, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime)
(The United Nations General Assembly adopted the Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy. The strategy is a unique global instrument to enhance national, regional and international efforts to counter terrorism.) ​

Why are medical supplies in such short supply? Why is food so restricted? Why is clean water restricted? Why is electricity so restricted. None, as far as I know, are part of making arms.

There was no escalation of violence preceding it and no attempts at talks with the new government. It has gone on for ten years with no improvement.

(COMMENT)

As you can see, there was almost a 200% increase in the two years prior to the blockade --- see above (supra).

I agree, the chart was enlightening.

How can Gaza declare independence? When the Palestinians sought any sort of U.N. recognition Israel punished those efforts. Israel punishes Palestinians for Unesco move

(COMMENT)

Gaza is already wrapped-up with the West Bank. They would have to disengage.

It is important to remember that under Customary Law, those that have not already accepted a different citizenship, those that have acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the country of his new nationality are no longer considered a "refugee."

In terms of "Rule 103 - Collective Punishment" - Customary and IHL considers:

• Summary •

However, the prohibition of collective punishments is wider in scope because it does not only apply to criminal sanctions but also to “sanctions and harassment of any sort, administrative, by police action or otherwise”.​

Most Respectfully,
R

The Hamas leadership has priorities which don’t include such things as basic needs. Is anyone surprised that an Islamic Terrorism syndicate is incapable of managing the civil affairs of government?

Forbes Says Hamas Second-Richest Terror Group In World

 

[rylah]

You’re not paying attention. A number of the dead Islamics were members of the Islamic terrorist “military wing” of Hamas. It is Israel defending a border from Islamic terrorists.

IDF: At least 10 of the 15 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups

Why do you believe that islamo-rioters with Molotov cocktails and explosives are allowed an entitlement to that behavior?

How cowardly of you to flail your Pom Poms and encourage others to act upon your Jooooooo hatreds while you sit behind a keyboard.

That is debatable at this point. The Israeli Defense Minister made that claim about the murdered journalist - and provided zero substantiation. I'm rather cynical about these claims.

Israel has proven more than enough and in detail with videos and photos from Hamas itself, the journalist case is being investigated.
Gazans on the other hand have proven beyond any doubt that the aim of the riot is violence.

The insistence on making this case symbolic of the whole confrontation, is an attempt to dissolve Hamas from any responsibility and water down the extent of violence they initiated at the border.

Again it's either a peaceful festival or a declaration of war - Gazans can't have it both ways, hold ice cream in one hand and throw a granade with the other.

I am not absolving Hamas of anything. But journalists are threatened and restricted in many parts of the world. Shooting one, and then possibly LYING about it and smearing his reputation to justify it from as high a level as Defense Minister is crap. It's not just that it's a single case. It's an important one.

Excuse me if it sounds cynical, not my intention - but why is this case so uniquely important in light of what's going on?

You know what's also possible - that Hamas murdered him, and had lot's of reasons for.
I haven't seen any proof to the contrary, and You do know that Hamas placed it's own snipers as well do You?

محمود توفيق-غزة on Twitter

There's a video going around Arabic media which claims to show a Gazan shot and a crowd cheering...but the shot sound comes from the crowd. I guess that video will be published soon.

Because I value journalists and what they do, and I to see a government actively attempt to smear an innocent person's reputation (if that indeed proves to be the case) - is wrong. I don't hold Hamas to much of any standard - they need to be gone. I would expect more of the Israeli government.

I can understand that.

At the same time we have little information. Did You see a video of the incident itself ?

 

[fncceo]

It would have to be free ... no one is going to pay to take it.

Oh you just gotta love a dumbass comedian...

I'm quite sure that your beloved Israel would happily take full ownership. After all, I'm pretty sure that's their 'final solution'... Hmm sounds familiar!

You're ranting Jews are Nazis and I'm the comedian? Thanks, Alanis.

 

[Coyote]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Coyote, et al,

The Joint Egyptian-Israeli blockade started in 2007. That is a year after the Population of Gaza elected HAMAS into power. Two years after the unilateral withdraw in 2005.

View attachment 187928
​

The indiscriminate rocket fire was on the rise in the first three years of the new century; but began a decline, down 100 launches from a high of nearly 300 in 2004 → the year before the unilateral withdraw of 2005. In the two years immediately prior to the tightening of the Israeli Measures to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, their parts, and components and ammunition, owing to the harmful effects of those activities on the security of each State or Region.

Ok...that's a good chart. So rockets increased after Hamas was elected into power. That still does not mean the blockade is NOT collective punishment because it PUNISHES everyone - severely. This in particular impacts the ability of Gazans to access healthcare, including life saving healthcare, adequate food, water and electricity. Most recently, Abbas has joined with Israel in adding pressure to Gaza through withholding aid. Given their economy is in shambles they can not export goods, leave to work, or import goods - most Gazans depend on aid.

Bitter Palestinian rivalry adds to the agony of Gaza’s vulnerable

In Shifa hospital, Gaza, tiny premature babies, some with multiple infections, others with congenital diseases, lie packed together in incubators, struggling for life amid a tangle of tubes as lights flicker. With electricity virtually cut off, their life support is powered by a generator with a variable current.


The health of several of the babies is so poor they should have been transferred out of Gaza to modern intensive care units elsewhere, but permission to leave has been refused.


The decades-long agony of Gaza has moved into a new phase in which the very weakest lives of all are being sacrificed in a political power struggle played out beyond Gaza’s barrier wall.

Nowhere is the new intensified stranglehold more painful to observe than on the wards of Shifa. During the 2014 war, which killed more than 2,300 Palestinians, including about 500 children – leaving 1,000 permanently disabled – the beds were full of the injured. Today the doctors are struggling to save lives not damaged by bombs but by the impact of the blockade.

Kidney dialysis, intensive care and neonatal units are all in crisis. The Palestinian Authority in Ramallah on the West Bank has refused to pay for medicines, which are now critically depleted even for those in most need. Payments due to Israel each time patients are transferred are also being blocked, so that babies in need of critical care as well as cancer patients are refused permits to leave for treatment in the West Bank and Israel. Doctors say 10 cancer patients who have died in the past month could have been saved if they had been transferred.


As emergency cases back up in Gaza’s hospitals, other crises that have built up over the 11 years of siege and conflict are being brought to light. The immediate crisis in cancer care is exacerbated by the steep rise in cancer cases across Gaza, for which medical services were ill-equipped to start with.


According to Dr Khaled Thabet, head of oncology at Shifa, cancer rates in Gaza are rising steeply. He cites 90 cases per 100,000 people in 2016 compared with 65 in 2010. The rates are worryingly high given the unusually young population, with 60% of Gazans under 25. He blames the impact of three consecutive wars on Gaza, which have left poisonous elements in the soil and water, including depleted uranium. Daily use of insecticides by Israel to clear border areas is also blamed. Such is the shortage of clean water there are fears of cholera.​

I disagree, the INTENT of the blockade was a collective punishment of the Gazan’s for electing Hamas.

(COMMENT)

What evidence is there that the Israelis are doing something other than executing actions to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, their parts and components and ammunition, owing to the harmful effects of those activities on the security of each State or Region.

What evidence is there to suggest that Israel is doing something other than strengthening the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those from entering their territory;

(The Imperative to Combat Terrorism in all its forms and Manifestations by all means, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations)

(Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Their Parts and Components and Ammunition, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime)
(The United Nations General Assembly adopted the Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy. The strategy is a unique global instrument to enhance national, regional and international efforts to counter terrorism.) ​

Why are medical supplies in such short supply? Why is food so restricted? Why is clean water restricted? Why is electricity so restricted. None, as far as I know, are part of making arms.

There was no escalation of violence preceding it and no attempts at talks with the new government. It has gone on for ten years with no improvement.

(COMMENT)

As you can see, there was almost a 200% increase in the two years prior to the blockade --- see above (supra).

I agree, the chart was enlightening.

How can Gaza declare independence? When the Palestinians sought any sort of U.N. recognition Israel punished those efforts. Israel punishes Palestinians for Unesco move

(COMMENT)

Gaza is already wrapped-up with the West Bank. They would have to disengage.

It is important to remember that under Customary Law, those that have not already accepted a different citizenship, those that have acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the country of his new nationality are no longer considered a "refugee."

In terms of "Rule 103 - Collective Punishment" - Customary and IHL considers:

• Summary •

However, the prohibition of collective punishments is wider in scope because it does not only apply to criminal sanctions but also to “sanctions and harassment of any sort, administrative, by police action or otherwise”.​

Most Respectfully,
R

The Hamas leadership has priorities which don’t include such things as basic needs. Is anyone surprised that an Islamic Terrorism syndicate is incapable of managing the civil affairs of government?

Forbes Says Hamas Second-Richest Terror Group In World

I agree, that is evident in their behavior.

 

[Coyote]

That is debatable at this point. The Israeli Defense Minister made that claim about the murdered journalist - and provided zero substantiation. I'm rather cynical about these claims.

Israel has proven more than enough and in detail with videos and photos from Hamas itself, the journalist case is being investigated.
Gazans on the other hand have proven beyond any doubt that the aim of the riot is violence.

The insistence on making this case symbolic of the whole confrontation, is an attempt to dissolve Hamas from any responsibility and water down the extent of violence they initiated at the border.

Again it's either a peaceful festival or a declaration of war - Gazans can't have it both ways, hold ice cream in one hand and throw a granade with the other.

I am not absolving Hamas of anything. But journalists are threatened and restricted in many parts of the world. Shooting one, and then possibly LYING about it and smearing his reputation to justify it from as high a level as Defense Minister is crap. It's not just that it's a single case. It's an important one.

Excuse me if it sounds cynical, not my intention - but why is this case so uniquely important in light of what's going on?

You know what's also possible - that Hamas murdered him, and had lot's of reasons for.
I haven't seen any proof to the contrary, and You do know that Hamas placed it's own snipers as well do You?

محمود توفيق-غزة on Twitter

There's a video going around Arabic media which claims to show a Gazan shot and a crowd cheering...but the shot sound comes from the crowd. I guess that video will be published soon.

Because I value journalists and what they do, and I to see a government actively attempt to smear an innocent person's reputation (if that indeed proves to be the case) - is wrong. I don't hold Hamas to much of any standard - they need to be gone. I would expect more of the Israeli government.

I can understand that.

At the same time we have little information. Did You see a video of the incident itself ?

No, is there one?

 

[rylah]

Israel has proven more than enough and in detail with videos and photos from Hamas itself, the journalist case is being investigated.
Gazans on the other hand have proven beyond any doubt that the aim of the riot is violence.

The insistence on making this case symbolic of the whole confrontation, is an attempt to dissolve Hamas from any responsibility and water down the extent of violence they initiated at the border.

Again it's either a peaceful festival or a declaration of war - Gazans can't have it both ways, hold ice cream in one hand and throw a granade with the other.

I am not absolving Hamas of anything. But journalists are threatened and restricted in many parts of the world. Shooting one, and then possibly LYING about it and smearing his reputation to justify it from as high a level as Defense Minister is crap. It's not just that it's a single case. It's an important one.

Excuse me if it sounds cynical, not my intention - but why is this case so uniquely important in light of what's going on?

You know what's also possible - that Hamas murdered him, and had lot's of reasons for.
I haven't seen any proof to the contrary, and You do know that Hamas placed it's own snipers as well do You?

محمود توفيق-غزة on Twitter

There's a video going around Arabic media which claims to show a Gazan shot and a crowd cheering...but the shot sound comes from the crowd. I guess that video will be published soon.

Because I value journalists and what they do, and I to see a government actively attempt to smear an innocent person's reputation (if that indeed proves to be the case) - is wrong. I don't hold Hamas to much of any standard - they need to be gone. I would expect more of the Israeli government.

I can understand that.

At the same time we have little information. Did You see a video of the incident itself ?

No, is there one?

I haven't seen yet, only the one after.

Is this what You'd call a smear campaign:

September 9, 2017 The photographer (journalist) who was shot on Friday, posted a video for his agency agency "Maala photographers"/"Ain Media" on Facebook, a video of operating a drone and writes: "Our planes are in the sky and our soldiers are on the ground ... ready for any scenario."

Which planes and soldiers do You figure he related to?

 

[Coyote]

I am not absolving Hamas of anything. But journalists are threatened and restricted in many parts of the world. Shooting one, and then possibly LYING about it and smearing his reputation to justify it from as high a level as Defense Minister is crap. It's not just that it's a single case. It's an important one.

Excuse me if it sounds cynical, not my intention - but why is this case so uniquely important in light of what's going on?

You know what's also possible - that Hamas murdered him, and had lot's of reasons for.
I haven't seen any proof to the contrary, and You do know that Hamas placed it's own snipers as well do You?

محمود توفيق-غزة on Twitter

There's a video going around Arabic media which claims to show a Gazan shot and a crowd cheering...but the shot sound comes from the crowd. I guess that video will be published soon.

Because I value journalists and what they do, and I to see a government actively attempt to smear an innocent person's reputation (if that indeed proves to be the case) - is wrong. I don't hold Hamas to much of any standard - they need to be gone. I would expect more of the Israeli government.

I can understand that.

At the same time we have little information. Did You see a video of the incident itself ?

No, is there one?

I haven't seen yet, only the one after.

Is this what You'd call a smear campaign:

September 9, 2017 The photographer (journalist) who was shot on Friday, posted a video for his agency agency "Maala photographers" on Facebook, a video of operating a drone and writes,
"Our planes are in the sky and our soldiers are on the ground ... ready for any scenario."

Which planes and soldiers do You figure he related to?

Many photojournalists use drones now. That was September. Again - where is the evidence that he was using a drone that day and that he is affiliated with Hamas?

 

[rylah]

Excuse me if it sounds cynical, not my intention - but why is this case so uniquely important in light of what's going on?

You know what's also possible - that Hamas murdered him, and had lot's of reasons for.
I haven't seen any proof to the contrary, and You do know that Hamas placed it's own snipers as well do You?

محمود توفيق-غزة on Twitter

There's a video going around Arabic media which claims to show a Gazan shot and a crowd cheering...but the shot sound comes from the crowd. I guess that video will be published soon.

Because I value journalists and what they do, and I to see a government actively attempt to smear an innocent person's reputation (if that indeed proves to be the case) - is wrong. I don't hold Hamas to much of any standard - they need to be gone. I would expect more of the Israeli government.

I can understand that.

At the same time we have little information. Did You see a video of the incident itself ?

No, is there one?

I haven't seen yet, only the one after.

Is this what You'd call a smear campaign:

September 9, 2017 The photographer (journalist) who was shot on Friday, posted a video for his agency agency "Maala photographers" on Facebook, a video of operating a drone and writes,
"Our planes are in the sky and our soldiers are on the ground ... ready for any scenario."

Which planes and soldiers do You figure he related to?

Many photojournalists use drones now. That was September. Again - where is the evidence that he was using a drone that day and that he is affiliated with Hamas?

Many journalist call them "planes" as a part of a military ready for action?

 

[Coyote]

Because I value journalists and what they do, and I to see a government actively attempt to smear an innocent person's reputation (if that indeed proves to be the case) - is wrong. I don't hold Hamas to much of any standard - they need to be gone. I would expect more of the Israeli government.

I can understand that.

At the same time we have little information. Did You see a video of the incident itself ?

No, is there one?

I haven't seen yet, only the one after.

Is this what You'd call a smear campaign:

September 9, 2017 The photographer (journalist) who was shot on Friday, posted a video for his agency agency "Maala photographers" on Facebook, a video of operating a drone and writes,
"Our planes are in the sky and our soldiers are on the ground ... ready for any scenario."

Which planes and soldiers do You figure he related to?

Many photojournalists use drones now. That was September. Again - where is the evidence that he was using a drone that day and that he is affiliated with Hamas?

Many journalist call them "planes" as a part of a military ready to action?

I can see them joking around and yes - calling it a plane. I think you need more substantial evidence then a tweet.

 

[Coyote]

A paid member of Hamas? Hamas denies it. Murtaja's family and coworkers deny it. From the below I highly doubt it.

Contradicting Israel, journalists' federation says slain Palestinian photographer was arrested and beaten by Hamas
A report by the International Federation of Journalists, published by AFP, said Yaser Murtaja was detained by Hamas three years ago after he documented the demolition of a house near the border. His captors demanded to see what he had documented, and when he refused he was forced into a vehicle, the report said. He was then beaten until he required hospitalization, according to the report, which was based on an interview with the photographer.

Lieberman claimed that Murtaja had been operating a drone above Israeli troops when he was shot, but the military had yet to release evidence of this.